CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: All he needs is for blueprints to the words he spoke in getting here. That`s HARDBALL for now. Thanks for being with us. "ALL IN" with Chris Hayes starts right now.
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ALI VELSHI, MSNBC ANCHOR: Tonight on ALL IN.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you feel the need to get involved with the two congresswomen`s trip to Israel?
VELSHI: The president demands a foreign government retaliate against American citizens.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I can`t imagine why Israel would let them in.
VELSHI: Tonight, the growing outrage over the President`s behavior and his continued attacks on the first two Muslim women in Congress. Senator Bernie Sanders joins me on the Trump attacks on the squad at a Trump economy teetering on the edge of recession. Plus, why Democrats just subpoena the man Donald Trump just endorsed for Senate.
TRUMP: He`s terrific on television you`ve seen.
VELSHI: And what we`re learning from leaked details of the Jeffrey Epstein autopsy. ALL IN starts now.
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VELSHI: Good evening from New York I`m Ali Velshi in for Chris Hayes. It was another extraordinary day in the era of Donald Trump. The president wielding his power to push Israel to deny entrance to two American citizens, two elected U.S. officials for that matter because those American citizens, those two women are his political adversaries.
Democratic Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar had planned to visit Jerusalem in the West Bank this weekend. The two lawmakers are vocal critics of the Israeli government and its treatment of the Palestinian people. But as of just last month, the visit appeared to be on track.
The Israeli Ambassador to the United States Ron Dermer who`s extremely close to the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the two members of Congress would be allowed to visit "out of respect for the U.S. Congress and the great alliance between Israel and America."
This past weekend, the top Republican in the House Congressman Kevin McCarthy appeared in Jerusalem alongside his Democratic counterpart House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and said that the two women should be allowed to visit Israel.
This is how the Israeli newspaper Haaretz covered those comments, "U.S. House leaders backed Netanyahu`s decision to let Tlaib and Omar enter Israel. So certainly it seems like a done deal as of this weekend. But this morning the president tweeted, It would show great weakness if Israel allowed Congresswoman Omar and Congresswoman Tlaib to visit claiming -- Trump claiming the pair "hate Israel and all Jewish people."
It`s worth noting that Donald Trump once insisted that at least some of the white supremacists and neo-Nazis who marched in Charlottesville Virginia, a group who walked the streets carrying torches and chanting the Jews will not replace us were "very fine people." He also reportedly told the former president of his casino "the only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day."
Well today, shortly after the president`s tweet, Netanyahu reversed course and did Trump`s bidding officially barring Congresswomen Tlaib and Omar from Israel. The move garnered strong criticism from Republican and Democratic lawmakers and even the powerful pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC called it a mistake.
After stating that it disagreed with the two lawmakers, AIPAC added, "We also believe every member of Congress should be able to visit and experience our democratic ally Israel firsthand. It`s perhaps not so surprising the Trump is wielding this power, by the way, to retaliate against the first two women -- Muslim women ever elected to Congress. And don`t forget, one of the centerpieces of his presidential campaign was a proposed ban on all Muslims entering the United States until we can "figure out what the hell is going on."
Trump has repeatedly targeted Tlaib and Omar specifically along with two other congresswomen of color Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ayanna Presley, even telling them to go -- to "go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came."
All four women are American citizens. Three of them were born in the United States. The one who was not Ilhan Omar, I should note, has been a U.S. citizen longer than the president`s -- the president`s wife Melania.
Last month, after Trump attacked Congresswoman Omar at a rally, his supporters chanted send her back and Trump did nothing to stop those chants. In a statement today, Omar described the decision to ban her from Israel as an insult to democratic values. "Trump`s Muslim ban is what Israel is implementing this time against two duly elected members of Congress."
I want to get some reaction now from Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, independent senator from Vermont. Senator, good to see you. What`s your reaction to President Trump asking the President of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu to do this and Netanyahu obliging?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I wish I could tell you, Ali, that I am shocked, I am not. We have a president who tragically is a racist, is a xenophobe, and who is a religious bigot. But the idea that a member of the United States Congress cannot visit a nation which by the way we support to the tune of billions and billions of dollars is clearly an outrage.
And if Israel doesn`t want members of the United States Congress to visit their country to get a first-hand look at what`s going on -- and I`ve been there many, many times -- but if he doesn`t want members to visit, maybe he can respectfully decline the billions of dollars that we gift Israel.
VELSHI: Over time, in excess of $140 billion. Last year alone $3 billion in various types of aid. You`ve actually suggested that might be used to leverage some of Israel`s behavior that Representatives Omar and Tlaib are critical of, as you`ve been critical of.
SANDERS: Well, all that I am saying is that we need a Middle East policy which is even-handed which protects the independence and the safety of Israel but also shows respect to the Palestinian people. Many of whom in Gaza and elsewhere are suffering incredibly, unemployment rate off the charts. People cannot leave their community.
And I think what the United States should be doing especially with the enormous amount of money we`re spending there is to demand that Israel and the Palestinian leadership sit down and start working out their differences and create peace in that troubled region.
VELSHI: Senator, you know, I`m never going to pass an opportunity when you`re on with me to talk about the economy. I want to talk about what`s going on this week, Donald Trump`s trade war, the effect that is having.
Look, he`s been roundly criticized for the way he`s handled this, not critical of the fact that he and some of his supporters believe that China needs to be dealt with differently, you too have had views, so -- and so many of your supporters have had views that we lose out to manufacturing that comes from low-wage countries like China.
Watching what you`re watching now, how would a president Bernie Sanders deal with trade issues differently? Because you were against the TPP. You have come out against some of these trade agreements.
SANDERS: Absolutely.
VELSHI: So how would you handle matters differently so that we don`t get ourselves into the pickle we`re in right now?
SANDERS: Well, first of all, you don`t do trade policy by tweet. You don`t have a belligerent policy toward our allies all over the world. What you do is sit down with the stakeholders which is labor, which are farmers, and you work out a trade policy which works for ordinary Americans and not just large corporations which has historically been what our trade policy is about.
Look, the truth is that if you looked at NAFTA and PNTR with China, that has cost us some four million jobs. So I happen to believe in trade -- I`m a strong believer in trade but it cannot be unfettered free trade which it really is not. It`s nothing free about it. But it has to be fair trade which protects American workers and farmers.
VELSHI: Senator, when you got into government, trade -- I`m making this up but it was somewhere around 20 percent of global GDP. It`s now somewhere around 60, in excess of 60 percent of GDP. The world got richer for it, GDP is higher, corporate profitability is higher. The fact is there`s more money because of trade. We haven`t used that money to train people, to retrain people, to equip people for the future. Is trade really the enemy or is how we deal with the profits from trade the problem?
SANDERS: Well, Ali, that`s -- I think trade is one of the problems, automation and artificial intelligence which are going to cost us many, many jobs are another part of the problem. But to answer your question, when we talk about the overall economy, it`s more than trade.
You have to look at a situation where today you have three people owning more wealth than the bottom half of American society. That`s not just trade, there`s a lot of factors involved there. You have major corporations like Amazon not paying a nickel in federal income taxes.
You`ve got half of the American people working paycheck to paycheck. 87 million Americans are either uninsured or underinsured and tonight some 500,000 Americans are going to be sleeping out on the street when 49 percent of all their income goes lifted up one percent.
So the bottom line there is trade is one of the issues, not the only one. We need an economy and a government that works for everybody not just the one percent which is currently the case.
VELSHI: What does it look like to work for everybody? And I know we`ll get to Medicare-for-all in a second because that`s one of the things you say will work for everybody. But what does it mean for the rest of people who are not employed, who it`s not a -- it`s not a huge percentage of our population, it`s a very low percentage but it`s stubborn?
There a number of people in this country, somewhere around 10 million people who are not participating in this economy.
SANDERS: But Ali, it`s not just the unemployed. And you`re right, there are more than we think and they`re hurting. It is, in fact, tens of billions of people who are trying to get by today on $10.00, $11.00, $12.00 an hour, you can`t do it. It is people in Vermont and in California working two or three jobs in order to put the -- pay the bills that their families are needing.
It is elderly people are trying to get by in $12,000, $13,000 a year Social Security. It is people -- one out of five people cannot afford the medicines that doctors prescribed. So the truth is you got an economy that`s doing really, really well for the people on top, but a lot of people are hurting in the bottom fifty percent and that is an issue we`ve got to talk about.
VELSHI: All right, let`s talk about Medicare for all. You know, I like talking about this with you.
SANDERS: Yes, I know.
VELSHI: I am coming from Canada. I understand what everybody having health care looks like. However, one of the things you and I have talked about is that there will be structural change with your plan. There will be people put out of their jobs and there`ll be a transition and you`ve talked about it taking at least four years to get done if not longer.
Now we have a different problem on our hands. We have a president, we`re ten years and two months into an expansion. It`s a very long one. At some point, there`s going to be a recession. There`s some people saying this president might march us headlong into one with his trade policies. What happens Bernie Sanders wins the election? President Bernie Sanders, are you going to implement Medicare for all right off the top if you happen to be in --
SANDERS: Absolutely, absolutely. Well, this will improve the economy. When you got 87 million people who can`t afford to go to the doctor, you got 30 million -- 30,000 people who are going to die this year because they don`t get to a doctor when they should.
When you have 500,000 people, I mean, it`s unbelievable, half a million people go bankrupt because they cannot afford the outrageous medical bills --
VELSHI: The only country in the developed world where that happens.
SANDERS: That`s right. So if you`re asking me overall will it improve the economy to have Medicare for all over a four-year transition, the answer is absolutely yes. And I`ll tell you one of the things we don`t talk enough about, it we`ll help home health care for the elderly. You can -- don`t have to go into a nursing home because my legislation covers home health care.
The other thing, it does which is pretty amazing, is that if you are in a job right now and there are millions of people who are at a job that they really don`t like but they`re there because they get decent health care, when you have Medicare for all, suddenly you can see a whole lot of people starting small businesses, going out and doing all kinds of incredible things because they are not now chained down at a job which they have only because they have decent health care.
VELSHI: Senator, good to talk to you. Thank you for joining us tonight.
SANDERS: Thank you.
VELSHI: Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, presidential candidate. Ahead, more on the president`s continued attacks on the first two Muslim women ever elected to Congress. The divider in chief as campaign strategy ahead.
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VELSHI: One consistent theme in Donald Trump`s political career has been his systematic attacks on Muslims. It started in 2015 when he proposed banning all Muslims from entering the United States.
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TRUMP: So remember this, so listen. Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country`s representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.
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VELSHI: All right, that continued through 2016 when he attacked the Muslim mother of a fallen U.S. soldier, a Gold Star mother who took the stage at the Democratic National Convention. He suggested that she didn`t speak alongside her husband because "maybe she wasn`t allowed to have anything to say." The mother later clarified she didn`t speak up because there was a giant picture of her dead son projected on the screen behind her and it made her too emotional.
Once Donald Trump became president, one of his first acts was to try and make good on his Muslim ban. Donald Trump`s systemic attack on Muslims has been a recurring theme in his campaign and his presidency. Just last month he tweeted "why don`t they go back and help fix the totally broken in crime-infested places from which they came."
That was directed at for congresswoman, two of whom are Muslim, Congresswoman Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib. And three days after that tweet, we saw him bask in the send her back chants that were directed at those women at his rally.
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AMERICAN CROWD: Send her back! Send her back! Send her back!
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VELSHI: Now, it`s important to remember that this hateful rhetoric is literally a campaign ploy. It began on a campaign stop in 2015, has continued through his presidency, and he`s using it again as he seeks re- election. Anti-Muslim rhetoric is a key part of Donald Trump`s strategy to win in 2020.
Joining me now are two people with significant experience covering Israel and the rest of the Middle East Rula Jebreal, a journalist and Foreign Policy Analyst who grew up in East Jerusalem, Ayman Mohyeldin who has reported on the Middle East extensively before becoming the co-host of "MORNING JOE FIRST LOOK" right here on MSNBC every morning. Welcome to both of you. Thank you for being here.
Rula you`ve had a few hours to digest this. What stands out to you as the most egregious part of what happened today? And I remind people it was Donald Trump tweeting about how Israel should block these two women and then the Prime Minister of Israel acquiescing.
RULA JEBREAL, JOURNALIST: We`re both ethnically Palestinian and I`m speaking obviously today as a journalist, as analysts. However, Palestinian people, if you`re an Arab or Palestinian you`ve been banned many times from entering Israel and even preventing from crossing one -- from one area to another, so we`re familiar with this.
What is new is Israel escalation in its war on every critic around the world, and this is backed by the President of the United States. I don`t know if there`s a president -- any other leader in America that`s ever lobbied to ban Congress --
VELSHI: I can`t -- I can`t think of one.
JEBREAL: I don`t remember anyone. However, it`s -- again, it`s Israeli -- the Israeli government and Trump, they`re united in defining their countries, the relative countries along racial religious line. And now they are taking it to the next level in the case of Israel and the case of Trump where they`re saying, if you criticize us you will be banned.
These two women have a role as representative of U.S. Congress that`s been by the way the biggest allies Israel ever, not even the White House or any president has been Congress. They`ve been giving them aid for years and they`ve been very generous with them.
So Israel is saying, if you want to visit Israel or the territories that we control which is occupied territories, you have to go through AIPAC and approve of what we are doing. If not, we don`t want you here.
So they`re thrown, Democrats, under the bus and they`re aligning themselves totally with Donald Trump and his vision of ethnoreligious project of exclusion and purity. This is what`s happening today.
VELSHI: The interesting point, though, that in doing this, in blocking these two women, these two members of Congress, whether they`re members of Congress or not, Israel is sort of underscoring the point that criticism -- critics of Israel have, that you can`t get to the West Bank, you can`t get to the occupied territories, you can`t get to Gaza but with the permission of the Israeli government which they denied because these two women are critics.
AYMAN MOHYELDIN, MSNBC ANCHOR: Yes, there`s three components to this and that is certainly one of them. I think one is this underscores the reality of what occupation is. It`s that Israel controls the lives of these millions of Palestinians that live there. Anyone who wants to access them to see for themselves what that reality is on the ground whether it be human rights activists, whether it be a sitting member of Congress, whether it be a politician or even an entertainer, they would be limited because the Israel ultimately controls who goes in and out of the territories.
Two, it also for the first time marks a slight and dangerous potential shift for what Israel has done and that it is -- it`s exporting its policy of silencing those who want to support BDS beyond its borders, this time to an American congresswoman. We have seen them try to do that internally within Israel. There have been Israeli activists and Palestinian activists who have been banned from traveling out of Israel. But not to see them denying this, it takes it to an international level that we have not yet seen before.
And finally, it undermines the so-called special relationship between Israel and the United States. You had a lot of members of the Democratic Party just last week or in the week before standing in Israel saying the Israeli prime minister is not a racist, vouching for Israel being an open and secular and free democratic society, and saying all the things that we`re hearing are bad.
They have egg on their face today. They vouched for this Israeli government and today that Israeli government has essentially not only disrespected the institution of Congress but has also disrespected members of the Democrat party. It is now incumbent upon the Democratic leadership to correct that and stand up for that.
VELSHI: You`re talking about BDS, the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions rule. The Ambassador David Friedman, the ambassador to the -- to Israel said this today. The Boycott Divestment and Sanctions, BDS movement against Israel is not free speech, rather it is no less than economic warfare designed to delegitimize and ultimately destroy the Jewish state.
JEBREAL: I think South Africans would disagree. I think what really brought down apartheid South Africa was only economic sanctions and a pressure for the international community. It`s a non-violent. So what path does Friedman give to the Palestinian?
And by the way, it`s good to mention that. Ambassador Friedman has been financing the settlement enterprise that is illegal, that`s been stealing people lands. And this is not the first time, by the way, that they block a U.S. official. They blocked Jimmy Carter.
President Carter was supposed to go a couple of years ago from Jordan, from Allenby Bridge to visit the territories, occupied territory, and the Israeli prevented him from going, and they prevented other people. But what this administration is doing is basically say to the world, the America we want is basically an America for white people, for people who are evangelical, and Christian, and white people.
Israel has been doing that for a while. They even enshrine in laws, discriminatory laws, the nation-state bill law. What does it say? That people like you Ali, like me, like Ayman who are American first and foremost and then we can be Muslim or Sikh or whatever, they will define us always and see us only through the prism of one thing.
So we have they -- which is our ethnicity, our religion, which is really a betrayal of the Declaration of Independence of Israel that talked about equal rights. So when Bibi Netanyahu stand there and say Arabs are arriving in droves and then Congress -- the Congress give them basically a pass on BDS and tell them no, no, no, we will condemn BDS on your behalf, you`re basically licensing him and giving him a pass to do what he did today.
So the way to fight this is to stand up to Israel for what they are doing, not what they are saying, what they are doing. And what they did today is a clear declaration for all Congress itself especially Democrats.
VELSHI: Rula, Ayman, thank you for joining us tonight.
JEBREAL: Thank you for having me.
VELSHI: Rula Jebreal and Ayman Mohyeldin. After this, new reporting on the cause and effect of Donald Trump`s divisive campaigning, and New York Governor Andrew Cuomo on his state`s new initiative to combat domestic terror.
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VELSHI: We`ve now got hard numbers about how this president and his rhetoric have been inspiring violence across the country. In a new nationwide review, ABC News found 36 criminal cases invoking Trump in connection with violence, threats, alleged assaults.
Seven of those cases involved anti-Trump acts but that still leaves 29 cases where according to court documents or police statements, there was a link to the president. ABC News reporting that "in nine cases, perpetrators hailed Trump in the midst or immediate aftermath of physically attacking innocent victims."
In another ten cases, perpetrators cheered or defended Trump while taunting or threatening others. And in another ten cases, Trump and his rhetoric were cited in court to explain a defendant`s violent or threatening behavior.
The latest case cited by ABC News happened in El Paso where a gunman murdered 22 people after parroting the president`s anti-immigrant rhetoric. Other incidents happened across the country from Florida, to Michigan, to California, to Utah.
There were even several cases right here in New York including one in which the FBI arrested a 55-year-old man for threatening to kill Democratic member of Congress Ilhan Omar. The very next day after that arrest, Donald Trump was back attacking Congresswoman Omar.
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TRUMP: And a special thanks to Representative Omar of Minnesota -- oh, I forgot. She doesn`t like Israel, I forgot. I`m so sorry.
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VELSHI: I want to bring in someone who just launched a brand new effort to fight domestic terrorism here in New York and who`s pushing Congress to follow suit. Democratic Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York State joins me now.
Governor, good to see you. You and I spoke in the immediate aftermath of the shootings in El Paso and Dayton about things that were happening in New York, because we got a brand new law in New York dealing with gun violence. But you have introduced something specifically dealing with domestic terror. How do you think this helps?
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO, (D) NEW YORK: Well, first I think, Ali, we have to acknowledge what`s happened in this country today. We talk about terrorism. We`re talking about terrorism normally from a foreign entity, right? New York`s anti-terrorism law was written after 9/11.
There is a new type of terrorism, it is domestic terrorism, but domestic terrorism meaning homegrown terrorism, terrorism by Americans against Americans, motivated by hate. And I`m proposing a statute that defines domestic terrorism as mass murder plus a hate crime. Hate crime means the motivation was against the person`s race, color, creed, sexual orientation, et cetera.
That is terrorism. You know, if you kill -- what happened in El Paso, if you kill Latinos because they are Latinos, that is a hate crime. And I believe that`s terrorism. That`s a mass murder hate crime. If you walk into a synagogue to kill Jewish people, that is terrorism.
Let`s acknowledge it for what it is, and let`s punish it for what it is.
VELSHI: What is the statute that you propose? What does it change?
CUOMO: It establishes a new law, a new crime defining domestic terrorism as having nothing to do with a foreign entity, just a hate-based crime by an American against other Americans based on race, color, creed, sexual orientation, et cetera. So you can have a radicalized American, not radicalized by a foreign ideology, but radicalized by hate, who sets out to kill a certain religion, sexual orientation, et cetera, and is successful in killing people that is terrorism.
El Paso was terrorism. Tree of Life Synagogue was terrorism. And let`s call it what it is, and let`s treat it that way. And the penalty would be the same as a foreign actor in terrorism.
VELSHI: You know, when you combine the idea of domestic terrorism, particularly that that`s fed by white nationalism, with the availability of guns and the ammunition that can go with it and the high capacity magazines, those two things are what has proved to be lethal. Domestic terrorism throughout the world is an issue, but availability of weaponry in the United States tends to make it that much more lethal.
You`ve already got a new book, a new law on the books. Does that work with this? Or will that work with this in terms of dealing with the guns and the terrorism?
CUOMO: Yes, exactly. You`re exactly right.
It`s not just hate, we`ve always had hate, let`s be honest, right? In the American DNA is diversity and diversity can create fear and anxiety and hate. It`s hate plus guns that create the problem. That is the toxic cocktail. Hate alone picks up a rock, picks up a club. Hate plus an assault weapon, 22 dead in three minutes. That`s the combination.
So we have the anti-terrorism law and the new terrorism law, and New York has the best gun control law in the United States of America, passed six years ago. We still need the nation to pass it. Ban assault weapons, ban high capacity magazines, mental health background check, universal background checks, and a red flag law. That is -- that combination, real smart common sense gun laws which by the way, Ali, we`ve had for six years, and all the NRA arguments, none of them came to fruition -- the slippery slope, government will take your gun, none of that happened. Six years, nobody walked up to me and said, you know, governor, I`m supposed to have a gun legally, and I can`t get it.
But people are safer. So you can have common sense gun laws, a real new look at terrorism based on hate, and you need to address both of those issues. That`s El Paso. That`s the synagogue shootings. That`s the Orlando nightclub shooting. That`s the common denominator. Hate plus guns in the wrong hands or extraordinarily dangerous guns.
VELSHI: Governor, I`ve got a minute left. We`ve got two presidential candidates in this show. You`ve got a view on how Democrats can deal with these particular issues on a national level in the presidential race.
CUOMO: Yes. Look, people say well, it may be after El Paso there is a tipping point and change will happen. Ali, there is no magic moment, there is no spontaneous combustion, change doesn`t just happen. Leadership causes change. And what I`m saying to the Democrats is they should form a clear juxtaposition with this president. He`s not going to do anything on guns, neither will the Republicans in the Senate.
The Democrats should have one clear position where they can stand together, put their own personal politics aside and say every Democratic presidential candidate, the House, the Senate, here`s the Democratic position: a real comprehensive, no baby steps, gun control law, hold that up for the American public and say here`s the clear choice. The Republicans will do nothing. We will do this. We`re all unified, and give the American people the choice.
I believe they will choose common sense gun reform, because they are ahead of the politicians. But the Democratic Party has to lead and put your internal politics aside and stop jockeying against the other candidate. Come up with a uniform position.
I`ve told them don`t come and campaign in this state unless you have a comprehensive gun control proposal, because you`re not going to sell in New York if you don`t have a real thorough comprehensive gun law.
VELSHI: Governor Andrew Cuomo, thanks for your time tonight. Good to talk to you.
CUOMO: Thanks. Good to talk to you, Ali.
VELSHI: Andrew Cuomo is the governor of New York.
Ahead, updates in the Jeffrey Epstein investigation, including revelations about his autopsy. That report next.
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VELSHI: The autopsy of Jeffrey Epstein`s body was completed last weekend on Sunday, just one day after he was found hanging in his cell at the metropolitan corrections center in Manhattan. But the results of the autopsy were inconclusive, and the medical examiner listed the cause of death as pending.
So that`s all the information we had for nearly a week following Epstein`s death until The Washington Post published a new revelation about the autopsy this morning, now confirmed by NBC News that, quote, among the among the broken bones in Epstein`s neck was the Hyoid bone. The post explains, quote, "such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, but they`re more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, according to experts."
The New York City chief medical examiner responded in a statement saying, quote, "in all forensic investigations, all information must be synthesized to determine the cause and manner of death. Everything must be consistent. No single finding can be evaluated in a vacuum."
Joining me now one of the reporters who broke that story, Carol Leonnig, an investigative reporter for The Washington Post and an MSNBC contributor.
Carol, I know nothing about medicine or biology or all this stuff, but the Hyoid bone is sort of around the Adam`s apple. It`s a very small bone. And tell me about what this finding means. In some percentage of cases when it`s broken, it will happen because of a suicide and some cases because of a strangulation. Tell me a little about this.
CAROL LEONNIG, THE WASHINGTON POST: So I wasn`t an expert in this either. I`m the beneficiary of a bunch of forensic pathologists who have lent their time to school us at The Post about what this means.
Most studies find that it`s unusual, atypical, for the Hyoid bone in men, right above the Adam`s apple to break during a suicide by hanging. It`s usually associated with homicidal strangulation.
VELSHI: Huh.
LEONNIG: And some of those medical examiners who have been consulting with us about this have warned me that the New York chief medical examiner in this case likely ruled that this death of Epstein was pending for cause of death was pending, because that bone sticks out as a sort of sore thumb in your facts in your case. And she wants to possibly rule out any other possibility of homicide.
For example, there are other indicia that would recommend that this is suicide, such as if he committed suicide, there would be no scratches at the neck, no skin of his own in his fingernails. There would be no defensive wounds that he incurred himself. There would be a kind of furrowing around his neck from the strangulation.
There are other indicia that would say he committed suicide. It`s not impossible that he broke this bone while trying to commit suicide, it`s just not typical. And that`s why it stands out.
There was one examiner who called me today and said I just think this is really rare. I don`t see a Hyoid bone breaking in a suicide by hanging almost ever. So it doesn`t mean that we know for sure how he died, it just means it raises more worrisome questions about the cause.
VELSHI: Right. Those questions wouldn`t be there if he was checked on as much as he might have been, or we`ve got video -- the medical examiner has work to do as a medical examiner in a morgue. How does that fit in with the fact there are others who have to interview guards, and they have to check video and they have to see what`s going on? I imagine in this particular incident those things need to come together to make a determination of what happened on Saturday.
LEONNIG: Absolutely. And I`m so glad you raised that, because there are many facts still outstanding, right? Tape, videotape of the jail. We now know that no tapes were pointed directly into Jeff Epstein`s cell. We know some tapes existed, because the Department of Justice and the Bureau of Prisons were able to determine that the staff who were on duty were asleep and didn`t check on him for more than three hours during the middle of the night before he died, the very crucial hours before he died.
So there is some video that`s worth looking at.
The death investigation will absolutely look at that. The pathologist is going to look for toxicology results. Was there anything in his system to suggest that he was actually killed by someone injecting him with something? I know that sounds nutty, but you`ve got to rule that out.
The death investigation will also interview guards and inmates. Some of the guards are going to want lawyers and not answer questions, because it goes to the heart of, you know, are you going to be able to keep your job after you explain what happened.
There are a lot of unanswered questions. But the body itself gives a lot of clues. We only know at The Washington Post about this one that doesn`t answer the question, but raises more.
VELSHI: This entire story, since the Miami Herald initially did that story last fall has had more questions associated with it than answers from the beginning to the end. Carol, thank you for your great reporting on this. Carol Leonnig of The Washington Post.
LEONNIG: Thank you.
VELSHI: Still ahead, a second 2020 Democrat drops out of the race. A former Trump campaign manager flirts with a senate bid, plus my interview with presidential candidate Jay Inslee, all in 2020.
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VELSHI: Today, President Trump all but endorsed his former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski for a possible senate run in New Hampshire, then just hours later the House Judiciary Committee subpoenaed Lewandowski.
The committee wants to compel Lewandowski to testify publicly on September 17 about his role in Trump`s attempt to limit Mueller`s investigation, a possible obstruction of justice.
The summons came just after the president himself sang Lewandowski`s praises, saying that if Lewandowski did run for the senate against Democratic incumbent in New Hampshire, he`d be a great candidate because he`s so good on TV.
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TRUMP: Well, first of all, I have to tell you that I think he would be fantastic. He`s got great energy. He`s got -- he`s terrific on television, you`ve seen.
I don`t think he`s made that decision yet.
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HAYES: Trump praised Lewandowski again just moments ago at a rally in Manchester, New Hampshire, urging him to make a decision soon.
Now, on the other side, Democrats are eager to field candidates who can boost their chance at taking back the senate. They`ve got their eyesight on former Governor John Hickenlooper of Colorado, who today ended his presidential run and said he is considering a run against incumbent Republican Senator Cory Gardner.
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JOHN HICKENLOOPER, FORMER GOVERNOR OF COLORADO: I`ve heard from so many Coloradans who want me to run for the United States Senate. They remind me how much is at stake for our country and our state. I intend to give that some serious thought.
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HAYES: There is also a push for presidential candidate Beto O`Rourke to run for Senate in Texas instead as the Houston Chronicle editorial board advocated last week. But O`Rourke is reportedly restarting his presidential campaign in the wake of the mass shootings in El Paso with a focus on gun violence.
Democrats have also pleaded with Montana governor and presidential candidate Steve Bullock to run for the senate there, but he told me definitively yesterday that he`s not going to run for the senate.
There are high stakes for all the remaining Democratic presidential candidates who have less remaining Democratic presidential candidates who have less than two weeks to qualify for the third presidential debate. And Governor Jay Inslee of Washington, one of those candidates, determined to make his case, joins me straight ahead.
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MAYOR JIM KENNEY, (D) PHILADELPHIA: It`s aggravating, it`s saddening and something we need to do something about. And if the state and federal government don`t want to stand up to the NRA and some other folks, then let us police ourself. But they preempt us on all kinds of gun control legislation.
Our officer don`t deserve to be protected and they don`t deserve to be shot at by a guy for hours with an unlimited supply of weapons and an unlimited supply of bullets. So, it`s disgusting and we`ve got to do something about it.
VELSHI: Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney is urging new action on gun violence after six police officers were shot and injured last night in an eight hour standoff with a heavily armed suspect who is now in custody.
My next guest, presidential candidate Jay Inslee, governor of Washington, has unveiled a plan to address gun violence. Governor, thank you for being with us. You and I have talked many times. We often talk about climate, a centerpiece of your campaign. But this is a very serious part of your campaign. Talk to me about your plan.
GOV. JAY INSLEE (D-WA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, we have a very comprehensive plan. I think we were one of the first candidates to roll out an attack both on white nationalism and on gun violence. We know that they are related.
We know that we have heard too much of white nationalism out of the White House. We know that the president has actually shredded our ability to attack this domestic terrorism. And we need to reinstate a very comprehensive assault by the federal government on that domestic threat that the FBI has said is one of the most serious threats in the country. And we know we also have to do what the mayor said, which is to bring common sense gun safety legislation to the fore.
We have the NRA on the run in Washington state, now we need to get them on the run in the nation. We need a president to do that.
VELSHI: How do you separate the NRA, which has really set itself up to be the organization that is supposedly speaks on behalf of gun owners, from gun owners who don`t want to go down this road that the NRA is going down, this dark road in which any common sense gun legislation is an attack on your second amendment rights. That is not what a lot of these common sense regulations are meant to be.
INSLEE: Sure, what we`re finding over the last 20 years is a very rapid shift in the American public, including gun owners to understand that common-sense gun legislation makes sense. They`re still going to keep their hunting shotguns. And that is changing dramatically.
Look, in 1994 when I was a freshman congressman, I voted to ban assault weapons knowing I`d lose my seat. And I lost my seat in congress, but I never regretted that vote for a nanosecond. It was the right vote then, it`s the right vote now.
And now so many thousands of gun owners believe as I do we have got to have this common-sense measures.
The American people have had a bellyful of this violence. They`re tired of their children going to school having to worry about gun shootings as opposed to math tests. I talked to a guy the other day -- I was at the Iowa State Fair. He said, you know for the first time I went to the Iowa State Fair and I thought about gun violence at the state fair.
So this country is ready for action, but we need a president who will stand up to the NRA. And I can`t wait to do that.
VELSHI: So, Governor Cuomo was on with me a little earlier, and he made an interesting point. And I think his suggestion was there`s not a lot of space between democratic candidates on this. For most Americans, they would say Republicans aren`t really doing much about this. Democrats want to do similar things.
And his take -- let`s listen to it together. This is what he said the Democratic presidential candidate should do.
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CUOMO: The Democrat should have one clear position where they can stand together, put their own personal politics aside and say every Democratic presidential candidate, the House, the Senate, here`s the Democratic position, a real comprehensive, no baby steps, gun control law. Hold that up for the American public and say here`s the clear choice.
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VELSHI: Interesting point. It`s kind of the view you`ve taken with climate, right, that let`s just all be on exactly the same side of this. Let`s use the highest bar and let`s all jump it.
What about doing that with guns?
INSLEE: Well, we have the highest bar, it`s my plan, right, it`s the highest bar on white nationalism, it`s the highest bar on gun safety, in part because the actual experience of doing it is one of the advantages of being a governor, of having executive leadership, where we`ve actually accomplished this goal and more.
Look, we`ve had some of the strongest laws, because I was able to pass them, some of which through -- in a bipartisan basis. So, we need that kind of leadership.
And so I`m glad that Governor Cuomo has endorsed my position, how`s that?
VELSHI: Fair enough.
I want to talk to you about a Ninth Circuit court ruling upholding the ruling that children held at the border must have adequate food, bedding and sanitation.
INSLEE: What a radical thought.
VELSHI: Right. But I think a lot of our viewers may not know is that the Trump administration argued that it is not obligatory for them to provide soap and toothbrushes and things like this.
It`s weird that we need a court ruling to tell them that, but this is kind of remarkable.
INSLEE: Well, listen, we know this happens all the time with the administration. Our state has now sued Donald Trump and won 21 times in a row. We won on the Muslim ban. I was the first governor to stand against the Muslim ban. We`re going to win some environmental measures and already have. And today he tried to shred our air pollution laws and our clean air laws.
And this is ridiculous for him, and it`s a window into the vacuity of his - - the vacuum of his soul that he is willing to expose children to these inhumane conditions.
Now, one of the reasons we won is we`ve got a good AG, Bob Ferguson, but the other thing is is we still have a democracy and that is worth fighting for and that includes in the judicial system.
Listen, this reminded me of -- I was just talking to someone before I came here, what Ben Franklin said when they signed the constitution. He walked out of the hall and somebody asked him, what is it, a monarchy or a republic? And he said it`s a republic if you can keep it.
Now, we`ve got to fight to keep that. And that means going to court and beating this guy.
VELSHI: I never actually -- I never understood what he meant by that until you live in these times and you actually have to fight for it.
INSLEE: Now you see it.
If you become president, you might be there in the midst of the effort to buy Greenland, you know, about Donald Trump is apparently investigating buying Greenland.
INSLEE: Well, we prefer that he not continue down this path of allowing unchecked climate change to melt Greenland so he can make his new golf course. We would prefer to keep the ice cap.
As you know, I think this is a -- should be the first job of the next president. I`m certainly saying that. If anybody agrees with me, by the way, they can make sure I`m not next debate stage and go to JayInslee.com and send a buck to make sure I`m on the debate stage.
We need to keep the ice in Greenland rather than the next Mar-a-Lago. That`s what I believe.
VELSHI: Governor Jay Inslee, good to see you in person. Thank you for being with us. We will see you September 19 and 20 at the climate forum.
INSLEE: Thank you.
VELSHI: Look forward to that.
That is ALL IN for this evening. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts now. Good evening, Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END