Trump battles self-made crises as markets tumble. TRANSCRIPT: 8/14/19, All In w/ Chris Hayes.
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: I`m glad to see her out there making this
position clear as hell. We Americans believe in the promise of good
Friday. That`s HARDBALL for now. “ALL IN” with Chris Hayes starts right
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALI VELSHI, MSNBC ANCHOR: Tonight on ALL IN.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A major sell-off here on Wall Street today.
VELSHI: Stocks plummet on growing recession fears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the curve inverts tens to twos bad things usually
happen regarding the economy.
VELSHI: Tonight, what we know about what`s happening to the American
economy and what the President is doing about it.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our economy is doing great.
VELSHI: Then –
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Moscow Mitch says that he is the grim reaper.
VELSHI: New reporting on the Kremlin ties to Kentucky as Democrats turn up
the heat on Mitch McConnell. Plus, the growing calls for Donald Trump`s
Attorney General to recuse himself from anything having to do with Jeffrey
Epstein. And new bipartisan outrage over Steve King.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rape and incest? What were you trying to say, sir?
VELSHI: As the congressman sets up another firestorm.
REP. STEVE KING (R-IA): What if we went back to all the family trees and
just pulled those people out who was a product of rape and incest?
VELSHI: ALL IN starts now.
KING: Would there be any population of the world left if we did that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Good evening from New York, I`m Ali Velshi in for Chris Hayes.
It`s been another day of crazy volatility in the Trump economy. The Dow
Jones Industrial Average dropped more than 800 points. That`s more than
three percent. That makes it the biggest drop of this year.
The reason, investors are seeing signs that a recession could be on the
horizon. And this man running this country, a man who constantly boasts
about his business talents, the man who would be responsible for navigating
the country through an upcoming recession is a guy who could not make money
in the casino business. A guy who had to be put on a budget back in 1990
because of his inability to manage his own money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: $10 million, of course, is a lot of money but it`s not
enough to cover Donald Trump for a full two years. He manages to go
through more than a half a million dollars a month for just personal
So today when a group of banks came up with $20 million in loans to help
him through his business difficulties, they put him on a personal allowance
of sorts. NBC Chief Financial Correspondent Mike Jensen tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: DONALD Trump this morning after he signed for his new
loan. As part of the deal, he`s been put on a personal allowance. He`ll
have to scrape by on $450,000 a month. Next year he`ll be cut back to
$375,000, and the year after that to $300,000. By comparison in one recent
month, Donald`s spent $583,000 on personal expenses.
As for today`s events, Donald Trump says he made great deal, a fantastic
deal that his empire is intact and he`s running it. But the bankers have
another story. One of them told me in our view, he`s in bankruptcy but
instead of the courts presiding over a restructuring, we`re doing it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: So this afternoon as the stock market was tumbling, President
Trump was definitely not panicking. As the market was moving lower and
lower, Trump unleashed two tweets where he managed to brag about his trade
war with China, lie about the economy, blame the Fed and its chairman and
demonstrated clear lack of understanding about how global economies work.
“We are winning big time against China. Companies and jobs are fleeing.
Prices to us have not gone up and in some cases have come down. China is
not our problem though Hong Kong is not helping. Our problem is with the
Fed, raised too much too fast. Now slow to cut. Spread is way too much as
other countries say. Thank you to clueless Jay Powell and the Federal
Reserve. Germany and many others are playing the game. Crazy inverted
yield curve we should easily be reaping big rewards and gains but the Fed
is holding us back. We will win.”
I`m not going to read that again. You`ll have to go to the tweet to
actually see that because it is a lot. But to be fair, recessions happen.
The United States has actually overdue for one. But given the indicators
that a recession could be around the corner, why would the president
continue to exacerbate the situation?
His signature legislative achievement was huge tax cuts for corporations
and the wealthy. Tax cuts that a study by the Congressional Research
Service found had little to no impact on the economy. He continues to
escalate his trade war with China even after admitting that his tariffs
harm American consumers.
Politico reported before today`s big stock market dropped that, “Instead of
blaming a Fed, Wall Street economists are citing Trump himself as the
biggest anchor on markets and the economy. A recession is the last thing
Donald Trump wants as he is up for re-election next year.
In fact, the last time the U.S. was in the middle of a significant economic
downturn back in 2008 when President George W. Bush was in office, that
recession worked against the Republican presidential candidate Senator John
Joining me now is someone who was right in the middle of that campaign Mark
Zandi, Chief Economic Advisor for John McCain`s 2008 Presidential Campaign.
He`s the Chief Economist of Moody`s Analytics. I`m also joined by Jennifer
Rubin Washington Post Columnist and an MSNBC Contributor, and John Harwood
Editor at Large for CNBC and host of the CNBC digital series Speakeasy with
John Harwood. Welcome to all of you.
Mark, makes sense of what is going on today, not the president`s tweet. I
won`t ask you to take on such a heavy lift, but about what happened that
has caused the biggest percentage drop on the market this entire year.
MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, MOODY`S ANALYTICS: Well, I think, investors
are coming to the conclusion that recession risks are uncomfortably high in
rising and the principal reason for that is the President`s tariffs or
trade war. It`s doing a lot of damage to the economy. Business investment
is flatlined since the trade war got going about a year ago, exports were
And what we learned yesterday was the global economy is now very close to
recession. The German economy actually contracted last quarter. The
British economy contracted last quarter, and China is also struggling. So
the entire global economy including the United States is closer to
recession. And I think investors are very panicked by it.
VELSHI: Mark, in fairness we`ve had a long time since the last recession.
It`s been more than ten years. That`s longer – much longer than the
average. It`s almost double the average. And in theory, the average is
five years and nine months since 1945. We`re at ten years and two months.
Why does the president not acknowledge these facts? Why does the president
continue – last night I was on here talking about the number of times the
president tweets or says that this is the best economy America has ever
had. He doesn`t – he doesn`t speak to this weakness at all.
ZANDI: Well, no. He`s going to – he`s going to have no options pretty
soon because – and I think it`s going to start resonating with him in with
the American people once it becomes clear that job growth is slowing to the
point that unemployment is going to rise, and we`re pretty close to that
I mean, we saw last year – I`ll just give you some numbers. Last year,
average monthly job growth in the U.S. was about 225,000. In the last
three, six months, subtracting from the volatility today, we`re down to one
140K, and if growth slows to less than 100, then at that point unemployment
Once unemployment starts to rise, I think I`ve become patently obvious to
everybody including the president that the economy struggling and recession
risks are high.
VELSHI: And Jennifer Rubin, this does cost political parties even when
they`re in a strong position. It would cost a president who was in a
strong position. At some point, this has got to be worrisome for
Republicans who can`t prevent a recession certainly but they could
certainly admonish the president to not make things worse on the global
JENNIFER RUBIN, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. I don`t think he can help making
it worse. One of the reasons of course that the stock market is dropping
like a stone it`s because they figured out he really is a protectionist.
He`s not involved in some fifth-dimensional chess to try to get the Chinese
to capitulate. He really doesn`t know what he`s doing and he really is out
to I think remain at loggerheads with the Chinese for a very long time.
But Ali, you`re right. For good presidents who have lots of other
accomplishments, a bad economy is going to be bad news. Look at George
Bush 41. He had just won a war. His approval ratings were at 90, but the
economy went into a little bit of a dip. He was voted out by Bill Clinton.
Fast forward to 2008. The economy went into the toilet when George W. Bush
43 was in office and of course, the Democratic Party made hay out of that.
And those were both presidents who had other accomplishments that they
could point to and were generally likable people.
The economy is really all Donald Trump has and he`s taken ownership of it.
So his idea of blaming the Fed or blaming Democrats, I just don`t think
it`s going to fly.
VELSHI: John Harwood, I have to say, you and I spent a lot of time trying
to make – as do Jennifer and Mark – trying to make economic concepts
accessible to people. That tweet that the president sent out, you need a
Ph.D. on something to understand what he was talking about.
He was attacking kind of everybody in one fell swoop. He`s talking about
Germany, he talked about the Fed. The Federal Reserve, he wants the Fed to
continue to lower interest rates. The Federal Reserve can use those
interest rates and lower them at a time when it needs to do so to you know,
to help the economy, to boost the economy a little bit. Is there a danger
in the president pressing for interest rate cuts now?
JOHN HARWOOD, CNBC EDITOR AT LARGE: Well, there`s a broader danger of the
president infringing on the independence of the Fed and making people
interpret Fed actions as being in response to pressure. The belief that
the Federal Reserve is independent is an important economic asset for the
United States as part of the credibility of the United States government,
the United States economy.
Look, the reality is – and the key phrase in what Jennifer just said is he
doesn`t know what he`s doing. Now, in most cases, the government can just
roll along despite the president not being interested in it or not knowing
much about issues. But on tariffs which he can take action unilaterally
without constraint by Congress, he really has the opportunity to make this
economy stumble and fall into recession.
The expansion`s tend to end. It`s been going on for about ten years now.
It might stumble no matter what the president did, but he`s giving it a
shove with these tariffs.
VELSHI: Mark Zandi, my producers made me swear that I would not use the
term inverted yield curve on the show so I`m not doing that. But the
description of those three words, I`ve tried to describe to people to say
it is like – if you look at that, that`s the downturn in the – in the
graph before each of these recessions so that`s why we worry about it.
It is – it`s like a tornado warning. It doesn`t tell you that a tornado
is going to happen. It tells you the conditions for a tornado are present.
ZANDI: Although this is a pretty prescient tornado warning. I mean, in
the last 50 years, the yield curve has predicted every single recession and
it`s never falsely predicted a recession. So you know, this is a pretty
Now listen, you know, there are arguments why this time may be different
but I`ll have to say, you know, look at my hairline. I`ve seen a lot of
business cycles. I`ve been through a lot of inverted yield curves. Every
single time economists including me come out and say don`t worry, this time
is different, here are the reasons why. So you know, I take everything –
take that all the grace off.
The other thing I`d say is look, even if the yield curve inversion isn`t
signaling recession, what it is surely signaling is a much slower economy
in 2020, and the economy is going to be vulnerable to anything else things
and go wrong.
And by the way, there`s a boatload of things that can go wrong. Just go
look at China, go – you know, go look at the Brexit, go look at the VAT
increase the Japanese we`re going to try to implement, and that doesn`t
even count all the geopolitical you know, hot spots all over the world. So
we are very vulnerable here.
Jennifer Rubin, we haven`t even gotten to the fact that Donald Trump
continues to tell everybody that everything`s fine with agriculture and
farmers in this country, and that the effects of trade are paid for by the
Chinese and not by Americans. Tell that to a farmer in Iowa right now.
At some point Americans are going to – this is going to be laid bare for
them the effects of this trade war.
RUBIN: That`s right. And some people think the day of reckoning at least
for the farm community is coming up in fall is when they usually get all
the money after they`ve harvest their crops. And if that doesn`t come in,
and they look at the welfare which is essentially what he`s giving them in
exchange for raising tariffs and making their markets inaccessible, I think
there`s going to be some real questions even in places that have supported
But just going back to the hated inverted yield curve for just a moment.
VELSHI: Just on the record, I didn`t say it, right? You all said it.
RUBIN: You didn`t, you didn`t. It was me. It was me. Tell your
producers. What that signals is that people expect because of Donald Trump
the future looks hazy, the future looks scary. And that`s when people run
into bonds because bonds are safe. More demand will lower the yield on
So it makes sense with this president stirring up so much chaos, so much
uncertainty, that there would be a bit of a flight to bonds. And frankly,
his pressure to keep cutting interest rates, a lot of people think Jerome
Powell did the right thing. But frankly, if we hit a recession, we don`t
have that much to work with. We don`t have that much to work with fiscally
and we don`t have that much to work with from a monetary policy.
VELSHI: We`re not in remarkably strange – strong position at the moment.
John Harwood, if you could using all your experience say hey, if you didn`t
do this, this is the stuff that you could do to try and not make the
situation worse. What would that involve?
Would that involve figuring out a way to get to the end of this trade war,
at least look like there`s something going on there? Would it be stop
badgering the Fed? What does it look like? What does success look like
here for the president?
HARWOOD: Well, it would involve pulling back on some of these tariffs and
having a more rational approach to the trade war. Remember, the president
gave away some of his leverage at the beginning of his administration by
pulling out of the trans-pacific partnership and alienating our allies both
in Asia, and in Europe, and Canada, and Mexico with all sorts of saber-
rattling about alleged economic misbehavior.
You`ve got to get allies together to confront China that the Trans-Pacific
Partnership was going to bring together 40 percent of the world economy.
The president also is fixated on the bilateral trade deficit, how much
stuff we buy from the Chinese as if that is some sort of a negative in and
of itself, it is not.
If the president wants to focus on things like China stealing our
intellectual property, that —those are valid concerns, but you`ve got to
go about it the right way, not by slapping tariffs here and there, doing it
erratically undercutting your own negotiators which is what the president`s
I talked to Carla Hills who was a Trade Representative under a Republican
president, a cabinet member under a different Republican president who said
it is tragic the way this situation with China has been handled from the
VELSHI: Thanks to the three of you, Mark Zandi, Jennifer Rubin, and John
Harwood. We appreciate you helping us kick off tonight. Still ahead, why
today`s new lawsuit against the estate of Jeffrey Epstein could be the
first of many. The ongoing investigations after this.
VELSHI: Breaking news in Philadelphia tonight where six police officers
have been shot in a standoff with a gunman who is now holed up inside a
house. Police still describe the situation as active and ongoing and
officers are attempting to negotiate the gunman surrender.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD ROSS, COMMISSIONER, PHILADELPHIA POLICE: The critical thing to
tell you that I did not tell you is I have you know, some situation we are
worried about, potential hostage situation so we got to get this off, all
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: All right, here with me now by phone NBC 10 reporter Aaron
Baskerville who is in Philadelphia reporting on this story. Aaron, what`s
AARON BASKERVILLE, NBC 10 REPORTER: Well, right, you just heard the
Commissioner talking. He just came out about ten minutes ago gave a brief
statement and said he had to rush back to the scene. Right now I`m near
Erie and Sydenham, north of Philadelphia. We`re about two miles north of
And right now I`m staring at about 20 to 30 officers. Some are taking a
defensive position behind cars, arms just kind of waiting for this
situation to die down. What we know so far this all happened around 4:30
this afternoon. They were serving a warrant for drugs at a house. A bunch
of officers rushed inside that house, made it to the back of the house by
the kitchen and then all of a sudden they started taking on gunfire.
The Commissioner described officers jumping out of windows, jumping out of
doors to stop the barrage of fire to get away from it. Other officers were
coming in the door as well taking on that gunfire. As you know by now, six
officers have been shot. The good news right now, none of those are life-
threatening. They`re at two different hospitals out here in the North
But the situation is ongoing. The Commissioner describing this gunman
shooting out of the window, hitting the SWAT truck, hitting buildings
across the street. I can tell you personally, I`ve been out here for about
three and a half hours. I`ve heard at least 50 to 60 different gunshot.
BASKERVILLE: It`s a quick volley of shots, seven to eight shots, then it
would die down for about five minutes, another seven to eight shots rapid
fire, died down. I mean, where I`m standing out, neighbors were you know,
diving under cars, diving on the sidewalk, screaming, running. As you can
imagine, a very, very tense situation and it`s still going on as we speak
VELSHI: Can you give me some clarity as to what the Commissioner was
saying about a hostage situation?
BASKERVILLE: Yes. There possibly maybe some others inside that house
right now that he`s concerned about. He wouldn`t go into detail at all.
He basically said that comment. I`ve got to rush back to the scene where
it`s going on right now. He was outside the hospital at that point because
he`s worried about a possible hostage situation.
He would not elaborate. We are believing that he is scared for some folks
that are still in that house right now. I know nearby, there was a daycare
and about 80 kids were escorted out of a daycare that was nearby.
Parents, of course, were extremely worried that their kids were still kind
of basically holed up themselves in the daycare nearby. I can tell you
that they`ve evacuated some of the homes where I`m standing but still,
where I`m at, there`s still this defensive position, still officers behind
car doors, behind the vehicles, and everybody is just waiting for this to
The Commissioner also said they attempted to talk to this guy several times
by bullhorn, by phone. Apparently, he`s picked up the phone several times
but didn`t talk or make any comment. So they are urging this guy to just
give up and so there`s no more injuries out here.
VELSHI: What a story, Aaron. Thanks for your coverage of this. Aaron
Baskerville from NBC 10 on the phone with us from the scene in
Philadelphia. All right, turning now to a new law that just went into
effect in New York State starting today. Childhood victims of sexual abuse
can sue their perpetrators.
The law, the Child Victims Act applies to victims who were previously
barred from suing due to the statute of limitations. The law gives victims
one year to file those cases starting today. As of the close of business
today, 427 cases were filed pursuant to the Child Victims Act according to
a tally by NBC News.
The defendants in those lawsuits include the Roman Catholic Church, the Boy
Scouts, and the late Jeffrey Epstein.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER ARAOZ, ACCUSER OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN: I just did what I was – what
he told me to do. I was really scared. I didn`t necessarily think that he
was you know, going to rape me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he hold you there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Jeffrey Epstein rape you?
ARAOZ: Yes, he raped me. He forcefully raped me. He know exactly what he
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Today, that individual, Jennifer Araoz filed one of the first
civil lawsuits against the estate of Jeffrey Epstein saying he raped her
when she was 15 years old and alleging his co-conspirators groomed her for
sex when she was 14 years old as part of his sex trafficking ring.
The co-conspirators alleged in the lawsuit include Ghislaine Maxwell, Mr.
Epstein`s longtime confidant, and Jane Doe`s one through three who are
three unnamed household staffers referred to in the lawsuit as the
recruiter, the secretary, and the maid. Additional civil suits against
Jeffrey Epstein`s estate are likely.
Meanwhile, despite his death, the criminal investigation into his alleged
co-conspirators is ongoing. That criminal investigation by the Southern
District of New York is overseen by the Justice Department and Attorney
General William Barr.
Our next guest former U.S. Attorney Joyce Vance has called on Barr to
recuse himself with regard to the Epstein investigation. Joyce Vance is
also an MSNBC Legal Analyst. She joins us now. Joyce, what`s the basis on
which you are calling for William Barr to recuse himself.
JOYCE VANCE, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: So I should be clear Allie that I don`t
make the argument because I believe that Barr is actually going to recuse.
I think the sad reality here is that he won`t. But the reason he should
recuse is because he has both conflicts of interests. Conflicts that he
has apparently decided don`t want recusal, but also those conflicts give
rise to an appearance of impropriety.
That means that people in the public can`t have confidence that he`s a
neutral decision-maker. And when you have someone like that in a position
of control over an important investigation like the one into Epstein`s
death and the ongoing criminal cases, it causes the public to lose
confidence in the Justice Department.
DOJ has already stretched too thin. We can`t afford to have any more loss
in its reputation and integrity.
VELSHI: What`s the – what`s the conflict that you see that he`s got?
VANCE: You know, he has a number of conflicts starting with the fact that
at his confirmation hearing. He indicated that his former law firm had
done some work on behalf of Epstein and he would look into whether that
warranted recusal. But also, Alex Acosta, his former colleague, the former
Labor Secretary was involved in the plea agreement down in Florida for
Acosta which has caused so much concern. Their relationship certainly is
some form of a conflict.
And then we have this really curious family detail that the attorney
general`s father hired a very young Jeffrey Epstein when he was a college
dropout to teach calculus and physics at the prep school that he was the
headmaster of in New York City.
So even if these aren`t a formal recusal conflict issue, in combination,
they create such an appearance of impropriety. The Attorney General should
have stepped away and let the Deputy Attorney General or someone else
oversee this matter.
VELSHI: Republican Senator Ben Sasse has called upon the Department of
Justice to take that deal that was cut in Florida, the one that led up the
investigation into that, the reporting from the Miami Herald and rip it up.
Tell me about that. Is that even doable?
VANCE: What really needs to happen here is a full-on investigation into
what happened and perhaps an investigation by the Office of Professional
Responsibility. You can`t really be the government and rip up a plea
agreement down the road in the absence of very unusual circumstances –
VELSHI: Because that affect your ability to make on our deals.
VANCE: Well, it does. And also the rules of criminal procedure very
strongly favor the finality of plea agreements. So you can`t walk in down
the road a decade later and say I take it back. But that doesn`t mean that
if you`re someone who`s engaged in criminal conduct that you can`t be
prosecuted in this case other federal districts or even by state
So it`s not like the government is without a way of dealing with the air
that was made in the plea agreement or would have been had Epstein not died
VELSHI: You know, usually prosecutors when you`re trying to get somebody
at the head of something work your way up. You find people who are junior
to that person and get them to turn or get them to somehow testify.
Now, in this case, because Jeffrey Epstein is gone, we have been hearing
since day one that there are other people involved in this thing. Does the
investigation that was underway with Jeffrey Epstein, does that die and
does that have to start again? And why isn`t – why hasn`t something
happened already given that we do know that there are other people who are
consistently referred to by these alleged victims?
VANCE: So in a federal case, when a defendant dies a criminal case the
prosecution comes to an end. That`s true. Even if Epstein had been
convicted at trial and the case had been on appeal and he and died on
appeal, the death of a defendant signals the end of that case.
As you point out though, Epstein was charged as a co-conspirator in a sex
trafficking conspiracy. Presumably, that means that there are other people
out there who are criminally culpable conspirators. And I expect based on
the statement made by the U.S. Attorney in Southern District of New York
that at the point where he believes he has sufficient evidence to convict
those co-conspirators, he intends to move forward even with Epstein no
longer in the picture.
VELSHI: Joyce, thank you for joining us as always, Joyce Vance. Coming up
next, new questions about Mitch McConnell`s role in lifting sanctions for a
Russian company that then invested millions into Kentucky. That new
reporting after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R) KENTUCKY: Over the last several days, I was
called unpatriotic, unAmerican, and essentially treasonous by a couple of
left wing pundits on the basis of bold-faced lies.
(END VIDE CLIP)
VELSHI: If there is one thing we know it`s that Senate Majority Leader
Mitch McConnell hates the nickname Moscow Mitch, a nickname he earned late
last month for his failure to bring bills to the floor that would protect
U.S. elections from Russian interference. That moniker has spread widely
since. Kentucky Democrats are selling all kinds of Moscow Mitch merch.
There`s a new song titled Moscow Mitch from musician Ben Folds. And today,
the speaker of the House picked up the nickname.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) CALIFORNIA: They sent our legislation to the
Senate. Moscow Mitch says that he is the Grim Reaper. Imagine describing
yourself as the Grim Reaper, that he is going to bury all this
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: But it`s not just Mitch McConnell`s unwillingness to protect
elections that have earned him the Moscow Mitch label. Tonight, there are
new questions about McConnell`s role in lifting sanctions on a Russian
company that then turned around and invested millions in a massive Kentucky
One of the reporters who wrote that incredibly detailed story for Time
magazine, Vera Bergengruen, joins us tonight. Vera, thank you for being
It is a remarkable story. It is a story of an industry that was going to
come to an economically
depressed part of Kentucky, northeastern Kentucky, promised great paying
jobs. It made a lot of sense. They were going to take big slabs of
aluminum, flatten them out and make them into cars and soda cans and things
And then it turned out that the only person they could partner with was
Oleg Deripaska`s company, a Russian company, that was being sanctioned and
suspected for involvement in the Russian interference into the U.S.
election. What happened next?
VERA BERGENGRUEN, TIME MAGAZINE WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right. And so
basically what happens is the CEO of this company ends up talking to his
lawyers saying I know it`s illegal to actually go and talk to them because
the sanctions are still on, but I think I`m going to take the risk and do
that. So we reveal that he actually went to Zurich and met with Rusal when
sanctions were still in place. He is careful to say they didn`t do any
negotiations, they were just talking. And then a couple of – one day –
two days later, the – a senate push to actually block the sanctions from
being lifted end up being thwarted partly, because of the efforts of Mitch
McConnell. And then the sanctions were lifted as they were meant to be.
And, you know, three months later, this company invested $200 million in
this Kentucky aluminum mill.
VELSHI: Ahead of the 2018 mid-term elections, according to your story, one
of Rusal`s long-time major shareholders, Len Blavatnik, contributed more
than $1 million through his companies to a GOP campaign fund tied to
McConnell. So, this isn`t just speculative out there circumstantial stuff,
there does seem to be stronger relationship.
BERGENGRUEN: Right. But I think what our story really shows is that while
– you know, when you go Kentucky, you`re seeing the Democrats are, like
you said, they`re selling this merchandise. There are these big billboards
kind of saying, you know, Russian mob money and blaming Mitch McConnell.
But if McConnell hadn`t tried to block this push, the sanctions would
probably still have been lifted. You know, European countries were really
putting a lot of pressure on the U.S.
And so what our story kind of shows is really why is it so easy for Russia
post the Mueller report, post everything, to have this kind of economic
influence? You know, they`re using U.S. lobbyists, U.S. banker, U.S.
donations, all of that in order to kind of get their way.
VELSHI: And soon after, again, from your story, soon after the Kentucky
deal was announced,
Lord Barker sent a letter to the governors of eight more U.S. states. In
the April 18 note, he touted the benefits of the Rusal investment and said
the company was, quote, eager to evaluate other opportunities around the
country and your state in particular.
So not only did it happen, but in fact it`s touted as a success. And I get
that. I get why in an economically depressed part of the country, a CEO
who can raise that kind of investment to bring industry and good paying
jobs would take it.
What is Mitch McConnell`s response to this?
BERGENGRUEN: You know, he said it had absolutely nothing to do with his
stance on sanctions, that he was just kind of following the Treasury
Department`s move, and that he had no idea it was going to benefit his home
We do know that afterwards, you know, the CEO of the company says that he
is a big fan. You know, they`ve met afterwards. But, again, what is
really interesting is that in Kentucky, the governor, Matt Bevin, ended up
kind of – he ended up investing $15 million of Kentucky taxpayer money as
well. So there is a lot of people in Mitch McConnell`s state who are
really upset about that, because they say that they feel now tied to Oleg
Deripaska`s former – you know, his company, and that they feel that
they`re all somehow involved.
So, it`s really a tangled web in terms of how this deal came about.
VELSHI: Vera, thank you for your thorough reporting on this. Vera
Bergengruen of Time magazine.
BERGENGRUEN: Thank you.
VELSHI: All right, coming up next, despite having lowered the bar for
decorum befitting elected officials, Steve King still manages to trip over
it, now sparking bipartisan condemnation.
What he said, after this.
VELSHI: He is a Republican congressman who has promoted Neo-Nazis,
repeatedly disparaged immigrants, and questioned what`s so offensive about
the notion of white nationalism. And today he is suggesting that humanity
itself would not exist without rape and incest.
Congressman Steve King, Republican of Iowa, made the remarks while
discussing his push for a bill that would basically make all abortions
illegal, even in case of rape and incest. Here is his reasoning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. STEVE KING, (R) IOWA: What if we went back through all the family
trees and just pulled those people out that were products of rape and
incest, would there be any population of the world left if we did that,
considering all the wars and all the rape and pillage that`s taken place
and whatever happened in culture (inaudible) society, I know I can`t
certify that I`m not a part of a product of that. And I would like thank
every one of the lives of us are as precious as any other life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: I`ve heard some weird arguments in my life, but that one`s
According to the Des Moines Register, King added, quote, “it`s not the
baby`s fault for the sin of the father or the mother.”
Now, Congressman King is not exactly new to this type of controversy. As
you may remember, House Republicans stripped him of all his committee
assignments back in January after The New York
Times quoted him as saying white nationalists, white supremacists, western
civilization, how did that
language become offensive?
His latest comments prompted calls for him to resign from Congresswoman Liz
chair of the House Republican Conference, as well as a slew of Democratic
presidential candidates starting with Senator Kirsten Gillibrand who
tweeted simply, “you are a disgrace. Resign.”
NBC News tried to get King to clarify his rape and incest comments this
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: NBC News. John Voxley (ph) of NBC News.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s got a call to make.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me, excuse me. Your comments, Mr. King, what
trying to say? What`s your point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s got a call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your colleagues have talked about…
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s got a really important call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your colleagues have talked about you resigning.
They`re asking for your resignation. What do you have to say, sir? Sir?
What were you trying to say? What was your point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s got a call here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rape and incest. What were you trying to say, sir
What was your point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you trying to say. What do you have to say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Why did he clam up all of the sudden?
I`m joined now by journalist Laura Bassett who covers the intersection of
politics and reproductive rights and has written for outlets including The
Washington Post, HuffPost and GQ.
Laura, I don`t even know what question to start with, but I will start with
this one. Is Steve King, the view he articulated about this weird defense
of why abortion should be illegal in all cases, is that the mainstream of
Republican thought or is he an outlier?
LAURA BASSETT, JOURNALIST: He`s – OK, so there is a couple of different
questions I think within your question, Ali. And a lot of Republicans,
both the state level and the federal level, have argued that rape and
incest should not be exceptions to abortion.
What`s different here is that Steve King is using the opposite argument.
Most Republicans, including famously Todd Aiken in 2012, say we don`t think
there should be exceptions for rape and incest because those situations are
so rare. Aiken notoriously said women can`t become pregnant if it`s a
legitimate rape, because the body has a way to shut that whole thing down.
VELSHI: Right, it`s the first time we had all heard the term legitimate
BASSETT: The first – right, legitimate rape. That was a Todd Aiken
Now Steve King seems to be taking the opposite logic here saying not only
is it common to have pregnancy result from rape, it`s normal, you and I
wouldn`t exist without it. The entire human population wouldn`t exist
So he is essentially normalizing rape and incest, which it`s alarming and
bizarre. I haven`t heard – I mean, Republicans have been stumbling over
themselves for years, trying to excuse their opposition to rape and incest
options. This is a new one, though.
VELSHI: Right, so to the extent that one could have an intellectual
argument about the fact that there has been a lot of rape and incest
throughout history and that hence some percentage of humanity is the
outcome of that, I`ve never seen those two put together as an argument for
BASSETT: It`s baffling to me. You would think Republicans would have
learned their lesson by now.
VELSHI: You would think.
BASSETT: Talking about rape and abortion never goes well for them,
especially in an election year. It really backfires. And that`s why
we`re seeing a lot of people in leadership, Republican leadership
especially, be really frustrated with Steve King right now.
VELSHI: There is some polling from June and July of this year when we were
talking a great deal about abortion legislation in the United States, 27
percent of Americans think that abortions should be legal in all cases, 14
percent think it should be illegal in all cases. And generally speaking,
when talking about all cases, we`re talking incest and rape.
Here is my question for you, Liz Cheney, not too many Republicans have
Steve King resigning, she is one of them. She has done this in the past,
by the way. But even when they stripped him of his committee
responsibilities earlier this year, I`ve been covering Steve King for
years, this stuff is not all that new. It always ends up being kind of
remarkable that he thinks up a new way of being offensive, but the idea
that he has been doing this goes back years.
BASSETT: You`re right, Ali. I`ve been covering him since 2010 as well.
And he has been saying – he was always the crazy quotes in my articles
whenever I covered House hearings on abortion. He has been saying the
craziest things for years.
And we need to remember that as recently as 2016, he was the national co-
chair of Ted Cruz`s presidential campaign. This is not some fringe
Republican, this is a guy that has been embraced by very mainstream members
of the party.
And earlier this year, Republicans had a chance to expel him. They had a
chance to formally censure him, and they didn`t do either of those things.
They stripped him of his committee assignments, which sure, it`s something.
But he is still writing and voting on federal laws.
VELSHI: Right. And according to the Des Moines Register story quoting his
comments today, King said there was a plan for Donald Trump to criticize
him as well. This is talking about when he was pulled from his committee
assignments. But he met with Trump and said there is no signal from Donald
Trump that he is anything other than supportive of me.
Now, we don`t know whether that`s true, but we haven`t heard from Donald
Trump that it`s not true.
BASSETT: Well, Trump supports a lot of the things that Steve King says.
Trump hasn`t condemned white nationalism very strongly. A lot of his
supporters are the same people that elected Steve King.
Steve King denigrates immigrants, has compared immigrates to dogs, said
they have cantaloupe calves pulling drugs over the border. I mean, Trump
has said a lot of these things and used a lot of the same language. So, if
Trump does come out and condemn Steve King, it`s going to be because his
hand was forced by other people in his administration.
VELSHI: I think it`s worth playing what Steve King said to Chris Hayes in
2016 apropos of what you just said. Let`s listen to what he said about
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Where did any other subgroup of people contribute more to
HAYES: Than white people?
KING: Than western civilization itself that`s rooted in western Europe,
eastern Europe and the United States of America and every place where the
footprint of Christianity settled the world. That`s all of western
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: That`s the language that white supremacists and white nationalists
do tend to use, that civilization came from Europe, America. It carries
the flag for white culture and everybody else is kind of messing it up a
BASSETT: Yeah. I used to work at Huff Post. My colleague Chris Mathias
(ph) over there has been beating this drum for over a year now. He wrote
the headline a year ago”Steve King is a white supremacist and he is still
in congress and he is not being kicked out.” I mean, we`ve known this for
a long time. This is nothing new.
VELSHI: Laura, thanks for joining me tonight. Laura Bassett is us tonight
on this story
BASSETT: Thank you for having me.
VELSHI: Coming up, many 2020 candidates are still fighting to qualify for
the next debate, prompting renewed calls for someone who drop out and run
for senate. We`re going talk than ahead.
VELSHI: The number of Democrats supporting a Trump impeachment inquiry is
ticking upward almost daily. New Mexico Congresswoman Deb Holland is the
latest to join the ranks, and she will explain how she arrived at her
decision to my colleague, Lawrence O`Donnell, tonight on The Last
Word at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Right here on this show last night, California
Democrat Ro Khanna told me where he stands.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RO KHANNA, (D) CALIFORNIA: I support Nadler. I support the
impeachment inquiry. I haven`t gone on television calling for it, because
Nadler has a process. And he has a timeline. And I didn`t want to put
pressure on him based on that timeline. He wanted to make sure we filed
the court hearing against McGahn. He did that.
Now we`re in an inquiry and I support him on that.
VELSHI: Does that mean you could be added to the 120?
KHANNA: For sure if they want to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: OK. So Ro Khanna is added to the list and he`s on the list. What
about Jerry Nadler?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JERROLD NADLER, (D) NEW YORK: This is formal impeachment proceedings.
We are investigating all the evidence. We`re gathering the evidence. And
we will at the conclusion of this, hopefully by the end of the year, vote
to – vote articles of impeachment to the House floor, or we won`t. That`s
a decision that we`ll have to make. But that – that`s exactly the process
we`re in right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: So, Nadler and Khanna and Holland put it at 123. The appetite for
clearly growing. But the number that matters right now is actually 26.
That`s how many days are left until congress comes back from recess and we
get to see what they do with all this momentum.
But before then, the 20-plus Democrats currently running to replace Donald
Trump will find out who has made the next debate. The deadline to qualify
is just two weeks away. Only nine candidates have qualified so far – Joe
Biden, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Kamala Harris, Amy Klobuchar, Beto
O`Rourke, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Andrew Yang.
And with the field whittling down, there are renewed pushes for some of the
candidates to drop out of the presidential race and run for the senate in
their home states against potentially vulnerable Republican incumbents.
The New York Times reported yesterday that former Colorado Governor John
Hickenlooper, quote, “is giving serious considering to switching to the
A few days ago, the Houston Chronicle`s editorial board told Beto O`Rourke
he should think about doing the same writing, quote, “drop out of the race
for president and come back to Texas to run for senator. The chances of
winning the race you`re now in are vanishingly small and Texas needs you.”
And earlier today, I asked presidential candidate and Montana Governor
Steve Bullock whether he is thinking about running for senate instead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: A lot of people don`t know you. This is a hard slog to run for
president. And there are a lot of people who when they get to know think,
wow he`d be great in the United States Senate. They said that.
STEVE BULLOCK, GOVERNOR OF MONTANA AND 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You
know, we`re going have a good candidate certainly to compete in 2020.
VELSHI: So you`re not putting your mind to what happens in it`s not
president right now?
BULLOCK: Yeah. And I`d ruled out early on that I won`t be running for
senate. We have good candidates. I`ll do everything I can to make sure
that they win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: I want to bring in two people who can help shed some light into
the challenges and choices facing these candidates. My old friend, Joel
Payne, who served as a senior staffer for the 2016 Hillary Clinton
presidential campaign, and Cornell Belcher, a Democratic strategist and
pollster and an MSNBC political analyst.
Gentlemen, thank you for joining me.
Cornell, let`s start with you. What is going through their minds? There
are – got to be 15 of the
20-plus candidates who are saying, not likely to be the president of the
United States, or are they thinking if they can get to the ground in Iowa,
maybe something will change. Maybe they`ll go from 2 percent to 20
CORNELL BELCHER, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: What`s going through their minds is
I really want to be president. And I`m special, but people really don`t
understand how special I am. And when I get a chance to explain to them
how special I am, all this is going to change and I`m going to leap to be
But that aside, at some point, I think it`s fairly soon, if you`re not –
if you don`t make that stage in the next debate, your campaign`s over. And
I think you`re already seeing pressure from a lot of the folks who are at 1
percent and sort of still staying at 1 percent, they can`t really put
together a real campaign because the money`s drying up.
I think there was – there was – there was pretty good fund-raising on the
first half of this, but I think you`re going to see money dry up and their
inability to put together a campaign in most of the
And if you don`t make that debate stage, you should pack it up because your
campaign is over.
VELSHI: You know, Joel, when you think about prior races, there are some
people who got into the race who were not front-runners. They may not have
looked successful and they turned tout be
either interesting candidates or relatively successful. And there were
some people who were front-runners, or had that kind of status, that
suggested they were going to make it to the finish line and burned out
So, is there any sense in these candidates, as Cornell said, who think that
they`re special, in giving up any time soon or wait until January and
closing in on Iowa?
JOEL PAYNE, SENIOR STAFFER, 2016 HILLARY CL INTON CAMPAIGN: Well, so we`re
talking about two different things, right. We`re talking about the
candidates and then their campaigns.
Their campaigns probably, meaning the advisers around them, have a very
strong sense of what reality is. I think we`ve even seen from Hickenlooper
even before The New York Times reporting yesterday, his campaign had been
urging him to get out for weeks. And we`ve even seen people like John
Delaney and others whose campaigns have been urging them to get out because
I think they understand the realities on the ground sometimes better than
But in terms of, you know, looking at Beto versus Hickenlooper and whether
or not they could
transfer this into a senate run, I think you`re looking at two completely
different situations. Beto O`Rourke is probably not well positioned to do
that as much as people think. M.J. Hegar is a pretty strong candidate.
And I think John Cornyn is a different type of Republican for him to run
VELSHI: He`s not Ted Cruz.
PAYNE: He`s not Ted Cruz. And he`d be running in 2020 when President
Trump is on the ballot, and you`re going to bring out a lot of
John Hickenlooper is running against a very weak Cory Gardner, that`s a
different race all
VELSHI: Let`s look at recent Economist/YouGov poll for the Democratic
primary. You know, you can put up any of these polls, Cornell, they show
similar things – Biden, Warren, Sanders, Harris up there, Buttigieg
usually up there. In this particular poll, it`s got Beto O`Rourke at 5
percent. And then after that, you drop to 2 percent, and there are a whole
lot of people who are under 2 percent and
To your point that these people think they`re special, and by the way, by
many measures, they are. They`re accomplished. They`re interesting people
with some really good policy prescriptives. But what they don`t seem to be
asking themselves is am I more special than someone else who I can get out
of the race and support?
BELCHER: Well, you know, is it your time? And certain candidates catch
fire because it`s their time.
I had the fortune of working for – for a young senator from Illinois who
most people said
shouldn`t run and he – it was his time and he caught fire with hope and
If your are in the top five or six of the pack, you probably – there`s
still a chance for you, because the electorate is still very fluid. And I,
here, again, David Plouffe`s voice in the back of our heads saying, you
know, it`s not a national race, it`s a state-by-state race. And we pay a
lot of attention to these national polls where Biden`s running really far
ahead, but if you look at some of the state-by-state polls, you know, Biden
is in a dogfight and a tossup in a lot of these states and it matters who
wins Iowa, and it matters who wins New Hampshire and it`s really, really,
really going to matter who wins South Carolina.
VELSHI: Joel, let me ask you, we were talking about the people who have
some standing, who might get out o the race. Is there anybody you`re
sitting looking at who`s running at 1 or 2 percent at the moment in most of
these polls, who given the opportunity you think might break out?
PAYNE: Oh, absolutely. I think someone like Cory Booker is really well
positioned to break out. He`s invested a lot in organization in those
early states, particularly New Hampshire and Iowa. He`s got amongst the
strongest of any of the Democratic field. And I think he`s somebody who
will benefit from a smaller field. There`s so many people out there right
now I think it`s a little bit difficult for voters to discern between this
person versus that person, when there`s 25 people out there. When there`s
10 people, eight people, I think someone like Cory Booker will benefit from
VELSHI: Guys, thanks very much. Great to talk to you both. Joel Payne,
And that is ALL IN for this evening. “THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW” starts right
now. Good evening, Rachel.
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