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Hardball with Chris Matthews, Transcript 9/7/2016

Guests: Kellyanne Conway, Gen. Michael Flynn, Jack Reed, Loree Sutton, Richard Haass, Montel Williams

Show: HARDBALL Date: September 7, 2016 Guest: Kellyanne Conway, Gen. Michael Flynn, Jack Reed, Loree Sutton, Richard Haass, Montel Williams

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: Master and Commander.

Let`s play HARDBALL.

Welcome to a night of political combat on an historic warship. For the first time in the final two months of the campaign, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton will both take seats on the same spot to face the most central question of this campaign, who should serve as the next U.S. commander-in-chief?

I`m Chris Matthews right now on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier Intrepid, today the site of Sea, Air and Space Museum up in New York.

An historic warship which saw in the battles in Okinawa and Leyte Gulf plays host tonight to a joint appearance of the two major candidates, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

Well, the set-up is as follows. The two candidates will be questioned before a live audience of U.S. service members on national security, military affairs and veterans issues. Hillary Clinton will go first. Donald Trump won the coin toss, choosing to go second and being able to counterpunch what his opponent has said. The moderator tonight is NBC`s Matt Lauer.

Well, tonight`s first forum of the fall campaign comes as a new on-line poll by NBC News finds that Trump leads Clinton by 19 percentage points among active and former members of the U.S. military, 55 percent to 36 percent. That`s among military veterans and currently serving officers and men and women, of course.

In his speech today in Philadelphia, Trump proposed a massive build-up of the U.S. military while at the same time calling Hillary Clinton "trigger happy."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Unlike my opponent, my foreign policy will emphasize diplomacy, not destruction. Sometimes, it seemed like there wasn`t a country in the Middle East that Hillary Clinton didn`t want to invade, intervene in or topple. She`s trigger happy and very unstable. Whether we like it or not, that`s what`s going on.

She talks about her experience, but Hillary Clinton`s only foreign policy experience ended up in absolute failure. Everywhere she got involved, things got worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: While noting that Trump`s charges appeared to mimic the same attacks on Clinton, the ones he`s -- that leveled on Trump, Clinton`s communications director responded today saying, "Trump has only one way of responding to legitimate criticism of his own vulnerabilities. I know you are, but what am I?"

Well, so what will the evening tell us tonight about who is better prepared to be commander-in-chief of our country? Joining me right now is NBC`s Chuck Todd, moderator of "Meet the Press." Andrea Mitchell is chief foreign affairs correspondent for NBC News, and Eugene Robinson`s an MSNBC political analyst and columnist with "The Washington Post."

Let me start with Chuck and work our way across here. It seems to me that today, Trump is up to something which I think he started his campaign with, by challenging the Iraq war, challenging our involvement in Libya, challenging our attempt to knock off Assad in Syria, saying, I`m tired of all this nation building, all this regime change. Cut it out.

Is that going to work as an attack on Hillary tonight?

CHUCK TODD, MODERATOR, "MEET THE PRESS": Look, I think this is her biggest challenge. Their whole campaign, they`re trying to -- the new team has been trying to simplify the message for Trump, change versus more of the same, and apply that -- apply that prism to everything.

And in this case, in national security, he` saying he`s changed and she`s - - if you didn`t like the Iraq war, Bush and Obama, the Middle East, it`s all the same. She`s part of that same establishment that you haven`t been happy with this whole time.

So I think that`s her chief challenge. He`s got a different challenge. Her chief challenge tonight is beating back this notion that she is just part of...

MATTHEWS: OK, let`s go...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Let`s go one time. What is Trump up to tonight? It`s to accuse Hillary of the way things are, accuse her of being more hawkish than she`d like to maybe be, more of a neocon, if you will? What -- is that how you see it, what he`s up to?

ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. But also to question her judgment on the e-mails, on, you know, the other aspects of national security...

MATTHEWS: Yes.

MITCHELL: ... to bring up those other issues and say that she`s the one, just as he`s been mimicking her attacks, so that she`s the one...

MATTHEWS: Do you think bringing up e-mails on an aircraft carrier makes any sense?

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: I don`t buy -- I don`t think that is going to happen tonight.

MATTHEWS: It just sounds a little small.

EUGENE ROBINSON, "WASHINGTON POST," MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: (INAUDIBLE) he may do it, but (INAUDIBLE) going to work out here.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: This is about heroism and courage under fire and winning the big wars and American history.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBINSON: What could work here...

TODD: He brought it up today in his previous speech at the Union League in Philadelphia. He went after her hard.

ROBINSON: Well, I think that`s a mistake on his part. What could work is an attack on...

MATTHEWS: At the (INAUDIBLE) Union League, where we won the Civil War?

(LAUGHTER)

TODD: They`re still fighting it.

ROBINSON: I mean, an attack on Libya policy, for example.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

ROBINSON: Now, if he can mount that sort of sophisticated attack, I`m not sure, to tell you the truth. And he has another problem. He wants to portray himself as more dovish and more restrained. It`s at the same time that he is proposing 20,000 or 30,000 ground troops for...

TODD: I know.

MATTHEWS: Well, look at this. Look at this...

ROBINSON: ... Iraq and Syria.

MATTHEWS: Look at this now. Today`s poll that we put out also found that Secretary Clinton has a slight advantage over Trump when it comes to the use of nuclear weapons, obviously, a very dangerous question. 34 percent of current and former members of the United States military say they trust Clinton, 33 percent say they trust Trump. This is like nothing. This is nothing. It`s a dead heat for who`s going to cause...

(CROSSTALK)

MITCHELL: And don`t forget...

TODD: This is a Republican-leaning -- this is actually more of a negative number for Trump...

ROBINSON: It is.

TODD: ... but if you see the overall number among these people, Trump led by 19 points. So there is a group of voters who are picking Trump over Clinton who are, like...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Is this not a question of dove versus hawk?

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... nervousness.

TODD: No, this is the temperament issue, which is Trump -- this is where I think Trump -- Trump has an easier task tonight than Clinton. Trump has the low bar of, Can he do the job? Now, I don`t know if he can meet it. He`s struggled to meet it with many voters up to this point.

But he has very basic -- he has a very basic problem, the idea that he`s up to the job with many voters. So that`s his -- she`s got a more complicated challenge in that she`s got to -- she -- everybody knows she knows -- she`s got the resume for the job. The question is, Does she have a new idea on how to fix the Middle East and what America`s role is in it?

MITCHELL: What she is talking about -- what she was talking about in her previous speech yesterday was that he`s too reckless and that he doesn`t know anything. When she said, I will not put ground troops on the ground in Syria, not on my watch, then when he talked about having a free space for ISIS in Syria, she said, Look at the map, Donald.

She is so disparaging of him. That`s what you`re going to hear.

TODD: I`ll tell you...

MITCHELL: She has one big disadvantage, though. She goes first. He can come second.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Well, Secretary Clinton yesterday ratcheted up her criticism of Donald Trump on nuclear weapons. Let`s watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He`s even talked about using nuclear weapons. He`s very loose in his talk about nukes. He says he doesn`t care if other countries get them, doesn`t know why they haven`t been used already. After all his talk, the only thing that is clear is he has no clue about what he`s talking about!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Gene, you know, one thing I think they overstepped with this super-PAC backing her. It said -- basically, they`re quoting Trump in one regard, in one occasion, saying, yes, I sort of like war in certain ways. And then they show -- that includes nuclear war. And that was a totally different occasion. I know they spliced it together, an old political cheap trick.

I`m surprised -- we`ll talk about with it Kellyanne tonight and the general, General Flynn. I`m amazed that the Trump campaign hasn`t rapped (ph) back at that and said, That`s totally a cheap shot.

ROBINSON: Well, they`ll probably...

MATTHEWS: Because it was spliced together.

ROBINSON: They`ll probably get around to that, I guess...

MATTHEWS: I don`t know why it`s taking so long.

ROBINSON: ... calling it a cheap shot. But look, there are legitimate questions about Trump`s temperament, and the president is in charge of the nuclear weapons. I mean, this is -- this is...

MATTHEWS: But why say something he didn`t say?

ROBINSON: No, look, I get you. It`s the kind of distortion that we usually call out in politics.

You know, there`s one danger that Trump has in going last. And generally speaking, it`s an advantage, certainly. But if he makes a big blunder, if there`s something he really doesn`t know -- and we know that he doesn`t know a lot of this stuff...

MATTHEWS: Yes.

ROBINSON: ... if he gets asked a question and he completely, you know, mixes up Shia and Sunni or doesn`t know the difference or something like that, that`s what people will remember.

MATTHEWS: OK, let`s talk about the usual -- you know, we all -- I think -- we`re all familiar with the cold war, right? It was about who`s the strongest, who`s the toughest. I get -- it`s almost like Billy Crystal on "Saturday Night Live," who`s got more macho? Who`s more macho?

Tonight, it doesn`t seem to be that because at the same time, they`re both trying to say, Don`t worry. I`m the restraining force. I`m not going to be the one to jump in and start all these mission building -- nation building, regime change. Enough with all that stuff.

But at the same time, they want to be seen as stronger, but also as more restrained, and they also want to make the other side look not stronger but (INAUDIBLE) other side more dangerous.

MITCHELL: But...

MATTHEWS: How do they -- how do they fine tune this thing?

MITCHELL: Well, what he did today in this speech was to talk about a military budget that was out of sight. We haven`t seen anything like that since Ronald Reagan. He kept quoting the Heritage, you know, Foundation...

MATTHEWS: Well, where`s he get the money?

MITCHELL: Well, he never explained where he gets the money. And they both want to get rid of the sequester that is hampering the military, but not saying where to take it -- which part of defense you take it out of. But he`s talking about a military build-up that would be extraordinary, without any...

TODD: And by the way...

(CROSSTALK)

MITCHELL: No pricetags.

TODD: This Trump speech today was totally different than everything he said during the primaries!

MITCHELL: Exactly!

TODD: I mean, look, it is -- one thing you can say is this new team has put some discipline on him in ways that I don`t think...

MATTHEWS: Yes.

TODD: ... anybody thought was possible. He`s -- you saw -- he`s -- he looked like a tennis match, but he`s getting a little more comfortable, reading faster off a teleprompter.

But he didn`t own that speech, and because there are so many ways that he`s contradicted some of the things that he said in it -- you know, this is why tonight, number one, he`s got to view it as a very important opportunity.

ROBINSON: Yes.

TODD: But he`s not going to have a teleprompter up there tonight.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

TODD: And -- but there are a lot of people that are skeptical if he is up to the job. So there are a lot of love viewers at home that are going to be grading him on a curve. That`s an advantage to him if he does it right. But by the way, this speech today -- none of it was his! You just said...

MATTHEWS: OK, let`s...

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: ... Heritage Foundation...

MATTHEWS: Let`s give everybody a scorecard. Is this a battle, of who`s going to be the strongest commander-in-chief, the smarter commander-in- chief, the what? What is it a battle -- do they agree on even what the battle`s about?

TODD: No. I mean, I don`t think either one of them outlined that correctly. I think Hillary Clinton will think a successful night is his temperament became the issue.

MITCHELL: The most calm.

TODD: And I think...

MATTHEWS: Keep calm and (INAUDIBLE)

TODD: That`s right. Trump will believe this is a good night if everybody says, Oh, how about that, Donald Trump seemed like he was -- can do the job, and he really -- he really did -- you know, that`s the scorecard for me tonight.

MATTHEWS: What is it? Who do you trust?

MITCHELL: It`s who you trust, who has the temperament. And I don`t think she has to prove her toughness. She`s answered the 3:00 o`clock phone call question. I think she`s got to prove...

MATTHEWS: In that room -- you mean in the room when they killed Osama bin Laden.

MITCHELL: Yes. But you know, the advertisement from eight years ago. She`s proved her commander-in-chief bona fides in terms of being tough, as a gender issue. That`s no longer on the table.

Now she`s got to prove that she`s got the judgment and that she is not willy-nilly getting into regime change, pulling (ph) Mubarak out, getting into Libya...

ROBINSON: I would -- I would say that she has less to gain and less to lose than Trump does tonight. Trump -- you know, Trump...

(CROSSTALK)

ROBINSON: ... could gain a lot. He could lose a lot. It makes the night more of a referendum on Trump. That sort of schematic has been good for Hillary Clinton.

MATTHEWS: Yes, and the guy...

ROBINSON: (INAUDIBLE) referendum on Trump, it`s generally been...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: And the dangerous thing about the guy, or the person in this case, who`s behind, clearly behind in the polling -- they`re the ones that take the Hail Mary shots. They`re the ones that take the wild moves to catch up.

And the question is tonight, will he accept the fact he can catch up a little tonight, but be careful. Anyway, I think that`s the question tonight, how careful will Donald Trump be tonight? Chuck Todd says he`s being careful. We`ll see if he can carry it through the night -- Chuck Todd, of course, Andrea Mitchell, of course, Eugene Robinson, of course. Everybody`s of course.

Coming up...

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: ... we`re going to hear from both the Trump and the Clinton campaigns on the big night tonight. We`re going to get the pre-game from the people fighting (INAUDIBLE) their seconds, their surrogates. They`re all coming here.

When we come back, Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway and his top military adviser, General Michael Flynn, will be sitting right here with me with a preview of what they want their guy to do tonight. And maybe he`s ready to do it.

This is HARDBALL, live at the Intrepid aircraft carrier in New York City.

We`ll be right back

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTHEWS: The city is alabaster tonight. But we`re now 45 minutes before the start of the NBC News commander-in-chief forum, and we`ve got some interesting new polling on the presidential race. For that, we check the HARDBALL "Scoreboard.

First to Florida, where a new PPP poll shows Hillary Clinton with a 1-point lead over Donald Trump in a two-way matchup. It`s Clinton 47, Trump 46.

And look at this from Arizona. A new poll from "The Arizona Republic" newspaper shows Clinton leading Trump out there by a point. That`s in Arizona! It`s Clinton 35, Trump 34, in a state that hasn`t voted for a Democrat for president since 1996.

And we`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: In a Trump administration, our actions in the Middle East will be tempered by realism. The current strategy of toppling regimes with no plan for what to do the day after only produces power vacuums that are filled simply by terrorists. Unlike my opponent, my foreign policy will emphasize diplomacy, not destruction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL, from the flight deck of the Intrepid aircraft carrier ahead of tonight`s NBC News commander-in-chief forum right here on this aircraft carrier.

That was Donald Trump today laying out his vision of war on terror and contrasting it with his opponent, Hillary Clinton, of course. Moments ago, Trump himself arrived here at the Intrepid for tonight`s forum. There`s a picture of him coming here.

Joining me now is Donald Trump`s campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, and also retired general Michael Flynn. He`s the former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency and now an adviser to Donald Trump. Thank you so much for joining me (INAUDIBLE) a big night here.

If you -- when I first heard Donald Trump running for president on the issue of foreign policy, I heard a very clear condemnation of this pattern in which we`ve gone into countries like Iraq, we`ve toppled their government, gotten rid of their military, driven the military officer corps into ISIS. And then we went into Gadhafi land. We knocked off Gadhafi, chased him into a sewer pipe, but had no idea what to do next or what was coming next. Then we started going for Syria, and we sort of slowed down at that point.

Kellyanne, is your candidate against that pattern?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Yes, he is. And he makes very clear that Hillary Clinton owns that pattern. A lot of this happened on her watch, Libya, Syria, Russian reset was a failure, obviously in Benghazi. But I think even more importantly, that Hillary Clinton`s tenure as secretary of state is back in the news, whether it is the pay-for-play, the concierge at the State Department, letting people give to the Clinton Global Initiative, otherwise known as the Foundation, foreign donations.

But also really, I think, what`s being scrutinized now, Chris, is she says, I`m experienced. President Obama said she`s qualified. What does that really mean, though? If this is what experience and qualification means, then I think many Americans are preferring his "peace through strength." You know, the new NBC poll shows that he`s winning military and veterans` households...

MATTHEWS: I know.

CONWAY: ... by 20 points. There`s a reason for that.

MATTHEWS: Most people, General, care about their kids having to fight wars.

GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN, U.S. ARMY (RET.), TRUMP ADVISER: Absolutely.

MATTHEWS: And we`re going to spend a lot of time tonight and over the week talking about people coming home with limbs missing, with all kinds of mental and horrible emotional problems...

(CROSSTALK)

FLYNN: I`ve had -- I`ve had a -- I have a son -- one of my sons has deployed three times.

MATTHEWS: Well, you know all about it.

FLYNN: Yes.

MATTHEWS: And they don`t want us fighting wars because the courage and the discipline of our -- they will fight the war we tell them to fight.

FLYNN: They will fight.

MATTHEWS: So we better damn well pick the right fights.

FLYNN: Exactly. And we have to decide, too. I mean, one, we have to stop being in these perpetual wars. They are costing -- a report just came out, I think, in the last 24 hours that showed this -- this conflict has cost the United States of America just over $6 trillion, Chris. So we have to get ourselves out of this.

We have to decide if we are going to go to war, we have to have very clear objectives for how we`re going to, you know, deal with the -- with the day after. We have done a great job...

MATTHEWS: Yes.

FLYNN: ... getting rid of these leaders. Gadhafi is probably the most dramatic. And to me, we end up with nothing but a big mess.

MATTHEWS: Well, what have we learned -- What have we learned that Donald Trump can put to use?

FLYNN: Well, I think we learn to be smarter about the decisions that we`re going to make when we -- when we decide to go into these conflicts. And I do think that when we talk about -- I mean, Donald Trump talked about today, particularly about defeating ISIS, and -- and looking for the right kind of advice coming in from the Department of Defense, the general officer corps...

MATTHEWS: Yes.

FLYNN: ... as such -- I mean, I -- those are the kinds of things -- that`s the smart decision making that we need, unlike what we have experienced, frankly, over the last couple of administrations.

MATTHEWS: OK. Let`s talk politics for a second. Now, this is politics.

The pro-Clinton super PAC group called Priorities USA put out a new ad this week attacking Trump for his statements on war and on nuclear weapons. Let`s watch this ad. Kellyanne will critique.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I`m really good at war. I love war in a certain way, including with nukes, yes, including with nukes.

I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, that ad is clearly misleading, if you know where those tapes came from.

Trump`s mention there of nukes in that second part of that statement had nothing to do with the statement before it. It was from a completely different event. And he was answering at that point, in that second area, a question about Japan wanting to acquire nuclear weapons as a defense against North Korea.

Let`s watch the part of that it that the Clinton people -- or the Clinton PAC people grabbed from that quote and attached to a statement about war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So North Korea has nukes. Japan has a big problem with it. They have a big problem with it. Maybe they would in fact be better off if they defend themselves from North Korea. Maybe they would be better off.

QUESTION: With nukes?

TRUMP: Including with nukes, yes, including with nukes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Kellyanne, that was tied together to the earlier statement about like certain things about war, a clear -- well, I wouldn`t call it a distortion. I would call that a lie. What do you make of it?

(CROSSTALK)

CONWAY: Chris, thank you so much for calling them out.

I was on your show months ago.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: They did it yesterday, too.

CONWAY: Listen, I was on your show months ago when you called out the other distortion and lie when he had made a comment about China and they were pretending he said it about a woman.

But, look, I think voters see right through this. What do you think voters expect and deserve? A policy speech on military readiness like the one Donald Trump delivered in Philadelphia today, and a town hall like the one NBC News is sponsoring tonight, or a 30-second ad which is sliced and diced and cherry-picked and totally misleading?

I have my faith in the voters that they will know that that is complete desperation. Donald Trump is rising in the polls. He went to Mexico last week. Then he gave an immigration speech on the same day. He was in Louisiana, he was in Detroit. He`s looking presidential.

After the Democratic Convention, they said he`s not presidential. We have responded by showing he`s presidential.

MATTHEWS: Well, let`s get moving. Here`s more from the -- Trump today, the Trumpster today, talking about his plan to counter ISIS. I want General Flynn to answer this one. Let`s watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Immediately after taking office, I will ask my generals to present to me a plan within 30 days to defeat and destroy ISIS. This will require military warfare, but also cyber-warfare, financial warfare and ideological warfare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: General, will the military meet an order like that?

I understand they always like to give you option one, option two, option three. Well, if you said to the Joint Chiefs, a month from now, I want to plan to kill these guys, we will take care of the diplomatic part of it later or the other part, the psy-war, I want to know how to beat them up on the battlefield, could they do that? Would they come back with a plan to do it?

FLYNN: Yes, absolutely.

And I think the four components that he just said, cyber, financial, ideological, and military, are four great strategic areas.

MATTHEWS: Why haven`t they done it yet?

FLYNN: Because the ideological component of this thing, the president of the United States, Hillary Clinton, they won`t even call this enemy what it ISIS.

MATTHEWS: Well, is that stopping us from winning?

FLYNN: It does, Chris.

MATTHEWS: How? Explain how it does it.

FLYNN: If you don`t clearly define the threat that you`re up against, you cannot conduct a coherent strategy.

MATTHEWS: It is ISIS.

FLYNN: It is radical Islamism. And they have attacked in 22 to 25 countries.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: But on the battlefield, what difference does it call...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Whether you call your enemies the Nazis, the Jerries or the Germans or whatever, what difference does it matter what you call your enemy?

(CROSSTALK)

FLYNN: Just like we called the Nazis out and just like we called the communists out. For 40 years, we beat them ideologically more than we beat them on the battlefield. And we have to be able to do that.

And this is a big component of it. From the military piece of this, this is where Donald Trump said today, hey, look, I want -- in 30 days, I want a plan that shows we can beat these guys.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You man to tell me that the generals would...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... a month-long plan to defeat ISIS, say, wait a minute...

(CROSSTALK)

FLYNN: Not a month-long plan.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Come up with a plan.

FLYNN: Yes.

MATTHEWS: First thing with -- you have to call them Islam fascists or Islamofascists? That`s important?

FLYNN: It`s very important. It`s very important.

And the other part of this, the other part of this, Chris, is that we have to be able to demonstrate that we can actually beat these guys. And we know we can. Our military is not able to unleash the capabilities that they have today.

(CROSSTALK)

CONWAY: If it is not a big deal, why doesn`t Hillary just say it? We can ask it the other way. If it`s not a big deal -- she called them our determined enemies at the convention speech. That`s crazy.

MATTHEWS: All right, Churchill mispronounced their names, it didn`t bother the Nazis any. I think he actually did bother them. He called them Nazis.

Anyway, thank you.

I`m not sure the name matters.

FLYNN: But he called them what they were.

MATTHEWS: I know. I know. I know.

Thank you, Kellyanne, thank you, General Michael Flynn, for the Trump campaign.

Up next, by the way, we`re going to hear from the Clinton side about what to expect from Secretary Clinton tonight. The NBC News Commander-in-Chief Forum set to begin, by the way, at the top of this hour.

And this is HARDBALL, live at the Intrepid aircraft carrier. There we are on the West Side of New York in the Hudson River. There we are.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This election shouldn`t be about ideology. It is not just about differences over policy. It truly is about who has the experience and the temperament to serve as president and commander in chief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL live from the Intrepid aircraft carrier for tonight`s NBC News Commander-in-Chief Forum, which is coming up very soon now.

Well, that was Hillary Clinton, of course, Secretary Clinton last night before the American Legion making the case for why she is best equipped to be commander in chief.

Well, today, Donald Trump questioned her qualifications. Let`s listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She can`t even remember whether she has trained in the use of classified information. And she said she didn`t know the letter C means confidential or at least classified. If she can`t remember such crucial events, and information, honestly, she`s totally unfit to be our commander in chief. Totally unfit.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, tonight, Secretary Clinton will get a chance to take her policy proposals directly to the American veterans who have fought for this country.

So, just where does the potential first female commander in chief stand on the war and national security? What is her plan to defeat ISIS? And how will she address lengthy wait times at VA hospitals which are out there now?

For more, I`m joined by the ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, top Democrat from Rhode Island and Clinton supporter Jack Reed, and retired Brigadier General Loree Sutton, a Clinton supporter.

General, I want to ask you about this question of Hillary Clinton. Now everybody is trying to figure out Hillary Clinton, because that`s what we do for the last 20 years is figure out any of these politicians, especially perhaps probably, in fact, many cases, we would say the first woman president of the United States.

Andrea Mitchell, I respect dramatically over the years. I have watched her. She studies Hillary Clinton a lot. She knows her. And she said she doesn`t to have prove anymore that, because I`m a woman, I`m going to be tough. She says she`s past that. She`s already proven whatever she had to prove in terms of toughness. Do you buy that? Does being the first woman president put on you a place of a burden wouldn`t be put on another president just to say you`re as tough as the guys?

BRIG. GEN. LOREE SUTTON (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Any pioneering role always puts a certain load that wouldn`t be there for someone who is not that minority, in this case a woman.

So, I think, with Hillary, she`s been dedicated to service her entire career. Her life of service reflects that. Her relationships around the world reflect that. She studies. She`s prepared from day one.

MATTHEWS: Let me to go Senator Reed.

Where would you put Hillary Clinton? Because you were a colleague of hers for all those years. Where would you put her in terms of dove vs. hawk compared to the president right now? Is she more hawkish than the president?

SEN. JACK REED (D), RHODE ISLAND: I think she is the foreign policy realist. I think she understands the use of diplomacy, but necessarily buttressed by force in limited cases.

She`s someone who I have worked closely and recall fondly traveling to Afghanistan for Thanksgiving in 2003 and seeing her with troops, inspiring them, while also being inspired by them.

So, she is someone who is superbly prepared. Great interest in the field, knowledge, personal knowledge of world leaders, of world issues.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

REED: She is someone who is going to be an extraordinary first president of the United States, female.

MATTHEWS: When you see this tape, I think you will be struck by it,as you will be, General, I think.

I talked to her about our history of involvement in assassinations over the years, in knocking off leaders like Mosaddegh in Iran, and Allende, and Arbenz in Guatemala, and Patrice Lumumba, and all these guys we -- we undercut.

We have a history of changing leaders we don`t like and some assassinations. Well, look at this. During a town hall back in March, I asked Secretary Clinton about America`s involvement in overseas assassinations. And here`s what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: If somebody could have assassinated Hitler before he took over Germany, would that have been a good thing or not?

You cannot paint with a broad brush. Individual situations and most of the ones you named are ones that I think in retrospect did not have a very defensible kind of calculation behind them.

But I think it is a mistake to say you can`t ever prevent war, you can`t ever save people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: What do you make of that, General?

SUTTON: I think she is a steady presence.

MATTHEWS: No, about assassinations and not willing to just rule them out completely.

SUTTON: Precisely.

MATTHEWS: You don`t think we can?

SUTTON: She is someone who takes a measured approach. She knows that there are some actions, like, for example, when she recommended to President Obama that it was time to take chance and go after Obama (sic).

MATTHEWS: Osama bin Laden.

SUTTON: Or, actually, Osama bin Laden.

MATTHEWS: I understand. It`s a mistake too often made, yes.

SUTTON: But the other piece of this is, talk to folks like Secretary Bob Gates, who was secretary of defense, who talked about in his biography, when he -- his autobiography, he talked about how he was not really -- because of all the things he had heard about Hillary, he was not sure he would like her.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

SUTTON: He talked about how much respect he has for her, how well they worked together...

MATTHEWS: I heard that.

SUTTON: ... how knowledgeable she is and how well her background, her life of service has prepared her for this moment in history.

MATTHEWS: Back to you, Senator, about the broad strokes.

Voters deal in broad strokes. They can`t into the -- they don`t get to know candidates personally. They have to decide where they think we have gone wrong on the last presidency. Most elections are correcting the previous presidency. We all know that. Oh, W. wasn`t smart enough, so we bring in Obama.

Was Obama tough enough? We bring in somebody maybe a notch tougher than him. I think that`s why Hillary is population, because they see her as a notch tougher.

Where do you see her in the spectrum? I mean, is she going to learn from Obama, be a little different from him or not, or be the same as him?

REED: I think she has the ability to bring together extraordinary experience.

Few people have ever spent eight years in the White House at a point, as she did, watching everything happening. In fact, she is the only one I can think in history. She served in the United States. She knows the armed forces. She served on the Armed Services Committee.

She`s got all those skills. And, in fact, I think people -- you`re right, Chris. They`re looking for someone that is going to face a difficult world with experience, realistic, tough-minded, but very conscious of our role in the world, very conscious that diplomacy should be our leading edge, not our following edge, and also someone who I think will make an attempt to bring together the entire country, not separate them, not build walls, but unite people.

And I think that`s a powerful force that is bringing people to her. Again, I can`t think of any person who is as well-prepared to be president of the United States than Hillary Rodham Clinton.

MATTHEWS: Well, I`ll tell you what. I think this country has been educated in the last 16 years by these wars in Afghanistan which have become open-ended, with Iraq that cost us that entire officer corps that went off and joined ISIS, unintended consequence there, by de- Baathification, something the American people had nothing to do with that decision, going into Libya, getting involved in that civil war, and without any man for what would come afterwards, getting involved in Syria in an area where we are once again stuck in the mud, or in the sand, rather.

The American people have been educated too. And what they don`t want are a lot more wars. That`s my hunch. And I think the candidates are responding to that.

Senator Jack Reed, thank you, sir, for coming on, ranking Democrat on Armed Services from up in Rhode Island.

REED: Thanks, Chris.

MATTHEWS: And Brigadier General Loree Sutton, thank you, General. We hope to see you a lot, General.

SUTTON: Thank you so much.

MATTHEWS: Thank you very much.

MATTHEWS: You are a trailblazer yourself, I`m sure.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Are you not?

SUTTON: A bit.

MATTHEWS: OK.

SUTTON: I`m the luckiest general on Earth, Chris. Thank you so much.

MATTHEWS: OK. Thank you.

Up next: The fight against ISIS and the unrest in the Middle East will be a big challenge for whoever gets to be the next commander in chief, the next president.

When we come back, our chief foreign correspondent, Richard Engel, will join us from Istanbul. And he`s going to tell us what the big story is, what the big worry is for the next president, as we await the start of the NBC News Commander-in-Chief Forum right here on this aircraft carrier coming up at the top of the hour.

You`re watching it, HARDBALL, the place for politics.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTHEWS: Welcome back. Welcome back to HARDBALL live from the Intrepid aircraft carrier. It`s now a museum up here in New York, on the West Side of New York, on the Hudson River. Look at these amazing pictures. That`s where we are right now.

We`re awaiting the start right now of the NBC News Commander-in-Chief Forum. It`s the top of the hour at 8:00 Eastern.

And with all eyes around the world focused on this election right here in the U.S. this fall, tonight, we expect to learn more about how both of the candidates view world events and troubled areas throughout the globe.

Richard Engel to my right here is chief foreign correspondent for -- no, he`s not. He`s the other guy over -- for NBC News. Richard Haass to my right is president of the Council on Foreign Relations and a former special assistant to the President Herbert Walker Bush.

Now, let`s get ready for the national anthem.

(NATIONAL ANTHEM)

MATTHEWS: Well, that`s the national anthem, of course, sung tonight by the marine combat veteran turned actor, J.W. Cortes, star of the primetime hit series, TV series, "Gotham".

Anyway, right back to where we were with Richard Haas. First of all, if you`re president of the United States, you`re coming in office January 20th this year, what is your biggest thing you should be worried about?

RICHARD HAASS, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: One way to answer the question, there`s a lot of things to worry about. This president is going to inherit the messiest world and the most difficult inbox of any president in modern times, just the sheer number of difficult times, a Middle East that`s unraveling. A Russia that`s challenging Ukraine and possibly elsewhere, potential conflicts in the South China Sea, East China Sea. A North Korea that will soon have small nuclear warheads on missiles that can reach the continental United States, ongoing --

MATTHEWS: Really. They`re ready to do that?

HAASS: That could be one of the big crises of the next presidency, certainly by the end of the first term or early in the second term if there is one. I think North Korea will reach that point.

MATTHEWS: When do we get to know that? When they test, the range?

HAASS: We`ll see the range and we`ll probably have intelligence of miniaturization of warheads. One of the questions is, will we have advance warning?

Or will we simply have one day with the new director of national intelligence, goes into the Oval Office and goes, Mr. President, Madam President, we now believe North Korea has crossed this threshold? We are then going to have to decide, this next commander in chief is going to have to decide, is that something the United States can live with, Kim Jong-un with nuclear weapons that can reach the United States? Or is this simply something that`s beyond the pale?

MATTHEWS: Beyond the pale, deterrence even.

HAASS: Well, whether you trust deterrence or defense to work --

MATTHEWS: Let me go to Richard Engel.

Richard Engel, you`re usually on the there on the battle front or the war front. What is -- if you had to go to sleep at night as president, what would you wake up thinking about in the middle of the night?

RICHARD ENGEL, NBC NEWS CHIEF FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as Richard Haass was saying, I would be concerned that Russian expansionism. There are a lot of troops, tens of thousands of troops very close to the Ukrainian border. There`s some concern that they could use this period well while the U.S. is focused on its elections to even move into parts of Eastern Ukraine. That`s an immediate concern right now.

Obviously, the situation in Syria where every day, there is a new atrocity and just over the last two days, these allegations of yet another chlorine gas attack on the people of Aleppo. And then longer term, it`s all the failed states, all of the failed states that have been hemorrhaging refugees across Europe. How is Europe going to absorb them? Can Europe absorb them?

Will we see the rise of more right wing parties which we`ve already started to see in Eastern Europe? Will we see more of that? More Brexits? The collapse of the E.U.? An incredibly complex situation for the next commander-in-chief --

MATTHEWS: So, everybody can go to sleep -- everybody is listening to all these lists. What can a president begin on wrap up? A great American president? Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump? What can they reasonably expect to wrap up to shorten this agenda of hell we have to face in the world? What can get done?

HAASS: Well, one thing would be trade. He or she is probably going to inherit the Trans Pacific Partnership. That trade agreement has been negotiated and saving that. It`s been signed.

Can you somehow come up with a bipartisan support? If we can, it would help economically, tremendously, strategically --

MATTHEWS: You`re for it.

HAASS: Absolutely. If we can`t do it, it will really I think -- it may be a major problem to the United States and Asia, not just economically but strategically. Fundamental questions about American political, the ability to function and raise major questions about American political reliability. I would look at that. Venezuela, depending on what happens there. It could be something wrapped up.

MATTHEWS: We could reestablish our relations with that country.

HAASS: Potentially. It might have to go through a failed state.

I would think though something Richard said, Syria is going to be test case. Not to wrap it up. Syria won`t be wrapped up in your lifetime or mine.

But one of the tests the entire world was going to have for this president, is he or she willing to do things Barack Obama didn`t? I don`t mean reckless things. Maybe attack the Syrian air force on the ground, maybe create a no-fly zone. Something to differentiate them, to say there is a new sheriff in town. We can`t wrap it up but it is a powerful signal to send.

MATTHEWS: What is Obama leaving for the next president? I`ve been reading about a potential once again, a Mideast peace attempt before he leaves. Is that something the next president will have to continue or drop? Richard?

ENGEL: Well, I think there is a lot of effort to try to come up with a framework. There are supposed to be talks next couple days between Secretary Kerry and the Russian counter parts to yet again close a cease fire deal. But in reality, even if they do sign some piece of paper, it seems very unlikely that we`re going to see U.S., Russian, Syrian, Iranian, Hezbollah coordination in a way that also satisfies Turkey and the Kurds and all of the other parties in the next several months.

So, I think Richard is right. Trying on ride out this ceasefire and hope that it works and build on it in the next administration is probably a failed policy. I think a different approach is one that --

MATTHEWS: Gentlemen, I expect in the next several months during this interregnum as we go into the new presidency, there will be people testing and getting ready to test us even further, regardless of who we pick as our next president.

Thank you, Richard Engel, as always. Thank you, Richard Haass, of the Council of Foreign Relations.

ENGEL: Of course.

MATTHEWS: When we return, the issues that most concern our veterans. Montel Williams is going to be with us with the challenges facing men and women when they get home.

Well, that`s the big part and we ought to get to that and we`re going to get closer right now as we do to the start of NBC News Commander-in-Chief Forum which is coming. You see it right there on the screen at the top of this hour. And this is HARDBALL, live at the Intrepid, in fact on the flight deck of the Intrepid aircraft carrier up in New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTHEWS: Well, we`re about ten minutes away right now from the first candidates` forum of this general campaign season featuring both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump on the same seat, I think, alternating, of course. Moments ago, Secretary Clinton arrived here at the Intrepid. There`s a picture.

And at the top of the hour, NBC`s Matt Lauer is going to moderate the NBC News Commander-in-Chief Forum and you can watch it right here on MSNBC. Don`t turn the channel. Right here. It`s all going to be here for that hour. We`ll come back afterwards. Rachel will be leading the show when we come back.

And we`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTHEWS: Well, the hall is ready, we`re just now a few minutes away from the start of this NBC News Commander-in-Chief forum. Really, it`s the first big event of this fall season, live from the Intrepid aircraft carrier up here in New York. A dramatic spot for a dramatic evening.

We`re joined once again by NBC News political director and moderator, of course, of "Meet the Press" Chuck Todd, there he is. NBC News chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell. We got the big guns in the aircraft carrier tonight -- and retired Air Force Army colonel and MSNBC military analyst, Jack Jacob. We got to get the service right.

And with us from L.A. is former Navy lieutenant commander and talk show host, Montel Williams.

Montel, I`ll be with you in a minute.

I wanted you to do this, just as analysts, reporters, without a lot of interpretation. Hillary Clinton, how is she presenting herself as the next Commander-in-Chief in broad strokes?

COL. JACK JACOBS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Even-tempered, reliable, experienced and grown-up is probably how she`s trying to put herself.

MATTHEWS: Andrea?

ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEWS CHIEF FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Not trigger-happy. Trying to make up for the criticism of the Iraq war and that she, according to the trump people, was too eager to get involved in Libya, Egypt, and other regime removals.

MATTHEWS: So interesting.

CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: Methodical preparedness. Like that is -- it`s never going to be showy with her, but she`s a grinder, and I think they believe that it`s not always an asset when you need charisma, but for her, I think it`s an asset.

MATTHEWS: It`s like when you put your money in an investment, the people that cover your money, not take any chances. We`re going to protect your money.

TODD: Diversify, diversify. Don`t put me all in the crazy funds.

JACOBS: I think if she were running against somebody other than Donald Trump, her pitch would be slightly different.

MATTHEWS: Let`s talk about Trump. What`s his self-presentation? What`s he offering us that you hear?

JACOBS: Tough. He presents himself as the tough guy. His perception is that we face a large number of threats around the world and the only thing that these people understand is toughness.

MATTHEWS: I`m going to shove back. That`s how he strikes me.

MITCHELL: But also change, I`m different, I`m not going to go along with these old treaties, with trade deals. I`m going to shake things up. I can make deals, the deal-maker.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

TODD: It`s almost ditto. I do think tonight his goal is to present himself as capable of the job.

MATTHEWS: And knowing all the words.

TODD: And showing some sophistication about it. But I think overall, it`s sort of a toughness with, hey, putting America first.

MATTHEWS: What do you think Matt`s going to try to do tonight?

TODD: I don`t want to get into Matt`s head.

MATTHEWS: No, what do you think he`s going to -- what is the goal tonight if you`re the moderator? What is the goal? That`s not a tricky question.

TODD: No, it`s not. Especially with Matt, but Matt is so good at this format. And the conversational aspect of this can actually trip you up if you`re not careful, if you`re a candidate. Because he can be very effective at getting you off of your scripted talking points. I think that`s Matt`s gift in general, because think about it. He only does a three-minute interview. He has the hardest job of interviewing anybody in our business, because he only gets about three or four minutes. So, he knows the tricks of keeping people up talking.

MATTHEWS: Let`s move on to the condition in which our servicemen and women come back home after they fought the good war, the bad war, whatever.

Let`s go to Montel Williams.

Give me a sense of what you would want to hear, what would you grill these two candidates on tonight?

MONTEL WILLIAMS TALK SHOW HOST: You know, Chris, one of the things that surprises me, when each candidate talks about their policies, or about how they`re going to deal with all the crises around the world, remember the tip of their spear are the soldiers, sailors, airmen, coast guard men and marines that are out there fighting the battle for them. We have yet to hear from either candidate, though I`ve heard Donald Trump and I`ve read their online policies of what they intend to do.

But one of the things I`d like to hear from them tonight, we`re going to go and make sure that each house, the House and the Senate will pass a resolution that states that we are going to fund a bill that will take care of the V.A. problems. We don`t need to destroy it or privatize it, we need to fix it. And we`ve not done that or made a hard attempt at doing so. And I want to hear from them how they`re going to do that.

MATTHEWS: Well, I`m going to bring in Colonel Jacobs, too, because I`m looking at these numbers here, we just got to pull together, 600 -- almost 700,000 service people coming back with mental disorders. These are individual people, 600,000, 700,000 -- 600,000 with nervous system problems, plus all the other stuff, the amputees, the blindness, the deafness. I mean, you meet some of these guys, they`ve given it all.

JACOBS: It`s very sad and some of us are old enough to remember what the world looked like after the Second World War. I lived in a neighborhood in New York, where some of my friends didn`t have fathers, and others were missing bits and pieces because of the war. We grew up in that environment. And now we have it again.

I think the V.A. is not fixable as a medical institution. And I think that if somebody serves this country, shows up with an honorable discharge, you say, thank you very much, and you give them a Medicare card and he goes to whatever doctor he wants to, gets taken care of, and then you don`t have to get an appointment to get an appointment, and none of this stuff would occur.

MATTHEWS: So, you get first class treatment.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Chris, I got to disagree with that.

MITCHELL: Just to say, in a volunteer system, with the economy we`ve had for the last decade, what you`re talking about is service from the smallest percentage, 2 percent of Americans --

MATTHEWS: They do it all.

MITCHELL: And often from lower income levels. For them, this is the way to climb out and get the G.I. bill and it`s just not right.

MATTHEWS: Everybody knows that we are not served and protected by the general population. We`re served and protected by a very small portion of the population, that not necessarily hangs out socially with the rest. You`re talking about the top 1 percent. What about the 2 percent that save us? They`re isolated in many ways.

WILLIAMS: And the colonel made a very good point. When he entered the service and when I did in 1973, we lived in a time when our Congress and Senate, about 80 percent of them had a dog in this race. They either served themselves or a family member did.

If you look at our Congress and Senate right now, you have less than 20 percent that did. And you take a look at both candidates, neither one of them have a family member that did.

So, what we`ve got to do is remember that we have people who are very quickly ready to put troops on the ground, where they wouldn`t even let their own children be those troops. If they`re willing to send your children off to die that quickly, that means they don`t care that deeply in your heart.

I want to go back to the question of whether or not the V.A. is fixable. Let`s remember, some of the top technologies we have right now, as civilians, where technology is learned from the battlefield and learned through the V.A. So, the V.A. is not the problem. The leadership of the V.A. is the problem and if we fix that, we fix the problem.

MATTHEWS: Why do we have a V.A., and why don`t we just have Medicare cards?

JACOBS: Well, this is an outgrowth of the Second World War, we had 20 million people under arms, the war was over, we gave them the G.I. bill, we give all the V.A. stuff to make sure they got taken care of. Now, we`re in an environment where less than one-half of 1 percent of the American public is currently in uniform.

MATTHEWS: Right. OK.

JACOBS: There`s no need to have a parallel redundant system of medicine.

MATTHEWS: Thanks so much. Chuck Todd, Andrea Mitchell, Colonel Jack Jacobs, and Montel Williams, it`s going to be an exciting night here on this aircraft carrier and it begins right now with NBC`s Matt Lauer and the Commander-in-Chief Forum.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END