Hardball with Chris Matthews, Transcript 1/7/2016

John Feehery, Steve McMahon

Date: January 7, 2016
Guest: John Feehery, Steve McMahon

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: The battle of Lake Champlain.

Let`s play HARDBALL.

Good evening. It`s Chris Matthews in Washington.

Tonight, Donald Trump is in Burlington, Vermont, doing what he does best,
orchestrating great political razzmatazz. The Republican front-runner is
set to take the stage any moment now at the Flynn Center for the Performing
Arts up there. He`s chosen the bluest of blue states on the East Coast,
Bernie Sanders`s home turf, in fact, to build the ballyhoo.

His campaign issued 20,000 tickets tonight for a venue which seats fewer
than 1,500 seats. That move, an old advance man`s trick, annoyed the
city`s police chief, who warned of public safety concerns tonight.

Well, crowds lined up for hours already to get inside. You`re looking at
that crowd already. Meanwhile, across the street, hundreds of anti-Trump
protesters, no surprise, are demonstrating. What we don`t know yet, but
we`ll soon find out, is how many anti-Trump protesters will get inside the
actual rally perhaps to disrupt the whole show.

P.T. Barnum once said, If you want a crowd, start a fight, and that`s
exactly what Trump is doing, bringing the political circus to the town of
his chief enemy.

Well, we`re covering the spectacle for the first – actually, the next two
hours tonight here on MSNBC. Chris Hayes is up in Burlington already.
He`ll join us in just a moment. Katy Tur is just outside the theater and
joins me right not.

Katy Tur, give us a sense as this battle as it begins to roil.

KATY TUR, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Hi. It`s interesting. You know, as you
said, he handed out 20,000 free tickets to this event that can only hold
about 1,400 people. We started seeing people line up for it as early as
4:30 this morning. The first guy in line got her at 4:30. It was 15
degrees out. He wasn`t wearing a hat, by the way.

But he said he was here because he wanted to hear what Donald Trump had to
say. I asked him if he was a fan or a supporter. And he said, no, he was
actually a Bernie supporter, but he wanted to hear what Donald Trump had to
say because maybe he would switch sides.

That being said, there were a number of Donald Trump supporters in line,
also a number of Donald Trump protesters in line. And because of that, the
campaign got word of it, and we`ve been hearing that they`ve been turning
away people at the door unless they affirm that they are here to support
Donald Trump.

I spoke with one of those people. His name is Tim Farr (ph). And he said
he`d been waiting since 10:00 AM this morning only to be turned away. I
said, Do you think it was fair? I mean, it`s a small venue. You`re a
Bernie Sanders supporter. Why do you expect to be let in? He said, Well,
if it was a Bernie Sanders event, then he believes he would be let in.

That being said, these people are still waiting in line. Many of them have
been waiting in line for hours. And at some point, the Trump campaign is
going to have to tell a great number of people that they cannot get into
this theater because as I said, only 1,400 people can get inside. So
there`s going to be some disappointed folks here in probably just a matter
of minutes – Chris.

MATTHEWS: Well, Katy, how many bouncers can you spot, or thugs, or
whatever you want to call them? Because I have watched and you`ve watched
– this guy always has somebody go up there, whether it`s Jorge Ramos or
somebody, talking out of turn, as he sees it. And all of a sudden, some
big guys show up and haul them out of the room.

It looks to me – if you`ve got 20,000 people showing up and 1 in 100 are
Bernie people, you`re going to have to have a lot of bouncers. Your

KATY: Not necessarily. They have Secret Service here, and they`re all
going through magnetometers. So when they go through, they are – the line
is dwindling down significantly. So there is that time to ask people one
by one, which is probably why this line is being held up, but certainly not
necessarily that they`re going to need more people than they normally have
at any of their rallies.

Most of the rallies, Chris, are thousands of people large, 10,000, 5,000,
20,000 at times. So they do already have a pretty have a pretty large

I will say, as you referred to earlier, the police chief in this town was
certainly not happy about this. They said that it`s creating a public
nuisance. It can be dangerous, said is this – this is Burlington,
Vermont. If this were a Fish rally…


TUR: … and they give away 20,000 free tickets to a 1,400-seat venue,
then they would have canceled it. Because – but because it`s a political
rally and because this is Bernie Sanders home town, they didn`t want to
seem like they were favoring any one over the other, so they`re letting
this pass.

When they did reach out to the campaign, I`m told by them, the campaign
wasn`t very responsive. They just went silent saying, saying, basically,
that, You`re going to have to deal with the overflow. It`s not our
problem. Our problem is for those who go inside. They said they will be
incurring some overtime costs, but they do plan on billing the Trump
campaign for that.

MATTHEWS: OK, thank you so much, Katy Tur, who`s outside.

My colleague, Chris Hayes, host of “ALL IN,” is in Vermont. He`s at a pub
and brewery in Burlington right now. Nice place to be. I guess, Chris,
that they`re checking for if you are a Muslim or not before they let you in
tonight. I would think that would be an appropriate decision by his

Your thought. How many troublemakers would you say are going to get in
there tonight?

CHRIS HAYES, HOST, “ALL IN”: Well, I don`t – we are here at the Vermont
Pub and Brew. There are – you know, it was interesting. When I was out
at that line today, I would say the line was about, this morning even,
50/50 – 50 percent Trump supporters, 50 percent folks who were either
Trump opponents or just pretty much there for the spectacle.

I mean, frankly, there was a lot of college kids who had just come out to
see what all the hubbub was about. And that`s been part of the Trump
phenomenon the whole time – very, very clever, very well done. So you`ve
got a situation where the spectacle is itself part of the draw.

But listen, a lot of the folks I talked to – that guy, one of the people
that Katy Tur talked to, a guy named – fellow by the name of Tim, who`s a
Bernie Sanders supporter – you know, he told me, Look, I actually want to
hear the guy speak. I mean, there were people there who weren`t
necessarily Trump supporters but who also weren`t going in to cause
mischief. They wanted to go in because they wanted hear what`s going on.

And you know, plus the other thing – the final thing I`d say, Chris – you
know, you and I, you know, we cover these campaigns. This is a snapshot of
the fact that, you know, other states – it would be nice if Iowa and New
Hampshire didn`t get to have all the fun, right? I mean, part of what`s so
exciting for folks here is they – this is the sort of thing that never
happens here. So this is – this is very exciting to get a kind of New
Hampshire atmosphere, you know, a few weeks before voting starts.

MATTHEWS: OK, give me a little smell of the place. I know Burlington.
I`ve have been there in the summertime. I love the place. It`s sort of
Berkeley East. It`s right on that beautiful Lake Champlain, that deep,
cold lake out there that`s so historic from the French and Indian War.

Tell me about the culture you`re in right now, that barroom. Is it all
Bernie-land? What is it like?

HAYES: Yes It`s – well, yes. I mean, basically, it`s Bernie-land. I
mean, look, you know, this is a place that was a rural – was a small
outpost in a rural state in the 1970s. You got all these folks who moved
up here, part of the kind of back-to-landers. Bernie Sanders was one of
them, graduates from the University of Chicago, comes out here. You got
folks from all over. And that culture still infuses the place.

I mean, you know, this is a place that has strong liberal-left politics,
that still has them. The state has changed from once being a Republican
state to being…


HAYES: … a deep, deep blue state. But you know, you still got – I
talked to people tonight. I mean, I talked to a bunch of people in there.
You still got rural Republicans here in this state who are excited to have
a night when they can come out and see Donald Trump. They feel like they
lived their life surrounded by Bernie Sanders socialists.

MATTHEWS: Well, you got a big night coming up at 8:00 o`clock for you.
Chris Hayes, thank you. We`ll be watching you and “ALL IN” from that pub
at 8:00 o`clock.

Joining me right now is Heidi Przybyla of “USA TODAY,” former chair of the
Republican National Committee and MSNBC political analyst – your name`s
getting longer than Howard Fineman – Michael Steele.


MATTHEWS: And Sabrina Siddiqui of “The Guardian.” Let me start with
Sabrina back and forth. This is a great cultural event because you`ve got
the Donald – a phrase I don`t like – but Donald Trump going in and great
political theater.

It reminded me of George, Sr., George Bush bringing his boat into Boston
harbor to humiliate Michael Dukakis, and the old advance man`s trick,
bringing a bigger crowd to a smaller place and creating combustion.

SABRINA SIDDIQUI, “THE GUARDIAN”: Absolutely. And this has been the
pillar of Donald Trump`s campaign from the beginning is to generate
headlines, to be the center of attention, to be the showman. And he knows
exactly how to orchestrate the media, exactly how to create buzz around
every move that he makes.

And I think that, you know, in terms of him being in Bernie territory,
aside from the fact that they`re both appealing to this grass roots
movement, there`s very little similarity, though, it`s important to say,
when it comes to the two as far as substance is concerned.

But look, I think as Chris was saying over there, a lot of people are going
to turn up. A lot of people just want to see the show. And it`s unclear
how many of these people are actual Trump supporters as much as being drawn
to the celebrity and the spectacle of it all.

MATTHEWS: And the old Vermonters – they`re not the flat-landers from


MATTHEWS: They`re the people that grew up, the old Yankees – they`re
probably, Whoa! Excitement in the town tonight!

exciting opportunity. Look, this has – this has been Trump for seven
months, and this is what the rest of the field can`t deal with. They can`t
draw this kind of energy. They can`t draw it out of the party. They can`t
draw it out of rank-and-file Americans across the country who are watching
this spectacle.

And the sense that everybody wants to participate and be a part of it is
what makes Trump so magnetic, which is why right now, this is his field to
run. The table is his to take right through Iowa and beyond. And if this
is the kind of energy he`s generating, man, man, this is going to be…

MATTHEWS: You know…


MATTHEWS: … except for him, the only other topic in this campaign is
which Republican candidates are wearing high heels.


MATTHEWS: I`m not kidding. You know, it`s about the Cuban heels of Rubio
or the Cuban heels of the boots…

STEELE: Right.

MATTHEWS: … the boots of – of Cruz. Who cares!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it`s certainly not…

MATTHEWS: They are all trying to measure up, literally, to Donald Trump
with their various shoe wear. And that`s about it, about the noise level.
Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, what we`re missing here is that this is
actually a strategic spectacle because if you look at the numbers, OK, all
those early voting states and the early of (ph) March are all Southern
states. Donald Trump, basically, I think by your own NBC polling, has a
lot of those locked up.

What are the other states that are in that tranche? Massachusetts,
Vermont. And he has a real shot…


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has – yes. He has a real shot of winning in
Vermont. He`s in the lead, 32 percent.

MATTHEWS: Because the presumption is he`s going to win the big states,
like Michigan, Pennsylvania…

STEELE: Right.


MATTHEWS: … the sort of the big cosmopolitan states.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is about the big mo, Chris, as they call it,


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He goes into the heart of crunchy, granola Vermont…


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: … and he shows what a big…

MATTHEWS: Ben and Jerry`s…


MATTHEWS: Let me – Ben and Jerry`s. Let me ask you, Mr. Chairman – Mr.
Chairman from that Southern base Republican Party…


MATTHEWS: … let me ask you this. Does this guy now got a 1 in 3 chance
of winning? Has he got as good a chance as Mr. Cruz or Mr. Rubio?

STEELE: Of getting the nomination?


STEELE: Oh, it`s 50 percent easy.

MATTHEWS: He`s got…


STEELE: Oh, it`s easy (INAUDIBLE)

MATTHEWS: For him alone. So he`s got a better shot than anybody else.

STEELE: You tell me, Chris – and I`ve asked this question – who takes
him out and when do they do it? I mean, because this – he has held this
for seven months. You mean to tell me that 40 percent-plus that he`s got
is going to go to the polls and go, I`m not going to vote for him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that`s the question, right? Are people
actually going to turn up to caucus? And I will say, I was at a rally of
his in my state (INAUDIBLE) before the Republican debate, and you talk to a
lot of supporters on the ground and they were, like, What caucus? We don`t
think he needs us to do that. Does he really need us to caucus? What is
that? What can…


MATTHEWS: Well, he`s got three weeks to tell them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s got three weeks to tell them, though. He does
have a formidable, apparently, ground operation in both Iowa and New

MATTHEWS: He has to do what Obama did. He`s got to bring the outsiders on
the inside, right?

STEELE: Right. Exactly.

MATTHEWS: He`s got to do – he`s has to have people to show up who never
did before.

PRZYBYLA: Sabrina`s right, too. It`s not just being aware of the
caucuses, but it`s being the most committed voter because you can`t just go
to the caucuses, cast a ballot and leave. You`re going to going to be
there for a couple hours.


MATTHEWS: … the question is, are they physically ready mobilize

STEELE: That`s it.

MATTHEWS: … and go to a place they`ve…

STEELE: That`s going to be the test.


MATTHEWS: … never been before? That`s why young people are always a
problem in voting because they haven`t been to that voting booth before.
They haven`t gone down to that community center and voted.

STEELE: Right.

MATTHEWS: Anyway, attempting to slam both Clintons, Donald Trump tried to
tie together – now, this is dirty pool, many would say – a variety of
scandals in this one Instagram video today. Talk about rotten, but here it
comes. Here it comes.


Women`s rights are human rights and human rights are women`s rights, once
and for all. Let`s keep fighting for opportunity and dignity.


MATTHEWS: Well, you caught all the bad guys, Anthony Weiner, Bill Cosby,
Bill Clinton, they`re all on that list.

Anyway, NBC`s Kristen Welker caught up with former President Clinton on the
campaign trail out in Iowa today and asked him directly whether he was –
that`s a nice way to put it – concerned.


KRISTEN WELKER, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump is again today making an
issue of your past transgressions. Do you want to respond? And are you
worried that your past could hurt your wife`s campaign?

response. If he wins the Republican nomination, we`ll have plenty of time
to talk about it (INAUDIBLE) I think it`s – I have no interest in getting
involved in their politics or doing anything (INAUDIBLE) Hillary.


MATTHEWS: So does that work, Michael?


MATTHEWS: If they don`t know (INAUDIBLE)

STEELE: Hello? He has effectively inoculated himself against any, you
know, charge about – from Hillary`s campaign or Hillary herself about when
his – you know…

MATTHEWS: No, no. I`m saying I think as – but Bill Clinton, I`m asking.
Can Bill Clinton keep saying, the former president, No comment?

STEELE: No. No. I think…

MATTHEWS: He`s doing it.

STEELE: Well, right now because there isn`t a constant drumbeat. It`s
just been one (INAUDIBLE) beats.

MATTHEWS: OK. Heidi, today in “The Washington Post,” which is not as
liberal as everybody always says it is, has a full article in there by
Karen Tumulty repeating every single Bill Clinton event, every one of them,
all of them, all of them.


MATTHEWS: Even the ones we on NBC haven`t talked about lately. All of

PRZYBYLA: We all knew this was going to happen.


MATTHEWS: … Trump, as Michael has said, has exploded it all back to the
surface. He`s detonated all the old stories.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In some ways, you could argue it`s better to get it
out now, right?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: … because you knew that this was going to happen.

MATTHEWS: So the Clinton are happy this is happening…


SIDDIQUI: One of the things Republicans are worried about – and Heidi had
a piece on this, too, but you know, this actually is – could help Hillary
Clinton. It makes her seem more sympathetic. The polling – this

MATTHEWS: Yes, I know that argument. Do you buy it?

SIDDIQUI: Well, I do buy it. She could potentially have women rally
around her. I know Republicans…

MATTHEWS: Because?

SIDDIQUI: … have had their own polling…

MATTHEWS: They`re concerned or offended by what?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: May I cite some data here to back this up?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: … was if you look at the biggest spikes in Hillary
Clinton`s favorability rating over the lifetime of her career in the public
eye, one of the spikes…


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Exactly. When was that? That was the year that
the Lewinsky scandal broke. So…


MATTHEWS: Even though she is the one who`s the victim of his behavior,
people feel that using his misbehavior against her is a double whammy
against her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it`s the language, too. We went over this the
other day, the “enabler” language. I talked to a number of GOP women, as
well, who say, Look, we don`t love Hillary, but we don`t want to help her,
either, and we they think this helps her.

MATTHEWS: OK. And by the way, nobody thinks – nobody thinks that Hillary
knew about Monica before that story broke. Nobody believes that. Nobody
is saying – anyway, Donald Trump was asked – do you think somebody
believes that?

STEELE: No. You said nobody`s saying, so we were acknowledging that

MATTHEWS: OK. Good. Anyway, Donald Trump was asked about your article
today and that sentiment. Here he is.


they`re saying, but I was attacked and I said, How could they attack me
when he`s got one of the worst records in history with – you know, with
all he`s gone through? So I hit them pretty hard.

And maybe they won`t be attacking me anymore because, you know, I am – I
am somebody that has great respect for women, believe me, and I`ll do a
great job – far better for women than Hillary will ever do for women.

I certainly can tone it down. There`s no question about that.


MATTHEWS: So he`s pulling back if they pull back.


STEELE: He`s lobbed a grenade. He`s not going to…

MATTHEWS: OK, let me…


MATTHEWS: … whether Hillary Clinton or any of her people have attacked
Trump as a sexist since this started.



MATTHEWS: So they did shut up.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they did shut up, but I don`t think he`s pulling
his punches because the same day he said that, he put out the Instagram ad.

MATTHEWS: And it`s pretty rough.


MATTHEWS: … the Cosby connection, I don`t know because (INAUDIBLE) Cosby
was a Clinton supporter. OK. What`s the Anthony Weiner – oh, yes, Huma`s

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I find it hard to believe that Donald Trump has never
been photographed with Bill Cosby before (INAUDIBLE) go and find that.


MATTHEWS: I think President Bush gave him the Medal of Honor. That
picture`s available. Right?

STEELE: But this – but this is effective campaigning. This is – this is
doing something – a non-political actor is augmenting the political game
here and he`s taking it to some of the consummate political players in the

MATTHEWS: OK. Well, you`ve given us a lot of verdict here tonight,
Michael. I know. Heidi, Michael, Sabrina – they`re sticking with us.

And when we come back, we`re going to take a deeper look at what the Trump
supporters have in common with the Sanders crowd. We`ve got two
strategists, one on the right, one on the left. And we`re going to wait
for Donald Trump, the Republican front-runner, to take the stage up in
Burlington, Vermont.

And this is HARDBALL, the place for politics.


MATTHEWS: Well, we`re awaiting that Donald Trump rally up in Burlington,
Vermont, right now, the heart of Bennie – actually, I was going to Ben and
Jerry`s country – the heart of Bernie Sanders country. We`re going to
bring it to you live when it happens any minute now. And we`ll continue
our in-depth look at the phenomenon of Donald Trump himself.

HARDBALL back after this.


MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. We continue to wait for Donald Trump
to take the stage up in Burlington, Vermont, the city where fellow
presidential candidate Bernie Sanders once served as mayor of that city.
Vermont is Bernie Sanders country, of course, but Trump has made it clear
he thinks he can pick up, or pick off, if you will, Sanders supporters.

Trump recently tweeted: “I see wacko Bernie Sanders allies coming over to
me, because I`m lowering taxes, while he will double and triple them. A

Trump`s has real crossover appeal, apparently. “The New York Times”
reports that – quote – “Trump`s very best voters are self-identified
Republicans who nonetheless are registered now as Democrats.”

Sound like Reagan Democrats. Anyway, “The New York Times” is also
reporting that there`s a coalition of Trump supporters trying to persuade
Democrats to ditch and switch to go to Trump.

Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders is rallying his troops to pick off Trump`s base
of angry working-class whites. The Sanders campaign has canvassers on the
campaign trail right now armed with this script – quote – “A lot of
people feel like this country isn`t working for them, because it`s not.
The solution is not to turn to someone like Trump with a message of hate,
xenophobia, and division. It`s to elect a leader with integrity like

I am joined right now by two political veterans and strategists, Republican
strategist John Feehery and Democratic strategist Steve McMahon.

Let me go to Steve McMahon first on this. How does Bernie get Trump votes?

STEVE MCMAHON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I mean, Bernie basically is
appealing to the Trump voter in the same way that Trump is trying to appeal
to the Bernie Sanders voter.

They are disaffected. They are mostly downscale, white, not as well-
educated and they are angry and they`re resentful. And Donald Trump is
trying to use that resentment and aim it at the Mexicans and the people
that Donald Trump thinks they should be afraid of and angry at.

And Bernie Sanders is actually trying to take that in a different
direction, saying, no, it`s not the people who work alongside you, but it`s
the people who have been exploiting workers and profiting from it that you
should be angry at.

Frankly, I think they are both kind of destructive strategies and negative
messages. But that`s sort of what they are both trying to do. Bernie
wants the anger directed at the Wall Street and the wealthy. Donald Trump
wants the anger directed at Mexicans, and immigrants, and ISIS and others.

But they are both messages fundamentally of fear and anxiety. And that`s
what we are seeing.

MATTHEWS: OK. Let`s go to John. I would agree with that in general
terms. But I think one difference I would have is certainly the left
doesn`t like Wall Street. We got that from Elizabeth Warren, and the whole
history going back to Andrew Jackson. You go after Wall Street. That is
America at its heart. It`s populism.

But I don`t think they blame the Mexicans as much as they blame the
liberals for their stupid and actively ridiculously useless immigration
policy which doesn`t even seem to exist anymore. And that`s why the angry
white guys are angry about immigration, because it looks like nobody
believes in immigration policy.

But go back. Your view. How do you get people on the Bernie side to go to
Trump, if you would like to talk about that?

JOHN FEEHERY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I would agree with Steve on this
point. Trump is really kind of emphasizing cultural issues, cultural
differences, where Bernie, as a socialist, is emphasizing economic issues.

But Donald Trump is America`s most famous capitalist and Bernie Sanders is
the most famous socialist in America. And so they aren`t going to really
attract the same type of voters. I think that labor union types, by and
large, are going to support Bernie, unless you are somebody who kind of
only gives to labor unions and have this kind of built-up anxiety and anger
toward the other, the other people coming in.

I do think that they both reflect kind of this angry populism of the
country. And, you know, both of these class – folks appeal to folks who
haven`t seen their wages go up in 15 years. And there`s where the anger
really comes at.


FEEHERY: And whether you put the anger of Wall Street or at the Mexicans,
it`s still real anger.

MCMAHON: That`s the key.

MATTHEWS: We have got this new poll out, guys. I want you to go – but
there are two things in this new poll we found out we did with “Esquire,”
NBC and “Esquire.”

One is, they are very upset about the reduced status of America in the
world. We are not the great American power in the world that we were, that
everybody looked up to. Number two, the American dream seems dead. So,
you put those together, you could go left or right, Steve, on that one.

MCMAHON: No, you absolutely can.

And it`s the people who are seeing the middle class being sort of carved
out and the wealthy doing quite well. And to some, what they think they
are seeing is people coming across the border and taking the jobs, or the
jobs are being taken by corporate America and shipped to Mexico or India or
somewhere else.

MATTHEWS: That`s what I think.

MCMAHON: So, there`s a core of anger and there`s a core of resentment that
results from that anger. And then they kind of want to get even with
somebody. You know, Bernie Sanders is directing it at Wall Street yet even
over here, and Donald Trump is saying, let`s get even by putting up a wall
and keeping everybody who is taking your job.

MATTHEWS: I think it could all be true. It could all be true, John,
because if you think of it this way, we`re sending – if you want to hear
the argument from a working guy out there, we are sending the best jobs to
China and the lousy jobs, we`re giving to immigrants, and we are getting

And, number two, our kids, our daughters, and sons especially, are getting
put into multiple deployments fighting stupid wars overseas that don`t
protect America. And so they keep saying, why are we the ones getting
kicked in the butt constantly all the way down the line?

I would see you could do an argument either way. In fact, maybe the
working guys ought to get together and figure out which party they are
going to blame. Your thoughts?

FEEHERY: This has been a strain in American politics for quite a while.
The same people supported George Wallace. Some supported Ross Perot.

There`s always this kind of angry, lower-class, white vote that can go
either way. And this is kind of a prototypical swing vote. Ronald Reagan
was able to get those voters in 1980. And he actually – George W. Bush
was able to do pretty well with them in the 2000s.

The question is, today, does either one really have a solution that is
workable? And in my view, neither of them does.


MATTHEWS: OK, Feehery, McMahon, thank you guys both. I got to go back to
Katy Tur.


MATTHEWS: But, first of all, I want to correct the nomenclature around
here. We call downscale whites. We talk about – what is it, less
educated – all these – I came from that part of the world.

I once said to my father – I said blue-collar worker once to my father.
He went crazy with me. Where are you getting that crap from? They are
just voters like anybody else. They may not make as much. They may not
have had the breaks a lot of people had in terms of college. Let`s stop
talking about them as the untermensch, OK?

Anyway, NBC`s Katy Tur is now on the phone, inside the theater, where we
expect Donald Trump to begin his rally at any minute.

Katy, what is it like inside?

KATY TUR, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: It is actually pretty calm inside right

What we`re seeing is a steady stream of people coming into the theater.
It`s filling up pretty fast. The reports that they were turning people
away is certainly true from some of the people who told us that they were
turned away.

But, right now, we are not seeing anyone turned away at the door. Then
again, we are not seeing anywhere wear any visible Bernie Sanders support
at the moment. A lot of people wearing “Make America Great Again” hats and

But a lot of questions about why he would come to Vermont in the first
place. Well, this is an SEC state, as we know, Chris. It votes on March
1, along with Massachusetts, where he was on Monday. And I think if he
does – the thinking is, if he does a little bit of campaigning here in a
state where nobody else will venture to go, he will be able to come out
winning the state, potentially.

His big argument right now is that he is going to be able to win states
that no other Republicans can. What he does by coming here and having the
big headlines by saying I can get 20,000 people to RSVP for my event,
that`s a win in itself for him, because he`s able to say, I`m able to draw
support in a very blue state, a state that maybe I can win in the general
election. I am electable.

And that`s what he`s trying to do here in Vermont.

MATTHEWS: Yes. I remember when Barry Goldwater went to Fenway Park and
had a huge crowd. It is possible to always get a big crowd if you have
even a decent minority of the voters on your side.

Can you tell if anybody in that room – you said nobody looks like they`re
going to be a troublemaker. Are there any people there that look like
they`re just to watch or are they all sort of gung-ho Trump guys, Trump

TUR: No, I think there are certainly – I think some people might have
made it in.

I mean, we`re – you can expect to see some sort of – there`s definitely
people trying. I think it does – it`s a mix right now. There`s a lot of
gung-ho Trump supporters here wearing the hats and stuff.

And then there are also people that are just curious to see the show,
curious to see him in person. They have heard so much about him on
television and on the radio. Everyone seems to be talking about it around
the country. And there are people out here who are genuinely undecided and
genuinely curious.

And they want to know what he has to say. And they want to be swayed into
his camp. Or maybe they don`t want to be swayed, but certainly a mix of a
crowd here.

MATTHEWS: I`m looking for the bouncers. I can`t wait to see them in
action tonight.

Thank you, Katy Tur, from inside the event tonight, the Flynn auditorium.

Much more on the invasion of Burlington by one Donald Trump tonight. We
expect the Republican front-runner on the stage in just a moment.

HARDBALL back after this.


MATTHEWS: And here is Donald Trump on stage in Burlington, Vermont.

so nice and clean. I`m breathing so much of that air.


TRUMP: Thank you. That`s so great. That is so great.

It is true. I got here and I said I just want to breathe that air. I went
outside. There`s like 20,000 people. We can`t get them in. So, you are
very, very lucky tonight, I hope, right?


TRUMP: We are going to be very happy.


TRUMP: We had a crowd that stretched – it must be 15 blocks. I have
never seen anything like it.

But we have – we do have big crowds everywhere. People want to see our
country great again and they want to see a lot of positive things
happening. And that`s going to happen. We are going to make it something
really special.


TRUMP: We are going to make it really special. We have been taking a lot
of hits. We don`t have victories anymore. You understand that we don`t.
When was the last time?

When you look at what`s going on all over the world right now, whether it`s
the Middle East, whatever – by the way, do we have people, seats – do you
have seats? You don`t. You`re standing.

I think they got rid of the seats. They got rid of the seats. They took
seats out so we could get more people. Yes, go ahead. Sit down. Sit
down. Be comfortable. Thank you. Be comfortable. Be comfortable.


TRUMP: Great people up here. It`s amazing, right? Yes, it`s amazing.


TRUMP: So, you know, I announced I was going to run. I couldn`t stand
watching it anymore.

We used to have victories. We don`t have victories. We are going to have
so many victories that you are going to be bored of winning. You are going
to get so tired. You are going to be so tired of it.


TRUMP: So, I always like to start, only if it`s good news, but we have had
good news since June 16. I announced on June 13.

And a lot of the pundits, these are very dishonest people, many of them.
And some of these guys, some of these guys are just brutal and terrible.

Oh, look at all the people up there, too. Wow.


TRUMP: What a nice group.

But, they all said, oh, he`s never going to run. He`s just doing this for
fun. He`s not going to do it. He`s done it before.

I did. I almost ran four years ago. I wish I did. I really wish, because
that was – honestly, that was an election that could have been won and
should have been won. But, hey, so we delay it. Maybe this is better.
OK. Who knows?


TRUMP: We have gone deeper into the abyss. That, I can tell you.

But I think I`m very happy, because, in Vermont – OK, you know what these
are. I love ratings. I get so – I mean, these other candidates, why do
you always talk about ratings? Because I`m number one. If I were number
two – it`s true. If you`re number two, you don`t talk about the ratings,
right? We don`t talk about the ratings.

But, in Vermont, I`m number one by a lot, 32 percent, beating everybody.


TRUMP: Very important. Very important.

NBC did a big poll, 35 percent, by far number one. I`m killing everybody.
I won`t even say – should I say who is number two or not even bother?
They`re so – they said no. They are so far behind. I don`t – I hope it
doesn`t matter.

Today, Reuters – listen to this one, 43 percent, 43. And do you ever
notice, at the beginning, I come out, I started – we started off – we
started with nothing. And Jeb Bush was actually leading. And then we
found out he had no energy and he went down the tube.


TRUMP: No, we need energy.

Folks, we need energy. We need energy. You know, you have Jeb Bush. You
had Rand Paul. He`s like gone. In fact, he won`t make the stage. He
said, if I don`t make the main stage – I think he`s quitting or something,
if he doesn`t make the main stage.

So, it looks like he`s not going to make the main stage. So, I guess that
means – I`ll tell you what. Kentucky is a great state. I can`t imagine
somebody`s not going to challenge him after the horrible job he`s done with
this. Right?

If I were in Kentucky, I would challenge him. I would run in a primary and
you would win. But that`s his problem. That`s not my problem. We
probably won`t see him too much longer.


TRUMP: But we have had a total now of 17. We started off with 17. One by
one by one by one, they disappear. And everybody so far that`s disappeared
has taken on Trump.

And you remember Governor Perry? He was brutal. Gone, right?


TRUMP: Lindsey Graham gone.


TRUMP: Go ahead. Governor Walker, nice guy, gone.

These were all guys – and I feel guilty. Actually, I feel guilty. And
plenty of others. How about Pataki? He had zero. Pataki, he had zero,
zero, zero.

I said, at what point – when do you leave when you have all zeros, right?
They actually had him down once with a zero and an arrow to the left, which
meant less than nothing. I said I think it`s a typo. How do you have less
than nothing?


TRUMP: So, we have lost a lot of very fine people, really fine people.


TRUMP: And it`s been an experience, because, you know, when I first came
out, I was watching the pundits say this is the finest field of talent the
Republicans have put on since World War II.

They said World War II. And I said, no. Charles Krauthammer said it`s the
finest group of talent they have had in decades. I said, man, that`s bad.
I`m running against all this talent. And then I said, after like a couple
months, I said, we want that. I want to see this, because we will need
that, but – because we are going to do things that nobody else can do,

We are going to fix this country. We are going to make it safer. And
we`re going to do things that nobody else can do.


TRUMP: And, by the way, I have to say, you know these are Republicans.
And some of them, I really like, and some of them, I really respect.

You don`t respect everybody. You can`t respect – we are going to build a
wall. Don`t worry about it.


TRUMP: And wait. Wait a minute. And who is going to pay for the wall?


TRUMP: Who is going to pay for the wall?


TRUMP: Who is going to pay for the wall?


TRUMP: I have never done that before. That`s actually true. I have never
done – that`s true. I have never done that before. That`s very exciting.



TRUMP: I have never done it before. And that was pretty cool. We are
going to have to use that. I will always be thinking of Vermont when I use


TRUMP: I will tell you, who`s not going to pay for the wall? Vermont.


TRUMP: So, it was interesting, because when we said we`re going to come up
here, a lot of people said why. Most of the guys are not coming up.

They are afraid to come up here, because it has a tendency to be a little
bit liberal, really rough. OK?


TRUMP: No, no. And if you look at the candidates that are coming here, I
think I`m like the only one, the only one.


TRUMP: And I said – and all over the networks tonight, you know what?
All over the networks, all over the place, this turned out to be different.
I thought it would be nice, soft evening. We will have 500, 600 people.
We will sit around a little fireside and we will talk. We will have some

And then I hear CNN all day long, this line is massive, this line. And
they have – look at the line. So, it turned out to be good. But I`m here
for different reasons. I`m here because you people are great. And
everybody said it.

And I have a friend who is in my campaign who is very much attuned to
Vermont, loves Vermont. He said, you have got to do it. I said, I want to
do it. Let`s do it.

And now I find out, I`m the guy. And I think people are going to remember
that when it comes time to pull that little lever. OK? They are going to
remember. They are going to remember.


TRUMP: So, on the polls, so we are winning with Vermont. We are winning
with Reuters, winning with NBC, winning with “Washington Post”/ABC.
Winning with everything.

I mean, honestly, we are winning with everything. We are winning in Iowa,
CNN, 33-20, new poll. And, very importantly, they have these polls. You
know, it`s interesting. These politicians, they go out and they hire
pollsters. They pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars a month.

You wouldn`t believe the money. And I didn`t do it. By the way, I`m self-
funding my own campaign. Nobody is giving me money. Nobody. Nobody.


TRUMP: It`s amazing. People really like that. You know, people really
like it, because I know the system. Who knows the system better than me?

I gave very recently, before I did this, $350,000 to the RGA. That`s the
Republican Governors Association. And over the years, I have given
millions and millions of dollars to candidates. And I understand what it
means. And I`m not saying right, wrong. But you know what? When you give
and let`s say you have a company and you want something for that company,
or a country you`re representing as a lobbyist or a special interest, and
you want something for that country because they pay you a fortune, what
happens, you gave millions of dollars, like Jeb took a fortune.

The guy took in $128 million. He`s a stiff. How do you get that kind of
money? Although, actually, he said some very nice things about me today.
And I couldn`t believe it, actually.

He spent like $10 million in ads against me, but he said I`m a gifted
politician. I said maybe that`s not good, being a gifted – I wish he just
said I was gifted, left the politician out.

No, I thought it was nice. He said I`m a very gifted politician, I`m very
successful, this and that. See, now, here`s the – I would never say that
about my opponent. I would say, my opponent has nothing going. My
opponent is horrible, terrible. My opponent is a loser.

We always say loser, right?


TRUMP: You know, there are some words.

But, actually, Jeb was very nice to me today, so I appreciated that.

But – but there are some words that – I went to an Ivy League school. I
went to the Wharton School of Finance. And a lot of people say – it`s
wonderful, some of the pundits. They say, he`s plainspoken.

Plain spoken. You know, I don`t know, is that nice? Is that good or bad?
I don`t like it. Plain spoken.

I guarantee you I have a vocabulary better than all of them, certainly most
of them. I know I have an IQ better than all of them, I know that. But
they say he`s plain spoken.

And then I was saying the other night, you know, I was trying to describe
the stupidity that goes on. I always use the word, like they are
incompetent, they don`t know what they are doing. But then you go back to
the same words, stupidity.

You say, what is a better word to describe what`s happened to this country?
What is a better word than stupid? Stupid. It`s stupid. We are being led
by stupid people.

I mean, think of it. Think of it.


I mean, sometimes the words come out. They are the right words, the better

You look at what`s happened. Take a look at this. We have a deal that we
just made with Iran. One of the dumbest –


No, no, think about it. One of the dumbest transactions I have ever seen.

Now, between countries, unbelievable, but I`m talking any. We did “The Art
of the Deal”. Everybody here probably read “The Art of the Deal”, right?

Did most of you read it? Who read it? Almost everyone.

So, they do a deal, they give Iran $150 billion, billion dollars. They
have so much, they are so rich. If Iran were stock, buy it. OK?

By the way, speaking of stock, you see the bubble, little bubble is
starting to go a little bad. Some bad numbers coming out. Some really bad
things. And you better be careful. Be careful. Be very conservative,
because it could be very rough out there.

And who can fix things better than me in that`s what I do, I fix things.
That`s what I do.


That`s what I do.

But, you look at the Iran deal and you look at what happened and the way it
was made and the points we gave up and constantly. We don`t get our
prisoners back – $150 billion and we don`t get our prisoners back. We
have four over there. We should get them back. We should have had them
back, right?

Now, we should have had them back three or four years ago. This deal is –
first of all, a deal that goes that long. How many years have they been
negotiating? Three? Three and a half years?

And we walk in, yes, we`d like this. They go, no! Oh, OK, you win. Just
went on for years, right? We got nothing – 24-day periods for inspection.
I love the one, self-inspect, they have the right to self – certain areas
are really hot. In other words, that`s probably where they make those
suckers, right?

So, they have the right to self-inspect. So, they`re going to self – so
we call up, we understand you are doing nuclear at this location. OK,
well, inspect it, we`ll call you back tomorrow. No, we are not doing it.

This is the dumbest deal that I have ever seen. We didn`t get anything.

So, here is what happens: we have $150 billion that we gave them. They are
going to now and they just said, we would like to start negotiating for the
prisoners. Now, think of this. The prisoners should have been out three
years ago.

What you do, you need the right messenger. I could take 85 percent of the
audience and you could have done a good job. It`s true. Ten percent, no
good. Five percent, mixed.

No, it`s true, not everybody. Look, we have Kerry in there, he`s one of
the 5 percent, OK? No, he shouldn`t be doing this.

You go in the first day, you say, listen, we need our prisoners. Don`t
talk about the $150 billion yet, because you don`t want to give them that
either. You go in, you want to get the prisoners out. And you say, we
want to get our prisoners out, you have to let them out. They don`t help
you, they do help us.

Set a nice tone, a very nice tone. That`s a word Hillary uses a lot. She
said she doesn`t like my tone. My tone.

By the way, they are chopping off heads of everybody in the Middle East,
especially if you happen to be Christian. They are chopping off your head
– she doesn`t like my tone, if you can believe this.

I don`t like their tone. I don`t like her tone.



So, you go in and you say we`re going to have our prisoners back before we
start. They are going to say no because the Persians, you know, they are
great negotiators. The Iranians, Persians are great negotiators. So, they
are going to say no, absolutely not. We are going to say bye-bye.

Now you leave. You leave the room.

We never leave the room. How many times did we all think Obama was going
to leave the room, meaning get his people to come out? They go back to
Iran, they tell everybody we are stupid, they`re winning. This is before
the deal is even done, everyone is saying we are stupid.

When somebody says you are stupid, you don`t do the deal. But they are
marching in the streets, celebrating a deal that hasn`t been done. But I
say this, with we say no. They say no. They are going to say no.

Now you leave, double up the sanctions. Sit back and wait for the phone
call, right? They will call you up within 48 hours, guaranteed and they`ll
say, we`ll give you the prisoners, right?

This is the way it works. This is the way it works.


So, they give you the prisoners. We have to get the prisoners. Not at the
end. You get them out in the beginning, you get them out before it starts
and all you had to do is just say, you will never get them in the first
session, they will say no, 100 percent, I mean 95 percent. Might be they
give them, but I doubt it.

But you leave and you double up or triple up. They say that`s it. OK, now
we have the prisoners back. Now you go back in.

Next statement, we are ready to start negotiating, we want to be fair, but
we will not give you $150 billion. We are not going to give you any money.
We get enough problems. We owe 19 trillion bucks. We owe $19 trillion and
we give them $150 billion.


And we just tell them this, not good, right, hey, what could Vermont do
with $150 billion?


We made Iran a real power.

So, what you do is say, you have to get the prisoners out first. You don`t
mention the money, because, you know, when you mention the money, it gets
tougher. So, now they say, no, we have to have that money. You are not
going to have it. I mean, you`re just not going to have it. We don`t have

Claim poverty. We are a poor nation. We owe $19 trillion to stupid budget
that was approved two weeks ago. The stupid budget.


How about that?

Did you ever see a budget approved so fast? And that`s worth $2 billion –
that`s worth $2 trillion. So, now, we are going to be at $21 trillion.

Here is a budget. I don`t get it. You know, the only one – because I
think Obama is one of the worst negotiators in the history of the world,


Except with the Republicans, with the Republicans, he`s a great negotiator.
With the Republicans, he does great. He gets a budget approved I don`t
understand. He`s got the money for Planned Parenthood.


He`s got the money, think of it. He`s got the money to fund Obamacare,
which we`re going to – by the way, which we are going to terminate it,
we`re going to repeal it and we`re going to replace it with something much


You see your premiums? You see what`s going on? Your premiums are going
up 25, 34 – I saw one go up 48 percent – 48!

A friend of mine calls me up. How it`s doing? Oh, this Obamacare is – 48
percent. Your deductibles are through the roof. You`ll never get to use
it. You have to die to use it. You have to die. You need massive
operation – you need like 40 operations on your brain and maybe you could
get something.

No, the deductibles are through the roof. They are through the roof.
Obamacare is a dead duck anyway because in `17, just my luck, if I win, I
get Obamacare. It`s going to fail during my – then they will blame me.
Can you believe it? They`ll blame me.

They`ll say, oh, Trump did a lousy job, Obamacare failed. If we had Obama,
it wouldn`t fail – well, it`s failing of its own weight.

And numerous stories came out recently where by `17, which is in two years,
it`s dead. It can`t survive. Of course, the Republicans will find a way
to keep it going.

I`m so upset and angry with the Republicans. We know – we know what we
are getting with the Democrats. But the Republicans, here we finally have
majority. So, we have majority, majority and we have the wrong president,
right? But the second majority doesn`t – it`s like we are doing worse now
than ever before.

And now, Obama, he`s got so little respect for the Republican leaders that
he just goes along and signs executive orders for everything.


No, no, it`s all executive orders, because that`s easy to do. I tell you
the one good thing about an executive order is that new president come and
with just a signature, they are all gone. That`s good. That`s good. And
they`re gone. They are gone.


So, when you look at a deal like that, when you see what`s happening with
our country and you see that, we are going to change that. Now, as far as
Iran is concerned, I saw what happened over the last few days with the
embassy in Iran, the Saudi embassy.

Folks, they want to take over Saudi Arabia. Now, they are taking over Iraq
because we handed them that on a platter. I was against going in, I am
most – and I say it all the time – I am the most militaristic person in
the room except that guy with a hat. Stand-up, with the beautiful beard.
Stand up, he`s the only one.

He`s the only one. You are my guy. You are my guy. I can tell.


I know. Do I know my people? And I`ve never met him before. He just
looks good to me.

No, I said he`s the only person more militaristic than I am. OK? And you
are. You know what I`m talk about. No, but I`m the most.

And we`re going to make our military so strong, so powerful, so big, so


So good and – that nobody`s going to mess with us, folks. But I`m the one
that didn`t want to go into Iraq. And in 2004, 2003 you`ll see stories,
Trump said, don`t go into Iraq, you`re going to destabilize the Middle
East. OK? I mean, say what we want. We spent $2 trillion, right? Two
trillion, $2 trillion.

Wounded warriors, who I love. All over the place. I see them. So many.


Some of them so badly injured and they have a better attitude than I have
and they have a better attitude than half the people in the room. I mean,
these are amazing people. Men and women. What they`ve gone through and
their attitude.

And what I said is we take the oil. Remember, how long have I been saying
it? Take the oil. For years, I`ve been saying. And they`ve been saying
that doesn`t make sense, you can`t – now they`re taking the oil.

But they`re not taking it. They`re bombing it. Although Obama doesn`t
want to really bomb it because he thinks it`s going to create air pollution
and be bad for the atmosphere. And this is a true story.

What do you think if General Douglas MacArthur, if they said you can`t
really bomb the oil because it`s bad for the environment? Do you think he
might say I don`t give a damn, bomb.

Now, we need – we need Douglas MacArthur. We need General Patton. We
need people. We need people.

These are great people. These were incredible people. These were people
that won. They know how to win. We don`t have people that know how to
win. We need people – and you know what? In the service we have – I
know a lot about West Point and Annapolis and the Air Force Academy, et

We have great people. We have great people. We let one of our best
generals go because he had foul language. He talked too – you know who
I`m talking about. He had foul language. And we let him go.

And yet the people loved him – his soldiers, his guys, and women. They
absolutely love this guy. They wanted to fight for the guy. But he was
very foulmouthed.

Who the hell cares? We`ve got to start winning.


We have – and I say this. We have an amazing situation, because I see
these generals on television all time. They`re on television. I don`t
want generals on television. I don`t want them.

And they`re saying what are we going to do? What are you going to do?
What are you going to do here? And then, we`re going to attack here and
then we`re going to attack here.

I figure it`s camouflage, they`re giving false – turns out to be true. Or
Obama two months ago, right? We sent 50 people over. He thinks it`s good.
See, I think it`s bad to send 50 people. Because 50 people? What the hell
are we doing?

But we`re sending 50 people. So, he announces we`re sending 50 people.
Now, these are really our finest. These are 50 incredible guys that I
assume – women, and these are our finest and they`re going over, right?

Why do we have to say that they`re going there? Because now they have a
target on their back. No, no. Seriously. They have now a target. And
the enemy is looking for them.



Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. That was a very mild protester
I would say.

You know what I love about the protesters, though? And I`ll tell you. Is
that a camera? Is that a camera? Are you on my side or somebody else –
he`s holding something up. And I hope it`s a camera.

He`s on my side. I can see. He`s one of our guys. He`s one of the good

But you know, like these protesters, they come in and the only thing I like
about them is that the – look at all those cameras back there. Look at
all of them. Everybody`s on television. But they never show the crowd.
They never want to show the crowd.

And the good thing about the protesters – they won`t turn them. In fact,
I used to think that like they`re fixed, it`s a modern camera, they`re
fixed so you can`t turn them. It`s always on my face, right? And you
heard me say this before. They never turn them.

And what happens is when you have a protester the only time people learn
how big these crowds are, because we`ve got 20,000 in Dallas, 35,000 in
Mobile, in Iowa, in New Hampshire. We have the biggest crowds. South
Carolina we`re packed. We`re going to be in Pensacola, Florida next week.
We`re going to have 20,000 people.

We have – and nobody ever knows. I go home to my wife. She said, oh, you
did well tonight, how was your speech? Did you have many people? I said
many people? The place was packed. I had thousands. I had 15,000 people.

In Lowell, Massachusetts, the other night. You saw that.


We set a record in the history of the arena. And she`ll say, did you have
many people? And I say, why do you ask? Because they never show the

That`s why I love protesters, because whenever there`s a protester, you
know, I think they can`t move the cameras, right? That they`re fixed.
They turn into pretzels, they can move them.

If there`s a protester behind and under the camera, it will do a
somersault. It`s unbelievable. So –


It`s true. It`s true. We`re having a good time. We`re having a good


Thank you. We have a good time. You know, we have a good time with a bad
subject because we don`t have much going, right? We don`t have much going
in terms of – and I always say – I tweeted out today, @RealDonaldTrump,
@realDonaldTrump. It`s great.

Five and a half million people. I have more than 5 on Facebook – it`s
sort of like owning “The New York Times” without the losses. It`s
unbelievable. No, it`s true.

You tweet out. You have millions and millions of people. I mean, friends
of mine they do a book, would you do a favor? What? Could you tweet out
I`m doing a book?

So, if I like the guy or the woman and they`re doing a book I tweet it and,
all of a sudden, they become a best-seller. And then they don`t talk to me
anymore, they give me no credit. They give me no credit.

But it is a powerful instrument. You know, we`re dealing in social media
and we`re getting a lot of credit for doing a good job with social media.
And a lot of the voters – it`s true. A lot of the voters – a lot of the
voters are going to be coming out. And you know, it`s been really amazing.

So, just to finish off with Iran. What we do is we negotiate properly.
And I have the greatest negotiators in the world who want to come with me.
Carl Icahn, one of the great businessmen, endorse me and many others. You
know Carl.

And they don`t want money. They want to help. They want to do something.
You know, they`ve made billions and billions of dollars. They don`t need
to be paid, you know, a salary.

Now, we have negotiating against China. We have people that are political
hacks. We have people that gave money and they want to be, you know, in
government. And I want to pick the finest people.

Some of them, get prepared, are not nice. They have bad personalities.
But they`re brutal, brutal genius killers. I want them, right?


I mean, we lose, we lose so much money on trade and all these other things.
You`re right.

So, here`s what`s happened – and over the last short period of time, I`ve
been talking about the deal with Iran and I`ve been saying it`s one of the
worst deals, but then I thought it`s even worse than I thought, because I
thought the $150 billion that they got and all of the other things that
they got, and they`ll have nuclear proliferation all over the place because
of that deal, and that deal`s horrible for Israel, by the way. Horrible.

It`s really horrible for the Middle East but it`s horrible for Israel. And
Netanyahu, I don`t know. He was having an awfully hard time.

I think Barack Obama is the single worst thing that`s ever happened to
Israel. I really believe that.


And then I said to myself, OK, so they made this great deal, they made this
great deal, and then I said, you know, it`s one of the greatest deals and I
started thinking, no, it`s not. The greatest deal – they also made, they
made two great deals. It`s like a movie company. You take Marvel where
they have these great successes, right? They`ve got like five of the top
ten movies ever.

Well, this is the same thing. Think of it. So they make this great deal.
What else do they get? They got Iraq.


Get him out. Get him out. Get him out.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: You just heard, get them out. That`s Donald
Trump`s order to his bouncers. Get the protester out of the room. Trump,
by the way, continues his rally up in Burlington.

I want to thank my guests tonight, Heidi Przybyla, Michael Steele, and
Sabrina Siddiqui.

Our coverage of the Trump phenomena, if you will, continues right now on
“ALL IN” live from Burlington with Chris Hayes – Chris.


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