Hurricane Michael strikes Florida. TRANSCRIPT: 10/10/2018, All In w Chris Hayes.

Mark Demaria, Craig Fugate, Michelle Goldberg, David Jolly, Olivia Nuzzi, Jonathan Cohn, Irwin Redlener, Hayes Brown

Date: October 10, 2018
Guest: Mark Demaria, Craig Fugate, Michelle Goldberg, David Jolly, Olivia
Nuzzi, Jonathan Cohn, Irwin Redlener, Hayes Brown


starts now.

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes. An
unexpectedly powerful storm Hurricane Michael which savaged the Florida
Panhandle just shy of a Category Five is now quickly moving through
Southwest Georgia as a Category Two storm. Even now hours after landfall,
it is the strongest storm to hit Georgia in 120 years.

Also, tonight is the President campaigns right now in the state of
Pennsylvania. There is new push back on the wild claims being made by the
president and his party as they try and retain power. And there are new
questions about the Washington Post contributor who disappeared in the
Saudi consulate. We`ll get to all that more ahead, but first hurricane
Michael which made landfall this afternoon near Mexico Beach Florida just
20 miles southeast of Panama City is a Category Four hurricane with winds
that reach 155 miles per hour. Again, just two miles per hour short of a
category five.

Those winds the fourth most powerful ever for a storm hitting the
continental U.S. The Hurricanes the strongest to cross the Florida
Panhandle even recorded history. The fast-moving storm carved a dangerous
path of destruction, ripped roofs off homes, downed trees, and has left
388,000 people without power. There is one confirmed death thus far. More
than 300,000 people were under evacuation orders and at least 6,000 made it
to area shelters according to the Red Cross.

The National Hurricane Center warned of life-threatening storm surges
throughout the day and vast swaths of the Florida coast are still
threatened with storm surges of up to 20 feet. Flash flood warnings are in
effect for parts of Georgia and Alabama. The water level set records in
Apalachicola, Florida with a storm surge of over seven feet. Localities
across the Florida Panhandle are only beginning to assess the damage by
both flooding and high winds.

Michael is now the sixth major hurricane in just two seasons to hit the
U.S. where its citizens of Puerto Rico and arrives just days after a dire
United Nations climate change report that was immediately met with
dismissive skepticism by the Trump administration. NBC`s Tammy Leitner is
an Albany, Georgia tonight was just trying to feel the effects of the
hurricane right now. What`s it like there now Tammy?

TAMMY LEITNER, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Chris, we are really starting to
get hit. And I am standing here with Ashley. I am holding on to her
because these winds are very strong. She literally wandered into our live
shot after a tree came crashing down through her apartment moments ago.
Ashley, tell me how your how are you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m fine. I`m just a little scare, shaken up.

LEITNER: And what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were – I was at home and we were chilling. The
tree just came through the roof so we evacuated as soon as possible. And
the power line came down so –

LEITNER: And the police told you to get out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they told us that someone would be there as soon
as possible but I didn`t want to take a chance because the roof was already
leaking and I just didn`t want to get hurt or anything like that.

LEITNER: Well, we are so glad you`re OK. Thank you so much. We`re going
to get you in out of this wind here in just a moment. Chris, I`m going to
toss it back to you but the winds are really kicking up and you know we`re
still about three hours out from the eye of the storm passing over Albany
where we are so the worst is still to come here, Chris.

HAYES: All right, Tammy, I hope you guys can get in and get some safe and
some shelter. I`m glad you guys are doing OK. For the very latest on the
Hurricanes path, let`s go to NBC News Meteorologist Bill Karins. Georgia
is not Florida in terms of how acclimated or used to this to be getting hit
with a hurricane so this is new for a lot of folks there right now.

BILL KARINS, MSNBC METEOROLOGIST: And the trees haven`t been thinned in
decades from a storm like this. And that`s the story in Georgia with you
know, stories like that poor lady we just saw, that`s happening all through
southern Georgia and through Central Georgia right through the middle of
the night. They all – where they`re located, they just had a wind gust in
Albany, Georgia 70 miles per hour.

Notice that we are down to a Category One hurricane but that`s still plenty
strong enough to knock down these trees and with it they could fall on
cars, they could fall powerlines, they could fall on homes as we just saw.
So we may not be done with our deadly portion of this storm. Yes, the most
destructive winds are done but you know, it`s still going to be a scary
night through much of (INAUDIBLE) Georgia.

As it get ahead over Macon, Georgia overnight it`ll begin to weaken.
Notice the areas that were really hit hard this morning and into the
afternoon, Tallahassee included all the way down towards the Mexico Beach,
Panama City they`re done. Everything`s getting better there and
dramatically improving. But we still have tropical storm force warnings
all the way up through the Carolinas so we`re not even close to completely
done with this. The winds are now at 90 miles per hour, so that`s good. I
also like this, 17 mile-per-hour winds. Let`s get rid of as fast as we can
and weaken it as fast as we can. Try to spare people more miseries as we
go throughout the night.

So as we go through 2:00 a.m., the eye just south of Macon, what`s left of
it, the center of circulation, then over Augusta as the Sun comes up, and
then it`s going to rain through the Carolinas. And we still have isolated
power outages with winds about the 40 to maybe 50 miles per hour. It`s
really not a huge impact here. We do have flood watches up the East Coast
so we could some minor problems with that also.

Yes, but once again, you know, that rain shields from Atlanta all the way
down to the south. And Chris, we just had so many crazy numbers with this
storm. Strongest hurricane that strikes since Andrew in 92, it was the
fourth – third lowest pressure. It was the fifth strongest winds that
we`ve ever had at a landfall in recorded and our records go back to the
1800s. I mean just so many mind-boggling things.

Before this storm, the strongest landfall in October hurricane had winds of
130. This was a 155. It`s not even close. It was like out of the park
different than any other storm we`ve had in October. And you know, the
poor little communities in a very unpopulated area in Florida were the ones
that were just crushed. They`re the ones that are going to have to maybe
decide if they were going to rebuild their towns or not, Chris.

And you know, as you mentioned with the report that came out the other day,
you know, that was kind of buried with all the other news. You know, what
people ask me is well, will the storm have happened if it wasn`t for
climate change? Maybe. It probably would have happened. Would have been
this bad? Doubtful.


KARINS: And that`s how you have to answer and that`s how you have to go
about this conversation.

HAYES: Well, and there`s just one point on that. One of the is that that
gulf water that it`s moving over was abnormally warm. And one of the
things people kept saying to me was this one felt like it came out of
nowhere because it got so intense so quickly as it was moving over that
gulf water.

KARINS: Our computers poorly analyzed the atmosphere and how much the
strong winds up in the air where the jets fly would interrupt it. We knew
how warm the water was. Our satellites can tell us that. Three days ago,
the Hurricane Center set a landfall of a Cat One so yes, our intensity
forecasting is not great. We have a lot of work to do. It so hard to
model the atmosphere especially over – the water areas that we don`t have
a good sampling.

We don`t – you know we have balloons that we release all over our country
to help us get better information. You can`t do that over the open ocean
and open water so there`s still a lot of work to be done with that and
obviously a lot of work to be done battling the climate change.

HAYES: All right, Bill Karins, thank you very much. I really appreciate
it. For more details on this historic hurricane, I`m joined now by Dr.
Mark Demaria of the National Hurricane Center. And on that point, Doctor,
why did this storm get so bad so quickly as it approached the Panhandle

the Gulf of Mexico was particularly warm. Although it was not so abnormal
that the – a lot of times the ocean temperature actually peaks later in
the season that the atmosphere does so a lot of times the ocean can
maintain its heat well into October even into early November.

HAYES: What have we seen in terms of a storm surge and an inland coastal
flooding on top of the sea level rise we`ve already got?

DEMARIA: Yes. It takes a while to sort out the storm surge values. Again
we need to send surveys in there and there`s really a little not a lot of
instrumentation in there so that`ll be sorted out over the next week or
two. But we actually still do have a storm surge warnings up for the
coastal areas. The water really hasn`t receded from the areas that were
pushed up particularly into the Apalachicola River area and a St. Mark`s
area. So the storm surge threat is not over yet.

HAYES: In the last few storms we`ve seen, we`ve seen a real focus on the
on the sheer amount of water dropped in flooding. This one`s moving rather
quickly. It seems like wind damage, particularly in those areas that
haven`t had storms like this before, is that is the biggest threat now.

DEMARIA: Yes, that`s correct. It`s actually as a latest advisory still
we`re seeing 90 mile per hour winds in a small area near the center and –
in South Georgia there where there`s – it`s a heavily wooded area, they
don`t really get high winds very often there so it doesn`t take a lot a lot
of wind to get a lot of tree damage so that`s still a big hazard.

HAYES: All right, Dr. Mark Demaria, thank you very much.

DEMARIA: You`re welcome.

HAYES: NBC News – NBC`s Kerry Sanders is in Panama City Florida where
several buildings have reportedly collapsed after taking a direct hit from
Hurricane Michael. And Kerry I`ve seen some images of Panama City that are
pretty upsetting.

KERRY SANDERS, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, they are. And this really
is a tale of the eastern and the western portion of the storm. So of
course, to the east of the storm about 43 miles from here is Mexico Beach.
When the eye came up sure that was to the east and that`s what drove in the
water. The winds of it 155 miles per hour wall up to that small community.
In fact, trying to get to that community is very difficult right now for
emergency officials and anybody else.

Meantime, as you come this side of the storm, west of the eye, the damage
is not so much the water driven storm surge but rather the wind damage.
The wind damage just a short distance from here about a 15-minute drive,
one of the marinas a good portion of it collapsed. and I got to tell you.
I was out in the winds today and 150 some odd miles an hour, I didn`t have
a wind gauge but I`ll tell you it took me off balance. I was wearing a
protective helmet, it blew it right off my head.

So what the folks who are doing now is determining how bad the damage is
before they allow people back on to this barrier island. The three bridges
remain closed because you can see the wind is still blowing. Chris, the
real concern of course also a lot letting people back on tomorrow because
everybody always wants to come home, is those downed power lines and there
are down power lines here. The power is mostly out on this beach area but
that doesn`t mean that there might be a live wire still down.

So anybody planning on returning if they fled as they were asked to do that
mandatory evacuation they might want to just give themselves a little day
or so before they actually consider coming back to get a true read on
whether they can actually come back rather than driving back getting to
Panama City being unable to make it to Panama City Beach which is a
separate city and then finding out while we`re in Panama City aside for
bunking at some friends house there`s nowhere to stay because all the
hotels there are full, many of the people who evacuated from here.

HAYES: All right, Kerry Sanders, thank you for joining us. And joining me
now from Gainesville, Florida Craig Fugate whose former FEMA Administrator
under Barack Obama. Craig, what are the biggest priorities in the
aftermath of something like this particularly a place like Panama City?

doing the initial search, getting debris picked up, power back on, really
we break it into life-saving and life safety and then life-sustaining and
then starting the recovery. But I think the real challenge is just those
communities east of Panama City is just being able to get in there. That`s
part of reason why the Florida National Guard had helicopters brought in,
their cruiser ready, Coast Guard ready to
Fly, started some response tonight but I think the big push will be
tomorrow morning.

HAYES: How do you assess the sort of effectiveness or the lessons we`ve
learned. We`ve now had six hurricanes in two years. There`s a long period
where we didn`t have a lot. We`ve had a lot of experience in the last two
years. How much are we learning, how are we getting better at recovery and
relief – and relief in the wake of them.

FUGATE: Well, that`s a problem. We`re getting good at it. And the
question is why. So the climate report points out is the threat continues
to increase. We got to start asking herself why are we always focused on
response recovery, why aren`t we building better in the first place? Where
we build, how we build, it has a big impact on generating these responses.
We`re very fortunate this part of coast was not hopefully populated. But
if we continue to allow growth unfettered in high-risk areas, ultimately
you`re getting the point where you just can`t respond to these big storms
every year. You got to start building and developing in ways that`s
sustainable. And when we go to rebuild, we can`t rebuild in the past. We
have to rebuild at the future risk.

HAYES: You mentioned future risk. In the IPCC report I want to play you a
bit of sound and exchange to the State Department. Obviously, that report
coming out earlier this week very dire picture, a huge amount of scientific
data marshaled to sort of look at what kind of window we have, what the
effects might be. The White House rather dismissive of it. This is an
exchange that the State Department. I want to get your reaction to it.
Take a listen.


report that they produced and its contents that remains responsibilities of
its authors. Governments do not formally endorse specific findings
presented by the authors. There are inherent limitations of trying to
assess projected impacts and costs of warming at a specific temperature and
time period.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? You know that there`s a hurricane that is
smashing into the Florida Panhandle right now that a lot of people say
where it was exacerbated by climate change. The ice is – the Arctic
melting – the Arctic ICE is melting at record paces and you`re not sure?


HAYES: My question to you is can you run an effective FEMA in the 21st
century if you are not building climate risk into every part of the

FUGATE: Well, when we work for President Obama with Hurricane Sandy hit he
said Craig, I think the debate about climate change is over. We got to
start talking about adaptation. So we tried in our administration to
increase the federal floodplain management standard. I continue to work on
this now that I`m out of government. And quite honestly, if the financial
markets are now paying attention to climate change, last year Moody`s sent
out an advisory from there research firm to tell advisors that you know,
investing in state and local bonds, you better be cautious because the
increasing cost of what it`s going to cost to mitigate the risk of climate
change and responding to disasters could affect local governments and
states abilities to service their bonds.

So the private sector is paying attention. And again, I think time is
running out. Talking about climate change is not action and I don`t think
we can stop what`s been started. We really need to start talking about how
are we going to adapt our communities to these increasing impacts.

HAYES: All right, Craig Fugate, it`s always a great pleasure to have you.
Thank you very much.

FUGATE: Thank you.

HAYES: We`ll continue the coverage on Hurricane Michael ahead and update
you with the latest. Plus, as the hurricane bears down in Florida and
Georgia, the President attacks Democrats in Pennsylvanian. That`s next.


HAYES: As Hurricane Michael is bearing down on Florida today, NBC`s Kelly
O`Donnell asked Donald Trump if it was appropriate to hold his planned
campaign rally tonight. Trump insisted he had little choice.


thousands of people lined up, and so we are in a little bit of a quagmire.
I don`t want to disappoint people. They`ve gotten there – some people
were saying they got there last night. I believe it starts at about 7:00
going to Pennsylvania so we`ll probably go. Because what are you going to
do, tell thousands of people that have been waiting there all night that
we`re not coming? That`s not fair either.


HAYES: That`s not fair. For the record NBC News today could not find
anyone who waited in line overnight and there was no line outside the arena
as of 11:00 this morning. But anyway, Trump did indeed go to the rally and
the storm does not seem to have temperate his tone very much. He has, for
the most part, held a typical campaign event full of boasts attacks one not
unlike last night rally in Iowa where Trump supporters called for the
imprisonment of Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein.


AMERICAN CROWD: Lock her up. Lock her up. Lock her up. Lock her up.


HAYES: Joining me now David Jolly, former Republican Congressman from
Florida who joins me from Tampa. Also with me New York Times Columnist
Michelle Goldberg, Co-Host of the new podcast The Argument which debuts
tomorrow. If you ever wanted explicit advertisement of what locked her up
was about, I feel like the crowd –


HAYES: Yes, women with power that we don`t like. I was – I mean, again,
you stopped being shocked to these moments but like he raises Diane
Feinstein in the crowd shouting –

GOLDBERG: Right. And the crowd knows what to do, right?

HAYES: They know exactly –

GOLDBERG: They say the name of a woman they don`t like and they know
exactly how to respond. And of course obviously there`s a tweet for
everything, right? There`s a bunch of tweets of Donald Trump complaining
about Obama doing campaign events during national disasters. Obviously,
nobody expects him to join a sort of consistency. But what I think is – I
mean, and I also don`t think it`s not like he would be doing any good if he
was in D.C. trying to respond to manifold natural disasters and foreign
policy disasters, possible economic disasters, but at least –

HAYES: Yes, he would – he would just be watching cable news, right? No,
I mean, that`s honestly what –

GOLDBERG: Yes, that is true. But it`s worth I think at least pointing out
that his administration seems to be kind of manifestly understaffed and
unable to address, right? There`s like tons of missing personnel at FEMA
including a deputy director. We don`t have – there`s a huge foreign
policy crisis unfolding with Saudi Arabia and Turkey, two countries to
which we don`t have ambassadors, right? So there`s like you know, I think
that it`s always been clear with the Trump administration that eventually
this jerry-rigged scam right, like kind of man behind the curtain thing was
eventually going to fall apart. Who knows if this is the moment when that
starts that happen, but it`s always been called that it`s going to happen.

HAYES: And it`s also true to me, David, and from your perch, in Florida, I
can imagine this is close to home that it already has fallen apart in
Puerto Rico. I mean, I continue to be astounded by the fact and this is
directly relevant to what`s happening now which is that you learn from
disasters and you learn from disasters more importantly and there were 21
hearings about Katrina by a Republican-controlled Congress when that
happened because it was important to get to the bottom of what happened.
And 3,000 Americans died under this administration`s watch and we don`t
know anything about why.

President is interested in accountability which we know he`s not nor is he
interested in decency, Chris. Listen, the contrast tonight with him in
Pennsylvania is going to require a lot of Floridians to temper their anger.
We have people still fighting for their lives. We`ve learned in the last
ten minutes about the first fatality of this storm. We know there will
likely be more. We have people who are suffering from water and wind.
South Georgia is still undergoing a hurricane. The President is in
Pennsylvania entertaining chance of lock her up and making a joke about the
MeToo Movement in his remarks tonight. There is no decency in what this
president is doing.

And listen, we saw it in the state level in the past. Politicians in
Florida would step back during a storm. The only person who truly stepped
back in this storm to do his job was Andrew Gillum. Ron DeSantis, the
Republican Party of Florida kept an ad up attacking Andrew Gillum about his
management of hurricanes. Both Senator Nelson and Rick Scott kept ads up.
The one moment of bipartisanship was when we saw Andrew Gillum and Rick
Scott on a phone call together. That comedy if you will, but the tea is
and is in stark contrast to what we`re seeing from the Donald Trump

HAYES: One of the things that`s also interesting about this is he loves
being on his own, clearly. I mean his sort of insatiable thirst and need
for attention is watered by it. He`s in Pennsylvania right now. He`s very
much wanting to make the midterms about him even in places where I don`t
think it`s helpful like Pennsylvania right now for instance.

GOLDBERG: Right, and it`s definitely not helpful for him to go to
Pennsylvania and make the midterms about him and a referendum on the MeToo
movement in a state where you have you know, kind of a lot of female
candidates, a huge amount of female energy. But this isn`t really about
what will help the Republican Party. I mean, thankfully I`m glad that he`s
not being super strategic about what will help the Republican Party, right?
This is about his own extreme narcissism and need for gratification, you
know, as his kind of poll numbers and prospects decline.

HAYES: David, there was – there`s a piece in the – in the remarkable
Olivia Nuzzi piece in New York Magazine which we`re going to get to in a
second where he`s telling her that he thinks her poll numbers are going up
because he`s doing so many rallies. And I think he did – someone`s
telling him that and he`s going to be doing those as much as he can from
now until Election Day.

JOLLY: And look, in terms of House districts he`s going to, he`s going to
deep red districts and it`s and it`s confirmation bias. But look, he`s in
Pennsylvania tonight. That Senate race is over. Bob Casey leads that race
by double digits. There is nothing about tonight in Pennsylvania other
than stroking the President`s own ego.

And listen, I think the good people of Pennsylvania would have understood
if the president said I`m sorry there`s a natural disaster. We`re going to
pass on tonight. It`s not a critical rally tonight for the U.S. Senate
candidate for Republicans but that never was. This is about Donald Trump.

HAYES: Let me ask you one more follow-up question. Do you think this
matters to Floridians right now? I mean, a lot will depend on how bad this
is and what the after-effects are like. But I just wonder what your sense
of how that plays down there is.

JOLLY: Yes, because people are still trapped in their home. I mean, I
heard of a friend – from a friend tonight who`s trapped in their home.
They think their cars totaled. They can`t get out to see it. And
understand last year in Irma, the aftermath, the weeks of lost power.
Recall we saw the nursing home where 12 residents died because a result of
lost power. It was ruled a homicide. This tragedy is just beginning. And
if you turn on the news and you see political ads like we`re seeing from
candidates in Florida, or you see Donald Trump having a rally in
Pennsylvania, it shows the disconnect that we know he`s always suffered

HAYES: All right, Michelle Goldberg and David Jolly, thanks to you both.
Coming up, what happens when the President wants to get rid of the story
about White House chaos, just ask Olivia Nuzzi the New York Magazine
Reporter who was pulled into an astoundingly bizarre Oval Office interview
with the President and some of the nation`s top officials. She joins me to
talk about how it happened just ahead.


HAYES: If you`re wondering what`s it`s like to sit down across from the
President as he tries to convince you there`s no chaos in the White House
only to be joined in the Oval Office by chief of STAFF JOHn Kelly, Vice
President Pence and Secretary of State Pompeo all playing along with the
President to convince you the same thing, then you have to read Olivia
Nuzzi`s new piece in New York Magazine.

It started off simple enough. Nuzzi writing yesterday she was on my way
out of the White House after a series of meetings in the West Wing
reporting on how John Kelly managed to keep his job in spite of convincing
and persistent rumors and reports the president is unhappy with him when
she got a call saying that Trump wanted to speak to her. What follows one
of the most transparent examples the President trying to convince the
journalists who publish his narrative.

And we know that because reporter Olivia Nuzzi published the transcript of
everything that happened. And joining me now is Olivia Nuzzi, Washington
Correspondent for New York Magazine. It`s a wild piece. So, take me
through what happened.

leaving the White House. I was there yesterday morning for a series of
interviews. As you said, I was trying to report a story about the Chief of
Staff, John Kelly.

And as I was leaving I bumped into a friend, another reporter, and I was
having a cigarette which is why I was out for a fairly long time before I
would`ve been walking out at the gate to leave.

And then, as I was leaving I saw I had this missed call. It was Sarah
Huckabee Sanders. I - she asked me to come back inside, and I went in.
She brought me to the Oval Office. And what ensued was just a completely
surreal series of events, basically, where the president was speaking to me
about why my story was incorrect, my story which I had not written yet at
that point, which I was still reporting.

And he was answering questions that I had asked to various officials in the
White House that day, but that I did not directly ask him. He was, sort
of, going through a list of items that he must`ve been briefed on. And
then, Chief Kelly came into the room. The vice president came into the

Mike Pompeo came into the room. He was scheduled to have a lunch with the
president. So, I - I think he was probably confused, I`m guessing, about
what was happening in there. But it was very - very strange. It was one
of the more surreal experiences I`ve had covering this White House.

HAYES: What`s greater - to me it was a little bit of pulling back the
curtain about his method because, clearly, you`re in there. It`s sort of
an intimidating setup. It`s him and all of these people. You`re sitting
there. He`s trying to work you over on what the narrative is. And he`s
just sort of plowing ahead with the stuff that you would hear at a rally
like everything is the best, the greatest it`s ever been.

But it also seems like the whole thing was coordinated. Like, this was all
about intervening in the New York Magazine`s story about some John Kelly –

NUZZI: Right. I don`t know whether or not it was totally coordinated. It
seemed that way, especially because the president kept saying, look, we
didn`t plan this. I think at one point he said, “This is not set up.”

And, you know, usually–


NUZZI: – if somebody says this is not setup, it`s like I`m sure that`s
true. So, I kept remarking sort of sarcastically when he would say that.
I would say “Oh, yes this seems very spontaneous.”

And, you know, it was very strange. I think that it might be that
sometimes people are just in and out of the Oval Office. Obviously, that
was something that General Kelly worked very hard to change when he was
came onboard, the fact that there was sort of this open-door policy.

And that has been in various reports over the last year, something that the
president is allegedly upset about. He misses, sort of–

HAYES: The free willing (ph).

NUZZI: – how free it felt, exactly. And we talked a little bit about
that yesterday.

HAYES: He gives - he gives you it tough when he gives you a list of
accomplishments - the Trump administration accomplishments, their - their
jobs numbers, executive orders, promises to fix the tax reform bill.
You`ve - I think we`ve got some images of what those look like.

On the second page, Republicans want strong borders and no crime.
Democrats want open borders which equals massive crime. But I guess my
question to you is, he just seems inordinately focused on this. Like - and
it also seems like this is the thing he really gets into. That`s what you
- that was my takeaway from this whole exchange.

NUZZI: Right. Yes, I mean, I said this in the piece and even when it
comes to John Kelly, it - it seems unbelievable to think that somebody like
John Kelly who has had the kind of career that he has had would care about
something like this, a story about, you know, basically palace intrigue.

I think it`s very important because it has implications for policy with
this White House. It explains why they can get things - certain things
done. Why they can`t get most other things done if you understand the way
that it works inside.

But it - it seemed like an awful lot of time to spend with, sort of, the -
some of the most important people in our government, talking to a magazine
reporter about how they get along with each other. I mean, it was bizarre.

HAYES: There`s a lot of, sort of, performative amity that`s happening –


NUZZI: I`m in favor of it. Don`t get me wrong. Like I hope it happens –

HAYES: Yes. No, obviously.

NUZZI: – more often.


HAYES: Of course.

NUZZI: But it was highly unusual.

HAYES: Let me ask you something. Did he - he goes of the record at one

NUZZI: I wrote that in the piece, yes.

HAYES: Yes. That`s - that - I was glad you wrote that in the piece,
because what he said - one thing that I got from this is the president has
been talking to reporters since he was 25 years old. He has been working
reporters. He`s been working them over for decades and decades.

NUZZI: Right.

HAYES: Most of his adult life. And I just felt like I got to see what
that looks like from this piece.

NUZZI: You know I`ll be honest with you. Initially, I did not have that
in the piece, but we realized it was confusing the way that I had initially
phrased it. And so, we changed it, I think, a few minutes after
publication. But I think you`re right, and I - you know, I remember the
first time that I ever interviewed him back in 2014, I was really struck
by, kind of, the ease with which he would–


NUZZI: – say off the record. And then he would say, now back on the

And most people are not that skilled, but as you`ve said, he has been doing
this for a very long time and I`ll be honest with you, even today in this
White House, there are officials, there are press officials who do not know
what off the record versus background, versus deep backgrounds means, even
to this day given the problems that they have had in the past with people
like Anthony Scaramucci, they still don`t know. And I –

HAYES: But, the president knows.

NUZZI: – that`s remarkable. The president certainly knows. He`s very
savvy about the press.

HAYES: Olivia Nuzzi, thank you so much for joining us.

NUZZI: Thank you.

HAYES: After break, the president writes an op-ed in which nearly every
sentence was misleading or flat out wrong, which is proving to be the
Republican midterm strategy in the era of Trump. We`ll talk about that


HAYES: The biggest newspaper in the country is “U.S. Today,” and today
that newspaper ran an op-ed that named, as its author, Donald J. Trump,
President of the United States.

It was all about healthcare and it was fact checked by “The Washington
Post,” which found that almost every sentence contained a misleading
statement or a falsehood. In fact, you don`t have to be “The Washington
Post” to know that, you could just read it, it`s plainly not true.

Now, that has got to be a first for the nations largest newspaper, it is
certainly nothing new for the president of the Republican – for the
Republican Party, which has realized that healthcare is actually number one
issues for voters this year, and so they`ve embarked on a coordinated
midterm strategy to ridiculously and flagrantly lie about healthcare in ads
and speeches.

Joining me now, “HuffPost” Senior National Correspondent, Jonathan Cohn,
who`s been tracking GOP healthcare rhetoric and who wrote today about
Trump`s rambling, dishonest op-ed.

I guess we`ll start with the Trump op-ed, two big, obvious flagrant lies.
We say we`re going to protect preexisting conditions and we`re going to
bring down premiums and we`re doing both, but those aren`t true.

we all remember 2017, right? President Trump got elected. The first
priority of his Administration was to repeal the Affordable Care Act, and
that`s what he spent most of the year trying to do.

And the legislation that he was pushing would have gutted protections for
people with preexisting conditions. And he kept pushing it and he kept
pushing it and eventually the bill failed. Barely. One vote in the Senate
different and it would have become law. But, since that`s happened, he`s
basically done whatever he could to undermine those same protections using
his own authority.

I mean, right now, there is a case in Federal Court in Texas where the
Federal Government is asking a judge to throw out the protections for
preexisting conditions. That is – his name is on his – his Justice
Department is supporting that lawsuit, and yet, he`s walking around
sayings, whoa, we`d always protect – protect -


HAYES: Yes, they`re literally suing in Federal Court to blow the whole
thing up, and not just them, State Attorney`s General, including State
Attorney General of Missouri, a guy by the name of Josh Hawley, who also
happens to be running for Senate.

With this ad, he is – literally, his name – he is named on that suit to
blow up the ACA and destroy protections for preexisting conditions and this
is the ad he`s running in his Senate race right now. Take a look.


JOSH HAWLEY, MISSORURI ATTORNEY GENERAL: Earlier this year we learned our
oldest has a rare chronic disease, preexisting condition. We know what
that`s like. I`m Josh Hawley. I support forcing insurance companies to
cover all preexisting conditions.


HAYES: So, then take yourself off the lawsuit. Stop suing.

COHN: It`s preposterous. I mean, this is as straight up a lie as you will
see in politics. He is on that lawsuit, he as supported repeal, it is
simply not true to say that he thinks it`s important that he would fight to
protect people with preexisting positions, but he`s saying it, because he
knows that`s what the voters want to hear.

HAYES: The other big lie that I keep seeing and I`ve seen it in ad after
ad, I spend a lot of time on YouTube, like looking at targeted races and
looking at the ads there, is Republicans running with the idea that,
whichever Democrat they`re running against is support single payer Medicare
For All, even when they haven`t. Even when they have explicitly said they
haven`t, they have chosen to basically say, every Democrat, everywhere is
single payer Medicare For All and that will steal your Medicare forever.

COHN: Right. And I mean and this was Trump was writing today in the op-
ed. Everybody – everybody wants to endorse Medicare For All and that`s
what every single Democrat wants.

Now, there are some Democrats who want that, Bernie Sanders has proposed
that, a number of democratic senators, including some who will run for
president, have supported.

But, one of the things you learn about Medicare For All, is when you
explain it to people it`s actually pretty popular.

HAYES: Exactly.

COHN: People like the idea of saying, “Gee, you mean I wouldn`t have to
worry about co-payments and deductibles? You mean, I wouldn`t have to
worry about networks? You mean it might be less expensive?”

I mean it sounds very – look, it`s a complicated idea. It`s got pluses
and minuses, there`s lots of reasons you might like or not like it, but
it`s not at all clear to me that when you say the Democrats are going to
give you Medicare For All, that people are going to run away screaming. I
think a lot of people would say, “Hey, that sounds pretty good.”

I mean, we`ve seen polls on this, it actually polls – it polls pretty well
among Republicans too.

HAYES: Yes. And we should note, that over half of the democratic ads have
been featuring healthcare because I think they sense they have a winning
hand to play on this. Jonathan Cohn, thanks for being with me tonight.

COHN: Thanks for having me.

HAYES: Ahead, “The Washington Post” is reporting tonight that they Crown
Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammad Bin Salman himself ordered an operation to
lure a “Washington Post” columnist back to Saudi Arabia in order to detain
him. That breaking news ahead.


HAYES: Hurricane Michael is a category one storm now as it moves through
Georgia. It roared on shore as a Cat 4, fueled by unusually warm waters in
the Gulf of Mexico, just days after the world`s top authority and climate
science issued a report warning that we have about 12 years to stave off
the most dire consequences of climate change, including more of these kinds
of intense storms.

I`m joined now by Dr. Irwin Redlener. He`s Director of the National Center
for Disaster Preparedness at Columbia University. Are we doing enough, are
we getting better for prepare for disaster and cope and deal with it in the
era of climate change we`re in?

Not really, unfortunately. We keep calling these things wakeup calls and
we treat it more like snooze alarms. We get all aroused in the drama and
then we hit that button and then we`re back into a state of complacency.

Things have been – some things are better. FEMA`s better than it was
during the old Michael Brown days, but we have a lot of work to do and I`m
especially worried about the upstream issues, like climate change, like we
still have vulnerable people living in poverty in very high risk areas,
like we still keep building in the most vulnerable parts of our country.
It`s a little progress and a lot backsliding.

HAYES: It seems to me that if you took this seriously, if you do take it
seriously, you`re talking about something very comprehensive and ambitious
in how you conceptualize everything from flood insurance, to zoning, to
building, to preparedness, to where we do what we do and how we deal with
the built environment.

REDLENER: Yes, we have – everything about it – we just went through
Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico, it just wrecked the country. We just
rebuilt the electrical system exactly the same way it was before the

HAYES: Is that really true?

REDLENER: Yes, it`s true and it`s just as fragile as it was before,
because the money didn`t show up, these very grandiose plans that the U.S.
Army Corp of Engineers had presented – I was at a press conference in San
Juan 10 days after the storm, big PowerPoint presentation, I`ve got to bury
the cables and microgrids and solar power and it turns out nobody did that
and we have now –

HAYES: There was not the money for it? There was not the will for it?

REDLENER: – not the money, it`s hard to say. And the Governor of Puerto
Rico just set up a commission that I`ll be on, sort of looking into what
the issues were, but –

HAYES: You`re going to be on that commission?

REDLENER: I`m going to be on the commission.

HAYES: Is it as stunning to you as it is to me that we have not done more
to figure out what happened that killed 3,000 Americans?

REDLENER: It`s an unbelievable situation and these searing images of the
president throwing a roll of paper towels like it was football to people
suffering from the effects of that storm, there are so many issues involved

Where was the military for many, many weeks? They finally showed up with
one of the big hospital ships. They basically languished in the harbor
there for a couple of months, didn`t see any patients to speak of and then
they left. The whole thing was horrendous from top to bottom. We do need
to get to the bottom of this.

So, we have issues to do with the preexisting conditions that put us in
that situation, the lack of resilience, the lack of resources and the other
thing that happens is, once these – the cameras are gone and the focus is
gone, and then especially with Puerto Rico, which doesn`t really have
representation in Congress, they`re just struggling like crazy.

On the other hand, Chris, Hurricane Harvey reeked incredible damage in
Texas; people in Port Arthur and Beaumont are still suffering there too.


REDLENER: One into the other, you know.

HAYES: And after the cameras gone, I remember reporting the aftermath of
Sandy here in the metro area, both in New Jersey and also out in the
Rockaways. I mean for a year afterwards peoples lives were spun around
like tops.


HAYES: And not really ever recovered after that.

REDLENER: Correct.

HAYES: And it sounds to me like what you`re saying is, we do not have the
resilience in place to deal with that as we think about what`s going to
happen with these folks, particularly in some rather poor areas in the
state of Florida who are getting pounded by Michael right now.

REDLENER: Absolutely. There`s - we`ve done some mapping, if you put the -
if you map the impoverished areas along that coast, and look at the storm
trajectory, it`s like oh my god. And by the way, it`s a 60 square mile
superfund site right in harms way there that people haven`t even recognized
as an old army base - air force base, totally contaminated, who know what`s
going to happen with that.

There`s like 19 hospitals and 100 and something nursing homes and so on, so
we have really big problems. None of those are as resilient as we would
like them to be. We`re going to have a really big problem trying to
recover that community, and I`m afraid potentially a lot of loss of life.

HAYES: All right, Dr. Irwin Redlener, thank you so much for being here.


HAYES: Just ahead, it`s been eight days since journalist Jamal Khashoggi
walked into a Saudi Arabian consulate in Turkey, and has not been seen
since. Tonight we have breaking news on his disappearance and that`s next.


HAYES: Breaking news from the Washington Post tonight on the disappearance
of their columnist Jamal Khashoggi after he wanted into a Saudi consulate
in Turkey eight days ago.

The paper reporting tonight that Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of
Saudi Arabia, ordered an operation, quote, “To lure Khashoggi back to Saudi
Arabia from his home in Virginia and then detain him,” according to U.S.
Intelligence Intercepts of Saudi Officials discussing the plan.

We do not know yet what really happened to Jamal Khashoggi last week, seen
there in front of the Turkish Consulate, but Turkey authorities seem
convinced the journalist was murdered inside that building that you`re
seeing there.

An outlet such as the “New York Times” and the “Associated Press” reported
allegations that Khashoggi was also dismembered. It`s unclear what the
U.S. Government might have known as head of time, and it`s unclear what the
government is doing now, beyond apparently trusting Saudi Arabia to
investigation themselves.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) are you demanding an investigation (ph)?

demanding everything. We want to see what`s going on here. That`s a bad


HAYES: Here to help me understand just want is going on, Hayes Brown,
deputy World News editor of Buzzfeed News, whose been writing about
Khashoggi`s disappearance and Donald Trump`s response.

So first thing is, there has been a pressure turned up by United State
Senators in the White House a bit. Mike Pence and Pompeo and the
president, but it seems to me it all sort of buy the Saudi line that
there`s an investigation ongoing.

haven`t really seen anything to back that up. We have seen no evidence by
the Saudis that Khashoggi ever actually left the building, like they claim.
If you believe the Saudis, he`s wondering around in Istanbul somewhere, or
has gotten on a plane to somewhere else.

HAYES: And by the way, an extremely surveilled city and extremely
surveilled nation, with CCTV everywhere.

BROWN: Exactly. So the fact that there is no footage, apparently, of
Khashoggi leaving the building is extremely suspect, and the fact that the
Trump administration seems to be called on Saudi Arabia to cough up
whatever evidence it has without making any real pressure on them seems

HAYES: Yes. There`s also to me – there`s a little bit of an unreliable
narrator problem here, which is a lot of the information we`re getting,
which are to be clear, extremely upsetting (inaudible) details, are coming
from Turkish security officials who aren`t necessarily trustable carte

BROWN: Right and the reporters who have been reporting on this are doing a
great job with the information that they`re given, but the fact is, all the
narrative is coming from Turkish police, Turkish officials, Turkish
security services, who were not sure what sort of influence geopolitics
would have on a story like this. We don`t know whether the claim that
first came out on Saturday that he was killed in the consulate is true or
not. We just don`t know that, but the Turkish officials are really pushing
this forward and to be fair, it does advance their rivalry with Saudi

HAYES: And they also have named the 16 officials. They said one of them
was an autopsy doctor who was brought in there. If “The Washington Post”
story is right, what I think is so explosive about that is the idea that
this is Mohammed bin Salman personally ordering, perhaps, this operation.
This is a guy who is - you can see pictures of him with Jeff Bezo`s and
Richard Branson and sitting down, and he and Jared Kushner are buddies.

“The Intercept” reporting the Saudi Crown Prince posted that Jared Kushner
was, quote, “In his pocket:. It really makes you wonder, what did the U.S.
Government know about this ahead of time?

BROWN: Right. That`s still unclear. We see senators talking about the
fact that they had intelligence briefings. We see this report from Shane
Harris at “The Washington Post”, but what his story doesn`t say was that he
ordered this specific operation in Turkey. It says that they wanted to
lure him from his home in Virginia where he had been living for the last
year, away from the clutches of the Saudi regime, back to Saudi Arabia so
he can be detained. Where the Istanbul consulate comes into this is still
very unclear.

HAYES: That`s a great point, and we don`t know if its part of the same
operation. What we do know is though, if they did in fact either kidnap
him, apprehend him, or murder him inside that consulate, that is a
remarkably provocative move, and it only happens, I think, if they think
they can get away with it because they`ve been given such a green light by
this administration.

BROWN: I would have to agree with that. The fact is, ever since Mohammed
bin Salman became Crown Prince, he came to the U.S. he did a tour - a PR
tour where people hailed (ph) him as reformer and he`s really gotten a lot
of people on his side, and this Trump administration from day one has been
extremely poor on calling out regimes with poor human rights records.

So that fact that the Saudis possibly can even think that they would be
able to get away with this is a terrible sign for how the relationship is
going between Saudi Arabia and D.C. Like if they think the relationship is
valuable, so important that they can do whatever they want carte blanche
that says a terrible thing about the balance of power between D.C. and
reality (ph).

HAYES: And I also wonder what message it sends to every other regime in
the world that wants dissidents or journalists who are walking around
aboard, killed. What you can get away with is you get away with this,

BROWN: On one hand we see Russia acting in the United Kingdom with the
Skripal poisoning, et cetera. But this is Saudi Arabia acting inside its
region. Both countries that are friendly to the U.S., so the fact if our
allies think they can get away with this, what does it say about our

HAYES: That`s a great point, Hayes Brown, thank you very much for your

That is all for tonight (ph), the Rachel Maddow show starts right now.

Good evening, Rachel.


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