Trump’s sister retires as federal judge. TRANSCRIPT: 4/11/19, All In w/ Chris Hayes.
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: He just won reelection. Trump`s opponents
should pay attention. You can bet he has. That`s HARDBALL for now.
Thanks for being with us. “ALL IN” with Chris Hayes starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on ALL IN.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I`m proud of the fact. As a
businessman, I want to pay as little tax as possible.
HAYES: The Trump family tax shenanigans.
TRUMP: I have no obligation to do that while I`m under audit. There`s no
HAYES: Why at least one Trump is out of a job tonight and why House
Democrats aren`t giving up on getting the President`s returns.
TRUMP: I fight like hell to pay as little as possible. Can I say that?
I`m not a politician.
HAYES: An a new push to get big companies to pay their taxes.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Families do it. We
want the giant corporations to do it as well.
HAYES: Elizabeth Warren joins me tonight with her plan to raise $1
trillion. Then –
TRUMP: WikiLeaks, I love WikiLeaks.
HAYES: Julian Assange pulled from his bunker to be extradited to the U.S.
Plus, the right-wing attack machine out in force.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): We are getting to a level where this
is an incitement of violence against progressive women of color.
HAYES: Congresswoman Ilhan Omar under fire and fighting back.
REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): I am as American as everyone else is.
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Good evening from New York I`m Chris Hayes. At least one Trump is
now out of a job in the midst of an investigation into the family`s taxes.
Reporters just noticed last night that Maryanne Trump Barry, the
president`s sister have retired as a Federal Appellate Judge in
Philadelphia after a judicial ethics panel began to review her finances.
The review stem from a blockbuster New York Times investigation published
last fall documenting questionable tax schemes by the Trump family
throughout the 1990s. According to The Times which examined more than
100,000 pages of documents, those schemes included and I`m quoting The
Times here, instances of outright fraud. And the allowed the Trump family
to pocket roughly half a billion dollars that should have gone to the
The president and his lawyers deny The Times reporting but about two months
ago February 1st, individuals who filed complaints against the President`s
sister were notified that the Judicial Ethics Board was indeed taking up
the case according to The Times. Just ten days later Maryanne Trump Barry
reportedly filed her retirement papers. Because she was no longer a judge,
the investigation was dropped.
In completely unrelated news, the president is States is now going to
battle against House Democrats to stop them from getting his tax returns.
Last night, his administration declined a request from the Democratic Chair
of the House Ways and Means Committee made under a part of the law giving
the committee access to any tax filers information.
According to a letter from Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, the
committee`s request raises serious issues concerning the constitutional
scope of congressional investigative authority, the legitimacy of the
asserted legislative purpose and the constitutional rights of American
Now, Mnuchin`s letter did not include any mention of an audit which
continues to be the President`s main rhetorical excuse for withholding his
tax returns. He also seems to claim that the law explicitly giving
Congress access to citizen`s tax information does not actually exist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There is no law. As you know I got elected last time with the same
issue. And while I`m under audit, I won`t do it. If I`m not under audit I
would do it. I had no problem with it. But while I`m under audit, I would
not give my taxes. There`s no law whatsoever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: There is a law. There`s – 100 percent there`s a law. We`ve been
reading from it every night on the show. Less than 24 hours before the
President made those claims, the IRS Commissioner that he himself nominated
testified that actually there`s nothing to prevent taxes under audit from
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SANFORD BISHOP (D-GA): If anybody`s tax return is under audit, is
there a rule that would prohibit that taxpayer from releasing it?
CHARLES RETTIG, COMMISSIONER, IRS: I think I`ve answered that question,
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: No, no. OK. Now, House Democrats are questioning why it was
Mnuchin who responded to their request which was not directed to Mnuchin,
it had been addressed directly to the IRS Commissioner, and they`re
threatening to hold the Treasury Secretary in contempt of Congress. My
next guest served as IRS Commissioner for several years under President
George W. Bush Mark Everson, now Chairman of Alliantgroup a tax consulting
Mr. Everson, maybe you can just start with as someone with some expertise
here, your understanding of the law in terms of this request.
MARK EVERSON, FORMER COMMISSIONER, IRS: Sure. I think that the law is
clear here, Chris. It says that if the Chairman of Ways and Means ask for
a return, he or she gets it. It`s that simple.
HAYES: Now, what about Mnuchin`s role here? I mean, the IRS Commissioner
is one of these roles in government that strikes me a little like the
census, someone like DOJ where there`s a certain amount of independence you
want built into the agency because of how sensitive it is and how much you
want it to be protected from political pressures.
What do you make of how Mnuchin has acted to sort of go over the head of
the IRS Commissioner here?
EVERSON: I`m not really troubled by that. The Treasury Secretary
supervises the IRS and they talk. What I don`t like is when the White
House Chief of Staff weighs in on this and says that the Democrats will
never get the returns. That`s improper. The White House has to stay away
from this and let Treasury work it out.
And as the Secretary is doing, he`s referred it over to Justice because
there are important questions here. Although I think that they`re going to
end up having to produce a return.
HAYES: But having your produced a return because Justice says they do or
because they end up going to court?
EVERSON: Well, we`ll see. I think the law is clear but I`m not calling
the shots on this.
HAYES: What do you think about the argument when he says that there`s
important constitutional questions about the fact of how it affect the U.S.
taxpayers and citizens. What do you – what do you think about that
EVERSON: I don`t like the way the Chairman – and I have the highest
regard for the Chairman about it – I do not like the way that they crafted
the request. They said we`re going to try and find out how is the IRS
doing in its audit of the President. Well, they didn`t – nobody has asked
that question about the audit of Barack Obama or George W Bush.
I think they should have just said look, we are – we want to understand
any entanglements or conflicts of interest. After all, Chris, this law as
I understand the history, came into effect in the 20s when the Congress was
concerned about Teapot Dome and the actions of the executive.
So I think they have a right to ask for this information. It`s got to be
protected. It`s got to be kept private and that`s why they say only the
Chairman could ask for that information.
HAYES: Oh, that`s interesting. So you think that the sort of the
protective layer here and the concerns about it being leaked or public is
that written into the law, the Chairman could request and the Chairman is
the one given it not Congress in general.
EVERSON: Well, that`s exactly right. The President is right here. He has
under no obligation to make his returns public. Now, I believe he should
make them public so as a matter of seeking the office or holding the
office, but until he has compelled through a different statute to make it
public, he doesn`t have to do that.
HAYES: All right, Mark Everson who was as you see there IRS Tax
Commissioner, thank you very much.
EVERSON: Thank you.
HAYES: For more on the high-stakes battle over the President`s taxes, I`m
joined by Joy Reid, Host of “AM JOY” right here MSNBC and McKay Coppins,
Staff Writer for The Atlantic. Joy, I want to come back to the President`s
sister which again, maybe I just want to be clear, total – could be total
coincidence timing. She was a relatively (INAUDIBLE). She`s taken senior
status already. But the timing makes you wonder about that and about the
fact that what we already know from New York Times itself is somewhat
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Yes. Rereading that story today is kind of
breathtaking. I had forgotten how coextensive it was and it described Fred
Trump, the father of both the judge and Donald Trump just really catch me
if you can attitude is was described in The Times, of brazenly refusing to
pay taxes even though you got federal subsidies to build his real-estate
empire and then parceling out everything to his children in terms of loans,
in terms of buying their cars, in terms of buying stocks, and doing
everything he could to transfer this empire into the hands of his children
including the judge.
And so if you`re seeing a renewed look at not just Donald Trump but you
have the state – and not just Donald Trump at the federal level but the
State of New York also saying you know, we`d be interested in seeing what
their taxes were evaded here.
You know, one might see why Maryanne Trump might say, you know, if they`re
going to start looking at overvaluing of our properties and under payment
of taxes that maybe it would be good time to retire.
HAYES: You know, McKay, I think it`s sort of interesting you know, the way
they`ve done the Mueller report is oh sure, you`ll get it, you`ll get it,
you`ll get it. Well, yes, it should all come out and then this sort of
slow walking. They`ve been a bit more upfront about the taxes. I mean,
Everson – Mr. Everson just referenced Mick Mulvaney`s comments were trying
to play which I thought was sort of at least refreshingly clear about where
they are on this. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be clear, you believe Democrats will never see the
President`s tax returns.
MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Oh, no, never, nor
should they. Keep in mind that that`s an issue that was already litigated
during the election. Voters knew the president could have given his tax
returns. They knew that he didn`t and they elected him anyway which of
course is what drives the Democrats crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: They are going to do everything they can aren`t they?
MCKAY COPPINS, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Yes. They`ve made no –
they`ve made no effort to conceal what their strategy is here. I still am
taken aback rereading The New York Times investigation by just the extent
to which this Trump family fortune and Empire was clearly built in a way
that was never intended to withstand the kind of scrutiny that it – that
these taxes would now – that these financial records would now for
somebody to become president, right.
And of course, President Trump himself has been extensive reporting
including by myself that he never thought that he would actually become
president at least for most of the campaign. And so you have to wonder you
know, just exactly why they`re being so adamant about concealing them.
There – you know, I remember during the campaign there was a lot of talk
about what the bad politics would be, what it would reveal, maybe would
show that he`s not as rich as he – as he claims he is. I have to believe
that it`s something more serious than just kind of personal humiliation
that given that we`ve reached the point that we have.
HAYES: Yes. Although there`s also the fact that they just reflexively
deny, stonewall, deceive, spin and lie about everything whether they`re
guilty or not and the underlying issue, honestly.
REID: I think one of the things that came through to me reading the 2018
article is just the amount of brazen lawlessness and the attitude among –
and I`m sure it`s not just them. Let`s not just not pretend it`s the
Trumps of a certain you know, class of wealth that says, I made this money
how I made it, even if I made it through the help from the taxpayer and you
will not tax me.
I don`t care if the law says you can tax me. I don`t care as a law says my
children have to pay taxes when I – when they inherit my money. They
aren`t going to pay taxes. We aren`t going to pay taxes and try and stop
Donald Trump`s try and stop me attitude is probably not unique to him but
because he`s invested with the powers of the presidency, it inserts a
certain amount of lawlessness and contempt for the law that we aren`t
typically – we`re not used to seeing the president.
HAYES: To me what elevates this and what I find remarkable about the
situation is it`s one thing when he didn`t do it in the campaign.
HAYES: Which – and he says well, this is litigate. He`s the president
now. There`s a whole set of other issues, McKay, that are much more
pressing than how you were in the past, what was your past performance,
what sort of things did you do. There`s the question of what you are doing
in the White House now which is why this talk about what the legislative
purpose or the justification for the committee`s request seems
preposterous. Of course, it`s a legitimate request.
COPPINS: It is, of course, a legitimate request. It`s also legitimate I
think that you know, that the public wants to see these records and they
should. I understand the argument that they`re making and they`ve been
making it forever that the voters already decided on this.
But I mean look, the reason that Trump has gotten away with this so far is
because nobody has forced his hand yet, right. Republicans controlled the
House and the Senate for the first two years of his presidency. There has
now been a big court battle over this, and frankly, there`s been so much
else to cover in the Trump administration that this a beneficiation of the
press or the media either.
I think until it reaches either a fever pitch of public pressure or he`s
basically forced to by the Justice Department or by the judiciary, I don`t
– I think he`s going to continue to stonewall and it`s just a matter of
whether he`s forced to.
HAYES: 100 percent.
REID: And can we just say that this idea that the voters decided is a bit
of a crock as well since more than four million – like 3-4 million more
people said no we don`t want Donald Trump to be President. The Electoral
College may have decided because they were partisan Republican.
HAYES: Well, the other thing I would say is that the you know, the law is
the law no matter who is elected president, the Internal Revenue Code
Section 6103 says you shall sureness – furnish the tax returns. It does
not say if you want you don`t have to. Joy Reid and McKay Coppins, great
to have you both.
Speaking of not paying their taxes, corporations have been avoiding them
for years. Now Elizabeth Warren has a new plan to make them pay their fair
share. She will be my guest here in just two minutes.
HAYES: In 2018, Amazon reported more than $11 billion in taxable income
and paid zero dollars in federal taxes and it`s even worse than that.
Amazon is actually getting a federal tax refund of $120 million this year.
Now, does that seem wrong to you? It seems wrong to the Democratic Senator
and 2020 Presidential Candidate Elizabeth Warren who has a new plan to
impose a seven percent tax on reported corporate profits over $100 million.
The plan would affect about 1,200 companies including Amazon which would
have paid nearly $700 million more in taxes just this year.
As to economists estimate, Warren`s plan would raise more than $1 trillion
over a decade. And joining me now to tell us more, Massachusetts Senator
and Democratic Presidential Candidate Elizabeth Warren. All right,
Senator, obviously there is already a corporate tax and corporate tax rate,
it was massively slashed by the Republicans recently, how is this interact
with that tax rate? What does this do?
WARREN: So we`ve got a corporate tax rate, but as you know the thing has
just been lobby to death, it`s full of loopholes and breaks and special
deals so that a company like Amazon makes $10 billion dollars in profits,
can walk away paying nothing in taxes. That`s just not fair. Think of all
the people out there today who are paying their taxes, families that are
doing it, small businesses that are doing it if they can`t take advantage
of those loopholes the way that Amazon can.
So what I say is when you`re getting out and reporting to your investors,
reporting to the public, setting your CEO compensation based on what you
say is your after-tax profit, then I think you ought to pay a tax on that.
That means separate from all the loopholes, separate from everything else
The biggest corporations in our country should pay a tax. You shouldn`t be
able to make more than $100 million in profits and pay nothing.
HAYES: OK. So the idea here is that you`re taking advantage of the fact
that it is advantageous for corporations to report lots of profits when
talking to investors and very little profit when talking to the government
about their tax and tax liabilities –
WARREN: That`s right.
HAYES: – and basically saying –
WARREN: (INAUDIBLE) two ways.
HAYES: Well, of course. It`s like you know, it`s like Hollywood Studios
who talk about how big a movie opened and then when it`s time to pay off
people who have – or percentage the film made no profit. So I guess my
question is how would – like would this avoid the same gaming problem?
Are they good at gaming no matter what the rules are?
WARREN: No, because that`s the special part about this proposal. It says
when you get out – and remember, these statements that they make to the
public, these are audited, the SEC –
HAYES: Right, yes.
WARREN: Yes, yes, yes. When you make that statement, the trick is you
don`t get to turn around and say to the IRS oh, but not really. We only
these corporations want to take advantage of every loophole and say no, no,
no, that their taxable income is very tiny.
If this is their public statement about how well they are doing, then you
know, good for you. I`m glad you`re doing well. But it means that you
need to pay something so everybody else gets a chance to make some
investments and do well too.
HAYES: Well, and there`s – right now, I mean this is – there`s reporting
that says that now twice as many corporations are paying zero taxes under
the Republican and Trump tax plan. Obviously, corporate tax rates have
gone down. they were already fairly low in terms of the actual effect of
the collected rate, but they were slashed even further. Would you like to
see them go up more broadly?
WARREN: So look, I`m opposed to the Trump tax giveaway. I think what the
Republicans did is terrible. I think we ought to roll that back. I think
we ought to clean up our tax code. I think we ought to close a lot of the
loopholes. But I also think that just saying for the biggest companies.
Everybody that makes – remember this, $100 million or more in after-tax
income in their publicly reported statements make a contribution, make a
payment, make a tax payment so that we can make those investments in the
rest of the country.
You know, here`s how I look at this. I`m happy for the corporations that
make money, but let`s keep in mind they hired employees, the rest of us
helped pay to educate, they got their goods to market on roads and bridges
the rest of us helped pay to build. They were protected by police and
firefighters the rest of us also helped to pay for.
So what this is about is to say if you have this corporation that is making
that much in after-tax profits, put a portion of that back in so that we
can rebuild our infrastructure, so that we can invest in universal child
care, so that we can reduce the student loan burden, so we can do the
things that give the rest of America a chance to really grow and build a
HAYES: You know, you have proposed this, you`ve also proposed a wealth tax
which you are on a program to discuss which is very interesting, a novel in
many respects. Two questions, one on a policy one on politics.
On policy, at some point do you worry about over taxation right, there`s
some threshold at which you start to create perverse incentives or poor
incentives depending on where the tax level is relative to current status
quo, so do you worry about that? And politically do you worry that you
become too associated with taxes which is not maybe a word that lots of
WARREN: So let me do both halves of this. The first one is to remember
both of these proposals, the wealth tax and the real corporate profits tax
both have no exceptions, no loopholes, no lobbying into it. They`re modest
fees but they`re across the board.
WARREN: Two percent on the wealth tax, seven percent of the income tax,
just as there it is. So don`t get fancy, it doesn`t make any difference.
WARREN: I`m not trying to twist this part or turn that. These are very –
you know, that`s just it. That`s how much you`re going to have to pay if
that`s the position you`re in. And the second, you know, you want to talk
politics, understand we`ve already tested of lots of folks. They`ve
already run polls on how do Americans look at the wealth tax. And the
answer is Democrats strongly support it Independents strongly support it,
and a majority of Republicans support it.
You know, not the Republicans in Washington who are in Congress but
Republicans across this country because Americans whether they`re
Democrats, Republicans, or Independents, Americans know that the game is
rigged and that the big guys are not paying a fair share. And not just
that they`re not paying a fair share, that their failure to do that. It
means everybody else has to pay more and that there`s no money to do the
things we need to do in this country, the things we need to do to build a
real future in the 21st century.
HAYES: All right, Senator Elizabeth Warren who`s a Massachusetts Senator
and running for President at the Democratic nomination. Thank you so much
for joining us tonight.
WARREN: Thank you.
HAYES: After seven years holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London,
Julian Assange is arrested. But why now and why not on charges related in
the 2016 election? Senator Chris Murphy joins me on that next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: After seven years in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London originally
hiding out from rape sexual assault charges in Sweden, Julian Assange was
kicked out by the Ecuadorian government today and swiftly apprehended by
the British police for extradition to the U.S. where he has been charged
with computer hacking conspiracy in an unsealed indictment.
The indictment which was unsealed today was filed over a year ago eight
years after the alleged crime. The Obama administration declined to charge
Assange. They made the decision in the Department of Justice. It would be
too dangerous to press freedoms to do so.
Even now the DOJ did refrain from bringing the more controversial espionage
charges, but the indictments still raises all sorts of questions. Why was
he kicked out now? Why was he indicted a year ago eight years after the
alleged crime? We know that WikiLeaks features prominently in the special
council indictments against Russian hackers and against Trump associate
Roger Stone. Is it possible there are more charges to come on that front?
Here to help me dive into those questions, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy
of Connecticut. Senator, I was happy that you were able to talk tonight
about this because I think it`s a complicated case because people have very
strong and often negative feelings about Julian Assange. But it also
strikes me that the Obama – the Department of Justice decision was an
important one and I wonder what your reaction is.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT: Well, Julian Assange is some strange
amalgamation of a journalist and a political actor and I don`t think any of
us really understand where that line begins and ends. No one should be
prosecuted for disclosing secrets that about a government that they were
given if they had no role in procuring those secrets illegally.
But Assange is being charged with a crime of actually coordinating with one
of the actors who stole classified information and that clearly appears as
if it crosses a line. He also seems to have been an active political
participant in the Russian efforts to try to manipulate our elections. It
didn`t seem like a coincidence that he was dropping information into the
middle of the 2016 election at times that were especially advantageous for
the aims of the Russian government.
Now, I`m not privy to any of the information or the signal intelligence
that the Justice Department has, but this has been a tough case from the
beginning because he treads this line that most journalists don`t tread.
HAYES: I think here`s the concern that I – that I have on this case which
is that they decided that this Trump administration with its views about
the press and this DOJ with – under Jeff Sessions and his views in the
press chose to make this indictment a year ago eight years after the
infraction when the Obama Department decided that however they could charge
him would perhaps create precedents that are dangerous to the press and as
a member of the press myself as a believer in the First Amendment. And you
know, do we trust the Trump administration in the delicacy necessary here?
MURPHY: No, we don`t trust the Trump administration but let`s also be
clear that Trump has shown a lot of affection for Julian Assange very
openly. But listen, I don`t know what evidence they have that underlies
this claim, but what they`re claiming is that he was an active participant
along with Chelsea Manning in trying to procure this classified
And if that is the case, if he was working to try to steal classified
information, and that clearly seems like it crosses a line. And I`m you
know, frankly glad that they didn`t level charges that would have been in a
much clearer gray zone. So let`s see what the underlying evidence is. But
if he didn`t help steal classified information, if you as a participant in
that effort, you know that that seems like that should be inside the
criminal justice system.
HAYES: I have you here and I want to ask you a question about the war
powers resolution that you have been very instrumental on. We have, I
think, since the first time the War Powers Act in the wake of Richard
Nixon, an actual resolution passed by both houses of congress, going to the
president`s desk. Is that correct, it`s never happened before?
MURPHY: It never happened before, passed in the early 70s, there`s a
provision that allows for congress to take a majority vote to direct the
president, to pull the United States out of hostilities if it has not been
authorized by congress. And this is the first time that the House and the
Senate have successfully passed this resolution to pull the United States
in this case out of Yemen. And it is sitting on the president`s desk.
Curiously, it`s been sitting on his desk for almost a week now, and he has
yet to veto it.
HAYES: Have they issued any statement from the White House about what the
position of the government is – the White House is?
MURPHY: Well, the position of the administration prior to its passage was
that they were going to veto it. He has not done that yet. Obviously, it
would be curious for the president to sign a resolution demanding that he
pull out of a war that he could do on his own.
But, you know, again, you know what we are seeing is that, you know,
they`re are starting, once again, to be movement on the ground inside the
Middle East, inside Yemen, to try to get a tentative peace agreement and
ceasefire made real.
Every single time that congress acts, regardless of what the president
does, it puts more pressure on the players in the region to come to the
table and try to achieve a settlement. And I`ve heard just in the last 24
to 48 hours that there`s been some movement between the Houthis and the
Saudi-led coalition that maybe positive.
HAYES: All right, Senator Chris Murphy, thank you very much as always.
MURPHY: Thank you.
HAYES: Still ahead, the vicious and unfounded attack against the freshman
congresswoman that speaks volumes about the motives of her detractors,
that`s coming up. First, a trip through the garbage stream that is the
president`s Twitter feed in tonight`s Thing One, Thing Two next.
HAYES: Thing One tonight, the Twitter feed of the president of the United
States is, well, a garbage dump, full of bizarre ramblings, lies, weird
retweets and lots of clips from Trump TV. But lately, he has actually run
afoul of the rules and regulations.
The other day, he posted this video made by some random guy on Reddit. It
didn`t have much of a plot, but the theme seemed to be Donald Trump`s legs
He does a lot of powerful striding, which I think might be sped up. Set to
dramatic music, which happened to be from the score of Batman: The Dark
Knight Rises. And that is why the tweet, after just a few hours, looked
like this: removed. It turns out that even for the president, copyright
laws do apply.
But what about fake news? Doesn`t Twitter have some rules and regulations
about that? That`s Thing Two in 60 seconds.
HAYES: So, you are probably aware of the cable TV network known as the
Trump TV Business Channel. They cover business news for a smaller, more
targeted audience. To get an idea
of how just targeted, the Thing One, Thing Two data vis team worked up this
graphic in which the total audience of the channel is represented by the
blue circle here.
Now, inside that blue circle, you see there is an orange dot. And that dot
represents just one
viewer, one very powerful viewer. Because that one orange dot has himself
a giant orange audience of his own, the nearly 60 million Twitter followers
of Donald Trump.
Now, yesterday everyone in that small blue circle saw the following untrue
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOU DOBBS, FOX NEWS: According to a Georgetown University poll, the
approval is now 55 percent. Let`s hear that, 55 percent. And the approval
rating for the president`s handling of the economy, a robust 58 percent.
55 percent is pretty robust, too, don`t you think?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: I think it is very robust, Lou.
The orange dot viewer in the circle saw clearly saw that untrue thing, and
then proceeded to
share it with his huge orange circle tweeting, quote, “great news, #maga.”
Ah, but it wasn`t great news, it was fake news, according to director of
poll and question who himself replied to the tweet, the 55 percent number
is the president`s unfavorable rating. His favorable was only 40 percent.
So, the president does not have a 55 percent approval rating. He has had
40 percent approval rating, like he always has, 40 percent like 55 percent
do not like.
To their credit, the Trump TV business channel acknowledged the mistake
this morning, broadcasting this to everybody in their small blue circle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s been a quiet start to the day for President Trump,
though he did send out a tweet this morning from the the Lou Dobbs Show
last night on Fox Business. That tweet featured a poll that was not
entirely accurate, which Fox Business would like to correct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Not entirely, but apparently the little orange dot was not watching
because the incorrect poll is still sitting there in his Twitter feed for
his big orange audience.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I`m talking about the fake news, and you know it better than
anybody. You have news out there that is so fake.
I`m talking about the fake news, and it is fake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Last week, 55-year-old Patrick Carlineo Jr. of Addison, New York
was arrested by federal authorities and charged with threatening to kill
freshman Congresswoman Ilhan Omar of Minnesota. The charge stems from a
call that Carlineo made to her office in which he asked a staffer, quote,
do you work for the Muslim Brotherhood? Why are you working for her? She
is an f`ing terrorist. I will put a bullet in her f`ing skull.
Now, that arrest comes less than two months after Omar`s name was found on
the apparent hit list of Coast Guard Lieutenant Christopher Paul Hasson who
had amassed a stockpile of weapons and over 1,000 rounds of ammo.
And both of those instants are pretty important context for understanding
just how despicable the cover of the New York Post is today, which shows a
picture of the Twin Towers being hit on 9/11 with a headline featuring a
quote from Omar. It reads 9/11 was, quote, “some people did something”
below the picture the towers – of the towers it says, “here`s your
Omar`s punitive infraction on which the cover is based comes from a short
clip of the congresswoman taken abusively out of context from the speech
she gave in California last month. The 15-second video being circulated of
her speech has been viewed over two million times.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ILHAN OMAR, (D) MINNESOTA: CAIR was founded after 9/11, because they
recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting
to lose access to our civil liberties.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: CAIR is an organization that advocates for the civil rights of
Now, the right has seized on the line, some people did something, in
reference to 9/11 to insinuate the congresswoman is somehow sympathetic to
The point she was actually making in the speech was that the acts of the 19
men who committed the atrocities on 9/11 should not be held against the
billion Muslims who live around the world. It is a concept that has
escaped many in the Republican Party, the conservative media, and certainly
the president who called for every last Muslim on the planet to be banned
from entering the country writ large.
But this latest round of attacks on Omar are clarifying, because they show
what the issue really is. The congresswoman has now gone through several
rounds of news cycles around controversial things she said or tweeted, some
of them have resulted from statements she made that genuinely made people
upset in good faith, for example, her since deleted tweet about the
Benjamins that glibly flirted with anti-Semitic notions about Jewish people
and money. And a speech in which she said, quote, “I want to talk about
the political influences in this country that says it is OK for people to
push for allegiance to a foreign country. Omar apologized unequivocally.
But that has not stopped her critics from continuing to target her with
unrelenting bile. This week, she called Stephen Miller, one of the
president`s advisers, a white nationalist. A lot of people agree with
that,but Republican Congressman Lee Zeldin responded with something of a
non sequitor saying, “during my time in congress before Ilhan Omar got
here, I didn`t once witness another member target Jewish people like this
with name calling and other personal attacks.”
Throughout these controversies, one always had the sense that those leading
the charge against
Ilhan Omar were less upset about what she said than about who she is. For
example, Janine Pirro, who had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS: Omar wears a hijab, which according to the Koran
33:59 tells women to cover so they won`t get molested. Is her adherence to
this Islamic doctrine indicative of her
adherence to Sharia law, which in itself is antithetical to the United
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: And now here`s the latest round from Fox and Friends.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OMAR: CAIR was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people
did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people did something, like an unprovoked attack
killing people in the Pentagon – thousands in the Pentagon and Flight 93
as well as in the World Trade Center? Really? Some few people did
You have to wonder if she`s an American first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: You have to wonder if she`s American first.
Now, if nothing else, it is usefully clarifying when the bigots who hate
Ilhan Omar because she`s a Muslim woman in congress wearing a hijab, out
themselves as they have.
What they`ve shown us about themselves is next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, (D) NEW YORK: To illicit such an image for
such a transparently and politically motivated attack on Ilhan Omar, this
is – we are getting to a level where this is an incitement of violence
against progressive women of color. And if they can`t figure out how to
get it back to policy, we need to call it out for what it is, because this
is not normal. And this is not a normal level of political debate or
rhetoric as wild. As it can get sometimes, this is something beyond what
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defending her fellow
freshman congresswoman Ilhan Omar today.
Joining me now are Rabbi Rachel Timoner, a senior rabbi at congregation
Beth Elohim in Brooklyn, New York; Waleed Shahid, who is the spokesperson
for Justice Democrats; and Christiana
Greer, associate professor of political science at Fordham University.
Rabbi, I`ll start with you. There`s been a lot of obviously conversation
around Omar, some
of it tense, some of quite angry, some of it quite I think interesting in
terms of the direction it`s gone.
The cover of the paper in your hometown today, what do you make of it?
RABBI RACHEL TIMONER, CONGREGATION BETH ELOHIM SENIOR RABBI: As a rabbi in
New York, I don`t want to see September 11 being used for political
purposes. That`s painful for New Yorkers, and that`s wrong. It
HAYES: The thing that Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said is that
there is a real threat here of danger to Congresswoman Omar, like that is
just a fact. We just watched someone go into a mosque in New Zealand. We
had someone shoot up a synagogue based on a right-wing conspiracy theory.
We had the president`s super fan try to assassinate two dozen of the most
prominent of his critics, lieutenant colonel in the Coast Guard who got
caught with a stockpile of weapons and Ilhan Omar`s name, like there`s a
serious concern here.
CHRISTINA GREER, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: Or three churches in Louisiana that
were just burned down to the ground, or the Highlander Center in Tennessee
that was also burned down to the ground.
So there are a few things going on. One, we know that women of color are
disproportionately attacked, whether they are pundits on television or
whether or not they`re elected officials, and so we`re seeing that.
HAYES: You mean in like a public, social media criticism.
GREER: In a public way. There`s the gender piece, there`s race piece, and
there`s intersectionality where there`s lots of sort of sort of white
supremacists and also just good old-fashioned racists who feel the need to
attack women of color, especially in positions where they`re speaking out.
Second piece is, you know, taking a snippet of what someone says is – and
grossly mischaracterizing it, you know, when Ilhan Omar is someone who has
fought for the Victims Compensation Act for victims of 9/11, something that
Republicans have not tried to do, right, and they want to keep all the
money to themselves and sort of perform that they care about New York and
9/11 survivors, but when it comes time to put up the money, they haven`t
And then I think the third piece, which is really important is, we have to
remember what Colin
Powell said about Barack Obama when Donald Trump was saying all this during
the 2008 election – you know, he`s a Muslim, can we trust him? And Colin
Powell said as a Republican, OK, so what if he is Muslim? What`s wrong
with being Muslim? We have had 400 years of Muslims being in this country,
working and praying and serving this nation, what`s wrong with being a
And one of the first thing that President Trump does is the Muslim ban.
So I mean, many Republicans and Republican pundits are following the orders
of the executive and that is what`s really dangerous and it`s highly
problematic and she`s clearly a symbol for so much
hate and attack especially from certain networks.
HAYES: Yeah, I should note that in 2008 I don`t think it was Trump saying
that Obama was a Muslim back then it was…
GREER: Oh, sorry. I`m sorry, it was 2009 he decided that he`s…
HAYES: The birther controversy.
There`s also just the fact that I think there`s a degree to which they`re
showing themselves on
this, because the previous rounds of comments, both the sort of all about
the Benjamins tweet and other stuff, like I had people in my life and
people that I respect and people I view as good faith interlocutors who had
beef with that and this – this seems like just a bad faith out of context
hit job to me.
WALEED SHAHID, JUSTICE DEMOCRATS: There`s a 200-miles-per-hour ideological
right wing war machine coming after Ilhan Omar, and also Rashida Tlaib and
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. My question is where is the Democratic Party
leadership on this? You didn`t see that many comments from candidates
running for president in 2020, you didn`t see that many comments from Nancy
Pelosi or Steny Hoyer, Chuck Schumer for that matter. Instead, what we`ve
seen is a pattern from the Democratic Party leadership that tries to
distance themselves away from these three women, instead of seeing these
women as the rising leaders in the party who they have to fight for.
When you are faced with this war machine, you`ve got to fight back, and
you`ve got to defend people in your party. And just last week, Nancy
Pelosi said something like, you know, the women with the large amounts of
Twitter followers are not necessarily representative of the Democratic
And I think we need a Democratic Party that actually fights for Alexandria
Ilhan Omar, for Rashida Tlaib against these attacks, because they can`t
keep running away from it and, you know, make fun of them at AIPAC, like
Schumer and Hoyer did, or pile on the attacks.
So, I was actually pretty saddened to see there weren`t – it was just
these women sticking up for each other, the three women who I have
mentioned, and Ayanna Pressley, but not much from the leadership.
TIMONER: I would love to say something about that. Look, Representative
said some things that have used anti-Semitic tropes, and it`s legitimate to
call that out. It`s important to call that out. When anti-Semitism
appears on the right or on the left, it`s a growing problem in our country
and we need to name it. We need to understand it better. We need to call
it out, but we, the Jewish people and anti-Semitism are being used as a
weapon by the right, by the Republican Party and the president has no
standing to do that after Charlottesville, after Sebastian Gorka, but they
are doing that, and they`re using us.
And we don`t want to be used that way, especially as a cover for racism or
Islamophobia. Instead, the Republican Party should stop using us in that
way, because it`s actually harming us because
it`s making it as if anti-Semitism is just – the claim of anti-Semitism is
just a tool or just a game, and it`s not a game. It`s real.
HAYES: I mean, the point to me here is that like people`s faiths are bound
together, right? I mean, ultimately – and that`s really what this comes
I mean, I have to say, what you said about the war machine, like it`s crazy
to watch the war machine go to war. Sometimes it goes after an adjunct
professor at NYU out of nowhere who they just decide we`re going to take
this person, put them on TV and blow up their lives. In this case, it`s a
public figure, that`s legitimate. You can go after a public figure. A
member of congress is a public figure.
But to me that cover is just an escalation, right, like they have her in
their sights. They are going to go – like…
GREER: Well, because she is everything that they hate, right. She`s a
woman. She`s a person of color. She`s black. She`s a refugee. She`s a
former immigrant. She`s a Muslim. She`s petite. And she is very smart.
HAYES: I don`t know, do they hate petit people?
GREER: And we can add all of these things up, right, and she`s not afraid
of them. And she comes with a band of three sisters, which is very
intimidating for them, and it makes them furious because she does
represent America and that`s not the that America they see.
HAYES: The not being afraid I think is a key part here. I want to play
this part of the speech, because I think it shows kind of where she`s
coming from in all of this. Take a listen to what she had to say – longer
part of that speech that`s been taken out of context. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OMAR: Muslims for a really long time in this country have been told that
there is a privilege,
that there`s a privilege that we are given and it might be taken away. We
are told that we should be appropriate. We should go to school, get an
education, raise our children and not bother anyone, not make any kind of
noise. Don`t make any one uncomfortable. Be a good Muslim.
But no matter how much we have tried to be the best neighbor, people have
always worked on finding a way to not allow for every single civil liberty
to be extended to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: I mean, part of that Waleed to me, is like when you talk about the
Democratic leadership, Democratic leadership doesn`t want a bunch of
controversy every week, right. Like, from their perspective, it`s like,
Ilhan Omar does not care that they`re coming after her, clearly. She`s not
going to be cowed. I think that`s also true of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
It`s true of Rashida Tlaib. And the Democrat – the sort of posture and
politics of the Democratic leadership is like, we don`t want to be on Fox
News every night. And we don`t want to be fighting these defensive fights.
SHAHID: We`re in a battle globally of the fate for multi-racial liberal
democracy, so they don`t really have a choice. Like Ilhan Omar represent
multi-racial liberal democracy, just like Alexandria does – Alexandria
Ocasio-Cortez does, or Rashida Tlaib, that is the fight that we`re having
all over the world from America to New Zealand and we really have – the
Democratic Party needs to be the fight –
the party of multi-racial liberalism.
Conservatives are going to war for conservatism, liberals should go to war
HAYES: Well, war in a rhetorical sense, just to be clear. Rabbi Rachel
Timoner, Waleed Shahid, Christina Greer, thank you all for joining me.
That is ALL IN this evening. “THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW” starts right now.
Good evening, Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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