The Trump attack on Healthcare. TRANSCRIPT: 3/28/19, All In w/ Chris Hayes.
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: That`s HARDBALL for now. “ALL IN” with Chris
Hayes starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on ALL IN.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: You might
say that`s just what you need to do to win but I don`t think it`s OK. I
think it`s immoral.
HAYES: Republicans attempt a coup in the House.
SCHIFF: I think it`s unpatriotic and yes, I think it`s corrupt and
evidence of collusion.
HAYES: As we get our first reports about the size of the Mueller report.
ANDREW NAPOLITANO, CONTRIBUTOR, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: In that report will be
evidence of the existence of a conspiracy.
HAYES: Tonight, what we know about the more than 300 pages in the special
counsel report and the Republican effort to keep it hidden.
NAPOLITANO: In that report will be evidence of obstruction of justice.
HAYES: Then, 2020 candidate Amy Klobuchar on Mueller, the attack on
ObamaCare and her big policy announcement. Plus, just what is happening at
the border, and Trymaine Lee reports on why they need a Green New Deal in
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D), NEW YORK: People are dying.
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Good evening from New York I`m Chris Hayes. We now know the length
and the title of the actual Mueller report that has been kept from view in
the four page book report offered by Attorney General Bill Barr. New York
Times was first to report that it is more than 300 pages long and titled
the report on the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016
Because of course the entirety of the investigation itself centered around
the fact that a foreign intelligence service intervened as a sophisticated
and fairly widespread way to tip the election towards Donald Trump. The
question that we`ve been asking was did any Americans help in that.
Barr quoting a partial sentence in the underlying report said the
investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign
conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election
But even the most good-faith four-page summary of a 300-plus page document
is necessarily going to leave out a lot of stuff to remain. Republicans
have clearly seen an opportunity with the four-page summary of the 300-page
report to win some kind of final rhetorical battle over Democrats who have
been pointing out established publicly accessible facts about the behavior
of the Trump campaign during that election.
Today all nine GOP members of the House Intelligence Committee demanded
Chairman Adam Schiff resign for repeatedly claiming the Trump campaign
colluded with the Russian government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE CONAWAY (D), TEXAS: The findings of the special counsel
conclusively refute your past and present assertions and have exposed you
as having abused your position to knowingly promote false information. As
such we have no faith in your ability to discharge your duties in a manner
consistent with your constitutional responsibilities and urge your
immediate resignation as chairman of the committee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: But Schiff was not having it. It is worth noting that we only have
time to play a portion of Schiff`s response. I`m going to turn to our
witnesses who are the top of the hearing today but before I do – and as it
as you have chosen instead of addressing the hearing to simply attacked me
consistent with the President`s attacks, I do want to respond in this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHIFF: My colleagues may think it`s OK that the Russians offered dirt on
a Democratic candidate for president as part of what was described as the
Russian government`s effort to help the Trump campaign. You might think
y colleagues might think it`s OK that when that was offered to the son of
the president who had a pivotal role in the campaign, that the president`s
son did not call the FBI. He did not adamantly refuse that foreign help.
No instead that son said that he would love the help of the Russians.
And I will tell you one more thing that is apropos of the hearing today. I
don`t think it`s OK that during a presidential campaign Mr. Trump sought
the Kremlin`s help to consummate a real estate deal in Moscow that would
make him a fortune. According to special counsel hundreds of millions of
I don`t think it`s OK that he concealed it from the public. I don`t think
it`s OK that he advocated a new and more favorable policy towards the
Russians even as he was seeking the Russians help, the Kremlin`s helped to
make money. I don`t think it`s OK that his attorney lied to our committee.
There`s a different word for that than collusion and it`s called compromise
and that is the subject of our hearing today. Mr. Ambassador, you are
recognized for your opening statement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will the chairman yield? Will the chairman yield?
Will the chairman yield?
SCHIFF: I will not yield. Mr. Ambassador –
REP. MICHAEL TURNER (R), OHIO: Will the Chairman yield because you just
make some things about all of us that I think we all should get the
opportunity to respond to.
SCHIFF: I will – I will –I will not yield.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re going to say we think you ought to allow us to
speak of what you think.
SCHIFF: You can use your five minutes to speak. You attacked me in your
opening statement and –
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have not had an opportunity respond at all especially
to your statements of what we think, because no one over here thinks that.
No one over here –
SCHIFF: Mr. Turner, you`re not recognized. Ambassador McFaul, you`re
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Now, Adam Schiff was just one of a list of Democratic targets sent
out by of all people the Trump 2020 Campaign that had a memo about how
guess that you`re booking might be unreliable. They don`t like when people
are factually unreliable. And joining me now is another lawmaker on that
list Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut. He sits on the Senate
Judiciary Committee. Good to have you here, Senator.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT), SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Thank you.
SCHIFF: I want to read you the quote that was in the booking memo from the
Trump 2020 campaign because it was something he said to me. On October
17th of last year, the evidence is pretty clear that there was collusion
between the Trump campaign and the Russians. Were you wrong?
BLUMENTHAL: I was right and you`ve just heard why I was right from Adam
Schiff and I can give you a list of the evidence of collusion.
HAYES: But isn`t that defining collusion down? You`re – what you`re
saying is a collusion appropriately names the – what we already know about
the publicly accessible information behavior of the Trump campaign.
BLUMENTHAL: What we have publicly accessible like the Trump Tower meeting
involving the president`s son-in-law, campaign manager and son, or the
providing of private polling data to the Russians while they were
conducting a social media manipulation campaign, aiding Trump, or the Trump
Tower negotiations for a Moscow Tower. All of these instances and there
are many more are already in the public domain.
What we don`t have is the Trump-Mueller report. We have the Barr book
report. And there is likely to be a lot more evidence of the conspiracy
even if it doesn`t rise to the level of proof beyond reasonable doubt.
HAYES: So I want to – I want to put some markers down in advance right.
I mean, my position on this is I have no idea what`s in that report. I am
inclined to think there will not be a substantial or shocking distance
between the summary is provided by Barr the actual report itself. What is
BLUMENTHAL: My expectation is that there will be more evidence of both
conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russians but also more
evidence of obstruction. And the reason that`s important is number one,
the Barr book report, its summary of the Mueller report says that it did
not exonerate the president.
HAYES: Explicitly quoted. One of the few things it quotes is that an
explicit non exoneration from Bob Mueller.
BLUMENTHAL: One of those 42 words that he quote is that there`s no
exoneration. And obstruction is fundamental here because it involves the
hindering of an investigation which might have disclosed more evidence of
that conspiracy like criminal intent. But here`s the main point, Chris,
none of us know what is in the Mueller report. The American people
deserve. They paid for it.
They need to know everything that is in it. And the failure to disclose it
fully and completely would smack of a cover-up and forever taint attorney-
HAYES: It does seem to me – it`s a weird thing because nominally
everybody agrees that it should come out. I saw polling today 75 percent
of people, 420-0 in the House, unanimous consent to – for a similar
resolution. The Senate`s been denied twice now launched by Mitch McConnell
launched by Rand Paul.
Barr doesn`t seem to be covering things up or at least dragging his feet or
does he? I mean, what do you think the status of this is?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, the Attorney General William Barr has been
extraordinarily adroit. This letter is elegantly but brazenly in a way
avoidance of the truth. He has framed the headlines, he has created the
message. We have yet to see the substance. And he said in response to my
urging him to support my legislation with Senator Graham, Senator Grassley,
bipartisan, that he would look at it but he couldn`t commit to it.
And that legislation would require full and complete disclosure. He has
yet to commit to it. My fear is he will redact it. He will resort to
executive privilege. He will say that certain parts of it should be kept
private for reasons that relate to the confidentiality of individuals. We
need to see the whole report.
HAYES: Are you confident that should there be redactions or things
withheld for any of three reasons – and as I track them I think it`s
classified information, grand jury secrecy, and assertions of executive
privilege. I think those are three categories. Is it your expectation
that those redactions will be flagged as such in the report, meaning you
will know that there are portions not there?
BLUMENTHAL: My hope is that they will flag them. I have no confidence
that the attorney general will. I think given his –
HAYES: So you think he just edit it out.
BLUMENTHAL: He may just edit it out –
HAYES: You don`t trust that he – you don`t have any –
BLUMENTHAL: I have no confidence in the Barr version if it is redacted
without any explanation as to either of those legitimate reasons. The 6E
order of grand jury secrecy, the need for confidentiality based on ongoing
investigations, or certain privacy interests that may be asserted. But my
fear is he will resort to executive privilege which has no basis
HAYES: All right, Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, good to have
you back. Thank you very much.
BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.
HAYES: For more on the Republican push to declare victory on the Mueller
report, we`ve got two guests with unique insight on subject. Elizabeth
Holtzman, former Democratic Congresswoman who served in the House Judiciary
Committee which voted for the impeachment of President Richard Nixon and
she`s also the author of The Case for Impeaching Trump. And Bob Bauer
former White House Counsel to President Barack Obama, now professor of law
at New York University Law School.
Let me ask you first your impressions, Liz, about that letter and about the
letter with the fact today that it`s a 300-page report that he was
summarizing, something that we did not know until today.
ELIZABETH HOLTZMAN (D), FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN: Well, I think Senator
Blumenthal summed it up very correctly. This letter is a disingenuous
effort to try to suggest that the president of the United States is somehow
innocent. The fact of the matter is that not having seen the report, a 300
pages not all about nothing. It`s all about something.
HOLTZMAN: And the American – the real question here is whether we`re
seeing a cover-up in slow motion or fast motion or whether the American
people are going to get the facts because the the issue here is if we don`t
get the facts, we`re not going to know whether the President of the United
States actually engaged in criminal conduct because we have mister Barr`s
version right of what is criminal and not, but maybe Mr. Mueller`s
assessment of the and suggest something else.
We don`t know how Mueller has presented the evidence. We don`t know how
strong it is and the American people need to know whether the man sitting
in the White House is a crook or not. That is really the central issue
here whether he is engaged in criminal conduct.
Remember one of the things that that Barr says is that Mueller failed or
did not engage in traditional prosecutorial judgment.
HOLTZMAN: Well, what`s that about? I mean that`s really –
HAYES: It`s a weird phrase.
HOLTZMAN: Well, what we need to know is whether under traditional
prosecutorial standards a crime was committed or not and we need to know
whether the reason the prosecution wasn`t engaged in here was because there
was a legal barrier and not a factual barrier.
HAYES: Bob, you served as White House Counsel in the – in the Obama
administration, and I`m curious about the question of executive privilege.
Is it your expectation that the report in full has gone to the White House
Counsel or will go to the White House Counsel in advance of any disclosures
by Barr to give an opportunity for redactions and assertions of executive
BOB BAUER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL TO PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Yes, that
would absolutely be my expectation. And if there`s one thing I think we
know about Attorney General Barr, he has very strong views about executive
authority and those translated I think in this instance into strong views
about the protection of privileges, I would be absolutely astonished if he
did not engage the White House Counsel in a discussion about the basis that
they will claim for any redactions grounded in that privilege.
HAYES: One thing about executive privilege questions that I always find
confusing just to follow up on that is essentially who adjudicates them in
the end? I mean, if the White House Counsel says yes, actually all 300
pages are covered by executive privilege, you can give them a sheets of
paper with all blacked out go ahead, who`s to say they can`t do that?
BAUER: Barr would know that if a claim that extreme and absurd is made, he
would know perfectly well that should come to a confrontation with the
Congress. Then eventually the courts would decide and the administration
would certainly lose.
HAYES: I see.
Bauer: So I think Barr would very much not want to lose that kind of
battle and I think he would be calling on the White House Council to
exercise the best possible judgment in these matters. Let me – let me
also just say one additional point about this. It is important to have the
report not only as Congresswoman Holtzman said because there`s ongoing
questions about whether the President in fact did engage in conduct in
violation of the law.
The report is important also because this is a president who is shattering
norms one after the other that are essential to the presidency as a
constitutional office consistent with our expectations about how the
government would run. And we shouldn`t lose that public interest to
mention here as well.
This is not all about the law as important as that inquiry continues to be,
it`s also about the judgments we draw about the sort of presidency that we
can abide in this country. So I don`t want to lose sight of that as well.
HAYES: There`s also to me – you know, let`s say that – let`s say there`s
three categories of the report. There`s stuff about obstruction, there`s
stuff about whether any Americans, U.S. persons or Trump campaign officials
conspire to coordinate with the Russians, and then there`s the stuff on the
Russian plot itself, what they did.
Even if everything in those two categories are exculpatory, and we know
they`re not on obstruction, but let`s say everything having to do with
coordination is exculpatory, even new – we`d learn new facts that are
exculpatory towards the Trump campaign –
HAYES: Unlikely but let`s say that happens, there`s still a lot to know
about what the Russians did. I mean, all we have are basically two
indictments. Why`d they decide to do it? How did they pull it off? How
long ago did they go? Did they start with Trump of the primary? Did they
go into general election?
HOLTZMAN: Well, one of the things you need – we need to emphasize at this
point is that Donald Trump still has not acknowledged the existence of
Russian interference in this election.
HAYES: Right, exactly.
HOLTZMAN: And that`s a really important thing. He keeps calling this a
hoax but the important thing for the American people to know is that a
foreign government tried to put his finger on the scale, try to effect an
American election, tried to destroy the right of – the right of our free
vote and that`s – what are we going to do after the next election. So
this is really important for this – for this document to become public not
only for the reasons that that I suggested and that Mr. Barr – Professor
HAYES: Elizabeth Holtzman and Bob Bauer, thank you both for making time
tonight. I really appreciate it.
HOLTZMAN: Thank you.
HAYES: Up next, 2020 presidential candidate Senator Amy Klobuchar
accomplishes something the President hasn`t managed to do in two years in
office. The Senator joins me in two minutes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We`re working on a plan now.
There`s no very great rush from the standpoint. We`re waiting for
decisions in the court. If we win on the termination of ObamaCare we will
have a plan that`s far better than ObamaCare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That is a funny bit that he likes to do. Donald Trump wants to
destroy the American health care system as it currently exists under
ObamaCare with no plan at all as you just heard for what to do afterwards.
And considering the last time the Republican Party tried to get rid of
ObamaCare it cost them control of the House and several state capitals,
many Republicans are pretty spooked by the President`s latest anti-
One Republican senator who didn`t want to use their name told Politico, “We
need a plan and right now we don`t have one. I`m not going to just throw
this to the whims of our creativity.” For years now literally, the
President has been promising some beautiful perfect health care plan that
is of course yet to materialize which is not unlike his beautiful
Well, today, Democratic Senator and Presidential Candidate Amy Klobuchar
rolled out an actual infrastructure plan to spend $1 trillion in federal
funds for state and local governments to upgrade not only crumbling roads,
highways, and bridges, but also schools, airports, water systems, internet
access, public transit, and energy systems.
And Senator Amy Klobuchar, a Democrat from Minnesota and 2020 Presidential
candidate joins me now. Senator –
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hey, Chris!
HAYES: It`s good to see you. So am I not understand this which is the
first big policy rollout you`ve had, this would be your first big domestic
priority where you elected president, you had a Congress you could work
with, this is the first thing you`d come out with?
KLOBUCHAR: This is the first big bill that I had worked with to get
through the Congress. I think there`s other things that that I`d like to
do immediately like get us back into that climate change agreement. You
can do that with the stroke of a pen or put forward some of these clean
power rules. But this would be a big project that you clearly would have
to work with Republicans in the Senate. Hopefully we will be in control of
the Senate. But you`d want to work with people to get this done.
So what I did here is something the president seemingly has been unable to
do even though he said this was one of his top priorities. And that is lay
out a plan for infrastructure, everything from roads and bridges, of course
motivated by what happened in my state a mile from my house when that
bridge fell down in the middle of a summer day killing 13 people.
Look at rail systems and water system, looks at the flooding that we`re
seeing right now in Iowa and a lot of this means infrastructure, it means
sewer systems, some of the stuff that`s not so glamorous. Crumbling public
schools like we saw in Baltimore this last winter where the heat wasn`t
even working. So these are things we have to do as a nation. And I also
showed how I was going to pay for it.
And so far this president`s plan has been a mirage, Chris. He said he
wants to do it and then he maybe puts a fifth of the money out there and
doesn`t really show how he`s going to pay for it and hasn`t been able to
get it done.
HAYES: One of the things that I think the first item as I was going
through his roads and bridges and things like that. You talk about
congestion and the like. You also talked about the need to build green
infrastructure. Do you see those as intention in any way right? Building
out the infrastructure for fossil fuel driven cars and the way those drive
emissions with expanding the transportation infrastructure under the kind
of old combustion engine automobile?
KLOBUCHAR: Not really because I think you`re going to have an electric
grid in the future as we`re going to see more and more transition. You`re
still going to need roads but you are going to have to adjust some of the
signage and things like that and how those roads work. But certainly, part
of this is transit and making sure we have good rail and other things that
are very consistent with those goals.
And one of the ways you pay for this which you didn`t ask but I just can`t
help but want to put out there because there are ways to pay for this, and
that is the portion of the Republican tax plan that was so regressive where
the corporate tax went all the way down to 21 percent. Every point was
So literally you could still be at 25 percent and have $400 billion for
infrastructure. The way they did that overseas money which was an avenue -
- just unbelievable because no one could really figure it out. Remember
how that thing came up so quickly?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, they did it as an average of all the country`s taxes
instead of taking each country`s taxes. You could say $150 billion on that
– on that overseas money. And so you combine it plus you do some
government bonds and an infrastructure financing authority which will
attract some private money, and that`s about a third of this. And you
literally can get to the trillion dollars. Something that Democrats and
Republicans and independents have been asking for a long time.
HAYES: Yes. There`s an argument to be made that the depths of the
corporate tax cuts give Democrats a kind of pay for a lot of stuff should
they take office because they cut so deeply. You voted present this week
along with your colleagues except for four I think on the Green New Deal.
People said it was a sort of gimmick by McConnell. You weren`t going to
play his game. But do you support it? What is your feeling about it?
KLOBUCHAR: Yes. I`m a co-sponsor and I think it is so important to move
forward and just stop talking about this problem and start doing something
about it. You know, if we could put a man on the moon, we can meet some of
these goals. We may not reach every single goal. I think it is important
though not to squelch the energy behind the Green New Deal.
And I was glad that we handled it the way we did because instead of
actually coming up with some new plans and how we`re going to do the
everything from gas mileage standards that I`d like to bring back, like
that squelch to the clean power rules, Mitch McConnell is just playing
games. He wanted to see if he could you know, create a divide among
Democrats in the U.S. Senate. And he pretty much lost that bid.
Because instead, we turned it on them and said OK, just like we`re doing on
health care like you started out. What`s your plan? You`ve got a
president that`s decided he wants to kick everyone off for pre-existing
conditions, you have a president that`s going backwards on climate change
while fires are raging and floods are coming down the Midwest all the way
south. This is going on right now and instead of playing politics, maybe
you should come up with a plan. And if you can`t, the voters already spoke
in 2018 and they`re going to speak again in 2020.
HAYES: I want to ask you before I let you go about an exchange you have
with Rand Paul today on the floor of the Senate. You –
KLOBUCHAR: Oh, that`s always fun.
HAYES: You asked for unanimous consent for a resolution similar to the one
that passed in the House 420-0 to make the full Mueller report public. He
objected a unanimous consent, said he wants all of the – I guess material
that began the investigation or Obama to be made public. You objected to
that. How did you – how did you read his objection, is it a good-faith
one or a bad faith one?
KLOBUCHAR: I don`t think that was good faith. And I kept going back to
him with you know what, 420-0 in the House of Representatives. They voted
that this report should be public. Nearly 90 percent of the public wants
to see it. Why? I think at its core we need to see this for national
It`s hundreds of pages. We`re going to find out much more about what the
Russians did, and we`ve got bills on the table right now to secure our
election equipment. My bipartisan bill to have backup paper ballots, this
is going to give me what I need to make the case. And so I think the
public needs to see it. I made a very simple argument. And I was actually
quite surprised that they objected given the vote that we saw in the House.
HAYES: Yes. I find the objection a little weird too. Senator Amy
Klobuchar, thanks so much for coming by. Come back again.
KLOBUCHAR: Thank you. It was great to be on, Christ.
HAYES: All right, coming up, the story behind this image from the southern
border of migrants being held in a holding pen beneath a highway overpass.
How it happened, what it means next.
HAYES: Breaking news tonight on immigration, NBC News reporting that the
Department of Homeland Security plans to ask congress for sweeping
authority to deport unaccompanied migrant children faster, along with other
The expected request comes as apprehensions at the southern border have
jumped recently, though still well below peaks from the early 2000s, as you
Customs and border protection says now that they`re overwhelmed by the
number of migrants arriving, although critics contend that the agency`s own
policies have exacerbated the situation.
In the meantime, we now have images like these out of El Paso yesterday
showing a makeshift overflowed detention area for migrants trying to cross
into the U.S. As the Washington Post reported, quote, “an improvised
holding pen beneath a highway overpass is serving as a processing center.”
Here with me now, NBC News national security and justice reporter Julia
Ainsley, who broke the story about the Department of Homeland Security and
What is the latest on that, Julia.
JULIA AINSLEY, NBC NEWS: So, Chris, I got this letter that is on its way
to congress tonight, where Kirstjen Nielsen, secretary of DHS, is laying
out what she thinks are the legislative fixes that DHS needs in order to
deal with this influx of migrants. Again, most of these are families with
children who are claiming asylum.
Her solution for this, she`s proposing this to congress, so it could be
dead on arrival when you have to get past House Democrats, but the
solutions are to return unaccompanied Central American children who come
here on their own who are typically going to HHS then placed with a
relative or sponsor, to go ahead and deport them back to their home
countries. And then she wants to be able to hold families indefinitely,
that`s a policy we`ve heard them pitch before, but it`s been held up.
She also wants for Central Americans to be able to apply for asylum in
their home countries. Critics push back on that and say that that`s not a
solution for people fleeing violence.
And then she also wants more money. And I heard from a senior
administration official it`s hundreds of thousands. So, she`s not talking
million/billions, which is usually budget speak for more, but she says it`s
for what she thinks will be thousands more beds needed to hold children if
they don`t come through with these legislative fixes.
To me, it just outlines the priorities that they are still holding to in
the wake of this influx.
HAYES: Just quickly, there`s a consent decree that requires them only to
hold families for 20 days, so they have to get out of that. I guess
there`s a statutory fix they want for that.
I terms of deportation, I mean, the unaccompanied minors do have a right to
asylum, there is a process, right, there is a credible fear intake
interview. Are they going to short circuit that, are they going to change
AINSLEY: Well, right, so they have that right, and children even have an
added right under something called TVPRA, where they`re from a non-
contiguous country, we have to bring them in, and
they aren`t readily deported. We have to shelter them, provide some kind
of sponsor. And they take a long time to go through the system. And there
are protections in place for a reason.
But this is a process where she says that now too many children are coming
here, and it`s a pull factor. She thinks that`s dangerous we should shut
off that pull factor by deporting children quickly and not putting them
through that process where they are have a sponsor advocating for them.
HAYES: All right, Julia Ainsley, thank you for that great reporting.
Here with me now, Efren Olivares. He`s the director of racial and economic
justice program at the Texas Civil Rights Project, intimately connected to
the work that`s happening on the border.
The story from the Trump administration and CBP, as you`ve seen it, is
there is this massive surge. They have numbers that appear to back that
up. We are overwhelmed and can`t deal with this. We therefore need to
truncate the processes in place that give these people a process towards
asylum. What do you think about that?
EFREN OLIVARES, TEXAS CIVIL RIGHTS PROJECT: Well, as you mentioned, even
though there has been an increase in the numbers, it`s nowhere near to the
levels that we saw in 90s and the 2000s. And the reality is that even if
there`s is this small increase, that`s not the reason for the current
situation. The reason for that is two-fold. The first you`ve gotten
people being turned away at the ports of entry. So people are coming to
try to apply for asylum at a port of entry. They are turned back. And
then they have to cross in between ports, so through the river. And then
they`re arrested by border patrol. And instead of gradually processing
them and releasing them, what the government is doing is accumulating them,
literally, in the CBP or border patrol detention facilities, and then
releasing them by the hundreds to create the semblance of a crisis, of
And we saw the images yesterday in El Paso, literally caging immigrants in
internment camps to then justify and attempt to dismantle the asylum
system. And that`s what that letter by Secretary Nielsen is.
HAYES: I just want to be clear about this, so there`s two things here, and
I`ve been looking at the numbers. There clearly is an uptick in crossing
between ports of entry because of the new metering
rules that are in effect, the people they have to wait in Mexico where it
can be very dangerous. It`s unclear whether that`s driving all of the
surge, because there clearly is more – there are more people coming.
The second thing you said, I want you to explain that and say what your
evidence is, what you are saying is they are manipulating the ways in which
they process folks to sort of warehouse a bunch of them and then release a
bunch of times so that they can create these images. What`s the evidence
OLIVARES: So, the number that we saw under zero tolerance prosecutions,
they started dropping from over 100 people a day in the 20s and the teens
over two weeks ago. And instead of families being – if that was the
reason why that people were coming in larger numbers in families and they -
- and that`s why they were at capacity, instead of releasing on a daily
basis in an orderly fashion, then a few days later, four or five days, we
started seeing releases of 500, 600 people, in McAllen in particular.
HAYES: I see, so what – as opposed to processing and release on a daily
basis, you see them go four or five days, so they have a big group of
people releasing them all at the same time. And I have heard from social
service agencies, for instance, in El Paso, who have said that this has
been a thing that CBP has undertaken. They have started dumping hundreds
of people at, say, a church at the
OLIVARES: That`s exactly right. And it happened to conveniently coincide
with the visit of Secretary Nielsen to McAllen last week, and the secretary
of the CBP commissioner to El Paso yesterday, that`s when they release
them, to create these images and this perceptions of a crisis at the border
when none exist.
HAYES: But, OK, but there are numbers going up, and there is a capacity
issue, right. I mean, there really is a capacity issue, it does seem, in
HHS, to be able to process the amount of people in terms of immigration
judges, and find them sponsors, even if this was done in the most humane
possible. Do you think they have the resources and capacity they need?
OLIVARES: So, let`s focus on the resources on that. Let`s send them some
asylum officers to the border to process these families at the ports of
entry, instead off trying now to deport Central American children without
any recourse, depriving them of their rights under the INA and the TVPRA,
the Torture Victim Protections Act. Instead of focusing on that, let`s
revamp the asylum system to provide it with more resources so that we can
process these families properly.
HAYES: We should note, also, that foreign aid to the countries in
question, Honduras, Guatemala and Ecuador – I`m sorry, Honduras,
Guatemala, and El Salvador have gone down quit a bit from peaks in 2017 to
what they are currently in 2019, sometimes by as much as 33 percent.
Efren Olivares, thank you for sharing that.
Ahead why did Donald Trump claim Trump Tower was 10 floors taller than it
really was? The newly uncovered financial documents and why congress wants
to see them as well.
Plus, draining the swamp. That`s tonight`s Thing One, Thing Two starting
HAYES: Thing One tonight, there`s only so much news in the Trump era, and
it moves so quickly, it`s easy to forget things that happened not that long
ago like, say, the fact that the president`s Interior Secretary, Ryan
Zinke, resigned in disgrace just three months ago after becoming the
subject of multiple federal investigations, and is, as far as we know,
still under investigation by the Justice Department.
That didn`t stop President Trump from nominating an arguably even more
corrupt and toxic person to replace him.
David Bernhardt is a former oil lobbyist who served as Zinke`s deputy of
Interior, helping shepherd policy, such as loosening the standards of the
Endangered Species Act, speeding the path to opening the Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge to new oil and gas drilling, and reducing the boundaries of
national monuments to open the land to mining and drilling. Good stuff.
And Bernhardt appeared in front of the Senate Energy Committee today for
his confirmation hearing, and Democrats did not hold back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RON WYDEN, (D) OREGON: You asked to come to my office to tell me your
ethics are unimpeachable, but these brand new documents I just saw make you
sound like just another corrupt official.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Hold on a second. What is that sitting over Mr. Bernhardt`s right
shoulder? That`s Thing Two in 60 seconds.
HAYES: So Donald Trump`s choice to replace his scandal plagued former
Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke is ethically challenged former oil lobbyist,
David Bernhardt, who has been called, quote, the most dangerous man in
America for endangered species and public land by environmentalists.
He`s a swamp creature in the press, of course, referring to the president`s
old drain the swamp campaign promise, which explains why at Bernhardt`s
confirmation hearing in front of the Senate Energy Committee this morning
these two swamp things showed up. Now, they were actually Green Peace
activists protesting Bernhardt`s nomination. One of them managed to get a
prime spot right above Bernhardt`s right shoulder where she appeared during
an opening statement and remained for an entire hour, offering amusing
subtle reactions throughout his testimony.
The swamp thing performance was highly entertaining for lots of C-SPAN
users and Twitter users, but it looks like their message did not quite
reach the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We need to finish exactly what we came here to do, drain the swamp.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: In his explosive testimony to congress last month, Michael Cohen
explicitly called his long-time boss Donald Trump a cheat, and he told us
how the president cheats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: It was my experience that Mr. Trump
inflated his total assets when it served his purposes, such as trying to be
listed amongst the wealthiest
people in Forbes, and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: But lying to Forbes to make yourself look richer than you are is
sad and weird and kind of broken in a way, but it`s not illegal. But lying
to a bank or insurer about your assets, that`s a different story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: I`m giving to the committee today three years of Mr. Trump`s
personal financial statements from 2011, 2012 and 2013, which he gave to
Deutsche Bank to inquire about a loan to buy the Buffalo Bills.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Tonight, The Washington Post has some remarkable reporting on those
financial statements as well as statements from 2002 and 2004. The Post
showed them to an accounting professor who told the reporters he had never
seen a statement full of such egregious lies, I quote him here, “it`s
humorous. It`s a humorous financial statement.”
And he is not wrong. According to The Post, Trump claimed revenue from 24
lots at a Southern California golf course that don`t exist. He also added
800 nonexistent acres to the size of his vineyard in Virginia, and my
personal favorite, Trump added 10 imaginary stories to Trump Tower, falsely
claiming it was 68 stories tall. It`s not.
There are more examples, more lies, that could come back to haunt Trump.
The House Oversight Committee has requested 10 years of financial records
from Trump`s accountant. And New York`s Department of Financial Services
has subpoenaed records from Trump`s insurer Aon (ph) with the Post
reporting that a key component of the investigation was questions about
whether Trump had given Aon (ph) these documents in an effort to lower his
With that sort of financial chicanery appears to be a bit of a pattern in
Trump world. Among the charges that Trump`s former campaign chairman Paul
Manafort was found guilty of was lying to banks in order to generate cash.
Thanks to that crime, and others, Manafort is set to spend more than seven
years in jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, (D) NEW YORK: You want to tell people that
their concern and desire for clean air and clean water is elitist? That to
the kinds in the South Bronx, which are suffering from the highest rates of
childhood asthma in the country, tell that to the families in
Flint whose kids have – their blood is ascending in lead levels, their
brains are damaged for the rest of their lives, call them elitist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: There is a reason Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
specifically brought the Bronx this week while defending the Green New
Deal, and it`s not just because the Bronx is her constituency, it`s the
same reason we are doing a special event with her in the Bronx tomorrow on
the Green New Deal, and it`s because the particular threat that climate
change poses to that borough. Among many other things, it`s home to one of
the largest food distribution facilities in the world, threatened by storms
and rising tides, its home to some of the poorest people in New York City,
indeed in the country, and home to neighborhoods that are already dealing
with all kinds of environmental
All In corespondent Trymaine Lee explains.
TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Hunts Point Market is the
largest food distribution center on the planet. Every year, $5 billion
worth of meat, produce and fish pass through here feeding some 21 million
people in the region. The vast market spreads across 329 acres on the tip
of the South Bronx.
But this valuable stretch of shoreline is among the most vulnerable in the
city. Nothing protects it from being devastated by storm surge.
DANIEL KANE, PRESIDENT, TEAMSTERS LOCAL 202: We`re out here on a
peninsula. When Hurricane Sandy came, we got a little bit lucky. We
flooded a little bit, but not as bad as it could have been had the tidal
surge been different.
The regional economy could be washed away literally if the storm surge was
to breach. These markets are vulnerable to that and that would be
catastrophic to the area.
LEE: When you think about protecting the environment, you think about the
Deal, should workers be scared of those ideas?
KANE: Workers should be engaged in them. I think often they are used as
political footballs to divide groups. Well, if you`re for the environment,
you`re anti-business. And I don`t think that`s true. I know it`s not
true, because we worked here to try to do both.
Who wants polluted water? Nobody wants that.
LEE: The balance between jobs and a clean environment is an everyday
reality for many people in the South Bronx.
MYCHAL JOHNSON, CO-FOUNDER, SOUTH BRONX UNITED: These communities of color
that are on the front line on environmental justice are the ones of climate
change, which is one and the same, are the ones who suffer the most.
LEE: How much of that has to do with who we`re talking about, the racial
demographic, that we`re talking about poor black and brown people?
JOHNSON: Wow, I mean, we call it environmental racism. This community was
mostly a white neighborhood that was more economically affluent, this kind
of degradation of our environment would not be existing. You wouldn`t see
a heavy industrial uses in one area, all centralize in a poor community of
LEE: The South Bronx is one of the poorest congressional districts in the
nation. Diesel delivery trucks and industrial sites pollute the air.
DIOR ST. HILLARIE, FOUNDER, GREENFEEN ORGANIX: The South Bronx is actually
one of the districts that processes a large part of New York City`s waste.
We have over 30 percent that`s processed here, and so as a result of that,
we have poor, poor air quality, it`s environmental justice community, a
community that has waste inequity.
By being able to recruit people that come from these environmental justice
communities, they`ve been affected by the waste inequities, and our hope
and vision in the future is that we`re able to
now give them gainful employment, that they can be part and sustain
themselves and their families.
HAYES: And Trymaine Lee joins me now.
There are a lot of problems in the South Bronx related to sort of poverty
and infrastructure, but the air quality is one. I mean, it`s a place that
because of the Diesel trucks, because of the heavy industry, there`s a real
– there`s a real challenge for folks that live there.
LEE: When you think about environmental concerns, it`s easy to think about
the coast, the red
and blue-green algae, or fracking in the Midwest. But when you think about
these urban environments, you have the diesel fuel, you have proximity to
all these toxins and waste treatment plants, but you
also have kids who are dying every single day of asthma and other co-
And so when folks talk about it`s elitist, go to the South Bronx and talk
about elitist. You stand on 138th street – we stood there half of the
afternoon, and watched truck after truck go by. You don`t see that in
other communities, you simply don`t.
HAYES: Yeah, and this – and in that specific case, right, we`re talking
about a diesel engine
and you`re talking about a combustion engine, that`s part of what`s driving
climate change as well. I mean, part of the theory behind the Green New
Deal, right, is sort of two birds, one stone approach. What do you learn
when you went to Hunts Point Market, which is one of the most fascinating
points of this city?
LEE: You know, I was skeptical going in, because I`m saying they are
contributing to this, right. But when you talk to the union worker, you
talk to Daniel who is president of the Teamsters out there, he says it`s
simple, right. We just find ways to cut back on our degradation of the
community. We have to drive trucks through, but let`s find different
I think what`s interesting, also, is that when you talk about this cycle of
we create the greenhouse gases and the toxic soup, they had the
sledgehammer of hurricanes more often and heavier coming through, but then
those who are vulnerable before the storm are made more so after, because
when you have low property values, and folks who don`t own much anyway,
they`re less likely to reap any return.
But the middle class and the upper class, they benefit. You can expand
that market. You can the new roof on the house.
And so this cycle that we see, the loser always is the poor and working
HAYES: Yeah, one of the things, you know, and New York City is now talking
about a sort of
climate mitigation project, and, you know, someone I have talked to is
talking about about Lower
Manhattan, which is the most valuable real estate in the world, that`s
probably going to have a huge seawall protecting it. It`s unclear whether
the south Bronx is going to get the same thing.
LEE: Cinder blocks. You go there…
HAYES: It`s wild.
LEE: It`s amazing. And you see per usual who and what they are trying to
protect. When you go to the South Bronx, but that market alone, if that
goes under water, 12 hours later if Sandy had struck 12 hours later, you
would have 12, 13 feet of water flooding place.
HAYES: Trymaine Lee, that`s great reporting. That`s Hunt`s Point in New
York City, in my home borough of the Bronx, thank you so much for doing
LEE: Thank you.
HAYES: We`ll see you tomorrow, right?
LEE: Yes, sir.
HAYES: All right, that is All In for this evening. Tomorrow, as I said,
we`re going to be holding this special event. We`ve been working really
hard on, it`s in my home borough of the Bronx. It`s All In America: The
Green New Deal with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. We`ve got a bunch of people
coming. We`ve got some experts who are sort of the brains behind the Green
New Deal, and we`re going to try to get to the bottom of something that has
been really lost in the coverage of this extremely polarizing policy that
dominates Trump TV and a lot of conservative talk radio, which is what is
it? What is it? And what does it mean? So, don`t miss it tomorrow night
right here at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
“THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW” starts right now.
Good evening, Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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Copyright 2019 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are
protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced,
distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the
prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter
or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the