The Trump attack on Healthcare. TRANSCRIPT: 3/28/19, All In w/ Chris Hayes.

Guests:
Richard Blumenthal, Elizabeth Holtzman, Bob Bauer, Amy Klobuchar, Efren Olivares
Transcript:

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST:  That`s HARDBALL for now.  “ALL IN” with Chris

Hayes starts right now.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST:  Tonight on ALL IN.

 

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE:  You might

say that`s just what you need to do to win but I don`t think it`s OK.  I

think it`s immoral.

 

HAYES:  Republicans attempt a coup in the House.

 

SCHIFF:  I think it`s unpatriotic and yes, I think it`s corrupt and

evidence of collusion.

 

HAYES:  As we get our first reports about the size of the Mueller report.

 

ANDREW NAPOLITANO, CONTRIBUTOR, FOX NEWS CHANNEL:  In that report will be

evidence of the existence of a conspiracy.

 

HAYES:  Tonight, what we know about the more than 300 pages in the special

counsel report and the Republican effort to keep it hidden.

 

NAPOLITANO:  In that report will be evidence of obstruction of justice.

 

HAYES:  Then, 2020 candidate Amy Klobuchar on Mueller, the attack on

ObamaCare and her big policy announcement.  Plus, just what is happening at

the border, and Trymaine Lee reports on why they need a Green New Deal in

the Bronx.

 

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D), NEW YORK:  People are dying.

 

HAYES:  When ALL IN starts right now.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  Good evening from New York I`m Chris Hayes.  We now know the length

and the title of the actual Mueller report that has been kept from view in

the four page book report offered by Attorney General Bill Barr.  New York

Times was first to report that it is more than 300 pages long and titled

the report on the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016

presidential election.

 

Because of course the entirety of the investigation itself centered around

the fact that a foreign intelligence service intervened as a sophisticated

and fairly widespread way to tip the election towards Donald Trump.  The

question that we`ve been asking was did any Americans help in that.

 

Barr quoting a partial sentence in the underlying report said the

investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign

conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election

interference activities.

 

But even the most good-faith four-page summary of a 300-plus page document

is necessarily going to leave out a lot of stuff to remain.  Republicans

have clearly seen an opportunity with the four-page summary of the 300-page

report to win some kind of final rhetorical battle over Democrats who have

been pointing out established publicly accessible facts about the behavior

of the Trump campaign during that election.

 

Today all nine GOP members of the House Intelligence Committee demanded

Chairman Adam Schiff resign for repeatedly claiming the Trump campaign

colluded with the Russian government.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

REP. MIKE CONAWAY (D), TEXAS:  The findings of the special counsel

conclusively refute your past and present assertions and have exposed you

as having abused your position to knowingly promote false information.  As

such we have no faith in your ability to discharge your duties in a manner

consistent with your constitutional responsibilities and urge your

immediate resignation as chairman of the committee.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  But Schiff was not having it.  It is worth noting that we only have

time to play a portion of Schiff`s response.  I`m going to turn to our

witnesses who are the top of the hearing today but before I do – and as it

as you have chosen instead of addressing the hearing to simply attacked me

consistent with the President`s attacks, I do want to respond in this way.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

SCHIFF:  My colleagues may think it`s OK that the Russians offered dirt on

a Democratic candidate for president as part of what was described as the

Russian government`s effort to help the Trump campaign.  You might think

that`s OK.

 

y colleagues might think it`s OK that when that was offered to the son of

the president who had a pivotal role in the campaign, that the president`s

son did not call the FBI.  He did not adamantly refuse that foreign help. 

No instead that son said that he would love the help of the Russians.

 

And I will tell you one more thing that is apropos of the hearing today.  I

don`t think it`s OK that during a presidential campaign Mr. Trump sought

the Kremlin`s help to consummate a real estate deal in Moscow that would

make him a fortune.  According to special counsel hundreds of millions of

dollars.

 

I don`t think it`s OK that he concealed it from the public.  I don`t think

it`s OK that he advocated a new and more favorable policy towards the

Russians even as he was seeking the Russians help, the Kremlin`s helped to

make money.  I don`t think it`s OK that his attorney lied to our committee.

 

There`s a different word for that than collusion and it`s called compromise

and that is the subject of our hearing today.  Mr. Ambassador, you are

recognized for your opening statement.

 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Will the chairman yield?  Will the chairman yield? 

Will the chairman yield?

 

SCHIFF:  I will not yield.  Mr. Ambassador –

 

REP. MICHAEL TURNER (R), OHIO:  Will the Chairman yield because you just

make some things about all of us that I think we all should get the

opportunity to respond to.

 

SCHIFF:  I will – I will –I will not yield. 

 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  You`re going to say we think you ought to allow us to

speak of what you think.

 

SCHIFF:  You can use your five minutes to speak.  You attacked me in your

opening statement and –

 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I have not had an opportunity respond at all especially

to your statements of what we think, because no one over here thinks that. 

No one over here –

 

SCHIFF:  Mr. Turner, you`re not recognized.  Ambassador McFaul, you`re

recognized.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  Now, Adam Schiff was just one of a list of Democratic targets sent

out by of all people the Trump 2020 Campaign that had a memo about how

guess that you`re booking might be unreliable.  They don`t like when people

are factually unreliable.  And joining me now is another lawmaker on that

list Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut.  He sits on the Senate

Judiciary Committee.  Good to have you here, Senator.

 

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT), SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE:  Thank you.

 

SCHIFF:  I want to read you the quote that was in the booking memo from the

Trump 2020 campaign because it was something he said to me.  On October

17th of last year, the evidence is pretty clear that there was collusion

between the Trump campaign and the Russians.  Were you wrong?

 

BLUMENTHAL:  I was right and you`ve just heard why I was right from Adam

Schiff and I can give you a list of the evidence of collusion.

 

HAYES:  But isn`t that defining collusion down?  You`re – what you`re

saying is a collusion appropriately names the – what we already know about

the publicly accessible information behavior of the Trump campaign.

 

BLUMENTHAL:  What we have publicly accessible like the Trump Tower meeting

involving the president`s son-in-law, campaign manager and son, or the

providing of private polling data to the Russians while they were

conducting a social media manipulation campaign, aiding Trump, or the Trump

Tower negotiations for a Moscow Tower.  All of these instances and there

are many more are already in the public domain.

 

What we don`t have is the Trump-Mueller report.  We have the Barr book

report.  And there is likely to be a lot more evidence of the conspiracy

even if it doesn`t rise to the level of proof beyond reasonable doubt.

 

HAYES:  So I want to – I want to put some markers down in advance right. 

I mean, my position on this is I have no idea what`s in that report.  I am

inclined to think there will not be a substantial or shocking distance

between the summary is provided by Barr the actual report itself.  What is

your expectation?

 

BLUMENTHAL:  My expectation is that there will be more evidence of both

conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russians but also more

evidence of obstruction.  And the reason that`s important is number one,

the Barr book report, its summary of the Mueller report says that it did

not exonerate the president.

 

HAYES:  Explicitly quoted.  One of the few things it quotes is that an

explicit non exoneration from Bob Mueller.

 

BLUMENTHAL:  One of those 42 words that he quote is that there`s no

exoneration.  And obstruction is fundamental here because it involves the

hindering of an investigation which might have disclosed more evidence of

that conspiracy like criminal intent.  But here`s the main point, Chris,

none of us know what is in the Mueller report.  The American people

deserve.  They paid for it.

 

They need to know everything that is in it.  And the failure to disclose it

fully and completely would smack of a cover-up and forever taint attorney-

general.

 

HAYES:  It does seem to me – it`s a weird thing because nominally

everybody agrees that it should come out.  I saw polling today 75 percent

of people, 420-0 in the House, unanimous consent to – for a similar

resolution.  The Senate`s been denied twice now launched by Mitch McConnell

launched by Rand Paul.

 

Barr doesn`t seem to be covering things up or at least dragging his feet or

does he?  I mean, what do you think the status of this is?

 

BLUMENTHAL:  Well, the Attorney General William Barr has been

extraordinarily adroit.  This letter is elegantly but brazenly in a way

avoidance of the truth.  He has framed the headlines, he has created the

message.  We have yet to see the substance.  And he said in response to my

urging him to support my legislation with Senator Graham, Senator Grassley,

bipartisan, that he would look at it but he couldn`t commit to it.

 

And that legislation would require full and complete disclosure.  He has

yet to commit to it.  My fear is he will redact it.  He will resort to

executive privilege.  He will say that certain parts of it should be kept

private for reasons that relate to the confidentiality of individuals.  We

need to see the whole report.

 

HAYES:  Are you confident that should there be redactions or things

withheld for any of three reasons – and as I track them I think it`s

classified information, grand jury secrecy, and assertions of executive

privilege.  I think those are three categories.  Is it your expectation

that those redactions will be flagged as such in the report, meaning you

will know that there are portions not there?

 

BLUMENTHAL:  My hope is that they will flag them.  I have no confidence

that the attorney general will.  I think given his –

 

HAYES:  So you think he just edit it out.

 

BLUMENTHAL:  He may just edit it out –

 

HAYES:  You don`t trust that he – you don`t have any –

 

BLUMENTHAL:  I have no confidence in the Barr version if it is redacted

without any explanation as to either of those legitimate reasons.  The 6E

order of grand jury secrecy, the need for confidentiality based on ongoing

investigations, or certain privacy interests that may be asserted.  But my

fear is he will resort to executive privilege which has no basis

whatsoever.

 

HAYES:  All right, Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, good to have

you back.  Thank you very much.

 

BLUMENTHAL:  Thank you.

 

HAYES:  For more on the Republican push to declare victory on the Mueller

report, we`ve got two guests with unique insight on subject.  Elizabeth

Holtzman, former Democratic Congresswoman who served in the House Judiciary

Committee which voted for the impeachment of President Richard Nixon and

she`s also the author of The Case for Impeaching Trump.  And Bob Bauer

former White House Counsel to President Barack Obama, now professor of law

at New York University Law School.

 

Let me ask you first your impressions, Liz, about that letter and about the

letter with the fact today that it`s a 300-page report that he was

summarizing, something that we did not know until today.

 

ELIZABETH HOLTZMAN (D), FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN:  Well, I think Senator

Blumenthal summed it up very correctly.  This letter is a disingenuous

effort to try to suggest that the president of the United States is somehow

innocent.  The fact of the matter is that not having seen the report, a 300

pages not all about nothing.  It`s all about something.

 

HAYES:  Right.

 

HOLTZMAN:  And the American – the real question here is whether we`re

seeing a cover-up in slow motion or fast motion or whether the American

people are going to get the facts because the the issue here is if we don`t

get the facts, we`re not going to know whether the President of the United

States actually engaged in criminal conduct because we have mister Barr`s

version right of what is criminal and not, but maybe Mr. Mueller`s

assessment of the and suggest something else.

 

We don`t know how Mueller has presented the evidence.  We don`t know how

strong it is and the American people need to know whether the man sitting

in the White House is a crook or not.  That is really the central issue

here whether he is engaged in criminal conduct.

 

Remember one of the things that that Barr says is that Mueller failed or

did not engage in traditional prosecutorial judgment.

 

HAYES:  Right.

 

HOLTZMAN:  Well, what`s that about?  I mean that`s really –

 

HAYES:  It`s a weird phrase.

 

HOLTZMAN:  Well, what we need to know is whether under traditional

prosecutorial standards a crime was committed or not and we need to know

whether the reason the prosecution wasn`t engaged in here was because there

was a legal barrier and not a factual barrier.

 

HAYES:  Bob, you served as White House Counsel in the – in the Obama

administration, and I`m curious about the question of executive privilege. 

Is it your expectation that the report in full has gone to the White House

Counsel or will go to the White House Counsel in advance of any disclosures

by Barr to give an opportunity for redactions and assertions of executive

privilege?

 

BOB BAUER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL TO PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA:  Yes, that

would absolutely be my expectation.  And if there`s one thing I think we

know about Attorney General Barr, he has very strong views about executive

authority and those translated I think in this instance into strong views

about the protection of privileges, I would be absolutely astonished if he

did not engage the White House Counsel in a discussion about the basis that

they will claim for any redactions grounded in that privilege.

 

HAYES:  One thing about executive privilege questions that I always find

confusing just to follow up on that is essentially who adjudicates them in

the end?  I mean, if the White House Counsel says yes, actually all 300

pages are covered by executive privilege, you can give them a sheets of

paper with all blacked out go ahead, who`s to say they can`t do that?

 

BAUER:  Barr would know that if a claim that extreme and absurd is made, he

would know perfectly well that should come to a confrontation with the

Congress.  Then eventually the courts would decide and the administration

would certainly lose.

 

HAYES:  I see.

 

Bauer:  So I think Barr would very much not want to lose that kind of

battle and I think he would be calling on the White House Council to

exercise the best possible judgment in these matters.  Let me – let me

also just say one additional point about this.  It is important to have the

report not only as Congresswoman Holtzman said because there`s ongoing

questions about whether the President in fact did engage in conduct in

violation of the law.

 

The report is important also because this is a president who is shattering

norms one after the other that are essential to the presidency as a

constitutional office consistent with our expectations about how the

government would run.  And we shouldn`t lose that public interest to

mention here as well.

 

This is not all about the law as important as that inquiry continues to be,

it`s also about the judgments we draw about the sort of presidency that we

can abide in this country.  So I don`t want to lose sight of that as well.

 

HAYES:  There`s also to me – you know, let`s say that – let`s say there`s

three categories of the report.  There`s stuff about obstruction, there`s

stuff about whether any Americans, U.S. persons or Trump campaign officials

conspire to coordinate with the Russians, and then there`s the stuff on the

Russian plot itself, what they did.

 

Even if everything in those two categories are exculpatory, and we know

they`re not on obstruction, but let`s say everything having to do with

coordination is exculpatory, even new – we`d learn new facts that are

exculpatory towards the Trump campaign –

 

HOLTZMAN:  Unlikely.

 

HAYES:  Unlikely but let`s say that happens, there`s still a lot to know

about what the Russians did.  I mean, all we have are basically two

indictments.  Why`d they decide to do it?  How did they pull it off?  How

long ago did they go?  Did they start with Trump of the primary?  Did they

go into general election?

 

HOLTZMAN:  Well, one of the things you need – we need to emphasize at this

point is that Donald Trump still has not acknowledged the existence of

Russian interference in this election.

 

HAYES:  Right, exactly.

 

HOLTZMAN:  And that`s a really important thing.  He keeps calling this a

hoax but the important thing for the American people to know is that a

foreign government tried to put his finger on the scale, try to effect an

American election, tried to destroy the right of – the right of our free

vote and that`s – what are we going to do after the next election.  So

this is really important for this – for this document to become public not

only for the reasons that that I suggested and that Mr. Barr – Professor

Barr suggested.

 

HAYES:  Elizabeth Holtzman and Bob Bauer, thank you both for making time

tonight.  I really appreciate it.

 

HOLTZMAN:  Thank you.

 

HAYES:  Up next, 2020 presidential candidate Senator Amy Klobuchar

accomplishes something the President hasn`t managed to do in two years in

office.  The Senator joins me in two minutes.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  We`re working on a plan now. 

There`s no very great rush from the standpoint.  We`re waiting for

decisions in the court.  If we win on the termination of ObamaCare we will

have a plan that`s far better than ObamaCare.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  That is a funny bit that he likes to do.  Donald Trump wants to

destroy the American health care system as it currently exists under

ObamaCare with no plan at all as you just heard for what to do afterwards. 

And considering the last time the Republican Party tried to get rid of

ObamaCare it cost them control of the House and several state capitals,

many Republicans are pretty spooked by the President`s latest anti-

ObamaCare push.

 

One Republican senator who didn`t want to use their name told Politico, “We

need a plan and right now we don`t have one.  I`m not going to just throw

this to the whims of our creativity.”  For years now literally, the

President has been promising some beautiful perfect health care plan that

is of course yet to materialize which is not unlike his beautiful

infrastructure plan.

 

Well, today, Democratic Senator and Presidential Candidate Amy Klobuchar

rolled out an actual infrastructure plan to spend $1 trillion in federal

funds for state and local governments to upgrade not only crumbling roads,

highways, and bridges, but also schools, airports, water systems, internet

access, public transit, and energy systems.

 

And Senator Amy Klobuchar, a Democrat from Minnesota and 2020 Presidential

candidate joins me now.  Senator –

 

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Hey, Chris!

 

HAYES:  It`s good to see you.  So am I not understand this which is the

first big policy rollout you`ve had, this would be your first big domestic

priority where you elected president, you had a Congress you could work

with, this is the first thing you`d come out with?

 

KLOBUCHAR:  This is the first big bill that I had worked with to get

through the Congress.  I think there`s other things that that I`d like to

do immediately like get us back into that climate change agreement.  You

can do that with the stroke of a pen or put forward some of these clean

power rules.  But this would be a big project that you clearly would have

to work with Republicans in the Senate.  Hopefully we will be in control of

the Senate.  But you`d want to work with people to get this done.

 

So what I did here is something the president seemingly has been unable to

do even though he said this was one of his top priorities.  And that is lay

out a plan for infrastructure, everything from roads and bridges, of course

motivated by what happened in my state a mile from my house when that

bridge fell down in the middle of a summer day killing 13 people.

 

Look at rail systems and water system, looks at the flooding that we`re

seeing right now in Iowa and a lot of this means infrastructure, it means

sewer systems, some of the stuff that`s not so glamorous.  Crumbling public

schools like we saw in Baltimore this last winter where the heat wasn`t

even working.  So these are things we have to do as a nation.  And I also

showed how I was going to pay for it.

 

And so far this president`s plan has been a mirage, Chris.  He said he

wants to do it and then he maybe puts a fifth of the money out there and

doesn`t really show how he`s going to pay for it and hasn`t been able to

get it done.

 

HAYES:  One of the things that I think the first item as I was going

through his roads and bridges and things like that.  You talk about

congestion and the like.  You also talked about the need to build green

infrastructure.  Do you see those as intention in any way right?  Building

out the infrastructure for fossil fuel driven cars and the way those drive

emissions with expanding the transportation infrastructure under the kind

of old combustion engine automobile?

 

KLOBUCHAR:  Not really because I think you`re going to have an electric

grid in the future as we`re going to see more and more transition.  You`re

still going to need roads but you are going to have to adjust some of the

signage and things like that and how those roads work.  But certainly, part

of this is transit and making sure we have good rail and other things that

are very consistent with those goals. 

 

And one of the ways you pay for this which you didn`t ask but I just can`t

help but want to put out there because there are ways to pay for this, and

that is the portion of the Republican tax plan that was so regressive where

the corporate tax went all the way down to 21 percent.  Every point was

$100 billion.

 

So literally you could still be at 25 percent and have $400 billion for

infrastructure.  The way they did that overseas money which was an avenue -

- just unbelievable because no one could really figure it out.  Remember

how that thing came up so quickly?

 

HAYES:  Yes.

 

KLOBUCHAR:  Well, they did it as an average of all the country`s taxes

instead of taking each country`s taxes.  You could say $150 billion on that

– on that overseas money.  And so you combine it plus you do some

government bonds and an infrastructure financing authority which will

attract some private money, and that`s about a third of this.  And you

literally can get to the trillion dollars.  Something that Democrats and

Republicans and independents have been asking for a long time.

 

HAYES:  Yes.  There`s an argument to be made that the depths of the

corporate tax cuts give Democrats a kind of pay for a lot of stuff should

they take office because they cut so deeply.  You voted present this week

along with your colleagues except for four I think on the Green New Deal. 

People said it was a sort of gimmick by McConnell.  You weren`t going to

play his game.  But do you support it?  What is your feeling about it?

 

KLOBUCHAR:  Yes.  I`m a co-sponsor and I think it is so important to move

forward and just stop talking about this problem and start doing something

about it.  You know, if we could put a man on the moon, we can meet some of

these goals.  We may not reach every single goal.  I think it is important

though not to squelch the energy behind the Green New Deal.

 

And I was glad that we handled it the way we did because instead of

actually coming up with some new plans and how we`re going to do the

everything from gas mileage standards that I`d like to bring back, like

that squelch to the clean power rules, Mitch McConnell is just playing

games.  He wanted to see if he could you know, create a divide among

Democrats in the U.S. Senate.  And he pretty much lost that bid.

 

Because instead, we turned it on them and said OK, just like we`re doing on

health care like you started out.  What`s your plan?  You`ve got a

president that`s decided he wants to kick everyone off for pre-existing

conditions, you have a president that`s going backwards on climate change

while fires are raging and floods are coming down the Midwest all the way

south.  This is going on right now and instead of playing politics, maybe

you should come up with a plan.  And if you can`t, the voters already spoke

in 2018 and they`re going to speak again in 2020.

 

HAYES:  I want to ask you before I let you go about an exchange you have

with Rand Paul today on the floor of the Senate.  You –

 

KLOBUCHAR:  Oh, that`s always fun.

 

HAYES:  You asked for unanimous consent for a resolution similar to the one

that passed in the House 420-0 to make the full Mueller report public.  He

objected a unanimous consent, said he wants all of the – I guess material

that began the investigation or Obama to be made public.  You objected to

that.  How did you – how did you read his objection, is it a good-faith

one or a bad faith one?

 

KLOBUCHAR:  I don`t think that was good faith.  And I kept going back to

him with you know what, 420-0 in the House of Representatives.  They voted

that this report should be public.  Nearly 90 percent of the public wants

to see it.  Why?  I think at its core we need to see this for national

security.

 

It`s hundreds of pages.  We`re going to find out much more about what the

Russians did, and we`ve got bills on the table right now to secure our

election equipment.  My bipartisan bill to have backup paper ballots, this

is going to give me what I need to make the case.  And so I think the

public needs to see it.  I made a very simple argument.  And I was actually

quite surprised that they objected given the vote that we saw in the House.

 

HAYES:  Yes.  I find the objection a little weird too.  Senator Amy

Klobuchar, thanks so much for coming by.  Come back again.

 

KLOBUCHAR:  Thank you.  It was great to be on, Christ.

 

HAYES:  All right, coming up, the story behind this image from the southern

border of migrants being held in a holding pen beneath a highway overpass. 

How it happened, what it means next.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

HAYES:  Breaking news tonight on immigration, NBC News reporting that the

Department of Homeland Security plans  to ask congress for sweeping

authority to deport unaccompanied migrant children faster, along with other

changes.

 

The expected request comes as apprehensions at the southern border have

jumped recently, though still well below peaks from the early 2000s, as you

see there.

 

Customs and border protection says now that they`re overwhelmed by the

number of migrants arriving, although critics contend that the agency`s own

policies have exacerbated the situation.

 

In the meantime, we now have images like these out of El Paso yesterday

showing a makeshift overflowed detention area for migrants trying to cross

into the U.S.  As the Washington Post reported, quote, “an improvised

holding pen  beneath a highway overpass is serving as a processing center.”

 

Here with me now, NBC News national security and justice reporter Julia

Ainsley, who broke the story about the Department of Homeland Security and

unaccompanied minors.

 

What is the latest on that, Julia.

 

JULIA AINSLEY, NBC NEWS:  So, Chris, I got this letter that is on its way

to congress tonight, where Kirstjen Nielsen, secretary of DHS, is laying

out what she thinks are the legislative fixes that DHS needs in order to

deal with this influx of migrants.  Again, most of these are families with

children who are claiming asylum.

 

Her solution for this, she`s proposing this to congress, so it could be

dead on arrival when you have to get past House Democrats, but the

solutions are to return unaccompanied Central American children who come

here on their own who are typically going to HHS then placed with a

relative or sponsor, to go ahead and deport them back to their home

countries.  And then she wants to be able to hold families indefinitely,

that`s a policy we`ve heard them pitch before, but it`s been held up. 

 

She also wants for Central Americans to be able to apply for asylum in

their home countries.  Critics push back on that and say that that`s not a

solution for people fleeing violence.

 

And then she also wants more money.  And I heard from a senior

administration official it`s hundreds of thousands.  So, she`s not talking

million/billions, which is usually budget speak for more, but she says it`s

for what she thinks will be thousands more beds needed to hold children if

they don`t come through with these legislative fixes.

 

To me, it just outlines the priorities that they are still holding  to in

the wake of this influx.

 

HAYES:  Just quickly, there`s a consent decree that requires them only to

hold families for 20 days, so they have to get out of that.  I guess

there`s a statutory fix they want for that.

 

I terms of deportation, I mean, the unaccompanied minors do have a right to

asylum, there is a process, right, there is a credible fear intake

interview.  Are they going to short circuit that, are they going to change

the process?

 

AINSLEY:  Well, right, so they have that right, and children even have an

added right under something called TVPRA, where they`re from a non-

contiguous country, we have to bring them in, and

they aren`t readily deported.  We have to shelter them, provide some kind

of sponsor.  And they take a long time to go through the system.  And there

are protections in place for a reason.

 

But this is a process where she says that now too many children are coming

here, and it`s a pull factor.  She thinks that`s dangerous we should shut

off that pull factor by deporting children quickly and not putting them

through that process where they are have a sponsor advocating for them.

 

HAYES:  All right, Julia Ainsley, thank you for that great reporting.

 

Here with me now, Efren Olivares.  He`s the director of racial and economic

justice program at the Texas Civil Rights Project, intimately connected to

the work that`s happening on the border.

 

The story from the Trump administration and CBP, as you`ve seen it, is

there is this massive surge.  They have numbers that appear to back that

up.  We are overwhelmed and can`t deal with this.  We therefore need to

truncate the processes in place that give these people a process towards

asylum.  What do you think about that?

 

EFREN OLIVARES, TEXAS CIVIL RIGHTS PROJECT:  Well, as you mentioned, even

though there has been an increase in the numbers, it`s nowhere near to the

levels that we saw in 90s and the 2000s.  And the reality is that even if

there`s is this small increase, that`s not the reason for the current

situation.  The reason for that is two-fold.  The first you`ve gotten

people being turned away at the ports of entry.  So people are coming to

try to apply for asylum at a port of entry.  They are  turned back.  And

then they have to cross in between ports, so through the river.  And then

they`re arrested by border patrol.  And instead of gradually processing

them and releasing them, what the government is doing is accumulating them,

literally, in the CBP or border patrol detention facilities, and then

releasing them by the hundreds to create the semblance of a crisis, of

chaos.

 

And we saw the images yesterday in El Paso, literally caging immigrants in

internment camps to then justify and attempt to dismantle the asylum

system.  And that`s what that letter by Secretary Nielsen is.

 

HAYES:  I just want to be clear about this, so there`s two things here, and

I`ve been looking at the numbers.  There clearly is an uptick in crossing

between ports of entry because of the new metering

rules that are in effect, the people they have to wait in Mexico where it

can be very dangerous.  It`s unclear whether that`s driving all of the

surge, because there clearly is more – there are more people coming. 

 

The second thing you said, I want you to explain that and say what your

evidence is, what you are saying is they are manipulating the ways in which

they process folks to sort of warehouse a bunch of them and then release a

bunch of times so that they can create these images.  What`s the evidence

for that?

 

OLIVARES:  So, the number that we saw under zero tolerance prosecutions,

they started dropping from over 100 people a day in the 20s and the teens

over two weeks ago.  And instead of families being – if that was the

reason why that people were coming in larger numbers in families and they -

- and that`s why they were at capacity, instead of releasing on a daily

basis in an orderly fashion, then a few days later, four or five days, we

started seeing releases of 500, 600 people, in McAllen in particular.

 

HAYES:  I see, so what – as opposed to processing and release on a daily

basis, you see them go four or five days, so they have a big group of

people releasing them all at the same time.  And I have heard from social

service agencies, for instance, in El Paso, who have said that this has

been a thing that CBP has undertaken.  They have started dumping hundreds

of people at, say, a church at the

same time

 

OLIVARES:  That`s exactly right.  And it happened to conveniently coincide

with the visit of Secretary Nielsen to McAllen last week, and the secretary

of the CBP commissioner to El Paso yesterday, that`s when they release

them, to create these images and this perceptions of a crisis at the border

when none exist.

 

HAYES:  But, OK, but there are numbers going up, and there is a capacity

issue, right.  I mean, there really is a capacity issue, it does seem, in

HHS, to be able to process the amount of people in terms of immigration

judges, and find them sponsors, even if this was done in the most humane

way

possible.  Do you think they have the resources and capacity they need?

 

OLIVARES:  So, let`s focus on the resources on that.  Let`s send them some

asylum officers to the border to process these families at the ports of

entry, instead off trying now to deport Central American children without

any recourse, depriving them of their rights under the INA and the TVPRA,

the Torture Victim Protections Act.  Instead of focusing on that, let`s

revamp the asylum system to provide it with more resources so that we can

process these families properly.

 

HAYES:  We should note, also, that foreign aid to the countries in

question, Honduras, Guatemala and Ecuador – I`m sorry, Honduras,

Guatemala, and El Salvador have gone down quit a bit from peaks in 2017 to

what they are currently in 2019, sometimes by as much as 33 percent.

 

Efren Olivares, thank you for sharing that.

 

Ahead why did Donald Trump claim Trump Tower was 10 floors taller than it

really was?  The newly uncovered financial documents and why congress wants

to see them as well.

 

Plus, draining the swamp.  That`s  tonight`s Thing One, Thing Two starting

next.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

HAYES:  Thing One tonight, there`s only so much news in the Trump era, and

it moves so quickly, it`s easy to forget things that happened not that long

ago like, say, the fact that the president`s Interior Secretary, Ryan

Zinke, resigned in disgrace just three months ago after becoming the

subject of multiple federal investigations, and is, as far as we know,

still under investigation by the Justice Department.

 

That didn`t stop President Trump from nominating an arguably even more

corrupt and toxic person to replace him.

 

David Bernhardt is a former oil lobbyist who served as Zinke`s deputy of

Interior, helping shepherd policy, such as loosening the standards of the

Endangered Species Act, speeding the path to opening the Arctic National

Wildlife Refuge to new oil and gas drilling, and reducing the boundaries of

national monuments to open the land to mining and drilling.  Good stuff.

 

And Bernhardt appeared in front of the Senate Energy Committee today for

his confirmation hearing, and Democrats did not hold back.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

SEN. RON WYDEN, (D) OREGON:  You asked to come to my office to tell me your

ethics are unimpeachable, but these brand new documents I just saw make you

sound like just another corrupt official.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  Hold on a second.  What is that sitting over Mr. Bernhardt`s right

shoulder?  That`s Thing Two in 60 seconds.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

HAYES:  So Donald Trump`s choice to replace his scandal plagued former

Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke is ethically challenged former oil lobbyist,

David Bernhardt, who has been called, quote, the most dangerous man in

America for endangered species and public land by environmentalists.

 

He`s a swamp creature in the press, of course, referring to the president`s

old drain the swamp campaign promise, which explains why at Bernhardt`s

confirmation hearing in front of the Senate Energy Committee this morning

these two swamp things showed up.  Now, they were actually Green Peace

activists protesting Bernhardt`s nomination.  One of them managed to get a

prime spot right above Bernhardt`s right shoulder where she appeared during

an opening statement and remained for an entire hour, offering amusing

subtle reactions throughout his testimony.

 

The swamp thing performance was highly entertaining for lots of C-SPAN

users and Twitter users, but it looks like their message did not quite

reach the president.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

TRUMP:  We need to finish exactly what we came here to do, drain the swamp. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

HAYES:  In his explosive testimony to congress last month, Michael Cohen

explicitly called his long-time boss Donald Trump a cheat, and he told us

how the president cheats.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER:  It was my experience that Mr. Trump

inflated his total assets when it served his purposes, such as trying to be

listed amongst the wealthiest

people in Forbes, and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  But lying to Forbes to make yourself look richer than you are is

sad and weird and kind of broken in a way, but it`s not illegal.  But lying

to a bank or insurer about your assets, that`s a different story.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

COHEN:  I`m giving to the committee today three years of Mr. Trump`s

personal financial statements from 2011, 2012 and 2013, which he gave to

Deutsche Bank to inquire about a loan to buy the Buffalo Bills.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  Tonight, The Washington Post has some remarkable reporting on those

financial statements as well as statements from 2002 and 2004.  The Post

showed them to an accounting professor who told the reporters he had never

seen a statement full of such egregious lies, I  quote him here, “it`s

humorous.  It`s a humorous financial statement.”

 

And he is not wrong.  According to The Post, Trump claimed revenue from 24

lots at a Southern California golf course that don`t exist.  He also added

800 nonexistent acres to the size of his vineyard in Virginia, and my

personal favorite, Trump added 10 imaginary stories to Trump Tower, falsely

claiming it was 68 stories tall.  It`s not.

 

There are more examples, more lies, that could come back to haunt Trump. 

The House Oversight Committee has requested 10 years of financial records

from Trump`s accountant.  And New York`s Department of Financial Services

has subpoenaed records from Trump`s insurer Aon (ph) with the Post

reporting that a key component of the investigation was questions about

whether Trump had given Aon (ph) these documents in an effort to lower his

insurance premiums.

 

With that sort of financial chicanery appears to be a bit of a pattern in

Trump world.  Among the charges that Trump`s former campaign chairman Paul

Manafort was found guilty of was lying to banks in order to generate cash. 

Thanks to that crime, and others, Manafort is set to spend more than seven

years in jail.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, (D) NEW YORK:  You want to tell people that

their concern and desire for clean air and clean water is elitist?  That to

the kinds in the South Bronx, which are suffering from the highest rates of

childhood asthma in the country, tell that to the families in

Flint whose kids have – their blood is ascending in lead levels, their

brains are damaged for the rest of their lives, call them elitist.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  There is a reason Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,

specifically brought the Bronx this week while defending the Green New

Deal, and it`s not just because the Bronx is her  constituency, it`s the

same reason we are doing a special event with her in the Bronx tomorrow on

the Green New Deal, and it`s because the particular threat that climate

change poses to that borough.  Among many other things, it`s home to one of

the largest food distribution facilities in the world, threatened by storms

and rising tides, its home to some of the poorest people in New York City,

indeed in the country, and home to neighborhoods that are already dealing

with all kinds of environmental

degradation.

 

All In corespondent Trymaine Lee explains.

 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

 

TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT:  The Hunts Point Market is the

largest food distribution center on the planet.  Every year, $5 billion

worth of meat, produce and fish pass through here feeding some 21 million

people in the region.  The vast market spreads across 329 acres on the tip

of the South Bronx. 

 

But this valuable stretch of shoreline is among the most vulnerable in the

city.  Nothing protects it from being devastated by storm surge.

 

DANIEL KANE, PRESIDENT, TEAMSTERS LOCAL 202:  We`re out here on a

peninsula.  When Hurricane Sandy came, we got a little bit lucky.  We

flooded a little bit, but not as bad as it could have been had the tidal

surge been different.

 

The regional economy could be washed away literally if the storm surge was

to breach.  These markets are vulnerable to that and that would be

catastrophic to the area.

 

LEE:  When you think about protecting the environment, you think about the

Green New

Deal, should workers be scared of those ideas?

 

KANE:  Workers should be engaged in them.  I think often they are used as

political footballs to divide groups.  Well, if you`re for the environment,

you`re anti-business.  And I don`t think that`s true.  I know it`s not

true, because we worked here to try to do both.

 

Who wants polluted water?  Nobody wants that.

 

LEE:  The balance between jobs and a clean environment is an everyday

reality for many people in the South Bronx.

 

MYCHAL JOHNSON, CO-FOUNDER, SOUTH BRONX UNITED:  These communities of color

that are on the front line on environmental justice are the ones of climate

change, which is one and the same, are the ones who suffer the most.

 

LEE:  How much of that has to do with who we`re talking about, the racial

demographic, that we`re talking about poor black and brown people?

 

JOHNSON:  Wow, I mean, we call it environmental racism.  This community was

mostly a white neighborhood that was more economically affluent, this kind

of degradation of our environment would not be existing.  You wouldn`t see

a heavy industrial uses in one area, all centralize in a poor community of

color.

 

LEE:  The South Bronx is one of the poorest congressional districts in the

nation.  Diesel delivery trucks and industrial sites pollute the air.

 

DIOR ST. HILLARIE, FOUNDER, GREENFEEN ORGANIX:  The South Bronx is actually

one of the districts that processes a large part of New York City`s waste. 

We have over 30 percent that`s processed here, and so as a result of that,

we have poor, poor air quality, it`s environmental justice community, a

community that has waste inequity.

 

By being able to recruit people that come from these environmental justice

communities, they`ve been affected by the waste inequities, and our hope

and vision in the future is that we`re able to

now give them gainful employment, that they can be part and sustain

themselves and their families.

 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

 

HAYES:  And Trymaine Lee joins me now.

 

There are a lot of problems in the South Bronx related to sort of poverty

and infrastructure, but the air quality is one.  I mean, it`s a place that

because of the Diesel trucks, because of the heavy industry, there`s a real

– there`s a real challenge for folks that live there.

 

LEE:  When you think about environmental concerns, it`s easy to think about

the coast, the red

and blue-green algae, or fracking in the Midwest.  But when you think about

these urban environments, you have the diesel fuel, you have proximity to

all these toxins and waste treatment plants, but you

also have kids who are dying every single day of asthma and other co-

morbidities.

 

And so when folks talk about it`s elitist, go to the South Bronx and talk

about elitist.  You stand on 138th street – we stood there half of the

afternoon, and watched truck after truck go by.  You don`t see that in

other communities, you simply don`t.

 

HAYES:  Yeah, and this – and in that specific case, right, we`re talking

about a diesel engine

and you`re talking about a combustion engine, that`s part of what`s driving

climate change as well.  I mean, part of the theory behind the Green New

Deal, right, is sort of two birds, one stone approach.  What do you learn

when you went to Hunts Point Market, which is one of the most fascinating

points of this city?

 

LEE:  You know, I was skeptical going in, because I`m saying they are

contributing to this, right.  But when you talk to the union worker, you

talk to Daniel who is president of the Teamsters out there, he says it`s

simple, right.  We just find ways to cut back on our degradation of the

community.  We have to drive trucks through, but let`s find different

routes.

 

I think what`s interesting, also, is that when you talk about this cycle of

we create the greenhouse gases and the toxic soup, they had the

sledgehammer of hurricanes more often and heavier coming through, but then

those who are vulnerable before the storm are made more so after, because

when you have low property values, and folks who don`t own much anyway,

they`re less likely  to reap any return. 

 

But the middle class and the upper class, they benefit.  You can expand

that market.  You can the new roof on the house.

 

And so this cycle that we see, the loser always is the poor and working

class.

 

HAYES:  Yeah, one of the things, you know, and New York City is now talking

about a sort of

climate mitigation project, and, you know, someone I have talked to is

talking about about Lower

Manhattan, which is the most valuable real estate in the world, that`s

probably going to have a huge seawall protecting it.  It`s unclear whether

the south Bronx is going to get the same thing.

 

LEE:  Cinder blocks.  You go there…

 

HAYES:  It`s wild.

 

LEE:  It`s amazing.  And you see per usual who and what they are trying to

protect.  When you go to the South Bronx, but that market alone, if that

goes under water, 12 hours later if Sandy had struck 12 hours later, you

would have 12, 13 feet of water flooding place.

 

HAYES:  Trymaine Lee, that`s great reporting.  That`s Hunt`s Point in New

York City, in my home borough of the Bronx, thank you so much for doing

that.

 

LEE:  Thank you.

 

HAYES:  We`ll see you tomorrow, right?

 

LEE:  Yes, sir.

 

HAYES:  All right, that is All In for this evening.  Tomorrow, as I said,

we`re going to be holding this special event.  We`ve been working really

hard on, it`s in my home borough of the Bronx.  It`s All In America: The

Green New Deal with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.  We`ve got a bunch of people

coming.  We`ve got some experts who are sort of the brains behind the Green

New Deal, and we`re going to try to get to the bottom of something that has

been really lost in the coverage of this extremely polarizing policy that

dominates Trump TV and a lot of conservative talk radio, which is what is

it?  What is it?  And what does it mean?  So, don`t miss it tomorrow night

right here at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

 

“THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW” starts right now. 

 

Good evening, Rachel.

 

 

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY

BE UPDATED.

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