Supreme Court upholds Trump Travel Ban. TRANSCRIPT: 6/26/2018. All In with Chris Hayes
Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
Date: June 26, 2018
Guest: Cory Booker, Linda Sarsour, Jess McIntosh, Michelle Goldberg, Keith
Ellison, Sonya Nazario, Karine Jean-Pierre
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: Thanks for being with us. “ALL IN” with Chris
Hayes starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on ALL IN.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Donald J. Trump is calling
for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.
HAYES: What began as a Muslim ban has been upheld by the Supreme Court.
TRUMP: It`s called I`m sorry you can`t come in, you have to leave.
HAYES: Tonight, what complete control of government looks like for the
party of Trump and what Democrats plan to do about it with Senator Cory
Booker? Plus, as a resistance to Donald Trump`s family separation
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are you separating families?
ELAINE CHAO, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: Why don`t you
leave my husband alone?
HAYES: – is a new Democratic protest movement taking shape. And Donald
Trump`s messy breakup with an American icon continues.
TRUMP: I think the people that ride Harley`s are not happy with Harley-
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes. Today, today was one
of those days that crystallizes exactly what`s at stake in American
politics right now at this moment. The political coalition that currently
controls all three branches of the federal government just took a major
step to consolidate its power leveraging a arguably stolen Supreme Court
seat to validate the agenda of a president who we have to remember lost the
popular vote, whose campaign was backed by in foreign our adversary
possibly with his campaign`s help and who in word and in deed explicitly
uses the power of his office, exclusively for the benefit of the minority
of the country that supports him. In a 5-4 decision, the Supreme Court
upheld the President`s ban on travel from a list of mostly Muslim
countries, the third version of a policy originally cooked up on the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of
Muslims entering the United States until our country`s representatives can
figure out what the hell is going on. We have no choice. We have no
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That was widely condemned at the time including by now Vice
President Mike Pence. But today writing the majority opinion, Chief
Justice John Roberts shows to effectively ignore the President`s own
rhetoric ruling that the newest version of the travel ban is “neutral on
its face and falls within the President`s executive authority.” He was
joined the majority by none other than Justice Neil Gorsuch, surprise-
surprise whom the president nominated last year after Mitch McConnell in an
extraordinary feat of maximalism not to mention one might argue incivility
blocked President Barack Obama from filling a vacant Supreme Court seat
refusing to even so much as hold hearings on his nominee. Today McConnell
got to pat himself in the back tweeting a picture of himself shaking the
justices hand because well, he knew what was going on, everyone did.
With its decision on the travel ban today the Republican-controlled Supreme
Court gives an effective green light to the president`s immigration agenda
which I`m sure the President receives as more than just about this case.
That immigration agenda let`s remember until last week including tearing
migrant children away from their parents of the border as a kind of
punishment and deterrence and reportedly in some cases holding those
children as hostages to force families to drop their asylum claims. The
family separation policy appears to have been halted after overwhelming
public backlash, but and this is important the vast majority, the vast
majority of those children right now as I speak to you have yet to be
reunited with their parents. The President has been quite clear about how
he wants immigrants and migrants to be treated going forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Other countries it`s called I`m sorry you can`t come in, you have
to leave. This one we have judges. If they step on our land, we have
judges. It`s insane. It is a hodgepodge of laws that have been put
together over years and we have to change it. It`s so simple. It`s called
up sorry you can`t come in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Think about that for a second. If they step on our land, we have
judges. It`s insane. Oh yes, in America we have judges. I`m sorry you
can`t come in. That`s the President`s immigration policy in a nutshell.
Whether you`re talking about a student from Yemen or an asylum seeker from
Guatemala or a doctor from Iran, in the eyes of this President and his
allies people like White House aide Stephen Miller and Congressman Steve
King, immigration poses an existential threat both to the nation`s
identity, its racial makeup and crucially their own grasp on power.
Now to be clear, those people who view their mission as preserving and
entrenching the political power of their overwhelmingly white base, they
still make up a small minority of the political class and of the country in
general. But right now at this moment, they are the ones in charge unless
and until the bigger portion of the majority of the country mobilizes
against them. I`m joined now by a member of the Democratic Party
leadership, 2018 candidate for Attorney General in Minnesota, one of the
few Muslims serving on Capitol Hill, Congressman Keith Ellison.
Congressman, first your reaction to the majority opinion in which the Chief
Justice basically says maybe he said some nasty stuff but you got to just
look at this sort of terms of the four squares of what`s in there and it
passes constitutional muster.
REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Well it`s really kind of a surprising
and shocking decision because it`s very clear that you can have a document
that might be facially neutral but if it`s intent, purpose, and expected
application are discriminatory, then that is not going to pass
constitutional muster. Yet the Supreme Court said if they get a thin
excuse for national security they`ll pretty much let the President do
anything. That`s pretty disturbing because you can imagine how this can be
applied in other areas. This seems to be a represent it comes to the
President`s most odious and ugly discriminatory impulses.
HAYES: You know, there`s something else this Court has done which is it is
struck down lower court`s blocking racially prejudicial redistricting plans
including in the Texas case. They`ve also upheld Ohio`s purging of people
from the voter rolls. Again, those were similar people on both sides of
those issues in terms of the opinions. What do you see is happening in
terms of how the Republican Party and the court and the president are using
the power they have right now?
ELLISON: Well, they`re using their power to dominate the country even
though they represent a minority of Americans. They are – you know, the
decisions that we just saw regarding voting were nothing short of
disturbing. They are hostile to the idea of representative democracy and
I`m telling they`re pretty overt about this. They`re pretty clear. You
remember well the Kris Kobach commission that was going to study the false
you know, voting the group that according to him fraudulently switched the
popular vote to Hillary Clinton. I mean, that – and that`s just sort of
the beginning. I mean, we all know that we`re living under a gutted Voting
Rights Act. We still have not been able to pass the restoration of that.
So that`s what we`re looking at, a minority that is trying to dominate the
majority and is using the courts, the legislature and the President to do
HAYES: What do you say the people are saying, well, they`re doing a pretty
good job right now? What do we do about it?
ELLISON: I have to agree – I have to agree that they`re doing a good job
that about at it but what we`ve got to do about it is mobilize and get out
there. We`ve got to go to those low turnout districts and get folks out to
the polls and we`ve also got to argue that it is about an election but it`s
not only about an election. Activism, engagement, participation in society
really has to go up. You know, I tell you sitting on the sidelines in this
moment really is – it`s not a protest, it`s actually a surrender. And so
what I`m – what I`m asking folks to do is get out there and do something
about it. I just left a rally here in Minneapolis in front of the federal
courthouse and I can tell you people are energized, they`re not
They`re looking for things to do. People are running for office and
they`re getting involved. Just the other day, we had the parkland students
here in Minnesota. They`re organizing young people to register to vote.
They`re making sure that the Millennial vote turns out in November and
people stay active throughout the year. That`s what we got to do about it,
Chris. We cannot simply assume that things are going to get better because
they usually do. In this particular case, they may not unless we act now.
HAYES: Do you feel like Democratic leadership is sending a strong message
about what the sort of agenda of the party is in resisting what you
described as a kind of minority managing to sort of exert its power of
majority, how to resist that?
ELLISON: Well, let me tell you. I think that the Democratic Party
leadership has shifted its focus. I mean, right now we`re not only focused
on every four years, we`re focused on every single day. The Democratic
National Committee is thinking about how we can support candidates in
municipal races, state legislative races, school board races, all kind of
races up and down the ballot. And we don`t just do it every four years we
do it every single race and so that is a shift in focus.
We simply cannot have an approach where we raise money from a lot of rich
people and then buy ads every four years. That`s not going to work. We
need to engage people in the every single level. And you mentioned a few
the other cases where there`s one that we`re watching for tomorrow and you
probably are keeping your eye on the Janice case as well. That has a lot
to do with the shape and trajectory of our country as it relates to public
employee unions. So we`re keeping our eyes out, Chris.
HAYES: All right, Congressman Keith Ellison, thank you.
ELLISON: Thank you.
HAYES: My next guest is a long-time Republican strategist who`s worked at
the highest levels of that party who just quit the GOP after almost 30
years over the President`s immigration policy specifically family
separation. In an impassioned tweet storm last week, Steve Schmidt wrote
this independent voter will be aligned with the only party left in America
that stands for what is right and decent and remains fidelitous to our
republic, objective truth, the rule of law and our allies. That party is
the Democratic Party. And MSNBC Contributor Steve Schmidt joins me right
here. Great to have you here.
STEVE SCHMIDT, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Good to see you, Chris.
HAYES: So first I want to talk about that, the kind of breaking point for
you. You know you`ve been a never Trump or that`s been clear. You have –
you know, there`s a group of people that I think have very strong views
about this individual, this president, and his character and then there`s a
question at which point that that becomes true about everyone in league
with him. What was the breaking point there?
SCHMIDT: Well, I had the experience on June the 5th standing on Juno Beach
and spending time in the Canadian cemetery, spending time at Pegasus Bridge
where the British 6th Airborne left in and understanding the value of the
us-led liberal global order that emerged from the aftermath of humanity`s
greatest tragedy which killed 80 million people and left the world in
ruins. That liberal global order is worth defending. This president is an
autocrat. He is not a small d-Democrat. He doesn`t believe in liberal
democracy. And what we`re seeing here every day are five behaviors.
One, he incites fervor in a base through constant lying. Two, he
scapegoats minority populations and he affects his blame for complex
problems to them in them alone. Three, he alleges conspiracies that are
hidden in nefarious and linked to those scapegoated populations. Four, he
spreads a sense of victimizations among those fervent supporters. And
five, he asserts the need to exert heretofore unprecedented power to
protect his victim class from the conspiracies and scapegoated populations.
Through all of history, you understand to totalitarianism, you understand
how democracies fall. You will find those five behaviors. Now the
Republican Party and the Democratic Party, I would argue, and you and I
disagree on many, many things so we are fidelities to liberal democracy.
HAYES: That`s right.
SCHMIDT: Right? That government of the people, by the people, for the
people must continue and the Republican Party has advocated. Conservatism
has become synonymous with obedience to the leader, a leader who says I am
the law, I am above the law. I will define what truth is. Truth is what
the leader says it is not what we would have recognized months ago is
objective truth. And so the Republican Party has become a threat to
liberal democracy and all over the world. We see a regression in Poland,
in Hungary, the rise of far-right ethno-nationalist parties and the last
time this happened it unleashed the tragedy the likes of which the world
has never seen. And I think there`s a real lack of imagination in this
country about how fragile these institutions are and about how dangerous a
president is unprepared, as authoritarian, as ignorant as he the damage
that he would be able to cause.
HAYES: You know, I – that`s incredibly well said and when I think about
this and I think about those behaviors, right, they seem so obvious, right?
I mean, the way this is – and here you have today the court. I mean, this
is what I found so fascinating at the court`s decision today because really
the – if Donald Trump wasn`t Donald Trump and President Marco Rubio on day
one hadn`t said all those things and he puts in this ban, it almost
certainly – it`s not even a question, right? I mean, the question is does
what this guy has said and the bigotry he`s espoused taint in a kind of
unfixable way constitutionally this ban. We all know what it was about.
We all saw it happen in real time. And it`s remarkable maybe that you have
Gorsuch and Roberts who`s someone that I think you`ve worked on his
SCHMIDT: I love the confirmation.
HAYES: Basically doing a kind of sophisticated judicial version of the
Paul Ryan I didn`t read the tweet, right? Because like they all read the
paper, they all know. It`s on the internet the facts of the case.
SCHMIDT: The intent was perfectly clear. This was a religious test. This
was a religious ban. This was what he said it was. We should take him
seriously when he says things. And so this is as un-American of policy as
we have ever seen. We have freedom of religion in this country and this is
also true. This decision harms the national security of this country in a
profound way. The forces of Islamic radicalism, of extremism, are real and
dangerous but the only force that can defeat it is moderate Islam. This
was a gift to the extremists. This was a fulfillment of Bin Laden`s
strategy which was to precipitate a global conflict, a war of civilizations
between the west and between Islam. We don`t want to be at war with a
billion Muslims all over the world in a 21st-century crusade. And so the
stigmatizing of good and decent people and the insult given to the Muslim
soldiers who have served this country, who have sacrificed it is appalling.
HAYES: It also, there`s also a similarity here it strikes me of what`s
happening on the border and here, right? In both cases you`ve got – the
President talks about MS-13 and he talks about ISIS, right? And those are
two groups that are both genuinely evil. There`s no – outside of –
people of MS-13 and people in ISIS, there`s no real supporters of them,
right? Then what he does policy-wise is people fleeing ISIS from Syria and
people fleeing the murders of MS-13 from Guatemala trying to come to this
country who are saying like, yes, they are horrible, please. Those are the
people that end up caught in the gears of his demonization of those groups.
SCHMIDT: When you look at a regression from democracy to something less
than two to an autocracy, but all through history, when you look at
violations of civil liberties, they have always occurred through a prism of
fear, that fear is a contagion, it erodes democratic values and
institutions but always it`s in the name of security that civil liberties
are compromised. And that lesson has been learned through history and here
we are repeating it again. And the moral shame that comes from internment
camps and that`s precisely what they are for toddlers and children who are
stripped away, some of those children stripped away from breastfeeding
mothers it is a shame that will linger, a stench that will linger around
this vile administration and in my view for a century.
HAYES: Is there – I mean, is there a political constituency of voters and
in the country that feel the way you do? I really mean this, like I don`t
know if there is. I mean, there`s Steve Schmidt, there`s Nicole Wallace,
there`s Charlie Sykes, there are people that exist in the world and Brett
Stevens, are there voters out there who look at what`s happening who we`re
saying I`m a Republican and I just can`t abide this. Like, I just don`t
know it as an empirical matter if they exist.
SCHMIDT: I think that there are acts of kindness and decency that take
place every day in this country. And I think about the Las Vegas shooting
where Johnny Smith 33-year-old African-American runs into a hail of gunfire
and he saves 33 people`s lives. He`s running towards a group of school
kids to save them and he`s shot twice in the neck. And then a white cop
runs into the gunfire to save Johnny Smith`s life. That is also America.
You know, the author Alex Haley had a saying, he said find the good and
praise it. Nobody can compete with Donald Trump in a vileness contest.
He`s the most vile.
Nobody can compete with Donald Trump in a dishonesty contest because he`s
the most dishonest. We have to find the good and praise it in this
country. Free-market American capitalism is worth defending in my view.
Liberal democracy is worth defending. The U.S.-led liberal global order
despite all of its flaws, it has secured the peace, it has lifted billions
of people on the planet out of abject poverty into something approaching
prosperity over the last 73 years. All of this is worth defending.
It was architected by giants, conceived by FDR, built by a plain-spoken man
from Independence, Missouri Harry Truman, steward it from John Kennedy to
Ronald Reagan to Barack Obama and the departure from it by this president.
His fetishizing autocrats and dictators from Erdogan to Putin, to President
Xi, it is disturbing. And our allies, the people in the world who we are
connected to by shared history, by shared values are rightly concerned.
But I do believe that the American people don`t want to live in Trump
stand. They want to continue living in America. And this is a fundamental
question in 2018. This is the most important midterm election in American
history because if this is not repudiated in November, this country is
going down a track of not just decline but a fundamental change. They`ll
be very, very, difficult to change the trajectory that we`re on.
HAYES: Steve Schmidt, it`s great to have you here. Thank you very much.
SCHMIDT: Good to see you.
HAYES: After the break, 17 states are now suing the Trump administration
for its family separation policy. Is over 2,000 children separated from
their families still remain in the custody of the U.S. government, the
resistance to that in two minutes.
HAYES: The Department of Health and Human Services today refused to say
whether it was still receiving immigrant children taken from their parents
even as resistance to family separation intensifies. On the call with
reporters, HHS officials did say there are still 2,047 separated children
in their custody. And that is only six fewer than about a week ago.
Although again, we don`t know if new children are coming in. But now 17
states, as well as District Columbia, are suing the administration to force
the government to reunite those families. The Daily Beast reports some
veterans and active-duty troops disapprove of building camps on military
bases to house immigrant children and all of which adding up to hundreds of
planned protests on Saturday across the country including a big march being
planned in Washington D.C.
Karine Jean-Pierre is a Senior Advisor and Spokesperson for moveon.org
which is helping to organize those protests and Sonia Nazario is a Pulitzer
Prize-Winning Journalist, Author of Enrique`s Journey: The Story of a Boy`s
Dangerous Honesty to Reunite with His Mother. That`s a fantastic book.
Sonia, let me start with you. I want to read a new story about what is
happening as the question of family reunification hangs over everyone. The
ACLU says in a filing that the border agent threatened to put an immigrants
daughter up for adoption if she did not essentially sign deportation
papers. We`ve seen other reports from the Texas Tribune about essentially
threats that unless you say you will deport and waive your right to asylum,
we are going to keep you away from your kid, what do you think of that?
SONIA NAZARIO, AUTHOR, ENRIQUE`S JOURNEY: Well, I think it`s horrific. We
are criminalizing people who are coming here and seeking refuge from the
United States. We said after World War II during that war we turn back a
ship with 800 Jews. We did not allow Anne Frank`s family to come to this
country and we were the leaders and saying this would never happen again
and yet here we are doing this with vulnerable children. We shouldn`t be
criminalizing these folks. We should not be using children as bait and
saying we`re only going to give you your child back if – at the airport if
you relinquish all your due process rights to asylum.
There is a difference between an economic migrant, someone coming here for
a better life and someone who is coming here because they are fleeing for
their life and they`re being persecuted in their home countries. I have
spent a lot of time in Central America in the worst neighborhoods. If you
took El Salvador and you took that murder level to New York City, instead
of fewer than 300 murders, you would have more than 5,000 bodies littering
the streets of New York City. I remember an eight-year-old boy in a
neighborhood in Honduras who from the age of eight was harangued by the
gangs. You have to – he would collect cans in his bag to recycle to be
able to eat and he was told from the age of eight, you have to join us.
You must join us.
And ultimately when he was ten years old, they gang-raped him. These are
the options for children in these countries oftentimes. You join the gang
or you flee within 24 hours. You pay the war tax or you flee within 24
hours. Girls are told and I`ve interviewed many girls who say I was
basically told – I`m pretty I was told to be the girlfriend of the gang
leader or they said they would exterminate my whole family. People are
running from harm and we`re not talking about huge numbers. So far in the
first eight months of fiscal 18, we`ve had 59,000 of these families running
from harm, 32,000 unaccompanied children. That fills one football stadium.
For God`s sake, the United States can afford that amount of compassion.
HAYES: Karine, when you think about these are the stakes for these people
and you hear about the President not just the family separation but also
basically saying like he doesn`t want to grant asylum, he doesn`t want an
immigration judge, he wants to get rid of due process. What degree do you
think public pressure matters here and protests like the ones that you guys
are organizing for June 30th that we`ve seen around the country?
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, SENIOR ADVISOR AND SPOKESPERSON, MOVEON.ORG: That`s
the only way we`re going to stop this president and his awful policies, is
by the public pressure, is by standing up and fighting back. And we`ve
seen that in the past week when the President did for the first time back
down just a little bit. Look, Chris, I spent the day at the border. I
joined AFT and religious leaders. We started off in El Paso where we were
in front of the state, in front of the U.S. courthouse where the process
begins for separating kids from their families. Then we travel to Tornillo
in Texas where the detention center is and where kids are sleeping in cages
at night and I learned two things. The first thing is you know what, this
is not a political crisis, this is a moral crisis. This is a humanitarian
And number two, nobody`s talking about civility and who`s left out of a
restaurant or asked to leave at a restaurant. Nobody is talking about
that. They don`t care about that. They want to know what is the U.S.
government – what is the Trump administration doing to reunite these
families, reunite these kids with their parents. That`s what people want
to know. And the thing about it, these are innocent children, Chris,
innocent. There was this one young girl in El Paso right in front of the
U.S. Courthouse who held a sign that said, what did I do wrong? That`s
what she was she was trying to convey to us. What did I do wrong? And
then let`s not forget, these kids are also being traumatized. There was a
story that came out in the news today about a young boy who was ripped
apart from his family, sent to New York, he tried to jump off – jump out
of a two-story building.
This is what`s going on with these kids and we just can`t have that.
There`s such a disconnect right now to what`s happening in Washington DC
and what`s happening right here. No one here is talking about poles,
nobody cares about Donald Trump`s poles, nobody cares about winning or
who`s losing. Nobody cares about votes. They want to know what are we
doing. And this is why, speaking of the activism, this is why I came out
here with AFT and the religious leaders. This is why MoveOn with other
partners are holding this big activism on Saturday. We have 650 events
across the country in 50 states, in 350 House District, congressional
districts, and we`re just not going to stop over 300 – I think actually
400,000 people have signed on.
HAYES: Here`s what I think. There`s – six children have been reunited
with their families in a week according to HHS numbers if they`re not
getting new family separations and I don`t think they are based on the
reporting we have at the border. That`s not fast enough. I mean, that has
to be tracked publicly and there has to be pressure put on that and many
other things but that – understanding where we are with that policy every
day that goes by of the utmost importance. Karine Jean-Pierre, Sonya
Nazario, thank you both for joining me.
PIERRE: Thank you.
NAZARIO: Thanks, Chris.
HAYES: Next, should the left take on tea party tactics? The Democratic
debate on how to handle the Trump era after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, (D) NEW YORK: I strongly disagree with those who
advocate harassing folks if they don`t agree with you. If you disagree
with a politician, organize your fellow citizens to action and vote them
out of office. But no one should call for the harassment of political
opponents, that`s not right, that`s not American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer represents one wing of the
Democratic Party when it comes to confronting Donald Trump. Nancy Pelosi
also in that camp with her call for, quote, “the unity from the sea to
shining sea.” But as we`ve seen the videos of protests and the sorted
of administration officials, the Democratic base, or parts of it at least,
do not seem to be in sync with
Democratic leadership on this question.
As Michelle Goldberg writes in The New York Times today, “there`s an
abusive sort of victim blaming and demanding the progressive single-
handedly uphold civility lest the right become even more uncivil in
response. As long as our rulers wage war on cosmopolitan culture, they
shouldn`t feel entitled to its fruits. If they don`t want to hear from the
angry citizens they`re supposed to serve, let them eat at Trump Grill.”
With me to discuss this is Michelle Goldberg; columnist for The New York
Times, Linda Sarsour, executive director of Empower Change, co-chair of the
women`s march; and Jess McIntosh, executive editor of Share Blue media,
former senior adviser for Hillary Clinton`s 2016 presidential campaign.
I saw that column that you wrote getting shared everywhere and people – it
said something that I think a lot of people were feeling.
MICHELLE GOLDBERG, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I think a lot of people feel
sort of harassed because this false equivalency that has dominated so much
of the coverage of the Trump administration that basically equates an actor
saying a bad word with white nationalists marching around with machine guns
on their – or semi-automatic assault weapons on their back and says, oh,
look, both sides are participating in the death of civility is maddening to
And it`s also maddening to people to constantly be told to worry about not
just kind of their own
actions, and the results of their own actions, but then how will their
actions influence some imaginary Trump voter who they`re trying to win over
in the midterms.
I think people can`t live like that. They can`t live in this way in which
we`re constantly overly solicitous of the feelings of these, you know, of
these alienated white people and contemptuous of the feelings of the
majority of the people who find this administration intolerable.
HAYES: There`s also the strategic – there`s also way in which people
conflate a lot of stuff. Like, something can be morally compelled and also
like not great politics. Like it could be the case that like you are –
like history will look kindly on you if you stand up for integration in
Mississippi in 1956, and you will be voted out of office. Like those two
things don`t always have to go together.
JESS MCINTOSH, SHAREBLUE: First off, civil disobedience is very American.
That is a very American thing to do.
HAYES: Let me stop you there, though, do you think this idea of sort of
like getting someone`s face in a restaurant or heckling them, do you count
that as civil disobedience?
MCINTOSH: I do. I think civil disobedience is any civilian who is acting
within their own daily life trying to gum up of the works of our slide into
authoritarianism. And I think that that is a good thing.
I think we saw – I mean, the Trump administration has been a racist
disaster since the very beginning, the campaign was before that, but in the
last couple of weeks, we have seen a dramatic turn. We have move down the
steps of a slide into authoritarianism.
And it`s not going to get better, because that`s how this works. For as
long as they are in power and allowed to do what they`re doing, this is
only going to get worse. And that means we have to abandon normal channels
and take what we can get.
HAYES: OK, well, but then the question becomes – and I want to get to you
in a second, but for the question becomes – and I want you to answer this
too, Linda, because you`re doing a lot of organizing. It`s like there`s a
little bit of – if god is dead, everything is permitted about that
formulation, right, which is like well if we`re sliding into
authoritarianism like, well, then you can do anything. And like that can
be super dangerous. We are a country that – where a lot of people have
guns. We have seen political violence. A guy tried to murder Steve
Scalise. Like, there is concern about…
MCINTOSH: 10-and-a-half months ago, Heather Heyer got run over by a Nazi.
HAYES: Exactly. And there is concern that like…
MCINTOSH: That`s why I`m talking about civil obedience. And I think it is
very important that we do everything we can to make it uncomfortable for
those who are enabling authoritarianism within our country. I think we owe
that to the people that we love in the communities that we`ve built and to
the people in the future who ask what we did to try to stop this.
LINDA SARSOUR, EMPOWER CHANGE: I`m an organizer and activist. I engage in
civil disobedience like 20 times a year. In fact, the Women`s March and
our partners are organizing the largest women`s civil disobedience this
Thursday about ending family separation and ending family detention.
And Dr. Martin Luther King warned us about people like Chuck Schumer. He
said it wasn`t the Ku Klux Klan and the White Citizen Councilors who were
the obstacles toward justice, it was the people calling for, quote,
civility, and people that were telling us when to protest, at what time,
and how to protest.
And I need to let people know that what – when we talk about civility, it
is not civil to rip babies from their mothers. It is not civil to break up
Muslim families. It is not civil to take away health care from millions
So you want to talk to me about civility, let`s make sure that we`re
engaging in justice, ensuring
that every American has access to things like health care and housing, that
there is no poverty in America, and that children are with their mothers.
And I was at the airport yesterday, LaGuardia Airport, and I recorded a
video of children, I`m talking between the ages 5 to 8 that were being –
that came off a United Airlines flight who were unaccompanied minors. And
I am distraught that we live in a country talking about civility, but we
don`t see the same outrage about these kids being stripped from their
HAYES: Let me ask you this, too, because I think there`s a little bit of a
difference tempermentally between the right and the left and like…
HAYES: Well, I mean, you see it in the people chanting lock her up at
Trump rallies, like there is not really an equivalent of that. There just
isn`t right now in terms of the cultures of these two. And people have
forgotten what the Tea Party revolt looked like, which a lot of people
found alienated and thought would be bad politics. This is just like one
at random, this is Kathy Castro who is a Democrat
in Florida, take a listen what it was like at her town halls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: You work for us. You work for us. You`re our voice. Hear our
voice. Hear our voice. Hear our voice. Hear our voice. Hear our voice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Now, that was effective. But there`s also an argument – Theda
Skocpol makes it, and she`s been writing about this in interesting ways and
doing field work, that – she said this is not a
leftist Tea Party – writing about sort of resistance activism – because
newly engaged suburban activists
hail from across the broad ideological range from center to left. The
foundation rebuilders in many communities across most states are newly
mobilized interconnected grassroots groups led for the most part by middle
America`s mothers and grandmothers.
GOLDBERG: Right, and so – I think that we need to be clear what we`re
talking about. Because I actually don`t even think that anybody on the
left is getting to that level of harassment that was typical of the Tea
I mean, right, Sarah Sanders was politely asked to leave the Red Hen and
had her cheese plate comped. I mean, we`re not talking about the sort of
like apocalyptic civil war threatening insurrectionary rhetoric that is the
bread and butter of the right, we`re simply talking about saying that if
you are a member of a white nationalist organization, we`re going to
ostrasize you as such.
And – so I`ve met some of the same women that Theda Skocpol writes about.
I was recently in Pennsylvania. And I don`t necessarily – I think that
they do care a lot about norms and decency. I mean, absolutely. But I
think they are also terrified and outraged by what is going on in this
country and are looking for leaders who will speak to that level of
They don`t want to see Chuck Schumer going on about gas prices and how it`s
not – they want to see people who are as outraged as they are.
MCINTOSH: I think the prime directive for most of the left is let`s make
things better for other
people, like that`s why we go into the social safety net and we spend all
this time on politics, that`s what we go for. The prime directive for the
right right now is literally to make liberals angry, like that is – like
owning the libs is what they say their win is. So, of course, you`re
seeing tempermental differences in there.
They scream in your face and then call you a snowflake when you suggest
that they keep it down and then lecture us about civility.
HAYES: Michelle Goldberg, Linda Sarsour, who just came from a protest
today, and Jess
McIntosh, thank you all.
Still ahead, does Senator Cory Booker think it`s time for a Democratic Tea
Party? He joins me to talk mid-terms and more ahead, and why the president
is worried about the aura of Harley-Davidson. That`s tonight`s Thing One,
Thing Two next.
HAYES: Thing One tonight, Harley-Davidson is an iconic American brand.
And what`s not to love? It`s pure muffler rattling red-blooded American
toughness, classic all-American cool. And so it`s no wonder Republicans
have been falling all over themselves to be associated with that brand long
before Donald Trump ever heard of one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United
RONALD REAGAON, 40TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES; After being shown
around this plant, it seems to me I`ve come to hog heaven.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Get it, Hogs, hog heaven?
It seems every Republican wants to be seen with a Harley, even if it wasn`t
actually moving. Just visiting the Harleys can help with your red-blooded
American image. Failed candidate Mitt Romney got a Harley-Davidson escort
in Ohio – well, actually his campaign bus got an escort.
Four years later, Mike Pence one-upped him and as vice presidential
candidate rode a Harley across the state of Indiana.
In 2016, Bikers for Trump became a thing. I talked to a few actually at
the convention, and so when Trump became president, Harley-Davidson got an
early invitation to visit the White House.
But now, like everyone else who falls out of favor with Donald Trump,
Harley is the enemy. And the question is, will the Bikers for Trump choose
their Harleys or their Trump? That`s Thing Two in 60 seconds.
HAYES: So, after President Trump revved up his trade war and Harley-
Davidson said it was moving some of its production overseas, because of the
EU`s retaliatory tariffs, President Trump is now
at war with the iconic American motorcycle company. “Surprised that
Harley-Davidson, of all companies, would be the first to wave the white
flag. Harley-Davidson should never be built in another country, never.
Their employees and customers are already very angry at them. If they
move, watch, it will be the beginning of the end. They surrendered. They
quit. The aura” capital A, of course, “will be gone and they will be taxed
like never before.”
How this will go over with the Bikers for Trump remains to be seen, but
threatening sky high
taxes out of vengeance takes it to a new level. That would be
unconstitutional We all know how much this president cares about the
American ideals of – oh, never mind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No ride, Mr. President
TRUMP: Boy, would you like to see me fall off one. Would that be a story?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If a horrible thing happened and we weren`t lucky enough to have
Henry Nguyen, you know they wouldn`t talk about it, they would say Donald
Trump suffered a major, major defeat in the great state of South Carolina.
It was a humiliating defeat from Donald Trump, so please get your asses out
tomorrow and vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: It is another election night in America with primaries in seven
states, including South Carolina, where Donald Trump is hoping to avoid
that humiliating defeat, a candidate he campaigned for, sitting governor
Henry McMaster, is now in a runoff to become the GOP`s gubernatorial
nominee against challenger John Warren.
Trump is also hopeing to avoid humiliation in New York`s 11th congressional
district on Staten Islane where he endorsed sitting representative Dan
Donovan, who the GOP sees as its strongest candidate, in a seat Democrats
view as a prime pick-up opportunity.
But everyone knows that the Trumpiest candidate in the race is Donovan`s
challenger, former Congressman Michael Grimm who recently served time in
prison for tax evasion and infamously threatened a reporter back in 2014.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL GRIMM, FRM. REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN: Let me be very clear to you.
If you ever do that to me again, I`ll throw you off the (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
balcony. No, no, you`re not man enough, you not man enough. I`ll break
you in half like a boy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Very civil. Like a boy. MSNBC will be monitoring that race and
the returns from across the country tonight, so stay with us for that.
Coming up, Senator Cory Booker on his trip to the border and how Democrats
should resist Trump in 2018. That`s next.
HAYES: Senator Cory Booker returned yesterday from McAllen, Texas where he
crossed back and forth into Mexico to see firsthand how our government is
turning away asylum seekers without giving them a hearing. Booker also
spoke out this morning against the Supreme Court decision, affirming
Trump`s travel ban, arguing both issues have the nation now facing a quote,
And joining me now for more on that and how to resist Trump in 2018,
Senator Cory Booker, Democrat of New Jersey.
Senator, let`s start about your trip to the border and specifically that
issue you mentioned, which I think is important and adjacent to the family
– the child separation, which is American officials turning people away at
ports of entry from asylum. What do you think is happening?
SEN. CORY BOOKER, (D) NEW JERSEY: First of all, you know this calls to the
darker chapters of our country where there was a group of – a famous ship
coming from – people escaping the holocaust – got to the United States,
were turned back around, back to Europe where many of them were killed.
These are folks who are escaping extreme violence. They come to, as I saw
in one of our bridges and are told it cannot enter, because we don`t have
quote, unquote, the space for them.
And so this is the challenge. We have people who come to these bridges –
when I went into Mexico to turn around, the Mexican official that was there
told me, please don`t go into the city, it`s very dangerous for you walking
there on foot. And here I am this big guy from Newark, and yet they`re
turning women with children, small babies back into that enviornment.
And so I`m already talking to Customs and Border Patrol about this practice
and how it does not reflect our values, nor does it reflect the law. When
we tell people if they come to this country – and we hear the president
calling folks illegals – here are folks showing up ready to go through the
legal process of seeking asylum and they`re being turned away, often into
conditions that aren`t hospitable, and for me it gives some responsibility
for safety and security when we push them out of our country.
We need to increase the capacity for us to hold people seeking asylum and
to process people seeking asylum. We need to end that process of Customs
and Border Patrol going out on to the border away from the other side of
the bridge where people are often being processed to try to turn people
away before they even get to our country.
HAYES: We are now on another primary night. There is a bunch of races in
seven states across the country. There is sort of a lot of people, I
think, thinking about the midterms in the wake of what`s been happening,
particularly family separation in the Supreme Court today.
And there`s one argument that goes that the White House thinks that when
they`re talking about immigration, they`re winning. When you`re talking
about, you know, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, you`re winning because it`s
ginning up their base. What is your read about the politics at this
BOOKER: Well, I guess there are two things. I do agree that when we`re
talking about Sarah Huckabee Sanders, when we`re talking about the coat
that Melania wore, we`re taking away focus on what`s happening right now.
Jeff Sessions working to undermine the protections Americans have against
being denied insurance, because of a preexisting condition. That is being
eroded, ended as
we speak, and yet we seem to be talking about things that often distract us
from really important things
that both Republicans and Democrats agree upon.
And so I`m trying to, in my energy, trying to keep people focused on the
things that matter. But I do not want major moral moments like ripping
away families. I don`t care if there`s a Democrat talking about
immigration reform or not it`s going to help us in a November election or
help us in a 2020 election. There`s got to be a time where we don`t ask if
it`s politic. I don`t know if folks who
protested the Vietnam War, whether it was Muhammad Ali or Martin Luther
King stopped to think is this politic. They did it because it was the
right thing to do.
And this has got to be a time where we stand up and do what is right. Our
country has a president who is engaging in moral vandalism, whether it is
the way he talks about Muslims and the roots of what happened in the
Supreme Court today are bigotry against Muslim people, or what`s happening
at the border. This is a violation of our values. We shouldn`t wait to
see how this plays out in polling, we should do the right thing and stand
up for who we are as a nation.
HAYES: All right, Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, it`s always a
pleasure to have you. Thank you for being with me tonight. I appreciate
BOOKER: Thank you very much.
HAYES: All right, before we go, I want to let you know, we have a new
episode out of our podcast called Why is This Happening with Vox edito at
large Ezra Klein. And talk a lot about where we are at this moment in
American politics. How bad is it, is the question we keep asking each
other. It`s a really interesting conversation. Find it whereever you get
That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now.
Good evening, Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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