Racist robocall targets Florida Democrat. TRANSCRIPT: 10/23/2018, All In w Chris Hayes.

Amanda Terkel, Ryan Costello, Ro Khanna, Janai Nelson, Dale Ho

Date: October 23, 2018
Guest: Amanda Terkel, Ryan Costello, Ro Khanna, Janai Nelson, Dale Ho

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: Commander-in-Chief who speaks as if it never
mattered. To whom a nuclear arms race is a test of his macho and how much
money he has to put on the table. What will a man with that kind of
attitude do in a nuclear crisis? And that`s HARDBALL for now. “ALL IN”
with Chris Hayes starts right now.



sort of became old-fashioned. It`s called a nationalist.

HAYES: The President outs himself.

TRUMP: We`re not supposed to use that word. You know what I am, I`m a

HAYES: As the campaign of fear continues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Undefended open borders.

HAYES: Tonight, beyond the scare tactics with what`s working on the

them on November 6th that they have played their hand the wrong way.

HAYES: Plus, debate night in Georgia and the Republican candidate caught
on tape.

to concern us.

HAYES: And amid right-wing Caravan fever –

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Soros question mark.

HAYES: The terrorism investigation into a bomb left at the home of George
Soros when ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York I`m Chris Hayes. There are now just two
weeks until the midterms and Americans are engaged like they never have
been before. In Florida, voters camped out to be among the first to cast
early votes. In Nevada, they showed up at early voting sites in record-
breaking numbers. And in many counties in Texas, they cast more votes on
the first day of early voting for a Midterm Election than they did two
years ago for a presidential one.

And as a GOP works desperately to hang on to Congress, the man whose
beliefs carry arguably more weight within the party than nearly anyone is
trying to ride to the rescue. I speak of course of Las Vegas casino
magnate Sheldon Adelson whose company got a $1.2 billion windfall from the
Republican tax cut and who has the President of the United States working
as his personal lobbyist as he tries to build a new casino in Japan. He is
seeking to protect his investment.

Adelson and his wife Miriam adding $25 million to their Midterm campaign
spending bringing their total spending to boost Republicans in this cycle
alone to an astounding $113 million, a super PAC they support is even
running ads on this very network. Now, that money is being used to stoke
fear and resentment in an effort to inflame the Republican base and keep
the party that delivered Adelson the billion-dollar windfall firmly
entrenched in power.

Republicans are reveling in the effectiveness of their fear-mongering.
Barry Bennett former Trump campaign official describing the migrant caravan
that Donald Trump has been relentlessly focusing on and blatantly lying
about as a “political gift.” Get this, Bennet telling the Washington Post
” I wish they were carrying heroin.” The GOP strategy of stoking fear and
racial resentment among white voters in an effort to hold on to power comes
as two southern states Georgia and Florida may be on the verge of electing
their first ever black governors in Democrat Stacey Abrams and Andrew

In Georgia, as we`ll discuss later in the show, Secretary State and GOP
Gubernatorial Nominee Brian Kemp who has been accused of trying to suppress
black voter turnout and is in charge of the state`s voting system was
caught on tape voicing concerns that Abrams voters will exercise their
rights and vote. And in Florida, some voters received an incredibly racist
robocall from someone pretending to be Gillum. A warning, what you`re
about to hear is wildly offensive.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, hello there. I is the Negro Andrew Gillum, and
I`ll be asking you to make me Governor of this state of Florida. My esteem
opponent who don`t call me monkey is doing a lot of hollering about
expensive my plans for health care be.


HAYES: Appearing on MSNBC late this afternoon, Gillum said the people who
recorded the ad and are take – are taking their cues straight from top
Republicans including his opponent Ron DeSantis.


GILLUM: Leadership starts at the top. When Mr. DeSantis became his
party`s nominee, went on Fox News and told people now to monkey up the
state by electing me, a phrase that I`ve – it`s not commonly used so far
as I know, certainly not a month`s any of the circles that I`m in, and
quite frankly I think people are taking their cues there. What I think
they ought to do is quite frankly stop the dog whistles, stop the
bullhorns, the attacks on me, the false ads that are being running are all
intended to quite frankly further a stereotype about black men, illegal,
unethical, take things for free, monkey it up, jungle animals. I mean,
those kinds of things. It`s not hard to understand why neo-Nazis would
take an extension of that and then take it to the next level of extremity.


HAYES: With me now Huffington Post Washington Bureau Chief Amanda Terkel
who`s been reporting on the origins of that racist robocall today. Amanda,
what are they?

Nazi group or a guy who basically has a podcast and a Web site called the
road to power and they`re based in Idaho so they are not even in Florida.
But this guy Scott Rhodes is known for doing these sorts of robocalls in
other states too. He`s done it in Iowa, Idaho, California, Oregon,
Virginia, and some other places and he`s done it against Andrew Gillum
before. He did a similar one when Andrew Gillum was running for the
Democratic nomination and it`s incredibly racist.

I mean, you know, I couldn`t believe what I was hearing when I first heard
this robocall. You have sort of music in the background from Amos and Andy
which was a controversial popular but relied on racist stereotypes of T.V.
show, and you have the monkey sound, you have this exaggerated dialect, and
it just – you know, parts you didn`t play, parts about Jews trying to
elect Andrew Gillum, it`s just horrifying. And now you even have the
governor of Idaho coming out and saying we don`t want this in our state

HAYES: Ron DeSantis I`m sure has condemned this, right?

TERKEL: The DeSantis campaign did condemn it. They said we have nothing
to do with it. We don`t like this. But as you – as you played the audio
or the video earlier, Gilliam said and he was right that DeSantis the day
after the Florida primaries said that Gillum is basically monkeying up this
race and that is a very racist dog whistle. And so that comment was
alluded to in this racist robocall as well.

HAYES: They actually referenced that line.

TERKEL: Yes, they actually referenced that line in the robocall so it`s
being used by this neo-Nazi group.

HAYES: It strikes me – I mean, is it – how easy is it to hire up a

TERKEL: It`s really easy and a lot of – a lot of basically racists or
crazy people are people who just don`t want their identities known often do
this because it`s easier to be a little more anonymous. This group
actually did have a disclaimer at the end saying it was paid for by the
Road To Power which is this Web site in this podcast. So it was easier to
find out who did it. And this group is it`s pretty well known for doing

HAYES: It also comes in the context of just an incredibly racialized
campaign being run increasingly from the top on down.

TERKEL: Oh absolutely. I mean, obviously with Trump you have what he`s
been saying lately about the caravan and immigration and I mean it`s not
just lately but it`s been ramping up in recent weeks because that`s what
happens when you have a close election and you don`t like the issues that
people say they care about, things like health care. Those issues aren`t
great so Trump is fear-mongering about the caravan and other things like
that. But throughout this campaign, you`re seeing racist attacks across
the country especially against candidates of color. Andrew Gillum has
faced other things, memes about his race, a congressman said he`s Andrew
Killum because he said he was soft on crime so this is happening

HAYES: All right, Amanda Terkel, thank you very much for being with me.
For more the Midterms, I`m joined by two members of the House of
Representatives, Democrat Ro Khanna who is up for re-election in California
17th District in two weeks and Republican Ryan Costello of Pennsylvania
who`s getting the hell out of there retiring at the end of his term. So I
want to – well, let me start with you actually. If I say to you what is
this election about in two weeks, what`s your answer?

REP. RO KHANNA (D), CALIFORNIA: It`s about a check on executive power. We
need a check on Donald Trump. And it`s about the economy. We need people
who are working Americans to do better. They haven`t been gotten anything
under Donald Trump.

HAYES: How about – what`s your answer that?

REP. RYAN COSTELLO (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Are we better off than we were two
years ago? Is the country moving in the right direction from a job
creation and an economic growth perspective? And are we willing to give
Republicans a continued chance to govern out of the House notwithstanding
the fact that there are frustrations with the way that the President

HAYES: Right. So that`s a perfectly decent but there is – I can`t find a
30-second ad being run on those issues. I mean, honestly, it is – it
seems to me an incredible condemnation of the Republican record that every
ad is about – it`s about the caravan, it`s about MS-13, it`s about the
Democrats are going to let the mob get after you and there`s precious
little you can find on anything having to do with the record of Republican.

COSTELLO: Look, I think that it`s for whatever reason, the strategic
decisions being made are we need to get our base out when from my
perspective is it would seem to me that the base in large measure should be
happy with the types of policies that the president has been espousing and
in the districts that we need to keep suburban Minneapolis, suburban
California, we should be layering on top of that a more centrist message.

KHANNA: The reality is most Americans aren`t happy and that`s why the
President is doing this. It`s out of weakness. And the President had a
winning hand. If he really thought that Americans were doing better, he`d
run on that, but he`s stuck in the 40 percent in his polls and so he`s –
this is desperation. He`s clinging to power. I think it`s going to
backfire because most Republicans are reasonable like Ryan. I mean, they
actually believe in evidence, the reason, you can actually debate with
Ryan, we do bills, we disagree. That`s what most people believe in. This
is –

COSTELLO: It goes to say that (INAUDIBLE) win the debate. But also the
point –

HAYES: You two are both saying the same thing which I think is wrong. You
guys are both saying that – you guys are both saying that the strategic
decision that`s been made is incorrect. The strategic decision which we
all agree on which is clear is get the base riled up with really nasty
stuff. I mean, really, honestly. The way – you know, lying about there
are terrorist infiltrating the caravan completely baseless stuff. They
think that will work. You both don`t think it does but what if it does?
What does it say?

COSTELLO: But the caveat here is that I believe the President in large
measure is campaigning for the United States Senate not for House races.
And if you look in North Dakota, in Indiana, in Missouri and a few others,
Montana, they love them there or at least it`s above 50 percent.

HAYES: But what does that say? What does that say to you? They love the
fact that he`s lying and saying that there are Middle Eastern terrorist –

COSTELLO: Well, the voters of those states get to do – choose what they -
- what they support and what they don`t but if – look, in my district,
having the President in to campaign for me this year if I were running
would not be a good recipe.

HAYES: Would be bad. Yes, right.

KHANNA: And his tactics are not original. I mean, people lying to hold on
to power is as old as politics itself.

HAYES: Yes, that`s true.

KHANNA: And you know, at some point you have to believe in the common
sense and decency of Americans. Eventually, they`ll get it right. And
what we can`t do is get distracted. Look, remember he`s at 45 percent.
The majority of Americans don`t believe in his tactics.

HAYES: What I thought was such a tell was this ridiculous. First of all,
the lies have been sort of like some have been really nasty, some have been
hilarious, like the idea that there`s riots happening in California that
just like no one`s seen. Like oh yes, there`s – like the President of the
United States just casually being like get to the riots in California. You
know it obviously. But I thought the rolling out a fictitious middle-class
tax cut was such a tell, right? Because what that says to me is you don`t
trust the thing you passed. You guys passed it. You walked the plank for
it. You voted for that bill.

COSTELLO: I voted. We were on last week. We had a good conversation
about that.

HAYES: Right. So you voted that bill. What does it say to you that he
comes and he invents a new middle-class tax cut which is not happening
which is totally fictitious two weeks before Election Day because he
clearly thinks the first one didn`t work?

COSTELLO: I don`t know what to make of a fictitious tax cut. I can`t help
you on that one.

KHANNA: Well, I mean, he knows.

COSTELLO: Will you vote the fictitious tax cut?

KHANNA: Well, if he had – if he had a tax initially to help working
families, that`s what a lot of us wanted. We wanted the earned income
credit to be expanded. That`s what Kamala Harris has proposed but the
President knows he didn`t do that. And he did attached it for his donors,
now that it`s election time he thinks he can pull the wall over folks eyes
and it`s not going to work.

HAYES: There`s another – there`s another theme that`s been emerging here.
This is the pre-existing condition issue. I want to play – Rick Scott is
now the latest – Republicans is very much on the defensive about pre-
existing conditions largely because of a lawsuit that would end them if it
was successful and also the vote on ObamaCare repeal. This is what Rick
Scott had to say. Take a listen.

Yes, sorry this is Rick Scott as he say, he support forcing insurance
companies to cover pre-existing conditions. Just supposed to be there.
This has been a theme Republicans trying to get right with the American
people on this even when they`ve supported things that would change
protection for a pre-existing condition.

COSTELLO: Correct. Well, correct in the sense that that`s the campaign
issue. I think – I voted against the health care bill on the floor. The
pre-existing conditions coverage I think at this point in time, nobody can
be against. I think that the question that`s being litigated is whether
those who voted to allow a state to waive that in certain circumstances if
there was a state stability fund set up in order to provide the alternative
cover. We`re going to talk about health care policy, we`re going to get
end up getting in the weeds.

HAYES: Right.

COSTELLO: That`s what will ultimately get litigated, very difficult to
litigate health care policy and 30-second political commercials.

KHANNA: But Chris, this is what Democrats need to run on. Everyone –

HAYES: They are.

KHANNA: And we shouldn`t get distracted with the – with the sidetrack
that Trump is trying to do. He knows health care is a losing issue for
him. He knows people`s deductibles have gone up, premiums have gone going
up, they aren`t getting coverage and we`re winning on the health care

HAYES: Let me – let me bring up one more issue that no one is running on
but might be one of the most important in the world just because I have you
both here. There are millions of people in Yemen who are facing the worst
humanitarian crisis in the world. We`re talking about millions of children
who are at risk of starvation because of the U.S. and Saudi-led war in
Yemen. Mohammed bin Salman who just apparently ordered the murder of the
journalist has also been running this. You have a bill to stop U.S.
support for Yemen. Tell me about it.

KHANNA: Well, Chris, I appreciate your bringing it up. You`re one the
only mainstream journalists covering the issue. Let me just put it in
perspective. There are 12 million Yemenis who faced the possibility of
starvation. 800,000 people died in Rwanda, 100,000 died in Bosnia, the
world`s worst famine in West Bengal over the last 100 years was 3 million.
Here you have 12 million and the United States is supporting the Saudis in
bombing those civilians and not allowing humanitarian aid. Regardless of
the politics we should demand a cessation to the violence and let aid get
in there.

HAYES: This doesn`t strike me as particularly partisan issue. Is that
something that you could see yourself supporting other Republicans?

COSTELLO: Well, I could and I will just add to that. There are a number
of hot spots around the globe that because of the way that campaigns are
run now we don`t focus on and we don`t have the ability to lean in on them
and inform our constituents on the types of things that we`re working on so
I applaud your leadership.

KHANNA: And I like Ryan. Look, this is how politics used to be. Ryan and
I disagree but he believes in evidence, facts, and it`s a shame that the
President is distorting the campaign so you don`t have this –

HAYES: Well, the President said he`s willing to leave punishment of the
Saudi situation up to Congress. It strikes me that the lame-duck session,
I think there`s probably – you know, lame-duck session, I think he can get
235, 240 votes to end the U.S.-backed war in Yemen. I hope so.
Representatives Ro Khanna and Ryan Costello, thank you both for being with
me. Let`s do it again. It was fun. All right, next, it`s debate night in
Georgia. We`ll show you what happened when Stacey Abrams and Brian Kemp go
head-to-head in two minutes.



Kemp, more people have lost the right to vote in the State of Georgia.
They`ve been purged, they`ve been suppressed, and they`ve been scared.
This is a man who had someone arrested for helping her blind father cast a
ballot. He raided the offices of organizations to stop them from
registering voters. That type of voter suppression feeds the narrative
because voter suppression isn`t only about blocking the vote, it`s also
about creating an atmosphere of fear, making people worry that their votes
won`t count.


HAYES: Tonight in Georgia, an election that is effectively deadlocked.
Stacey Abrams, the Democrat you saw there running to become the first
African-American female governor in American history faced off in a debate
with Republican Secretary of State Brian Kemp. Abrams is currently suing
Kemp for suppressing votes in the election that he is both running in and
overseeing. Kemp for his part is well aware that African-American and
minority turnout is a problem for him. He voiced his concerns over Abrams
voters outreach to donors at an event last week. A recording of that event
was given to Rolling Stone Reporter Jamil Smith who posted it online hours
before tonight`s debate.


KEMP: As worried as we were going into the start of early voting, with the
literally tens of millions of dollars that they are putting behind the get
out and vote efforts for their base, a lot of that was absentee ballot
requests they had just an unprecedented number of that works is something
that continues to concern us especially if everybody uses and exercises
their right to vote which they absolutely can. And mails those ballots in,
we got to have heavy turnout to offset that.


HAYES: Kemp`s campaign today confirmed he was at the event and leave no
comment on the remarks. Tonight, the issue of election integrity was
central to the debate.


KEMP: As you know in a recent video you called on illegals to vote for you
in this election. I was actually shocked I had to watch that video twice.
So my question is why are you encouraging people to break the law for you
in this election?

ABRAMS: Mr. Kemp, you are very aware that I know the laws of Georgia when
it comes to voting. In fact, I am one of the foremost experts in the state
on expansion of voting rights and I have never in my life asked for anyone
who is not legally eligible to vote to be able to cast a ballot. What I`ve
asked for is that you allow those who are legally eligible to vote to allow
them to cast their ballots. And in fact, we took you to court in 2016 and
a federal judge said that you illegally canceled 34,000 registrations. You
use the exact same system, the exact match system that is under dispute
right now.


HAYES: To talk more about those race, I`m joined by Janai Nelson Associate
Director and Counsel to NAACP Legal Defense Fund and Dale Ho Director of
the ACLU`s Voting Rights Project. What`s – so there`s a policy thing
happening here in Georgia. There`s a – there`s a fascinating kind of
personal story here which is that like these two people have been facing
off on this issue way before this election happened.

That`s right.

HAYES: Right?

NELSON: That`s right. It`s been a really interesting dance leading up to
this election where you have the person who`s been in charge of elections
for years now being a candidate and reaping the benefits of all of the
manipulation and all of the voter suppression that he`s engaged in four
years. Since 2012 he`s been responsible, Brian Kemp, for one point four
million registration cancellations. And most recently we found out that
there were voter purges just last year after he announced his candidacy and
we have voters who were removed from the rolls. He`s effectively choosing
the people who are able to participate in a select and choosing the voters
who may ultimately elect him or his opponent into the gubernatorial office.

HAYES: What does the law say about what you can and can`t get away with?
I mean, the finessing thing about voting rights right in the history of the
country is that they`re constantly since the period after reconstruction
they`re shot through with bad faith right so all of the efforts to suppress
the vote particularly the south after reconstruction are facially race-
neutral right, like oh, take a literacy test, like oh we`re going to close
a polling place here. They knew what they were doing right?

So the question now becomes like what can you do and not do if you say oh
we`re going to purge a million people, you can get away with that purge,
four million people, like what is the standard?

Kemp has done is illegal. We`re challenging a number of his practices.
The danger here is that it takes time to litigate these cases, right? And
if we can`t get relief in the courts before the election, it`s too late.
There`s no way to redo the election and get people`s voting rights back
before November.

HAYES: Right. So the remedy there is you know, one gets to say like get
the other person elected.

HO: Right.

NELSON: But there`s a reason that Georgia was once covered by Section Five
of the Voting Rights Act that we know the Supreme Court basically
eviscerated in 2013 in the Shelby County versus Holder decision. And the
reason that that law was so effective and in place was because of places
like Georgia that routinely engages in voter suppression. And therefore,
were required to present any change like the purging of 100,000 voters or
the changing of polling sites or the cancellation of registrations. They
had to present those changes to the federal government for clearance.

HAYES: Is it – just to be clear, that`s all stuff that would have to go
through preclearance?

NELSON: That`s right.

HAYES: If you purge voters?

NELSON: Yes. If you change the rules and you – if you`re just doing
routine voter list maintenance, that`s one thing, but if you are changing
the rules that effect who gets to stay on the rolls and who doesn`t, that`s
a change. If you are engaged in the cancellation of registrations based on
a new rule that you`ve put into place then you would need to seek some sort
of preclearance.

HO: There are still opportunities to get emergency relief. Lawyers from
the ACLU and the ACLU of Georgia, the Legal Director of the ACLU of Georgia
Sean Young was in court today arguing that what Georgia is doing throwing
away absentee ballots, you heard Brian Kemp complain that there are too
many people casting absentee ballots, that`s like the head of the IRS
complaining they`re too many people I don`t know, paying their taxes. But
we were in court today on an emergency motion to stop the state from
throwing away absentee ballots without first verifying that those ballots
were in fact legitimately cast by voters.

HAYES: There`s also the question about this sort of conflict of interest
that hangs over all this and one of the moments in the debate tonight he
said he had no plans if there were a recount, he had no plans to recuse
himself from a recount which just I think strikes everyone as kind of a
little weird like you`re going to oversee the recount?

NELSON: Yes. I mean if, Kris Kobach is besting you in this area then
you`ve got a problem. I mean, he really should commit ahead of the
election to assure voters to instill some sense of security and integrity
in the process. To say if there is a recount, I will recuse myself.
Frankly, we demanded the Legal Defense Fund sent a letter last week
demanding that he step away voluntarily from supervising the elections. It
doesn`t mean he has to necessarily abdicate his office entirely, but in
terms of his responsibilities concerning the Georgia elections, the idea
that he is still in charge of that process is absurd in any other
circumstance. We would see this as a clear conflict of interest and an
invitation for self-dealing.

HAYES: Is Georgia – I mean, Kansas, obviously Kris Kobach is notorious.
I wonder is Georgia out of line with other states or is it just the fact
that Brian Kemp is running that has put the spotlight on him?

HO: Brian Kemp has I think pretty bad history when it comes to suppressing
votes. What I – what I was – when I was asked about Brian Kemp before,
you know, is he you know, doing something new, what I`d say is he`s not
doing something new but he`s using every old trick in the book and that`s
what`s kind of unique about him. He doesn`t just champion sort of one
restriction on voting the way Kris Kobach for instance with his proof of
citizenship law, Brian Kemp has got a strict voter I.D. law.

He`s got purges for not voting, something that the Supreme Court,
unfortunately, upheld in a case coming out of Ohio the other year. He has
this exact match program which Stacey Abrams challenged and that was
apparently back online and then now he`s got this system of rejecting
absentee ballots based on someone`s eyeball test of whether or not the
signature appears to match someone`s voter registration.

HAYES: That`s what they`re using right now?

HO: That`s what we were in court today challenging. Several hundred
ballots have already been rejected or ballot requests have been rejected in
Florida – in Georgia, I`m sorry. The number is expected to go up as we
get closer to Election Day based on just an eyeball test that someone`s
signature on their absentee ballot or their ballot request doesn`t look
like the voter registration form. All we`re asking for is that those
voters get notified and have a chance to say don`t throw my ballot away,
that was me.

HAYES: That seems like a fair pass. Janai Nelson and Dale Ho, thank you
for joining us.

NELSON: Thank you.

HAYES: Ahead, following countless right-wing conspiracy theories targeting
philanthropist George Soros. This week someone appeared to hand-deliver a
pipe bomb to his home. The details next.


HAYES: In the world of the American right and even the national right,
billionaire philanthropist George Soros is the secret puppet master of
world affairs.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Soros has given about $10 million to groups opposed to
the policies of Israel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not want a second referendum, Mr. Soros.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not the people`s vote, it`s the George Soros vote
is how I would put it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is such a person in the United States, Mr. Soros
who interferes in affairs all over the world.

TRUMP: Did you ever see their signs resist? They say what are you going
to resist, I don`t know. They`ll go to a person holding a sign who gets
paid by Soros or somebody, right. That`s what happens.

ANNOUNCER: Left wing mobs paid to riot in the streets.

Billionaire George Soros bankrolls the resistance and Dan Fian (ph). Fian
(ph) is employed by a Soros funded liberal outfit in D.C. His campaign
propped up by out of state super PACs backed by Soros`s millions.


HAYES: Trump says Soros and other paid for the Kavanaugh protesters.
Congressman Matt Gates claimed cash payments to the migrant caravan
suggesting Soros was behind it.

And in the midst of this rhetoric, which constant on the right, a bomb was
found in the mailbox of George Soros`s suburban New York yesterday. It was
detonated by bomb squad technicians. Soros was not home at the time.

An employee had opened the suspicious package and alerted authorities. The
FBI joint terrorism task force and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and
Firearms are now investigating.

Angelo Carusone is the president of Media Matters. And Angelo, welcome.

So, let me start with this. I mean, let me say this, it is the case that
George Soros does fund lots of causes on the sort of progressive and the
center left. At one time I think he made a donation to Media Matters years
ago. He funds lots of different organizations.

There`s a distinction between him being a funder and the caricature and
image of him in the right wing media.

ANGELO CARUSONE, MEDIA MATTERS: Yeah, but I mean, it`s not what he does
makes him a target of this. And obviously the fact that he`s putting so
much money in makes him a
target. But there`s nothing inherent about him except for the fact that he
has a background, right, that
he`s both Jewish, so it fits into a lot of anti-Semitic narratives that
they can tie into. And he operates on a global scale, right, so they can
weave in a conspiratorial nature.

But if George Soros wasn`t doing what he was doing or didn`t exist, they
would have another individual that they would prop up as their centralizing
figure. Before Soros, it was the Rothchilds. I mean, still see the
Rothchilds mentioned in the context of George Soros.

So part of this is to understand how Soros sort of fits into the larger
right-wing narrative and then how that leads into, say, the bomb being
delivered to his house.

HAYES: Yeah, I mean, it`s also an international narrative, as you saw from

I mean, in Hungary, his native Hungary, there`s a Stop Soros law against
NGOs that help migrants that is proposed by the ultra right-wing Viktor
Orban government in Hungary.

CARUSONE: Yes. And the one thing that I point out internationally is that
the countries where – that have the most explicit hostility toward Mr.
Soros or his foundations and their activities send to be either
authoritarian or moving into authoritarian territory, because a lot of work
that he does is fund
and support democratic movements, right, open societies, societies in which
there are transparency, in which there`s accountability on the government`s
part to its people, and so there`s a natural tension there because his
activities directly undermine or run against either explicit authoritarian
regimes or the
creep in movement toward authoritarianism.

HAYES: And, in fact, there`s a sort of tragic irony here. This is someone
who has sort of experienced childhood experience of surviving the
holocaust, family being murdered and escaping has
led him to fund and invest in sort of liberal democracy and institutions
that support it at a time when there`s a movement both in the United States
and Hungary and elsewhere in Europe against it.

CARUSONE: That`s correct. And I think that the one thing that they`ve
done really effectively, and it sort of makes it both really sad and kind
of sick, but it also is a testament to the agenda setting and persuasive
power that the right-wing echo chamber, not just here but globally, can use
is they can
actually turn somebody with his background who as a child in the Nazi
regime and portray him as a
Nazi, as a Nazi collaborator.

And that`s actually a really important thing that they do, because one of
the ways – they
don`t just say he`s supporting all these things. That`s not the story that
the right-wing tells their audiences. That`s not what makes somebody want
to go and bring a pipe bomb or governments to crack down on him, what they
do is say he is sporting all these things because he has horrible ends.
They actually portray him as the ultimate authoritarian figure. And that
is a hallmark of the societies, right, is to have to have a sort of vague
fear of violence or threats against you, it`s all manufactured, and you
sort of create a new villain that you turn your people against, and that is
largely how Soros kind of fits in here.

He is the perfect straw man for so much of the worst impulses of
authoritarian movements and right-wing movements.

HAYES: Yeah, our own Ben Collins who monitors this kind of thing posted a
screen shot of our “the Donald” where you`ve got just in the last week
multiple people calling for him to be killed, violence against him.

I should read the statement from the Open Society Foundation, the politics
of hate that dominates our discourse today in the U.S. and so many
countries around the world breed extremism and violence. In this climate
of fear, falsehoods and rising authoritarianism just voicing your views can
draw death threats. George Soros deplores violence of any kind and urges
politicians across the political spectrum to tone down the rhetoric.”

I am a little surprised that an apparent assassination attempt on George
Soros, or a bomb at his house, hasn`t been a bigger issue.

CARUSONE: I am surprised by that, but I`m not surprised that – a little
surprised. I thought for sure this would maybe sort of shock the
mainstream media into thinking about it differently. A lot of times when
they cover it, they cover it in ways that actually reinforce right wing
myths about him or false equivalencies, right. They portray him as, oh,
he`s just the liberal analog to the Koch brothers, which is entirely

And that`s how they kind of dismiss it. They only look at it through a
very narrow, partisan political lens. And they ignore both the global
context as well as the culture context that`s at play here. And the fact
that the attacks against him are representative of the fact that part of
the right-wing narrative is – and the violence that it leads to is a
feature, not a bug, it`s not an anomaly.

HAYES: Angelo Carusone, thank you very much.

Still ahead, the inevitable Republican bait and switch of campaign style
fear mongering that disappears right after the election.

Plus, presidential math in tonight`s Thing One, Thing Two next.


HAYES: Thing One tonight, when it comes to Trump and Saudi Arabia, the
policy is the customer is always right which is why President Trump seems
to be overcompensating lately when it
comes to talking up the number of jobs that are supposedly going to be
created by these arms deals that we`ve got.

Now, the original deal was supposedly going to create 40,000 jobs, then
Trump made it bigger.


TRUMP: I worked very hard to get the order for the military. It`s $110
billion. I believe it`s the largest order ever made. It`s 450,000 jobs.


HAYES: OK. Now two things here, the $110 billion number itself we know to
be an exaggeration. But 450,000 jobs? Now that is a lot of jobs, although
I think it might sound a little better if you rounded up a bit.


TRUMP: They have a tremendous order, $110 billion. Every country in the
world wanted a piece of that order. I mean, it`s 500,000 jobs.


HAYES: 500,000 jobs, or up to 500,000 jobs.

Nothing has changed about the deal, of course, but in two days we somehow
went up 50,000 more jobs.


TRUMP: We have $450 billion worth of things ordered for a very rich
country, Saudi Arabia, 600,000 jobs, maybe more than that.


HYAES: 600,000. Do I hear 600,000? And now it`s a $450 billion deal.
Every time this guy talks, the numbers go up.


TRUMP: This is equipment and various things ordered from Saudi Arabia,
$450 million. I think it`s over a million jobs.



This is kind of not even funny anymore.


TRUMP: I think that`s over a million jobs, a million to over a million.


HAYES: OK, yes, yeah. A million to over a million jobs, sure.

You ever notice that there is – if there is a sentence with a number in
it, Trump cannot complete that sentence without raising the number. That`s
Thing Two, or maybe three, or maybe even more than – more than that in 60



HAYES: Donald Trump has been inflating numbers as long as anyone has been
paying tension to him, from his net worth, to his crowd sizes, to the jobs
created by Saudi arms deals.

But to the close observer, the behavior seems to be more pathological. It
seems that with the exception of golf scores and official weight, whenever
Trump see as number he needs to make it bigger.


TRUMP: We`ve created almost 500,000, soon it`s going to be 600,000,
manufacturing jobs.

We had vets that used to wait in line for seven days, 20 days, 30 days.
I`ve heard up to 38 days.

Two days, five days, 20 days, 30 days, 50 days.

To build a highway in this country would take 17, 18, 20 and even 21 years.

You could have lost 30, 40, 50 million people.

401(k)s are up 30, 40 and in some cases much higher than that percent.

What they have 90, they have 92 and they have 93 percent.

They have massive tariffs on us, 50 percent, in one case 100 percent, in
some cases more than that.



HAYES: So two world leaders spoke out today about the murder of journalist
Jamal Khashoggi by Saudi operatives with very differing results. Turkish
President Recep Erdogan who himself, we should note, has a terrible record
of press freedom, called Khashoggi`s death inside a Saudi consulate in
Istanbul, quote, a vicious murder. Adding, quote, “whitewashing such
barbarity will, of course, injure and wound the conscious of all humanity.”

And to hammer that point home, Turkey leaked security footage of a man they
say wore Khashoggi`s clothes around Istanbul in order to make it look the
Washington Post columnist was still alive.

Now, Saudi Crown Prince Mohamed bin Salman seemed undeterred by this,
walking into an investment conference in Riyadh to a standing ovation and
later taking selfies with attendees.

Not to mention, photos released by the Saudi press agency members of the
royal family meeting with the son of the man the Saudi officials murdered.

Erdogan wasn`t the only one with something to say today. After repeatedly
bending over backwards to find excuses for the Saudis, Donald Trump finally
seemed upset, but maybe not for the reason you`d think.


TRUMP: They had a very bad original concept. It was carried out poorly
and the cover-up was one of the worst in the history of cover-ups. It`s
very simple. Bad deal, should have never been thought of.


HAYES: Speaking later in the day, the president clarified that, yes, the
brutal murder itself was bad, not just the cover-up, before adding, yet
again, that the crown prince, quote, “strongly denied” being involved.


HAYES: In the last few weeks before the 2014 elections, the mid-term
conversation was dominated by one subject: Ebola It seems absurd, but it


TRUMP: A lot of people are fleeing West Africa and they`re coming here
because they want to get away from Ebola Now, how many of those people
have Ebola? And it`s going to be a problem. And I cannot understand why
we`re allowing so many people. We should end flights coming from West
Africa and Liberia.


HAYES: Republicans like Scott Brown who was attempting to get into the
Senate stoked fears that terrorists could use Ebola as a sort of biological


that people aren`t going to be walking through here who have those types of
diseases and/or other types of intent, criminal or terrorist, and yet we do
nothing to secure our border.


HAYES: Just think for a second about that, that you would go and get Ebola
and then come over and sneak across the border as a biological attack.

And yet after the midterms, coverage of Ebola disappeared, because it was
never a real issue here for Republicans, and the right-wing outreach
machine is now gearing up again, this time over the so-called caravan just
in time for the mid-term elections.

Here to help me understand why this artificial conservative outreach can
happen, Washington Post columnist and MSNBC contributor Jennifer Rubin, GOP
strategist Rick Wilson, and Christina Greer, associate professor of
political scientist at Fordham University.

And Christina, I`ll start with you. One thing we know, in study after
study is that when you make people feel scared or under threat or threat of
invasion, their politics get more conservative. It`s like a tried and
true, like, everyone – liberals, conservatives, everyone.

And it just seems so obvious what is being done here. They did with Ebola,
and they`re
just directing attention to it now.

CHRISTINA GREER, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: Well, we have to look at the past two
years of this particular administration. Trump has not promised his base
the signature piece of legislation, which is this wall.

HAYES: Yeah.

GREER: And so to deflect from that, right – and he keeps talking about
the economy. It`s Obama`s economy. He is not talking about the tax breaks
because we know that there is not going to be any money for regular people,
it`s just going to be for his friends. So, he is talking now about all
caravan and all these people coming. They`re 1,100 miles away, right.

And the reason why the caravan is in place is because you, sir, have closed
our borders and put children in cages. And so the problem is we have one
party, the Democrats, who see this as essentially a humanitarian disaster.
We have the Republicans, oftentimes who don`t even see these children and
these families as human, and they`re saying you know these are the people
who are going to come to our summer homes when we`re not there and sets up
shop and take over.

HAYES: Let me read the quote that you`re referencing. This is an
interview, Carol Shields, 75, a Republican in northern Minnesota said she
was afraid that migrant gangs could take over people`s summer lake homes in
the state of Minnesota. “What`s to stop them, said Shields, a retired
accountant. We have a lot of people who live on the lakes in summer and
some place else. When they come back in the spring, their house will be

I don`t think that will happen.

Jennifer, part of it, too, is just the shamelessness. Like they don`t care
– no one cares. This is all just a point and look situation, and the
president realizes – and I think Bill Shine, who is there helping him –
realizes he can direct the media`s attention to what he wants it directed

JENNIFER RUBIN, WASHINGTON POST: That`s right. The lies come faster, and
they get bigger and weirder. Just like he said there was a tax cut coming
the following week after he appeared with Ted Cruz. This is nonsense.
This is lies.

And you point to the nub of the problem and that is that there is a
universe of people who live
within this bubble, whether it`s talk radio, whether it`s Fox News, whether
it`s blogs, whether it`s Breitbart, and that`s all they hear. And they`re
more than willing to believe whatever told to them. They exercise no
independent judgment.

And this White House – listen, all presidents shade the truth. They
exaggerate. They leave things out. But this is really the first president
who makes things up out of whole cloth.

HAYES: Not all presidents just invent riots in California.

And Rick, part of – I think part of the awareness that happened, right, in
the Republican primary was this awareness among Republican politicians and
operatives that a huge part of their base were ingesting brain poison every
day, and that they had no – they couldn`t interrupt the circuitry to get
in front of them and now that`s become a kind of national party phenomenon.

RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Sure. The self-reinforcing cycle of,
you know, what Fox is feeding these guys every day. You know, it always
follows – like you covered earlier, the arc of exaggeration always gets
more and more lurid every day.


WILSON: So one day it`s going to be 500 refugees marching north. By the
end of the week, it`s going to be the entire bin Laden family coming here
with knives in their teeth to kill every American. The drama and the
exaggeration and the constant drum-beating on this thing, it requires that
they constantly stoke that fear center with more and more vivid imagery,
and more and more terrifying claims.

This is an old story. We`ve seen this before how this plays out over and
over again. And it gets Trump`s nativist base very, very excited every
day. And they look at these people as less than human, and this is part of
Trump coming out of the closet on being a full-on nationalist. And let`s
not exaggerate the impact of that on these people. They believe that those
folks are less than human, and they believe that they don`t deserve asylum.
They believe that the kids in cages was a net benefit for this country.

HAYES: Yeah, I mean, there is interviews with people saying, like, why
can`t we just shoot
them, which…

GREER: And if they didn`t want their children taken away if them, they
shouldn`t have come.

WILSON: Yeah, it`s crazy.

HAYES: There`s also – what`s also bizarre about this is like there is
this parallel universe happening in the campaign trail where if you go to
every Democratic race, they`re like we`ll protect your health care. Like,
it is so striking. I go to – you look at ad after ad after ad. And you
know New York 19 is a great example here, outside New York where it`s like
the Republicans is like big city rapper Antonio Delgado. And Antonio
Delgado is like preexisting conditions are important to me. And those are
literally the two campaigns that are being run right now.

GREER: Right. Well, I mean, look at Stacey Abrams in Georgia, right, and
you have got Brian Kemp who is slow motion stealing an election. She is
talking about health care, and he is just making up whoppers.

And I think part of the frustration that so many Democrats feel – because
right now the Republicans are using this buzzword of civility, right, and
the Democrats aren`t being civil. And we`re comparing like apples to
steak, right. Democrats yelling at you while you`re eating in your ethnic
restaurants saying shame on you for taking away our health care is not the
same as pipe bombs and Tiki torches and Republicans actually wholesale
threatening children, women, you know, and marginalized communities.

HAYES: There is also, Jennifer the fact that they told – they sold
themselves on the tax cut. They pulled the wool over their own eyes. They
thought it was going to sell.

RUBIN: Yes. And they did the same with repealing Obamacare. They thought
that was going to sell too.

Imagine, imagine that taking away health care and giving tax breaks to rich
people is not
popular with the American people.

But to go back to something Rick said, it`s not enough to have Hispanic
people marching 1,100 miles from the border. They have to say that there
are Middle Eastern people, meaning terrorism.

HAYES: Yeah, exactly. Gilding the lily.

RUBIN: Yes. So you just have to get more and more preposterous every day.

HAYES: Rick?

WILSON: So, yeah. By the end of it, the exaggerations always reach the
most ludicrous end point. And I think the two campaigns, though, it`s a
very telling thing. The Democrats, for once, rarely, you know, they are
using the right messaging that actually is moving voters underneath this
whole thing. The Republicans` campaign has become a base-only operation.
Unless they have an area where they can turn up the base at 100 percent,
they`re not going to do well.

HAYES: No. There is no…

WILSON: That`s why they`re doing this stuff that only speaks to the…

HAYES: There is no persuasion message right now.

Jennifer Rubin, Rick Wilson and Christina Greer, thanks for your time.

This is your Tuesday reminder. We have a new episode of our podcast up,
and it`s about the
growing popularity of Medicare for all and crucially what it would actually
take, details wise, to make that happen.

This week`s guest, Abdul El-Sayed, his fascinating insight into the topic.
Find it wherever you get your podcasts.

That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts now.


Copyright 2018 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are
protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced,
distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the
prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter
or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the