Show: HARDBALL Date: June 26, 2017 Guest: Randy Bryce, Sabrina Siddiqui, Paul Singer, Montel Williams, Chris Murphy, Adam Entous
CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: Trump changes his story again.
Let`s play HARDBALL.
Good evening. I`m Chris Matthews back in Washington.
Donald Trump has changed his story when it comes to the Russian investigation again. After dismissing the intelligence, calling it a Democratic hoax and a witch hunt, the president is now knocking his predecessor, Barack Obama -- catch this -- for not doing enough to respond to the Russian intervention.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just heard today for the first time that Obama knew about Russia a long time before the election and he did nothing about it. But nobody wants to talk about that. The CIA gave him information on Russia a long time before they even -- you know, before the election, and I hardly see it. It`s an amazing thing to me. You know, in other words, the question is, if he had the information, why didn`t he do something about it? He should have done something about it. But you don`t read that. It`s quite sad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, that`s Trump on Fox. President Trump seems to be referring to a "Washington Post" article this weekend that said the Obama White House took a cautious approach to Russia meddling prior to the election.
Well, President Trump tweeted this morning "The reason that President Trump (sic) did nothing about Russia after being notified by the CIA of meddling is that he expected Clinton would win and did not want to rock the boat. He didn`t choke, he colluded or obstructed, and it did the Dems and crooked Hillary no good."
Trump added, "The real story is that President Obama did nothing after being informed in August about Russian meddling. With four months of looking at Russia under a magnifying glass, they have kept tapes of it, tapes of T people colluding. There is no collusion and no obstruction. I should be given apology."
This is Trump`s world. For months, Donald Trump`s rhetoric has been very different. During the campaign, he repeatedly quoted from the information leaked to Wikileaks by the Russians and he praised the leaks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This just came out -- Wikileaks! I love Wikileaks!
Oh, we love Wikileaks. Boy, they have really -- Wikileaks! They have revealed a lot!
Boy, I love reading those Wikileaks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Anyway, after being elected, President Trump dismissed the seriousness of the hack. Let`s watch him there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think the computers have complicated lives very greatly. The whole, you know, age of computer has made it where nobody knows exactly what`s going on.
Well, I just want them to be sure because it`s a pretty serious charge, and I want them to be sure. And if you look at the weapons of mass destruction, that was a disaster and they were wrong. And so I want them to be sure. I think it`s unfair if they don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, Sean Spicer was asked about the collusion charge in an off-camera briefing today, where Trump accused Obama of collusion with the Russians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Is there an element of hypocrisy here, Sean, because this was President Trump on the campaign trail. "Russia, if you`re listening, I hope you`re able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press."
How can you accuse President Obama of obstructing when he was egging Russia on?
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He was joking at the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: He was what? Guilty (ph) (INAUDIBLE)
There`s also some breaking news this evening. Former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page -- this story`s Kato Kaelin, as far as I see it -- confirmed to NBC News he`s been interviewed at length by the FBI. So he`s into it. I think he likes this stuff.
Anyway, "The Washington Post" was first to report the news -- over a series of five meetings in March, totaling over 10 hours of questioning, Page repeatedly denied wrongdoing.
I`m joined by Adam Entous, one of the authors of "The Washington Post" article this weekend on President Obama`s response to Russia, "USA Today`s" Heidi Przybyla, who`s also an MSNBC political analyst, and MSNBC`s national security analyst, Malcolm Nance.
Look, I just want to go to the basic nonsense of Trump here today. I`ve been away for a few days, and I need to get my head back into this. Trump is now saying, Heidi -- now saying that there was, in fact, Russian intervention and that Obama let it go. In other words, after weeks and weeks saying there was no Russian intervention, he`s -- Oh, yes, there was Russian intervention in our election, but it was Obama`s fault.
HEIDI PRZYBYLA, "USA TODAY," MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.
MATTHEWS: How do you do a 180 like that in one day because you read a "Washington Post" piece? We`ll get to your piece in a minute.
PRZYBYLA: Perhaps if people aren`t paying attention. Let`s think this through. So first he says there`s no collusion for months and months. Now he says there was collusion, and it was Obama who was colluding in order to get him elected...
(LAUGHTER)
PRZYBYLA: ... so that he could undo Obama`s legacy? So it`s just nonsensical. But Chris, I think there hasn`t been due attention, as well, to the fact that this is a day of vindication for that 400 pound person who`s been...
MATTHEWS: I know. It`s now -- it was now somehow -- let me -- you`re laughing Malcolm. I heard you through the intercom here. And I have to tell you, the absurdity of this fellow (ph) because he`s been saying there shouldn`t be an investigation because there was no intervention. He`s now acknowledging there was an intervention. I guess Obama should be investigated.
I swear Trump can say anything any moment and it`s irrelevant to the very next moment. I mean, a few seconds later, a nanosecond later what, he says later doesn`t matter a second later. His comments don`t make any coherence. They never make any coherence since he`s been president.
And by the way, we`re going to get to the part in "The New York Times" yesterday which authenticates for the first 40 days of his presidency, he told a lie every single day at, like, Noah`s flood of lies the first 40 -- and then he -- he pretty much made every day after that, too. What a record.
Anyway, let`s talk about this. Is Trump now saying that there was Russian intervention in our campaign and that somebody has to explain their role in that? Isn`t he now basically 90 percent of the way towards where the investigators are headed, something bad was done by the Russians, we got to find out who helped them?
MALCOLM NANCE, MSNBC NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well...
MATTHEWS: He`s with the investigators now, all of a sudden, seems to me.
NANCE: Sure. I think he`s going to try to steer the conversation in that direction. We`ve seen certainly on other channels over the last 72 hours a completely different story, that collusion is legal. We`ve actually heard people say that and argue this.
I think Donald Trump -- and I know people who know Donald Trump personally and very well -- cannot think past 10 seconds. He can`t get past whatever is before his face at that moment. He talks as if there`s no such thing as television or video recordings.
Let`s go over some things that we know are an absolute fact. He was briefed about this in his top secret security briefings before the election last year. He was briefed about this after he won the election. He was briefed about this in January, when President Obama`s national security team brought together the evidence and the FBI and CIA told him what blackmailable information they had on him.
He has called this a hoax from the very beginning. To suddenly do a 180, this is certainly solely for his political audience, and he doesn`t care what the rest of the world thinks, whether it appears that he`s once again telling a fantastical lie.
MATTHEWS: I know. Adam, let`s start with your piece for the weekend. Let`s talk about sins of omission, if you will, by Obama. Go for it.
ADAM ENTOUS, "WASHINGTON POST": Right. So I mean, just to make clear, I`m not sure that Trump was actually briefed before the election on the details of what was being collected because the FBI was not briefing President Obama on what they were doing as far as this investigation of possible coordination between Trump and the campaign. He definitely was briefed on this in January when that report came out.
MATTHEWS: Well, what do you make of the charge the last several hours by Trump that Obama let it go?
ENTOUS: Well, I mean, the argument could be made that Obama could have done more. One of the reasons...
MATTHEWS: You said he wasn`t briefed on it.
ENTOUS: He wasn`t briefed on the possibility of collusion, but he was briefed on the Russian intervention...
MATTHEWS: On he Russian (INAUDIBLE)
ENTOUS: ... and the role of Putin in that intervention. The issue is, why didn`t he? Why didn`t he do more before the election?
The answer was, number one, he was worried if he did, Putin would do something even worse, try to tamper on election day with voting machines, for example, and number two, that Trump would politicize it, which clearly, you know, Trump might have politicized it and the Republicans...
MATTHEWS: You mean by saying the Russians were trying to help Trump, by the very act of challenging that, it may look like Obama was jumping in unfairly.
ENTOUS: Correct. That way, it would have looked potentially like Obama was trying to help Hillary win the election. Obama wanted to avoid that, so they decided to backload the sanctions. That would come in December after the election. That way, you avoided the risk of looking like you`re politicizing this.
MATTHEWS: Well, what -- what -- just to try to keep coherence here, if Trump has any claim to knocking Obama for sins of omission, for not moving quickly on what he had discovered about Russian intervention in our campaign or interference in our campaign, what has he done since January 20th?
ENTOUS: I`m not aware of anything.
MATTHEWS: That`s the weirdness! Hypocrisy suggests human morality (ph). You don`t get much of that from Trump. How does he knock Obama for sins of omission when he`s done zero to sanction the Russians for what they did in the campaign?
PRZYBYLA: I would argue he`s actually done negative in that he has sent a message...
MATTHEWS: He`s fluffed them.
PRZYBYLA: ... to Russia...
MATTHEWS: He`s been nice to them.
PRZYBYLA: ... in terms of firing Comey. He`s going to be meeting with Putin next week. It`s been six months, and you`re right, nothing`s been done. But there is a sanctions bill that moved, bipartisan bill, in the Senate. It`s caught up in the House, and some of the reporting suggests that it is White House officials who are trying to water it down. So as he prepares to meet with Putin, we`ve actually done negative.
MATTHEWS: Well, recent testimony by former FBI director James Comey and Attorney General Jeff Sessions paint a picture of a Trump administration`s less than focused on responding to the threat from Russia. In fact, there seemed to be little interest in Russia`s election meddling by this new administration since January 20th. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARTIN HEINRICH (D), NEW MEXICO: Did the president, in any of those interactions that you`ve shared with us today, ask you what you should be doing or what our government should be doing or the intelligence community to protect America against Russian interference in our election system?
JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: I don`t recall a conversation like that.
HEINRICH: Never.
COMEY: No.
JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I know nothing but what I`ve read in the paper. I`ve never received any detailed briefing on how a hacking occurred or how information was alleged to have influenced the campaign.
SEN. ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: You received no briefing on the Russian active measures in connection with the 2016 election?
SESSIONS: No. I don`t believe I ever did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Sometimes Sessions reminds me of Sergeant Schultz in "Hogan`s Heroes," I don`t know nothin`.
Anyway, NBC reported this weekend that according to officials and experts, the Trump administration has taken little meaningful action to prevent Russian hacking, leaking or disruption in the next presidential election or congressional election in 2018 despite warnings from intelligence officials that it will happen again.
Back to you, Adam. And -- I mean back to you, Malcolm. And my question is, you`re the expert on this. In the community you`re in, is there any sign that this administration is moving aggressively to make sure we don`t have anymore of this hell hitting us next year?
NANCE: No. And it appears that the only agency that is going forward with any initiative is DHS, Department of Homeland security. The CIA, NSA, the other intelligence agencies are maintaining their standard, you know, high level of cyber-security awareness, but it`s not them who have to -- you have to worry about.
It`s the Republican Party who really needs to worry about this because this could easily be a double-edged sword. They could come back and stab Donald Trump in the back using the exact same cyber-warfare systems.
And to put their heads in the sand when the nation was attacked -- and let me tell you one other thing, Chris. You cannot fault President Obama for not starting an active cyber-war between the United States and Russia. He used the measures which were commensurate with his office. He called Putin on the red phone. We did not start shutting down each other`s national infrastructure.
But President Trump has to understand it is imperative that he take action. And if he doesn`t, well, that tells us quite a bit about his views with Russia.
MATTHEWS: Adam, this charge, this high school Harry number of "So`s your old man" -- Trump now accuses Obama of collusion. What? He helped Trump win? I mean, what kind of collusion would Obama be involved with here? He just threw that word at him like "So`s your old man" in high school. (INAUDIBLE) so`s your old man. What does it mean when a president of the United States says collusion by his predecessor?
ENTOUS: Well, he...
MATTHEWS: Nothing, does it? (INAUDIBLE) mean anything?
ENTOUS: And earlier this year, he accused Obama of targeting him by having him surveilled, right, but plating...
MATTHEWS: Wiretapped.
ENTOUS: Wiretapped.
MATTHEWS: Which he ended up saying was metaphorical for what BS? I don`t know what...
ENTOUS: And there were the suggestions of tapes. So you know...
MATTHEWS: Oh, the latest thing he says is, There`s no tapes, so I`m innocent. But no, he was the one talking about tapes. He was the one who claimed he had tapes, and then turned out he didn`t have the tapes, which we all pretty well knew. And then he says, But they don`t have any tapes against me.
He uses language in this demoniac (ph) way to confuse the unsubtle mind what he`s up to. (INAUDIBLE) who`s got tapes, who doesn`t have tapes? How do you follow Trump mentally? It`s impossible!
ENTOUS: It is -- it is a challenge to try to...
MATTHEWS: Anyway...
ENTOUS: ... figure out what he means.
MATTHEWS: Well, what about -- I want to ask you about -- what collusion could Obama have been capable of or involved with? What collusion?
ENTOUS: I`m not aware of...
MATTHEWS: Hillary lost! He was for Hillary!
ENTOUS: Yes, I...
MATTHEWS: Trump won! He wasn`t for Trump!
ENTOUS: At this point...
MATTHEWS: What tapes is he talking about?
ENTOUS: I`m not sure.
MATTHEWS: See? I mean -- I mean, this is a crumb trail that leads to nowhere.
PRZYBYLA: I do think we need to talk -- have a discussion about collusion, though, because there were a lot of contacts going on throughout the course of the height of the hacking campaign, and so we as reporters...
MATTHEWS: Contacts by whom with whom?
PRZYBYLA: By Trump officials.
MATTHEWS: Yes, we know.
PRZYBYLA: Right. Right. But we need to kind of set a bar and understand as reporters, as well, what would constitute collusion because that`s not something that`s been...
MATTHEWS: (INAUDIBLE) meeting.
PRZYBYLA: ... defined yet.
MATTHEWS: (INAUDIBLE) a meeting at the Mayflower, at the RNC, in the Trump Tower, you know, all kinds of places, in the Oval Office, all kinds of meetings.
Anyway, thank you Adam Entous. And thank you, Heidi Przybyla. And think you, Malcolm Nance, for bringing your fire and knowledge to this show.
NANCE: Thank you.
MATTHEWS: Coming up -- you know what I`m talking about.
Anyway, the Republican health care plan in the Senate would increase the number of Americans without health care altogether. By the way, the magic number tonight, 22 million. Remember, the House number was 23 million? Well, they`re slightly improving it, I guess, because by 2026, only -- I`m being sarcastic -- only 22 million less people will be covered with health insurance under the Republican plan being pushed through the United States Senate, according to the Congressional Budget Office. And that`s not much better than the House plan, as I said. Trump called the one he called "mean" -- again, high school language.
And now tonight, another Republican, Susan Collins of Maine, says she`ll definitely vote no. Guess what? She tweeted her no.
Plus, the would-be challenger to House Speaker Paul Ryan is coming here. He`s going to run against him out in Wisconsin -- interesting guy. Interesting guy. A real working guy. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDY BRYCE (D), WISCONSIN HOUSE CANDIDATE: I think it`s time. Let`s trade places. Paul Ryan, you can come work the iron, and I`ll go to D.C. We can do so much better together as a community, and our future depends on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: He`s got a Michael Moore quality to this guy. Tonight, we`re going to get ready. Randy Bryce is coming here, an iron worker from Wisconsin who wants to trade places with Paul Ryan.
And "The New York Times," as I said. compiled the definitive list of all the lies President Trump has told since taking office, and the numbers are staggering. Trump said something untrue in public office every one of the first 40 days as president, one for each day.
Finally, let me finish tonight with "Trump Watch." He won`t like this one.
This is HARDBALL, where the action is.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
The Supreme Court announced today that it will hear arguments over the Trump administration`s travel ban when it`s back in session next term. It also ruled that the administration can partially enforce the ban in the meantime as long as it doesn`t block people from entering the country who have a close relationship with someone in the United States or those who want to attend school or accept a job here.
In a statement today, President Trump said, "Today`s unanimous Supreme Court decision is a clear victory for our national security. It allow the travel suspension for the six terror-prone countries and refugee suspension to become largely effective. As president, I cannot allow people into our country who want to do us harm. I want people who can love the United States and all of its citizens and who will be hard working and productive."
I`m joined right now by NBC News justice correspondent Pete Williams. Do the analysis. What`s good for Trump? What`s bad for Trump?
PETE WILLIAMS, NBC CORRESPONDENT: So what`s good for Trump is he gets one thing he really wanted, which is for the Supreme Court to review those two lower court decisions what went against the travel restrictions that said the president couldn`t enforce them. The court agreed that he`ll (sic) hear that case in the fall. That`s one thing he wanted.
And it gave him part of the second thing he wanted, which is authority to go ahead and begin enforcing the executive order now while the court waits to hear the case over the summer months.
There`s some disagreement here, Chris, though, on how much of a concession that is to the president. As you mentioned, anyone who wants to come to the U.S. and to try to get a visa who has a connection here, a family member, is going to school here, wants to teach here, comes here to accept a job, the travel restriction cannot apply to them. The ban remains in place on enforcement. They can still get a visa and come in.
Refugees who have a relative in the U.S. or have a connection to an entity, the court said, in the U.S. which presumably means the churches and the refugee groups that sponsor them -- if they have an existing relationship with them now, they, too, can come in.
So how much of this will actually end up being enforced? How much of it will remain on hold? That`s something that`s going to take another couple of days to work out. But it`s certainly a victory for the president that after the string of defeats, he finally gets at least some relief.
MATTHEWS: Thank you so much, Pete Williams. Great reporting.
And up next, the Republican health care bill is very much in jeopardy, especially given today`s news that it would reduce coverage -- catch this - - for 22 million Americans.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: It`s hard for me to see the bill passing this week.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t have enough information. I don`t have the feedback from constituencies who will not have had enough time to review the Senate bill. We should not be voting on this next week.
JOHN DICKERSON, HOST, "FACE THE NATION": Will you support this bill, Senator?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R), LOUISIANA: Right now, I am undecided.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, welcome back to HARDBALL.
It was a rough weekend, of course, for Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, tough for him, who is facing a daunting task of rounding up enough votes -- that would be 50 -- to pass the Republican repeal of the Affordable Care Act.
In more bad news, in more bad news, the Congressional Budget Office today estimates the Senate bill would strip health insurance from 22 million Americans. That number will be all over the newspapers tomorrow -- 22 million will lose insurance.
Ahead of this week`s vote, the majority leader is already facing fierce headwinds from his caucus, the one that spans the ideological divide from conservatives to moderate -- sort of moderate.
Late today, Republican Senator from Maine Susan Collins, as you just saw said: "I want to work with my GOP and Democratic colleagues to fix the flaws in ACA. CBO analysis shows Senate bill won`t do it. I will vote no on motion to proceed."
But Republicans are determined, apparently, to schedule a vote before the July 4 recess. That means this week. Texas Senator John Cornyn, who is charge of the vote counting for the Republicans, tweeted: "I am closing the door. We need to do it this week, before double-digit premium increases are announced for next year," in other words, get it off the table.
Anyway, tonight, Senate Democrats are on the Senate floor protesting -- there they are -- the Republican health bill. There`s Senator Harris of California -- or is that Cantwell? It`s Cantwell from Washington State.
This morning, President Trump previewed what he might do if the thing fails. It`s something we have been forecasting he`s going to say for a while, blame the Democrats.
He tweeted: "Republican senators are working very hard to get there with no help from the Democrats. Not easy. Perhaps just let OCare crash and burn."
It`s not just Democrats that are in Trump`s crosshairs. America First Policies, an outside group that backs President Trump`s agenda, is targeting the Republicans who have come out against the Senate health care bill. The message to all Republicans, get in line or else.
The Republican repeal remains one of the most unpopular pieces of legislation, however, in decades.
In a scathing opinion piece, Montel Williams has a dire message for President Trump.
He writes: "In his victory speech, Trump promised to lift up the forgotten men and women of this country. Instead, under Trumpcare, they will be crushed, left to die."
For more, I`m joined by the author of that piece, former talk show host Montel Williams. There he is, of course, Montel Williams. And, Robert Costa, national political reporter for "The Washington Post," an MSNBC political analyst.
Robert Costa, you first on the track touting here. I don`t see in the world, with Collins already having walked and four or five other Republican senators already basically saying they`re off, that you get 50 out of 52. I don`t see why -- I don`t know what Chuck Schumer is doing, except sandbagging the Republicans, by saying it`s a 50-50 jump ball.
It`s not a jump ball. This bill is dead. Am I right or wrong?
ROBERT COSTA, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: It`s nearly dead, based on my reporting, but I`m not ruling it out from passage at this point, Chris, because of a couple of things I`m hearing on Capitol Hill.
One, there`s still a chance some significant changes could be made to the Medicaid portion of this legislation in terms of providing poorer states with far less population than some states with more money, more guarantees of funding. And some conservatives could get the amendments they want on this bill.
If that happens, maybe Leader McConnell could thread the needle and get it through. But you`re right. At this point, it`s a pretty dismal outlook.
MATTHEWS: Why would a Republican senator, left -- they don`t have a left - - right and center-right, why would any Republican senator want to have their name on health care for the country? They don`t believe in it, essentially. They don`t believe in social welfare like this kind.
Why do they want their name on it, when they have to go back to the conservatives and say, I supported something like Obamacare? Why would they want to do that? I don`t get it.
COSTA: The politics are complicated for Republicans, because, privately, some Republicans tell me, especially the staffers, that they wouldn`t mind if the bill fell apart. The moderates could say they stopped this from happening, they protected the coverage.
Conservatives could say this wasn`t conservative enough.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
COSTA: But they got on this train a long time ago. Republicans pledged to their base they would try to uproot this law. And that`s what they`re trying to do, even if it`s unpopular. MATTHEWS: Montel, tell me why about you care about this, your personal reasons. And maybe they`re obvious to you, but not to everyone. Explain.
MONTEL WILLIAMS, FORMER TALK SHOW HOST: Chris, most people out there know I have M.S. I have been suffering with M.S. now for over 20 years.
I had a daughter two years ago who went through two rounds of a battle with cancer. And were it not for the Affordable Care Act, it would have bankrupted her and us because we would have had to pay for this out of pocket because she wasn`t insured.
So, the bottom line is that isn`t even an -- is no form of health care bill. This is nothing more than a cheap short-term talking point. And they know that. The Republicans know that. In addition to that, and it`s nothing more than a tax break for the rich.
Let`s talk about the short-term. They know this doesn`t go into full effect until 2025, so they can kick this can down the road and say, look, we passed a bill that helps some people, but don`t have to worry about the fact that it will fall apart in 2025.
And it`s going to fall apart way faster than that, Chris. We are not telling the American public the truth. The truth is, right now, if everybody at home were to Google, just Google chronic illness in America, you will see that 125 million Americans right now suffer from one chronic illness, and at least 80 percent of them suffer from two. That`s close to 80 million people.
This 20 million thing is a joke, because if states are not allowed to cover you for preexisting conditions, they can drop 80 million people, my friend. And, wait, you know, sickness is an equal-opportunity offender.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Yes, but let me ask you why you think the Republicans think they represent their states. It could be...
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Because 31 percent...
MATTHEWS: Is it fact that most Republicans, overwhelmingly, Republican voters have some kind of health insurance? They just do. They have that advantage. They`re not the disadvantaged people as a party. Is that true?
WILLIAMS: I don`t believe that`s true anymore. It used to be.
That`s why the reason why, right now, you see only 31 percent of people in this country support this bill and over 51 percent are against this. And let`s talk about this again. Equal opportunity is sickness, my friend. When you talk about Republicans...
MATTHEWS: But you`re not explaining why Republican senators are against doing anything really. Why are they voting -- let me go back to Robert on this.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: They can go home and have a free lunch.
MATTHEWS: Well, look, they have to get reelected in big states like Pennsylvania, Ohio. These are real states, not little mini states with one or two electoral votes. They`re big states with a lot of different kinds of people, with different kinds of economic conditions in them.
Why would a person like Pat Toomey vote for it, or Portman? Why would they vote their suicide politically?
WILLIAMS: Because they have kicked it down the road.
MATTHEWS: They must be representing somebody.
WILLIAMS: They have kicked it down the road.
MATTHEWS: Robert?
Well, Robert -- I want to go to Robert for a minute.
Robert Costa, report this.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTA: There is a belief inside of the Senate Republican Cloakroom that this thing could be patched together, that if you`re Pat Toomey, and you get what you want with making sure the Medicaid expansion doesn`t expand as much as it does under the ACA, if you`re Senator Portman, you get the opioid coverage guarantees you want, if you`re Senator Collins or Senator Murkowski, you get what you want in terms of abortion coverage, so it`s not hard-line conservative and you also get what you want on Medicaid.
There`s a belief that, because Trump`s not guiding this process from the White House, it`s McConnell, McConnell at the fore, they can cut a deal with him to try to make this get over the line.
MATTHEWS: And do you think that might be happening?
COSTA: I think McConnell is -- Leader McConnell is a transactional politician.
The president recognizes that, and he`s let McConnell take control of this process, because he knows, whatever happens out of the Senate, that`s going to have to be forced upon the House if this has any chance of approval.
WILLIAMS: And, Chris, the Democrats...
MATTHEWS: Montel, last thought to you. I have a feeling that Trump doesn`t mind this thing dying. I think he doesn`t mind going to plan B, which is the health care bill we have now. Obamacare will have -- whatever weaknesses it has, he will work on those weaknesses over the next three years.
He will watch the system deteriorate, and weaken, perhaps die in many places through lack of insurers. And then he will say, it was the Democrats who did this, just blame the hell out of the Democrats.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: He can get away with it.
And the reason why, Chris, if you remember, when Obama came up with his health care plan, the Affordable Care Act, it was immediately called Obamacare.
This is being McConnell-care, Ryan-care. Trump doesn`t have to have any responsibility. If it fails, it`s not on him. It`s not Trumpcare. And this is the failure of the Democrats, because the Democrats right now should be all over just calling this nothing but Trumpcare, Trumpcare. But they won`t do it.
MATTHEWS: I think that`s an oxymoron, by the way, Trumpcare.
Anyway, just thinking about it.
Anyway, thank you. My thoughts -- great. Good luck with everything.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Thank you, my friend.
MATTHEWS: And, Robert Costa, thank you for reporting.
Last week, President Trump (sic) accused Republicans of passing a tax cut, not a health care bill. President Trump was asked about it on FOX News. Let`s watch the exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: How frustrating is it to have former President Obama there out there leading the resistance?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think -- I don`t think he`s leading it. He actually just put out a small statement. I don`t see that leading it, but other people are leading.
QUESTION: Some people might say it`s -- the level of anger is unprecedented.
But it`s also unprecedented for a former president to come out the way President Obama has. He came out on Facebook recently. You may have seen it. He said your bill, Mr. President, it`s not a health care bill, it`s a massive transfer of wealth, it`s going to harm Americans, it`s mean.
What do you say to the former president when he comes out and does that?
TRUMP: Well, he actually used my term, mean. That was my term, because I want to see -- I want to see -- and I speak from the heart. That`s what I want to see.
I want to see a bill with heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: "I want to see a bill with heart."
I`m joined right now by Senator Chris Murphy, Democrat.
What do you think when you hear that? He goes, I want to a bill with heart, and the House bill, which I supported, is a mean bill. He jumps around every day 180 from the day before.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT: He didn`t just support it. Right? He convened a giant party in the Rose Garden to celebrate the fact that they had just passed a bill that stripped health care from 24 million people.
MATTHEWS: I remember.
MURPHY: You know, I think he read something on TV that morning. He saw the fact that the news was turning against him, and he decided to try to get out in front of it.
But the Senate bill, right, is no improvement -- 23 million people lose insurance. So, if the House bill was mean, this bill is mean. And I think that`s why Republicans are running away from this thing.
MATTHEWS: Yes. It seems to me one of those easy issues.
The Democratic Party created Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare. The Republican Party opposed all of them. And now they still do. And yet they`re coming up now with an attempt to have a Republican version.
I just -- I don`t know what that means, a Republican social welfare program. It doesn`t seem to be -- whoever imagined a Republican with a social welfare program? Maybe the pill thing that W. came up with, but a serious program to help the health care of millions, tens of millions of people, and the Republicans came up with it? They don`t believe in it.
MURPHY: And what`s amazing is that...
MATTHEWS: They don`t believe in this stuff.
MURPHY: Well, and, listen, their proposal has made Obamacare more popular than ever, right?
Today, more people want this program to remain, because they actually now are at risk of losing all of the benefits, all the protections that they have gotten. So, it`s pretty amazing. This is dog that caught the car, right?
MATTHEWS: You have won. I think your side has won the principled argument, the principle, which is the American people expect their government to play a role in providing them with health care, not just access, but health care.
MURPHY: Yes.
MATTHEWS: And now the Republicans have to -- every time they bring up a bill, have to wait for the CBO. And the CBO number comes out and says, OK, 23 million on the House side won`t get it, 22 million in the Senate.
MURPHY: Right.
MATTHEWS: And they lose the argument.
MURPHY: And to protect Americans against the abuses of insurance companies, right?
Everybody agrees now that you shouldn`t let an insurance company charge you more if you`re sick, which is what the Republican bill allows you to do.
MATTHEWS: Let me talk to you about the dirt ball option here, I call it.
Suppose the Senate bill -- and I think it will fail, the Republican bill -- and the Democrats don`t have an alternative right now. What happens if over the next three years, Trump, assuming he has one turn -- maybe he will have two. But he only has one now.
During the course of that time, Obamacare deteriorates. There are more insurance companies pulling out of the exchange, more people not getting covered. And so at the end of that period, people begin to blame the Democrats. What happens to you guys?
MURPHY: Well, first, he`s doing that already, right?
MATTHEWS: He`s trying to talk it down.
MURPHY: Yes. So insurers are pulling out of markets, and they`re blaming the uncertainty that Trump has created. So, he`s trying to pull it down as we speak.
MATTHEWS: What stops him?
MURPHY: Well, the only thing -- two things stop him.
One is that the public is not going to buy the fact that it`s Democrats` fault. The Republicans control the White House, control the House, control the Senate.
MATTHEWS: Yes, but they failed at every attempt to get rid of Obamacare. Now you have Obamacare and they will say Obamacare failed. It has his name on it.
MURPHY: Yes, but people aren`t dumb. They know that Republicans are in charge of everything. They know that the president actually controls HHS, which runs these exchanges.
The second thing is that perhaps Republicans and Democrats, if this thing falls apart in the next few days, actually come together. Maybe Susan Collins is successful in reaching out to people like me, and we pass a bill that stabilizes the markets and maybe gives Republicans some of the flexibility that they want. That is not impossible.
MATTHEWS: Just remember, Republicans spent 40 years running against the war on poverty successfully. So, you have got to be careful here.
Thank you, Senator.
MURPHY: Thank you.
MATTHEWS: Thanks for coming in, Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut.
Up next: He`s the man being a political ad that has got everyone talking, but does he have what it takes to unseat -- this is the guy running against the speaker of the House. There he is, a real ironworker who is challenging Paul Ryan.
Anyway, this is HARDBALL, where the action is.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
Randy Bryce is a union ironworker and Army veteran, all for real, by the way, and now a 2018 Democratic candidate for Congress out in Wisconsin.
His opponent, you`re won`t believe it, Republican Speaker of the House Paul Ryan. Bryce announced his run last Monday. And already his first campaign ad has gone viral. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDY BRYCE (D), WISCONSIN CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I have spent my entire life in Southeastern Wisconsin. I can see what people need.
I could do so much more, and I will do so much more taking my voice, taking our voice and what we need to Washington, D.C. I decided to run for office because not everybody`s seated at the table, and it`s time to make a bigger table. I`m the best person to represent this district because I`m a working person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, Bryce wants to trade places, of course, with Speaker Ryan to represent Wisconsin`s 1st Congressional District.
It`s in the southwestern -- actually, southeastern corner of the state. It`s a seat Ryan has held since winning it in 1998. The district runs from Lake Michigan in the east, just south of Milwaukee, west of Paul Ryan`s hometown of Janesville. And it hasn`t elected a Democrat out there since `93.
I`m joined right now by himself, the Democratic -- for Congress, Randy Bryce.
Great ad.
BRYCE: Thank you.
MATTHEWS: You know, you strike me, Mr. Bryce, as the kind of guy or woman who voted for Trump, a working guy who`s a little ticked off at the Democratic Party for being a little too culturally elitist.
And yet you`re sticking with the party and you`re representing it, you hope to, against Trump`s guy, Paul Ryan. Explain.
BRYCE: Well, thanks for having me on. Happy Monday, Chris.
MATTHEWS: Thank you.
BRYCE: The thing is, is that Speaker Ryan isn`t -- he might be speaker of the House, but he`s not speaking on behalf of working people`s houses.
He hasn`t been present in the district for over 600 days. And you have this horrible -- it`s not even really a health care bill, but he`s trying to take away health care.
The people in the 1st Congressional District are working harder, and we`re having less to see for it.
MATTHEWS: He`s kind of an Ayn Rand ideologue. You know what that thing is, Ayn Rand?
I read one of her books. And one them, I really liked, which was "Fountainhead," because it was a hell of a yarn. But she basically believes every man for herself. That`s her argument.
What do you make of that argument? Because apparently Paul Ryan believes in total, utter personal self-reliance. Don`t look out for anybody to look out for you.
BRYCE: Well, he -- at one point, I understand that he made his staff read Ayn Rand.
MATTHEWS: "Atlas Shrugged" probably.
BRYCE: Correct. Correct.
And he was talking about makers and takers. Well, you know, I`ve spent the last 20 years of my life and all my neighbors have spent the last 20 years of their lives contributing to our society, contributing to the first congressional district, building things, you know, and not only is he taking stuff away from us but he won`t face us.
If we want to find out what`s going on in Washington, we had to ask Representative Mark Pocan to come in. We had two meetings that were packed, people just dying to know what`s going on, and we have no idea. As I said before --
MATTHEWS: What do you mean, you said 600 days you haven`t seen him? What is that -- that`s a strong indictment. Where`s Ryan been for 600 days? That`s two years?
BRYCE: He hasn`t had any public town halls within that time. It`s been over 600 days. But he`s had over 50 events. He had some events where he`ll charge $10,000 to have a picture taken with him. That`s not representing people --
MATTHEWS: How do you run, by the way -- I`m going to ask you a technical question. Lawyers are uniquely eligible to run for office because they can be of counsel to a law firm to run for office. Very few people can do that. How do you as a guy getting paid for a wage get enough free time to run for U.S. Congress? How do you do it?
BRYCE: Well, it`s difficult. I`ve spent every possible minute that I can campaigning. Luckily, I belong to the Iron Workers Union and they pay a very good wage. There`s times in the wintertime, depending on -- it`s been called sometimes the best part-time job that there is. It`s dependent on weather. We don`t often get a 40-hour week.
MATTHEWS: Oh, I see.
BRYCE: If it`s a good week, we call it a ringer.
MATTHEWS: Good for you. Maybe there`s --
BRYCE: Thanks too belonging to a union.
MATTHEWS: Maybe there`s a good side to not working 40 because you get to run for Congress.
Hey, Randy, it`s great to have you on. I`m very impressed by your ad campaign. I hope you get the door to door stuff figure. The door to door stuff two down. Good luck with that.
BRYCE: Thank you. Thank you very much.
MATTHEWS: Anyway, the Democrats challenging House Speaker Paul Ryan, you just saw him, Randy Bryce.
Up next, a street that does not look good in print. This is so powerful. "The New York Times" cataloged the staggering number of lies, they call it, President Trump has told since taking the oath of office. As I say, It`s like Noah. One a day, a flood of lies to the first 40 days and one every day and then many, many pretty much almost every day since. It`s an astounding, horrible record.
You`re watching HARDBALL.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
Opinion writers at "The New York Times" have cataloged, that`s a great word for it, over 100 demonstrably false claims, lies, if you will, President Trump has made since becoming president. The results of that exercise show the regularity of President Trump`s inaccuracies, exaggerations and outright falsehoods. In fact, most of them are, noting that it would be the height of naivete to imagine he is merely making honest mistakes, he is lying. That`s "New York Times" talking.
They find that President Trump is, quote, said everything untrue in public every day for the first 40 days of his presidency and since then he`s said something untrue on at least 74 of 113 days. This is like the Phillies losing record here.
Here is a look at just a few of the examples. Jesus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Here`s a picture of the crowd. Now the audience was the biggest ever, but this crowd was massive. Look how far back it goes.
When you look at the people that are registered, dead, illegal, in two states and some cases maybe three states, we have a lot to look into.
I guess it was the biggest Electoral College win since Ronald Reagan.
The murder rate in our country is the highest it`s been in 47 years, right? Did you know that?
China will be allowed to build hundreds of additional coal plants. So, we can`t build the plants but they can, according to this agreement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, the piece in "The New York Times" yesterday concludes that the president, quote, is trying to create an atmosphere in which reality is irrelevant. I am so into that.
I`m joined right now by the HARDBALL roundtable tonight. Sabrina Siddiqui, political reporter at "The Guardian", Jason Johnson, politics editor at "The Root" and MSNBC political analyst, and Paul Singer, Washington correspondent for "USA Today".
Paul, you`re first. I think they`ve got something there. I think the supporters of Trump, somewhere between 35 and 40 percent who stick with him, hell and high water, don`t give a damn, or a rat`s ass, what everyone would say about whether he says untrue or not. They don`t care.
PAUL SINGER, USA TODAY: They didn`t vote for the guy with the right facts, they voted for the right mood.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
SINGER: And he got the mood right of the country. And if you got the mood right, who cares if the facts are over all --
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: He shoots facts on Fifth Avenue to use his old reference. He shoots facts dead.
Sabrina?
SABRINA SIDDIQUI, THE GUARDIAN: Look, the greatest challenge with this is people becoming numb to the president not telling the truth. This is the highest office in the land and the fact that they lack credibility, that not just the president but whoever gets up behind the podium, the press secretary, you can`t believe, you know, every other thing that might come out of their mouth. That`s deeply problematic, not just for the public`s trust in the office but also for how our allies view us around the world.
MATTHEWS: How do you write a straight news story? When you have to quote a president every day like, that`s called straight reporting, Jason. And it`s called objective. I`m not sure it is objective.
If you sit down and write down everything Trump says as if it means something factually, aren`t you being duped? I know it`s very hard to say this because you`re supposed to write as a paper of record. You got to write down what he says, but it doesn`t relate to reality.
JASON JOHNSON, THE ROOT: Right. That`s one of the reasons why they`re trying to get rid of recording equipment at the daily press briefings. They don`t like the actual record being there of the number of times that either Trump or the people who represent him end up lying. It makes it incredibly difficult because journalism, in fact, covering all politics is based on the minimum idea that the president may only lie about one or two things. He lies about everything, which makes it almost impossible.
MATTHEWS: This tape today, he said today that Obama, his predecessor`s responsible for somehow colluding with the Russians when they interfered in our election. Split second before, he said there was no Russian interference in our election. He does a 180. It doesn`t seem to offend his peeps.
SINGER: But if you track Trump at all over the years, this has always been his style. He just talks. He just says what he thinks at the moment. He doesn`t care if it`s true.
And, by the way, what`s his brand? How rich is he? How is he doing in business? He just makes those up on the --
MATTHEWS: How do you report on this guy, Sabrina? How do you write down what he says when you know it doesn`t mean anything?
SIDDIQUI: Well, the responsibility of the media is still to hold people in power accountable. And to not just let these misstatements slide. I think that also, you had to remember that his success is contingent upon creating this alternate reality. You know, Kellyanne Conway infamously said alternative facts. But the media still has to report the facts and present the truth to the American public, and to hope that there are more people who are watching and taking seriously the office he now holds and just the campaign where a lot of people are disenchanted by both of their choices.
MATTHEWS: Does anybody offended by the fact he spent eight years calling Obama an illegal immigrant?
JOHNSON: Well, there`s lots of people offended by it.
Here`s the thing. That`s where the lying starts. Like, if you could lie about where a president is from and stick with it all the way --
MATTHEWS: With no evidence. I`ve got investigators down in Hawaii coming up with very interesting stuff -- B.S.!
JOHNSON: And then he pretends he feels bad about it. He`s like, if he would just show me, if he would just show -- I`m worried about Obama.
MATTHEWS: We`re sticking back with this unflappable president.
Anyway, up next, these people tell me something I don`t know -- which actually will be true what they tell me, which is revolting.
(LAUGHTER)
MATTHEWS: Anyway, thank you.
To HARDBALL, where the action is.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MATTHEWS: Well, it`s been two years since the United States Supreme Court ruling requiring states to recognize marriage equality and today, support for same-sex marriage, you won`t be surprised by that, is at all-time high. According to a new Pew Poll, Americans are now nearly 2-1 in favor of allowing gays and lesbians to marry legally, that`s a dramatic shift, believe it or not, from 2010, to seven years ago, when a plurality of Americans, most, opposed same-sex marriage. We are evolving in our thinking.
And we`ll be right back.
(COMMERICAL BREAK)
MATTHEWS: We`re back with the HARDBALL roundtable.
Jason, tell me something I don`t know.
JOHNSON: We know that Philando Castile`s family settled with the city for $3 million after his wrongful death suit. What we don`t know and they aren`t talking about is, that is going to cost over $3 million spread throughout the entire state. Police brutality is not a human rights issue, it`s costing taxpayers thousands of dollars.
MATTHEWS: Sabrina?
SIDDIQUI: Refugee admissions to the U.S. are already nearly half of what they were under Trump now and compared with Obama, 25,000 in final months of Obama`s presidency, just 13,000 refugees admitted in the previous three months under Trump. That`s according to new statistics by the DHS.
MATTHEWS: Is that policy? That`s policy.
SIDDIQUI: That`s policy. That`s extreme vetting.
SINGER: Not only is gay marriage more popular, people are opposed to the notion of denying services to people just because they`re gay. The Supreme Court is taking up a court case, but a survey has shown even amongst faith groups, most people believe you should still have to serve gay marriage couples.
MATTHEWS: Well said. Thank you. Things are changing for the better.
Jason, thank you, Sabrina and Paul Singer.
When we return let me finish with Trump Watch. Not going to be popular watch for him tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MATTHEWS: Trump Watch. Monday, June 26th, 2017.
If Washington is a swamp, and I get the criticism, then Donald Trump`s the swamp fox. Let me take that as -- you can take that as a compliment if he wants to, let his critics take it as criticism of him. Swamp fox.
The fact is, he has shown himself able to sneak through day after day here in this capital city without being caught. He says one thing, one day. Another thing off the direct opposite the next. And people continue to write down what he says as if it contains meaning of some sort, as if it was meant to contain meaning.
It doesn`t. As "The New York Times" documented yesterday, since he took office as president, Donald Trump told an untruth every single one of his first 40 days as president. This deluge on untrue statements should have driven all of us into our boats like Noah -- waiting for the high sea level to drain from the city. That`s the fact we haven`t been able to handle yet, what do you do with a president whom basic human truth telling doesn`t actually click?
That`s HARDBALL for now. Thanks for being with us.
"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.
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