Show: HARDBALL Date: June 24, 2016 Guest: Gillian Tett, Christopher Dickey, Jamil Smith, Catherine Rampell, Jonathan Capehart, Heidi Przybyla
JOY REID, GUEST HOST: Brexit remorse?
Let`s play HARDBALL.
Good evening. I`m Joy Reid, in for Chris Matthews.
The world reacted with shock today at the news that the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. It`s a decision that could have huge repercussions not just in Europe, but here in the U.S., as well.
Stocks fell across the globe, and uncertainty loomed in Britain over what exactly happens next. One immediate consequence came early. Prime Minister David Cameron, who campaigned strongly for his country to remain part of the E.U., announced he would step down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think the country requires fresh leadership to take it in this direction. I will do everything I can as prime minister to steady the ship over the coming weeks and months, but I do not think it would be right for me to try to be the captain that steers our country to its next destination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: One of the leaders of the pro-leave movement was Nigel Farage, the head of the right-wing U.K. Independence Party. He waged a campaign against immigrants, warning of a "fifth column living within our country who hate us and want to kill us."
He celebrated last night`s vote as a victory for, quote, "ordinary people."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIGEL FARAGE, U.K. INDEPENDENCE PARTY: Ladies and gentlemen, dare to dream that the dawn is breaking on an independent United Kingdom!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
FARAGE: We have fought against the multi-nationals. We fought against the big merchant banks. We fought against big politics. We fought against lies, corruption and deceit. Let June 23rd go down in our history as our independence day!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: President Obama joined almost every other world leader in strongly backing the campaign for the U.K. to remain in the E.U.. Today, he said the U.S. would respect the decision of British voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just a few hours ago, I spoke with Prime Minister David Cameron. David has been an outstanding friend and partner on the global stage.
I do think that yesterday`s vote speaks to the ongoing changes and challenges that are raised by globalization. But while the U.K.`s relationship with the E.U. will change, one thing that will not change is the special relationship that exists between our two nations. That will endure. The E.U. will remain one of our indispensable partners.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, meanwhile, split on the referendum. In recent days, Trump said he would be personally be more inclined to leave. Today, traveling in Scotland, he had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: My opinion is that what happened should have happened, and I think they`ll end up being stronger for it and they`ll control their country and they`re control everything about their country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton supported the U.K. remaining in the E.U.. In a statement today, she said, "We respect the choice that the people of the United Kingdom have made. Our first task has to be to make sure the economic uncertainty created by these events does not hurt working families here in America. We also have to make clear America`s steadfast commitment to the special relationship with Britain and the transatlantic alliance with E.U.rope."
We`ll have a lot more on the reactions from Trump and Clinton, but we begin with this monumental vote in Great Britain and what it could mean for the world.
Gillian Tett is the U.S. managing editor for "The Financial Times," and with us from Paris is Christopher Dickey, world news editor for the DailyBeast.
And Gillian, I`ll start with you here at the table. Walk us through the immediate implications of this vote. What happens in the next year, two years?
GILLIAN TETT, "FINANCIAL TIMES": Well, there are three sets of indications. Firstly, in the short term, a lot of financial market turmoil. We`ve already seen that, 600.4 (ph) on the Dow-Jones in the U.S., very dramatic market swings.
In the medium term, though, the big question is what happens on the political side of things because that`s going to be a very messy, long divorce negotiation now between the U.K. and the European Union. As anyone who`s ever been through a divorce will know, that takes a lot longer than anyone expects.
REID: Yes.
TETT: Always a lot more cross (ph) and acrimonious. It`s going to be nasty.
REID: And hasn`t the E.U. vowed to really be tough on Britain, not give them favorable trade terms, not make it easy for them to walk away?
TETT: Well (INAUDIBLE) a divorce. Everyone`s throwing all kinds of wild statements around. Let`s hope that calm heads eventually rule, but right now, it looks messy.
And the thing that`s making the E.U. very scared, indeed, and (INAUDIBLE) in the financial markets is the a domino effect, the fact that you`ve actually got a lot of national parties elsewhere in the European Union saying they want referendums, too.
And the most amazing thing of all to realize is that the U.K. is not the country where voters are most unhappy with the European Union. If you look at the polls, places like France have even bigger levels of discord (ph) and content (ph).
And then the third, long-term question is about the economy. What does this mean for growth, because, actually, the world economy is already starting to slow down a bit, and this is not going to help.
REID: Yes. And Christopher, to that very point, you already have some rumblings now in France that they`d like to (INAUDIBLE) doing the same thing. On the other hand, you have Scotland saying, well, maybe they`ll part from Great Britain because they want to stay in the European Union. Talk about some of the regional instability that we could see as a result of this vote.
CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, DAILYBEAST: Well, I think, as Gillian pointed out, really, the big question mark is France. You know, Britain always had one foot out of the European experiment. It was not part of the euro zone. It`s not part of the Schengen free travel zone inside the European continent.
But France is right at the core of it, and yet E.U.rope is very unpopular in France. Only 41 percent of the French wanted Great Britain to stay in, and only, I think, about 52 percent of the French think that their lives are better because of the European Union.
They`re right in the middle of those countries that think it really -- the European Union is not worthwhile.
So the idea that you have Marine Le Pen, who has taken what was really a racist and even anti-semitic party and turned it into an anti-European party because that seemed more acceptable and could get her further in the electoral game here, and that she`s saying it`s time to have a referendum and that she probably is going to come in first in the first round of the presidential elections next year -- all of that that creates an image of huge instability right in the core of E.U.rope.
REID: And...
DICKEY: And I think that that is going to be very problematic for months to come.
REID: Yes. And to that very point, immigration became a focal point of the campaign to leave the E.U.. Last week, the right-wing UKIP -- U.K. Independence Party -- launched a poster campaign showing a line of immigrants and warned Britain to, quote, "take back control of our borders." As Buzzfeed pointed out, the photo was taken in Slovenia last year, not exactly on Britain`s doorstep.
And Gillian, to the extent that a lot of this was anti-immigrant sentiment, that actually is a concern because you`re talking about many countries that are absorbing a lot of Syrian refugees. How much was xenophobia a part of this vote, as opposed to economic unrest?
TETT: Well, what you have right now is really a howl of outrage against globalization. In some ways, it`s so reminiscent of the 1930s because remember, after 1929, it took a few years until you really began to get protectionism come (ph) in properly (ph) and all the xenophobia that marked the 1930s.
In some way, what we`re seeing today is almost like a delayed reaction to the financial crisis and a howl of rage against the elites who`ve benefited from globalization. And to many people, what`s happened in the last 24 hours seems absolute madness, as far as the U.K. is concerned.
I mean, what we wrote in the "FT" today that -- or in tomorrow -- this is probably the most disastrous single event in British history since the Second World War. It`s really akin, in some ways, to the Berlin wall coming down in terms of the potential to create all these knock-on contagion (ph) effects.
And yet the reality is, a large part of ordinary people regard this is a victory, as something that`s going to be good for them. And that issue of populism is posing big questions not just for the U.K. but also for America. And of course, it`s the kind of thing that`s fueling the right and Donald Trump right now.
REID: Yes, absolutely. But you know, the difference, Christopher, between the U.S. and the U.K. is that our response in this country to the huge collapse in 2008 was investment. It was the stimulus. There was a huge fight over it with the Republicans who didn`t want to do it, but that`s what we did.
The response in the U.K. was austerity. And in fact, you`ve had the World Bank and others really pushing this idea of austerity in Greece and in places like Great Britain. Is part of this a response to the restrictions that were done to the health care system, cutting benefits to people -- sort of the pain they felt from Cameron`s own policies?
DICKEY: Well, maybe to some extent, but there are all kinds of paradoxes here. I mean, for one thing, the National Health Service in Great Britain could barely function now without immigrant labor, without people coming in from other parts of the European Union who are working as nurses and doctors in the National Health Service.
Are those people all going to leave? And then what`s going to happen to the National Health Service? So these are the kinds of things that come up.
It`s really all -- it`s about a sense of insecurity as people look at the world and feel that their lives are going to change, that their country`s not going to be the same anymore, but the people who sold Brexit sold it on two contrasting, in fact, contradictory levels. One was, We`re going to build a wall. We`re going to be independent. We`re going to protect our borders. We`re going to keep those immigrants out, even though, actually, those Syrian immigrants are not coming into Britain.
We`re going to do all the things that, for instance, Donald Trump says he`s going to do in the United States. But at the same time, we`re going to be independent and we`re going to much more able to deal with the globalized world, and we`re going to be fast movers and great businessmen.
Well, it`s all crap. That`s not what`s going to happen. What`s going to happen, as the "FT," in fact, pointed out very well, is that people are not going to be able to move around. Young people in Britain, who would normally have 27 countries in which they could work, are not going to be able to do that. People who are working in Britain already are going to have to leave or renegotiate their status. It`s going to be a disaster!
And it was sold on the basis of all kinds of illusions and lies, and people are waking up to that now, but it`s a little late.
REID: And Gillian (INAUDIBLE) some of that backlash, people saying, Oh, my God, I regret my vote.
TETT: OK. I must say, as a youngish British person, I feel pretty devastated. And what you`re seeing already is not just signs of an incredibly sick (ph) nation, where there are polls out today showing that many of the people who voted to leave or to remain didn`t know anybody in the other camp.
The level of polarization in a country like U.K. right now is very scary, and of course, that reflects the American situation, too. But also, you`re seeing people who have been telling the media reporters today that they kind of regret what they voted for. People say, Well, I voted leave, but actually, you know what? I kind of regret it because I thought we were going to stay anyway. I just wanted to make a protest.
We actually have a letter in "The Financial Times" from someone saying that they actually tried to retract their postal vote, having voted leave, because they suddenly, having sent in their postal ballot, realized the implications of that.
And you have to say at that point, Well, what were you thinking? Democracy is not a game.
REID: Yes.
TETT: I mean, this is irreversible. And that`s why so many people today who were actually wanting the U.K. to stay part of the European Union are, frankly, so devastated.
REID: Yes. Absolutely. But for the grace of God, I think any country, this can happen if you don`t realize your vote really does count. It`s valuable and important.
Gillian Tett and Christopher Dickey, thank you both so much.
And coming up -- could it happen here? Britain`s vote to leave E.U.rope is rooted in the same nationalistic, anti-elite, anti-immigrant forces that are helping power Donald Trump`s campaign in this country. When we return, I`m going to ask James Carville what Hillary Clinton needs to do to buck what may be an emerging global trend.
Plus, financial markets around the world have plunged in the wake of the Brexit vote, and things could get much worse before they get better. What Britain`s decision to leave E.U.rope means for your money.
And here at home, Bernie Sanders finally says he`ll vote for Hillary Clinton, but guess what? He`s still in the presidential race!
And finally, as the vote to leave E.U.rope rolled in last night, shocked Britons were comforted by the tweets of Lindsay Lohan. The HARDBALL roundtable is here for that one, next.
This is HARDBALL, the place for politics.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: Boris Johnson, the conservative former mayor of London, was one of the leaders of the campaign to exit the E.U.. He`s now considered a top contender to become Britain`s next prime minister. Here he was earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, FMR. MAYOR OF LONDON: There is simply no need in the 21st century to be part of a federal system of government based in Brussels that is imitated nowhere else on earth. It was a noble idea for its time. It is no longer right for this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: If Johnson does become prime minister, his first meeting with President Obama might be a little awkward. Back in April, he suggested the president`s motivation for supporting the U.K. remaining in the E.U. might have to do with anti-British sentiment. He mentioned a Winston Churchill bust that was removed from the Oval Office shortly after President Obama moved into the White House.
Quote, "Some said it was a snub to Britain. Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan president`s ancestral dislike of the British empire, of which Churchill had been such a fervent defender," unquote.
We`ll be right back.
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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: They`ve taken back their independence, and that`s a very, very important thing.
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REID: Welcome back to HARDBALL. That was Donald Trump celebrating the shocking news of the U.K.`s divorce from the European Union. Trump and his entourage touched down in Scotland as the markets continue to nosedive. The business trip, scheduled weeks ago, marked the reopening of Trump`s golf course in Turnberry, Scotland.
At a press conference which bordered on the surreal, Trump highlighted his personal business accomplishments and touted benefits of the market`s instability.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The pound goes down, more people are coming to Turnberry, frankly, and the pound has gone down. And let`s see what the impact of that has (ph). But I think places like Scotland and England and different places in Great Britain -- I think you`re going to see a lot of -- a lot of activity. The pound got high, and people weren`t able to do maybe what they wanted to do. But for traveling and for other things, you know, I think it could very well turn out to be a positive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: What was made clear last night was that populist anger has been on the rise throughout E.U.rope and the United States, and Trump has capitalized on that frustration. Overnight, Trump highlighted the parallels between the U.K. and the U.S., saying, quote, "Come November, the American people will have chance to redeclare their independence. American will have a chance vote for trade, immigration and foreign policies that put our citizens first. They will have the chance to reject today`s rule by the global elite and to embrace real change (INAUDIBLE) deliver (ph) the government of, by and for the people." (INAUDIBLE) wrote that!
Vice President Joe Biden, speaking in Ireland, pushed back at Trump`s assertions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some politicians find it convenient to scapegoat immigrants instead of welcoming them, to play to our fears...
(APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: ... to play to our fears, rather than as Abraham Lincoln said, appeal to our better angels, divide us based on religion or ethnicity, rather than unite us on our common humanity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: And late today, Hillary Clinton released this ad taking Trump to task. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you traveling with any of your foreign policy advisers?
TRUMP: Well, I`ve been in touch with them, but there`s nothing to talk about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Dow looks to open lower by about 500 points.
TRUMP: Look, if the pound goes down, they`re going to do more business. You know, when the pound goes down, more people are coming to Turnberry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: For more on what the British exit means for our own political future, I`m joined by Democratic strategist James Carville and senior political reporter for "USA Today" Heidi Pryzbyla. Thank you both for being here.
I`m going to start with you on this, James, because Donald Trump is trying to tie himself to this Brexit vote, maybe not realizing that the Brexit vote is going to be catastrophic for the U.K..
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I also think he doesn`t understand what`s going on. He`s standing in Scotland, and this has enhanced the chances that Scotland is going to get -- not be part of the U.K.. (INAUDIBLE) part of the European Union. They voted overwhelmingly to stay in the European Union.
The other thing is he`s talking about how this is going to help Turnberry. Last time I checked, Florida is a swing state, and it is very, very much British tourism in Florida. And my kind of 9th grade economics (INAUDIBLE) that`s going to make it very, very expensive for British tourism in places like Florida. So I -- maybe he`ll -- maybe he`ll get a few more votes at Turnberry, but ain`t going to help him.
But what is going to hurt him is what -- the impact it`s going to have on a swing state like Florida. I guarantee you that.
REID: Well, Heidi, you know, the Clinton campaign had a press call today. And just about every question on that call had to do with whether or not the phenomenon that you just saw in London, in England, where you had older, whiter voters, more rural voters shock the world by voting to exit, whether that could be replicated here in the U.S. and what the Clinton camp is going to do about it.
Do you have a sense that the campaign is concerned that a similar sort of phenomenon, without the Brexit part of it, but that that demographic phenomenon could actually help Donald Trump beat her in November?
HEIDI PRZYBYLA, "USA TODAY": It`s not just the same demographic phenomenon, but it`s the same political forces, this combustible force of a rejection of globalization, a rejection of immigration policies, trade.
But I think there`s also a sense, in talking with the Clinton people, that we have 136 days until the election, which means that Americans have a chance to see what the aftermath of this is. And here we are not even 24 hours out, and you are reporting on your network about buyer`s remorse. The markets are plunging. The pound is plunging.
So, there`s a sense that Hillary Clinton also has an opportunity with an argument that she`s been making, which is, look, this is not the right example of how to go about this. The right example is to continue for our country to benefit from globalization, but for those spoils to be shared more broadly, for those companies that have been enriching themselves and the richest among us to share them more with the workers.
And if you look at the specifics of her policy details, that`s what she`s been talking about pretty much from the beginning of her campaign. So, depending on how this plays out over the next 136 days, until we have our elections here, there`s also an opportunity for her.
And let`s not forget, these same forces didn`t just power Donald Trump. They powered Bernie Sanders. And right now the polls are showing that those Bernie Sanders voters are coming home to Hillary Clinton. So, that is her challenge, is to keep them where they are.
REID: But, James, I will use a phrase that will be very familiar to you, it`s the economy, stupid. Right?
CARVILLE: Right. Right.
REID: That was the key phrase during the Bill Clinton run -- runs in `92, and `96.
But you have now this weird disconnect where the macroeconomic, the data says that our economy is very good, unemployment low, under 5 percent, the stock market booming, et cetera.
But there was a recent Public Religion/Research International poll that showed that something like seven in 10 Americans still think we`re in a recession. People don`t feel like the economy is as good as the numbers say.
Isn`t there a danger that Hillary Clinton doesn`t have a language to communicate to people both that we`re really not doing that badly, but that she understands that they still feel pain?
CARVILLE: Yes. And I thought her speech in North Carolina was a significant step in the right direction.
Look, there`s been talk that things around the world are happening. If you looked at the last election in Israel, strong nativist feelings there. You look at the toppling of Dilma in Brazil, there was something behind that. Look at the vote in Austria, clearly, where the extreme right-wing party won.
And you look at this, and you see the -- among certain people, there`s a real strong reaction. I think, in the United States, there`s much more reluctance for that kind of thing.
When you stop and you think about it, Trump is really saying he can yank the country back to some glory day that he thinks the country was better. I think that if she continues the path that she`s on in North Carolina, and talks about this kind of stuff, talks about forging the future, as opposed to yanking us back to the past, I think she is going to do great.
But you can`t deny that around the world that there are forces that are reacting to globalization, immigration, a whole kind of range of things. But I also think that we`re different, considerably different in a lot of ways than a lot of other people. And I think she has a chance, as the vice president was pointing out President Lincoln said, to appeal to the better angels. And I`m confident she will do that.
REID: And, Heidi, I`m wondering if you think that this -- what happened in Great Britain changes at all the calculation for Hillary Clinton as to who she wants out there with her making this case on the economy. Does this make the case for Elizabeth Warren a little stronger, the case for a Sherrod Brown a little stronger?
PRZYBYLA: I think it very well may, particularly Elizabeth Warren.
They are going to have a dry run this next week. She -- well, some people view it as a dry run, rather, this week. And it`s no secret that the Hillary Clinton campaign is very much looking at Elizabeth Warren, but also looking at how these tectonic plates are moving.
And I think prior to this vote, they were much -- very much thinking that we`re seeing these Bernie Sanders voters go over. Maybe we don`t have as much of a crisis as we thought.
But if Donald Trump is able to kind of springboard off this, and we see another round of polling which does show some kind of movement, then I think that changes her calculation. And the bottom line is, I talked with her myself last week in an interview, and she said, we`re still on the early process.
I believe her. I don`t think they are going to make a decision any time soon.
REID: And, James, we`re going to draft you back into your advisory role right now. What would you advise the Clinton campaign to do right now to get control of this message before this narrative that, as goes Brexit, so goes the U.S. in November?
CARVILLE: Right.
As I said, I think the North Carolina speech is a very good template. I think it honed in, and that those are the kinds of things that they need to talk about. And also I would add that there has to be a future/past dynamic in this race, and clearly the place where Donald Trump is saying that he`s trying to yank the country back.
Again, I don`t think Trump even understands foreign policy. I know he`s great businessman. But based on what he said about what happened in the U.K., I don`t think he much understands what the ramifications of this are, because to a lot of people here in this country, this is not that great of news, to tell you the truth.
But he`s just out there flailing away on everything. So, let him go.
REID: Yes.
CARVILLE: But I think there will be a lot of direct mail in Florida.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: With golf course pictures on it, exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
REID: Donald Trump cares more about Turnberry than about you.
CARVILLE: If you have a golf course in Florida, you`re not going to do too well. If you have one in Scotland, it`s good for you.
REID: Yes, pretty much.
CARVILLE: So, he can have the Scot vote. We will take the Florida vote.
REID: Put it on a bumper sticker.
All right, James Carville, thank you very much.
CARVILLE: Thank you.
REID: Heidi Przybyla, thank you both. All right.
And coming up: Just what does the Brexit mean for you and your money? CNBC`s Ron Insana breaks down what stock sell-offs mean for 401(k)s here in the U.S. And that`s next.
This is HARDBALL, the place for politics.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MILISSA REHBERGER, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Milissa Rehberger. Here`s what`s happening.
At least 20 are dead and thousands are without power in West Virginia as massive floods sweep across that state. Parts of West Virginia received roughly nine inches of rainfall. A state of emergency was declared in 44 counties.
Wildfires continue to rage across Kern County, California. Two people are reported dead and at least 100 structures are destroyed. The fire is estimated at nearly 19,000 acres.
And President Obama designates New York`s Stonewall Inn as the first national monument honoring LGBT rights. In 1969, a police raid at the tavern inspired the modern day gay rights movement -- back to HARDBALL.
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REID: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
That was the closing bell at the New York Stock Exchange. U.S. stocks tumbled, with the Dow closing 610 points down, after Britain blindsided markets by voting to leave the E.U. Global stock markets lost about $2 trillion in value today, while the British pound posted its largest one- year day fall ever.
So, with such an immediate economic impact, what does this mean for your nest egg?
Joining me now is CNBC senior analyst Ron Insana.
And, Ron, I stayed up with you very late last night watching this whole thing unfold. And you were really terrific.
RON INSANA, CNBC ANALYST: Oh, thank you.
REID: And I think, when people look at the freefall of the British pound, the first thing a lot of Americans who travel think is, oh, I can get to Britain and it`s really cheap for me.
INSANA: Yes.
REID: What are the upsides and what are the downsides for Americans right now?
INSANA: Well, that is one of the upsides, is that if the British pound were to fall even farther than it did last night -- and it fell to the lowest level we have seen since 1985 -- it makes that particular travel plan that much less expensive.
You could -- it also makes London real estate less expensive. The Federal Reserve is unlikely to raise interest rates, given the economic uncertainties on the rise from this. So, it means mortgage rates are now sitting near record lows once again.
So, if you`re in the process of buying a house, you can lock in. If you`re trying to refinance, you will get a favorable rate. Those are the positives. They are relatively mild, I should point out, though, at least in the longer run, compared to the potential negatives that could come out of the U.K.`s decision to break with the European Union.
REID: And I think that is the point we want to get to, because there are a lot of people who may take this really sort of lightly, right, that the -- Britain leaving the E.U. may do some things to the pound, but they`re not sure it`s going to hurt America consumers, but also the global economy.
Tell us the grim picture. Just give it to us straight. What will be the fallout from the Brexit?
INSANA: All right, so the real fear, the ultimate fear is that the U.K. pulls out, Scotland secedes from the U.K. in order to join the E.U.
Then Northern Ireland does something. Then the Dutch decide they want to pull out. Then the French do. Then the Italians, the Spanish, and the Portuguese all want to pull out. The European Union dissolves. You have economic chaos, a recession,a big recession in Europe that is going to be very difficult to fight with standard policy tools that spreads around the world and also affects us here in the U.S. and throws us back into recession.
That`s the real fear. That`s why the markets, number one, were so surprised by the outcome, but, two, reacted so violently as they did overnight and all day today here at home.
REID: And is this a time when people who are nearing retirement or thinking about retirement should start worrying about their 401(k)s?
INSANA: Well, this really depends on time horizon, absolutely depends on time horizon.
If you are near an exit point, this is a juncture at which you`re supposed to be taking money out of the equity markets, stock markets, and putting into bonds, although bonds yield so little, it`s been very hard for people to live off the interest payments they get from let`s say a 10-year Treasury note, which only yields 1.5 percent.
So, some near-retirees have been forced stay in the stock market and buy dividend-yielding stocks like utilities and take stock market risks, which normally wouldn`t be appropriate. So, there is kind of a double bind here. It`s very hard to just pull out of stock market, but, again, if you need the money right now, you should have never been in, in the first place. And you have been buying that down over time.
So, it really -- the contrast to this is, if you have five, 10, 20 years, this is a blip. You just starting buying more of your favorite stocks and continue to load up. This may be with us for a while, but for a long-term investor, this will ultimately prove to be a buying opportunity.
REID: Ron Insana, always so helpful getting us to understand this stuff. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it.
INSANA: Thank you, Joy.
REID: All right.
And up next: back to this 2016 presidential campaign here in the U.S. and a new revelation from Senator Bernie Sanders about his vote in November.
You`re watching HARDBALL, the place for politics.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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QUESTION: Are you going to vote for Hillary Clinton in November?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (VT-I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes. Yes.
I think the issue right here is, I`m going to do everything I can to defeat Donald Trump. I`m pretty good at arithmetic. And what I know is that Hillary Clinton has more pledged delegates than I do and she has a lot more superdelegates than I do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
That was Bernie Sanders on "MORNING JOE" saying he will vote for Hillary Clinton in November. But Sanders isn`t conceding the Democratic contest or getting off the campaign trail. Sanders says he`s fighting for a stronger Democratic platform.
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QUESTION: Senator, if you have accepted the arithmetic of the race, and you realize that she`s likely to become the nominee, why not withdraw from the race?
SANDERS: Why would I want to do that, when I want to fight to make sure that we have the best platform that we possibly can, that we win the most delegates that we can, and that we transform -- the goal of our campaign was to transform this nation.
We have talked -- we are in discussions, frankly, with the Clinton camp. And it would be of no great shock to you that we want from them is to be very, very strong on a number of issues.
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REID: So, what does this non-endorsement endorsement mean? And is his slowly losing his leverage with the Clinton campaign?
Let`s bring in the HARDBALL roundtable.
Jamil Smith is senior national correspondent for MTV News. Catherine Rampell is an opinion writer with "The Washington Post." And "The Washington Post"`s Jonathan Capehart is an MSNBC political analyst.
All right, I already know how you feel, Jonathan.
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REID: I`m going to turn to this side of the table.
It`s up to you, Jamil.
Does Bernie Sanders actually need to endorse Hillary Clinton? And I say that to say, the things he wants to do, do they really require him to say, I`m with her, or could he just be a force to go out there and attack Donald Trump?
JAMIL SMITH, MTV NEWS: I think he does need to endorse her, because it`s the only way you`re going to stop Donald Trump in November is by electing Hillary Clinton.
Look, I think that, frankly, he`s wasting a lot of time at the moment. I think he`s never going to have this kind of platform again. He`s never going to run for president again. And so when I look, it`s -- when I see him doing this, I see really kind of a wishy-washy expression of support. I don`t really -- you`re going to vote for her, but then it`s not an endorsement. What is it exactly? What is it? Is it actually an expression of support? What are you trying to get across to your supporters?
CATHERINE RAMPELL, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": That sounds a little bit like what some of the Republicans have been saying about their non-endorsement endorsements of Trump, in fact.
REID: But, see, is it the same, though?
Because, in the case of Republicans -- and I was tweeting about this last night, not that my Twitter accounts matters -- but that it`s one thing to say, our principles are similar, I`m going to vote for her, but I just don`t want to endorse her, and saying, his principles are repellant to me but I`m going to vote for him. Are those two very different things?
RAMPELL: Yes, they are very different things and Bernie Sanders wants to mover Hillary Clinton more towards the left. I think he`s basically given up the fact he has very little bargaining power given that he said he will endorse her. He doesn`t really have that much leverage. All of the -- you know, never -- the Bernie or bust, never Hillary supporters have basically loosened up. You look at the polls. There are anti-Hillary sentiments.
So, it doesn`t seem like he has all that much leverage to make a difference at this point. I don`t entirely understand why he`s sticking around.
REID: What do you think he does at the convention? What can he still contribute at this point? Because he still has 13 million people who voted for him. What can he do?
JONATHAN CAPEHART, THE WASHINGTON POST: Look, Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. This is why he was so grudging in -- he`s not going to give an endorsement. He`s only come to the Democratic Party because he could get attention by running in the Democratic Party, and also, the Democrats are closer to where he is compared to the Republicans.
So, if he holds his nose and goes into the voting booth, and votes for Hillary Clinton, that`s fine. The idea -- I agree with you, Jamil -- that he absolutely must come out there and give a full throated endorsement of Hillary Clinton. Otherwise, she`s going to go on the campaign trail with Republicans saying, look, her own party can`t unite behind her.
And also, I keep coming back to the fact that Bernie Sanders isn`t a Democrat, because real Democrats, when they lose the primaries by 3 million votes, lose out on pledge delegates and super delegates, what do they do? They rally around the nominee because that is the focus. The nominee is the focus.
Bernie Sanders is not focused on the nominee. He`s focused on his political revolution that is three million votes short of Hillary Clinton. What are you going to do with those people? You got to mobilize them to do something and helping to elect Hillary Clinton should be priority one.
REID: Yes. To that point, Bernie Sanders said that he wants Hillary Clinton to move closer to his views on policy issues, let`s listen.
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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would like Hillary Clinton to say public colleges and universities can be tuition free. Can we do other things? Yes, we can. I would like to see Hillary Clinton move us closer. If she`s not going to adopt my view of a Medicare for all, single-payer program, I know that. But I would like to see her goal a lot further than she has in making sure that we`re moving toward a day in the very near future where all of our people. Health care is a right not a privilege.
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REID: Is there any reason why Hillary Clinton would say I beat you with my program, but I will go ahead and adopt parts of your program. The most sort of prominent parts of the Bernie Sanders platform. Is there any incentive for Hillary Clinton to do that at this point?
JAMIL SMITH, MTV NEWS SR. CORRESPONDENT: I don`t think there is, frankly. I mean, you see a lot of, as Catherine mentioned, a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters, a majority of them are planning to support Hillary Clinton in the fall. In fact, the MTV survey that we did, 57 percent of millineals, ages 18 to 34 said that they`re going to support Hillary Clinton in the fall. And that really, 30 percent of them are going to vote for Trump.
REID: That doesn`t mean they are motivated to vote for her.
SMITH: No, that may be the case. But at the same time, you don`t really need too much more motivation. There`s one choice to make. It`s Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump.
RAMPELL: I would argue it could potentially hurt Hillary Clinton if she latches onto Bernie Sanders platform. Not because of the substance of the platform necessarily. I do think there are a lot of these voters who could be motivated to go because they want a more liberal candidate but it plays into these -- more character based stereotypes of her as pandering and --
REID: Flip-flopping.
RAMPELL: -- flip-flopping as being inauthentic. She has come out against these many of these policies and has offered reason explanations for why she doesn`t support Medicare-for-all, why she doesn`t support $15 minimum wage, free college, for example. If she turns on dime, and says, you know, he was right --
REID: Yes, it`s not going to --
RAMPELL: It`s not going to help her.
REID: Very tough sale. All right. The roundtable is staying with me here.
And still ahead, is Lindsay Lohan the voice of reason? The actress was tweeting off warnings of Brexit consequences. What she had to say, coming up next.
This is HARDBALL, the place for politics.
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REID: It`s state that went for Obama in 2008 and Mitt Romney in 2012. How will North Carolina go in 2016?
Let`s check out the HARDBALL scoreboard. According to a new PPP poll, Donald Trump is ahead by just two points. It`s Trump, 48, Clinton, 46. That`s within the margin of error, in North Carolina.
We`ll be right back.
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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I really do see a parallel between what`s happening in the United States and what`s happening here. People want to see borders. They don`t necessarily want people pouring into their country that they don`t know who they are and where they come from. They have no idea. And I think, you know, not only did it win, but it won by a much bigger margin that people thought I would. It`s always the will of the people. Ultimately, that wins out.
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REID: That was Donald Trump today in Scotland drawing parallels on the vote on Brexit and his own campaign for the presidency here in United States.
So, what are the implications of what`s going on in the United Kingdom and our own 2016 politics here at home?
We`re back with HARDBALL roundtable, Jamil, Catherine and Jonathan.
I`ll come to you, first, Catherine. You know, the Clinton campaign is being very adamant about saying the United States and Britain are different. The same forces that sort of swept in the Brexit vote there would not necessarily sweep in Donald Trump here.
Are they right?
RAMPELL: I would hope that Americans would watch and learn from what`s happened in the U.K. from what happens when you cast a vote based on revenge, based on saying F-U to the establishment, to the elites, to the experts and say, look, when you do that, when you vote based on emotion and revenge, then global financial panic results and learn from that.
I`m not so optimistic that we will have learned from that. I think, in fact, these recent results could hurt Clinton`s chances and help Trump`s chances because they could weigh on the American economy.
REID: Right.
RAMPELL: And as a result, if you have a downturn in the American economy or even just an even slower growth than what we`ve seen before already, that hurts the incumbent party that`s running for the presidency. So, in that respect -- I don`t know that necessarily that Americans will learn from what`s happened abroad, but this might actually sway their vote in a different way.
CAPEHART: Well, I would add to what you`re saying is, what`s happening in Great Britain right now is United Kingdom is so unexpected, so shocking, to everyone, that I think it makes the American election even more important. If Great Britain is unstable, then everyone`s going to look to the United States to be the rational actor here and vote for someone who is not unhinged, who`s not racist, who`s not saying things at 9:00 a.m. who then contradicts them at 5:00 p.m.
So, to your point, people have to look at what`s happening over there and realizing that we always --
RAMPELL: There are consequences.
CAPEHART: There are consequences. We always say we`re the last, best hope for the world, and peace, stability. Well, this election and what happened, that election in Brexit, the election we have now, that is proof. November is proof.
REID: And I do wonder if this mounting instability across Europe, if this sweeps into France, if this becomes a more unstable world, if that actually kind of helps Hillary Clinton. Especially since about, like two weeks ago, Donald Trump didn`t know what Brexit was.
SMITH: Right. And you see Marine Le Pen in France already calling for a similar vote in their country. So, I think when you see this kind of cultural resentment, this anger building up, I think it`s a warning to American voters, frankly, that they need to get out in November and make sure that they can prevent the same thing from happening here.
REID: And I wonder if the Clinton campaign now starts to look at Elizabeth Warren a little closer, starts to think about how she can make a message that will counteract people`s economic anxiety. Do you think she`s done a good enough job of that? And does she need to shore it up with her V.P. pick? Or think about the immigration piece of what happened overseas and think a little more about having someone on her ticket --
RAMPELL: Well, there`s certainly populist anxiety here as there was in the U.K. And the way that was exercised in the U.K. was through a more xenophobic, anti-establishment response. People were upset, they felt like they had been left behind, their incomes stagnated, and they turned against immigrants. They turned against the elites.
The question is, is there more inclusive liberal ticket that we can have here that harnesses those anxieties and rather than giving them over to the more xenophobic fringe that says, actually the left wing has a response to this, can make your lives better, without turning against your neighbor.
REID: Yes, absolutely. Well, indeed, one of the more fervent supporters of the U.K. remaining in the European Union who watched the results play out and ranted on Twitter was actress Lindsay Lohan who`s living in London. Her tweets have been deleted but one read, markets remain, peace, one love, free trade. Good luck with the pound, we`ll take you about 60 years to get it back up, remain instead.
So, you know, we kind of laughed, Johnson, about Lindsay Lohan tweeting about this, nobody could understand why she got involved. But there is this question of whether outside influence on what the Brits had to do made people more want to leave that they felt all these elites and celebrities and President Obama all telling us to remain, and there might have been an anti-establishment piece to the vote itself.
CAPEHART: I mean, that very well could be, because it seems like from everything I`ve read and Catherine and I were talking about earlier, there was this reaction against the experts. I don`t believe your experts. Sort of reminiscent of the 2011 debt ceiling debate.
RAMPELL: Or even touting the fact that the experts were on the other side. There was a debate a few weeks ago where one of the MPs who was one of the leaders of the leave campaign, he was asked, can you name a single independent economic organization that supports leaving the E.U.?
And he said, well, I can`t but I`m proud of that, because I think -- I`m paraphrasing, but something to the effect of -- I think this country has had enough of experts.
REID: Oh, dear. That`s always a great idea.
The roundtable staying with us. And up next, these three will tell me something I don`t know.
You`re watching HARDBALL, the place for politics.
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REID: And we are back with the HARDBALL roundtable.
All right. Jamil, tell me something I don`t know.
SMITH: Well, my hometown Cleveland Cavaliers are the NBA champs -- oh, we already knew that.
REID: We knew that.
SMITH: Just like to tell everybody. On research on MTV, we found one common thread between Clinton and Trump supporters who are millennials, and that is gun control. Ninety-five percent of Clinton supporters who are between the ages of 18 to 34 support mandatory background checks, 97 percent of Trump supporters within that age group agree with that.
REID: Do you think -- does it feel there`s a sea change that we`re seeing a shift in the gun debate where there`s more fervor on the gun reform side now?
SMITH: I think so, but the things NRA still has that grip on Congress. Until we have fewer Republicans in Congress, none of this will move anywhere.
REID: It`s generational too. They don`t have a grip on young people.
All right. Catherine, tell me something I don`t know.
RAMPELL: All right. So, I would say forget the tanking of the pound, forget the tanking of stock markets. Potentially, the most damaging fallout from Brexit is it could screw up British soccer.
REID: Oh, dear. How?
RAMPELL: Because the home office has pretty strict requirements for who can get work permits to work on premier league teams. If you are foreign, which has generally meant non-E.U. They have like 100 people right now who are playing soccer in the U.K. professionally who, if now they`re considered foreign because they`re non-British, they would not qualify.
REID: Jonathan, tell me something I don`t know.
CAPEHART: So, the 47th gay pride parade in New York City kicks off on Sunday. Today, the president of the United States announced that the Stonewall Inn, where the Stonewall riots happened, that kicked off the modern LGBT civil rights movement, will become a national monument. The stonewall Inn and the Christopher Park, which is directly across the street, plus the surrounding streets and sidewalks, 7.7 acres, will become a national park.
The announcement today is significant because when that parade, the parade goes down Fifth Avenue, cuts across, goes onto Christopher Street. The parade for the first time in history will march through a national monument. The official ceremony is Monday.
REID: That`s amazing. I think this president when he was elected, everyone thought of implications with a African-American, sort of historical moment. The LGBT advancement during this presidency I think will be a huge part of his legacy.
CAPEHART: With four straight black men who are responsible for it happening.
REID: Absolutely.
All right. Thank you, Jamil Smith, Catherine Rampell, and Jonathan Capehart -- thank you very much. That`s HARDBALL for now. Thanks for being with us.
"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.
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