Transcript 12/8/17 All In with Chris Hayes
Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
Date: December 8, 2017
Guest: Barbara Lee, Evan McMullen, Kurt Bardella, David Cicilline, Naveed Jamali
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on ALL IN.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let me just tell you, Roy
Moore denies it.
HAYES: Donald Trump and Roy Moore joined forces.
TRUMP: By the way, he gives a total denial.
HAYES: Tonight, the President hits the stump and tells Alabama to vote for
Roy Moore. Then the Trent Franks mystery is solved.
REP. TRENT FRANKS (R), ARIZONA: I`m going to make a statement.
HAYES: New reporting that the Congressman offered an aide $5 million to
carry his child.
Plus, what we`re learning from Hope Hicks marathon meeting with the Mueller
team, including an FBI warning about a Russian contact. And the plot to
stop Mueller is growing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would it take to get rid of a Special Counsel?
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes. At the end of a week
in which no fewer than three members of Congress, as of now, have resigned
over sexual harassment and unwanted touching, the President of the United
States, a man who faces multiple accusations of sexual misconduct is
working to help a Senate candidate how himself faces multiple accusations
of sexual misconduct including with an underage girl. President Trump to
appear at any moment in a campaign rally in Pensacola, Florida, a city that
just happens to be less than 20 miles from the border of Alabama. And
while the event isn`t explicitly designed to boost alleged child molester
Roy Moore ahead of next Tuesday`s Alabama Senate Election, well, it`s
pretty clear what is going on here.
A Moore campaign official told NBC News they were “actively encouraging
supporters to attend the Trump rally.” And Trump today once again told his
Twitter followers to vote Roy Moore. Again, these are two men who have
each been accused by multiple women of inappropriate behavior. And while
the White House insists the charges against Trump were settled by the
results of the election, they keep on coming. A new allegation tonight
from a former Fox News Anchor who says Trump tried to kiss her in an
elevator around the time he married First Lady Melania. Nine women have
come forward with stories about Moore including Leigh Corfman who said
Moore molested her when she was 14 after picking her up outside a child
custody hearing in the court where he worked. And Beverly Young Nelson who
said Moore attempted to sexually assault her in his car when she was 16
after her shift as a waitress.
Many of the accounts have been corroborated by friends and family who were
told about Moore`s actions at the time. Moore`s signature appears in
messages he wrote to two of the women when they were teenagers and multiple
sources say he was banned from a mall for his predatory behavior towards
young women. Moore claims all the women are lying, that the evidence is
fake, that he is a victim of that conspiracy. He has also changed his
story, it is important to note. Asked about accuser, Debbie Gibson, who
said she dated Moore consensually she says when she was 17 and he was 34.
Moore first said, I knew her as a friend. If we did go on dates, then we
did. He later claimed, “I do not know any of these women, did not date any
of these women.” A new ad from the Stand Up Republic, a group co-founded
by my upcoming guest Evan McMullen asked voters to imagine if Moore had
targeted their child.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What if she was your little girl, your daughter, your
sister? What if she was 16 years old or 15 or even 14? Would you let a
32-year-old man be alone with her, date her, undress her, touch her, have
her touch him? That`s what Roy Moore did. He called it dating. We call
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: It`s crucial to remember that even before all these allegations
emerge, Roy Moore was manifestly unfit to serve in the U.S. Senate. A man
who said homosexuality should be illegal. That Muslim should not be
allowed to serve in Congress in direct violation of the Constitution. He
was twice removed from the Alabama Supreme Court by fellow Republicans, one
should note, for putting his religious views before the rule of law. And
at a campaign rally in September, he suggested America was last great when
we had slavery.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ROY MOORE, GOP SENATE CANDIDATE, ALABAMA: I think it was great at the time
when families were united, even though we had slavery, they cared for one
another. People were strong in the families.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HAYES: Even though we had slavery. In August, Moore was asked about
comments Ronald Reagan made about Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said Russia was the focus of evil in the modern
MOORE: Could say that very well about America, couldn`t you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think so?
MOORE: Well, we promote a lot of bad things, you know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like?
MOORE: Same-sex marriage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the very argument that Vladimir Putin makes.
MOORE: Well, then maybe Putin is right. Maybe he`s more akin to me than I
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The choice to support or reject Moore has become a moral test of
sorts in Republican Party and while a handful of Republicans have indeed
rejected Moore, the Party`s most powerful person, who`s the standard bearer
is all in. Moore has been fully embraced by President Trump, who, like
Moore, says all his accusers are liars and who claims, in Trump`s case,
they are too unattractive for him to sexually assault. Joining me now,
Democratic Congressman Barbara Lee of California, former Chair of the
Congressional Black Caucus. Your reaction to the President going to
essentially rally for this man, at this moment.
REP. BARBARA LEE (D), CALIFORNIA: Chris, I`m glad to be with you. And
it`s very clear to me, and I hope it`s clear to the public, that Donald
Trump and this man, Mr. Moore, their agenda is the same. When Donald Trump
campaigned for the presidency, he campaigned on the birther movement,
delegitimizing – trying to delegitimize the first African-American
President. He campaigned with an agenda that Steve Bannon put forward by
the alt-right, the white supremacists, and white nationalists. When you
look at Roy Moore and what he stands for and what he has said, very
similar. I mean, their agendas are the same. So it doesn`t really
surprise me that he`s down there campaigning and supporting him. But I`m
really very confident that people of conscience and the voters really will
see both Donald Trump and Roy Moore for who they are and make sure that
this man does not come to the United States Senate.
HAYES: Yes, to Moore`s – to your point about Moore`s record particularly
on the issues of race (INAUDIBLE) that he was someone who has gotten
support from confederates of sort of Confederate nostalgics. He has also
opposed removing segregation of language from the U.S. Constitution. These
are some of the fliers that are going out to voters down there. Roy Moore
fought to keep racism enshrined in Alabama with the water fountains there
on the right. And George Wallace fought to protect segregation, so did Roy
Moore. How important, I mean, you know, obviously, you are a Democrat, Roy
Moore is a Republican. You would oppose any Republican that is running for
that seat, but how important is preventing him from coming to work with you
in the U.S. Capitol, in your mind?
LEE: It`s very important for the country because anyone who has campaigned
on racism and bigotry, anyone with a history of trying to deny African-
Americans and people of color, equal opportunities, anyone who comes to the
United States Senate will continue with this agenda and this is Donald
Trump`s agenda. And so, what will he do in the United States Senate? Of
course, he will vote for policy that would begin to roll back the tide and
roll back policies to the days of Jim Crow and before. And 1he would begin
to really move forward on Donald Trump`s agenda in a very aggressive way.
And so it`s very dangerous Chris for this man to be in the Senate.
HAYES: Congresswoman, I want to – I want to get your reaction to another
figure I sort of think of in some ways as the same category as Roy Moore.
He`s a man whom you do serve with. Steve King is a Congressman from Iowa,
who I don`t think it`s unfair to characterize extremist in his views on
immigration and views on race, frankly. He said this, today. “Diversity
is not our strength.” Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. He`s quoting
Victor Orban there. “Mixing cultures will not lead to a higher quality of
life by a lower one. He later sort of clarified that he was talking about
assimilation. Do you think you`re serving with a white nationalist in the
person of Steve King?
LEE: Not only Steve King, there are many in the Congress and in the white
– and of course in the White House who are white nationalists, who reflect
the agenda of white supremacists. Just look at what Steve King said. I
mean, look at his stance on immigrants. This is a country built on
welcoming immigrants. And you have Steve King and you have others in the
Congress, in the House and the Senate who are – who are trying to really
make this country as Donald Trump wants to make it back to where I don`t
want to even go in terms of the day – the dark days of slavery and Jim
Crow and when people were in slaves and in chains.
HAYES: Do you want to name House Republicans that you feel are in that
LEE: Well, no, there are many of them. But I think what you need to do is
look at their agenda and how they vote. Look at how they vote and where
they stand on the voting rights act. Look where they stand in terms of the
new drug war that Jeff Sessions put forth. Look at where they stand in
terms of the Affordable Care Act and on policies that will really hurt
people of color and low-income people. When you look at their policies and
budget priorities, it`s very clear who they are.
HAYES: All right Congresswoman Barbara Lee. Thanks for being with me.
With me now, 2016 Independent Presidential Candidate and one time
Republican Evan McMullin who`s group Stand Up Republic is spending $500,
000 on ads opposing Roy Moore and former Breitbart Spokesperson Kurt
Bardella, longtime Republican and just wrote an op-ed published today that
Roy Moore is the last straw, you can now call me a Democrat. And Kurt,
I`ll start with you. Why?
KURT BARDELLA, FORMER BREITBART SPOKESPERSON: You know, what`s going on in
Alabama right now is really the embodiment of everything wrong with
Republican Party. Just how morally bankrupt they become. When it gets to
a point where they would rather put in office a known child sex predator
who preyed on teenagers at the local mall, who`s an open racist,
homophobic, sexist, they would rather put this guy in office than a crime-
fighting prosecutor Doug Jones who happens to be a Democrat. The Party has
gone too far. The RNC is funneling money to him. Donald Trump is
campaigning for him tonight at a rally and Republicans are by and large
silent on this.
HAYES: How – do you see the stakes in the same way?
EVAN MCMULLEN, FORMER INDEPENDENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do. I think
that this is a huge and should be easy test for the Republican Party. They
have to go all in on defeating Roy Moore, and instead, they nominated him.
And that`s a state decision, state party –
HAYES: The voters did. I mean, if it had been up to the National
Republican Party, it would not have been him.
MCMULLEN: Right, but could they have done more? You know, and now you
have the RNC putting money into that race. Now, it`s just a little of
money. It also sends the message that the party isn`t exactly doing
everything they can for him. But they`re not doing everything they can
against him, either. It`s that wishy-washiness I think that leads in part
to where we are right now and where the party is, where it`s looking into I
believe an abyss of political irrelevance. And it`s thinking that it can
take a step more towards it, a step towards that extremism on the far right
to try to leverage it for a stronger majority or continued majority in
Congress. But every time they inch closer to it, they get closer to
slipping into it. And I think that if Roy Moore is elected, they are going
to slide right into it and they are going to wear him like a scarlet letter
around their necks for – and I actually think that it will be – it will
be a dagger into the heart of the party.
HAYES: I want to ask you, Kurt, you worked at Breitbart, and then you
resigned from Breitbart. And they have been a big supporter of Moore`s.
Steve Bannon is bit of a supporter of Moore. And there`s a whole
architecture that exists around this ideologically that sort of allow
people to believe there`s a vast conspiracy involving (INAUDIBLE) from the
Washington Post to fabricate these accusers. It`s preposterous on its
face. Today, they ran a headline about Beverly Young Nelson who`s the
woman there. The bombshell Roy Moore accuser Beverly Nelson admits she
forged the yearbook. Now that`s entirely untrue. What she did say was
that she put the date next to Roy Moore`s signature. But how important is
it having that kind of ideological mouthpiece doing that kind of work?
BARDELLA: It`s really become crucial. And when Steve Bannon declared
Breitbart is the mouthpiece for the alt-right. And what happened over time
was for the first time, you have this congregating platform where all the
people who will subscribe to these insane beliefs could congregate every
day, feed off the one another, share their stories, comments. I mean, look
at the comment pages of Breitbart. It`s some pretty scary and extreme
stuff but allowed them to really harness around one another, amplify their
voice and Steve Bannon really tapped into that and turned that into a
political action committee. Breitbart isn`t a news network, it`s a
political action propaganda vehicle.
HAYES: All right. So I`m going to give you the argument that I`ve
actually heard from Republicans and even some Alabama folks I`ve talked to,
I`ve sort of been in correspondence with.
HAYES: Roy Moore is a terrible scoundrel. I believe the women, what he
did was despicable. But you know what, politics isn`t bean bag. It`s a
two-vote majority in the United States Senate and losing that majority or
reducing it by one could mean we don`t get the justice we need on the
Supreme Court to overturn Roe V. Wade. The greater good is to stop the
slaughter of innocent unborn. And so, the ends justify the means.
MCMULLEN: I think the problem with that is the idea it will either be
somebody as terrible as Roy Moore in getting those things or it will be
somebody better and you won`t get those things. The problem when you
decide that OK, we`re going to accept somebody as terrible as Roy Moore and
we`re going to get those things and you`re OK with that, ultimately you get
to a place as you described you`re OK with it for those reasons. You end
up – you keep getting those kind of people over and over again.
MCMULLEN: And you keep–
HAYES: You incentivize it. You create – you sort of create a new kind of
MCMULLEN: That`s right. Now, the reality is we have to draw a line as
Americans, but especially the Republican Party and Conservatives have to
get to the point very, very quickly here with Donald Trump in the White
House and Moore, potentially on the way to the Senate, if we can`t stop it.
They have got to break the cycle and start voting their values – core
American values or they`ll get more of the same, the party will become
politically irrelevant, politically impotent.
HAYES: There`s a really perverse dynamic that`s emerged in the wake of
this last two – these last two weeks with Al Franken, and then with Trent
Franks and with John Conyers in which if you admit to what you are accused
of, then you`re going to face some consequences. But if you just flat out
deny and call the women liars as the President of the United States has
done and as Roy Moore has done, Kurt, then maybe you can get away with it.
This is an actual thing, a new – there`s an e-mail from a pro-Moore super
PAC that says Al Franken has proven Roy Moore is innocent. These abusers
don`t stop, it`s a way of life, that`s what they all have been forced to
admit their misdeeds. You did verify a recent evidence as if Al Franken
somehow shows that Roy Moore didn`t do what he was accused of.
BARDELLA: And therein lies Chris, really one of the major issues I
personally have with the Republican Party which is the complete destruction
of truth and fact. And the idea that at the highest level of our entire
government, our political institution, it`s now standard operating
procedure to lie, to attack those who have become victims of what you have
perpetrated upon them and to completely wash it over in hopes that over
time, you can repeat it enough that it will just become fact. You can make
up your own reality and completely dismiss what your entire pass and
actions have without any consequences. And it`s ironic that Al Franken
said, as he resigned, here he is, he`s taking responsibility, he`s
accepting a consequence while the President of the United States, who
arguably has committed more sexual harassment than anybody who has resigned
from his offer so far is the President thriving and refuses to accept or
HAYES: All right, Evan McMullen and Kurt Bardella, thank you both for
being with me tonight.
Up next, the incredible story behind the sudden and immediate resignation
of Republican Trent Franks, including a $5 million offer to his female
staffer. What it was for is after this two-minute break.
HAYES: Trent Franks, a prominent member of the Freedom Caucus and the
extremely hard edge religious conservative said yesterday that he would be
resigning from Congress at the end of January after an ethics investigation
into his, “discussion of surrogacy with two previous female subordinates.”
Today, he suddenly changed his mind and resigned effective immediately. It
was a puzzling turn of events for about half an hour and then two big news
stories dropped about the surrogacy discussion and it all became clear.
First, the AP reported that a former aide to Franks said, the Congressman
repeatedly pressed her to carry his child at one point offering her $5
million to act as a surrogate. The former staffer said the Congressman
asked at least four times if she`d be willing to act as a surrogate in
exchange for money. And Politico reported that not only had Franks
approached two female staffers about acting as a potential surrogate for
him and his wife, but it was not clear to the women whether he was asking
about impregnating them through sexual intercourse or in vitro
fertilization. Joan Walsh, MSNBC Political Analyst, National Affairs
Correspondent for The Nation joins me now.
JOAN WALSH, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Thanks, Chris. Thanks for having me
to talk about this.
HAYES: Well, this is a new one.
WALSH: It`s very new. Yes. I mean, maybe the worst thing about it was
this afternoon when he said he was resigning because his wife as a medical
condition. The poor wife. He brings the wife into this. She has a
medical condition. It`s called Trent Franks is my husband. So –
HAYES: Well, and there was the sense, you know, yesterday was like, all of
a sudden, out of nowhere, Trent Franks says I`m resigning because I had
this discussion of surrogacy and everyone was kind of like, well, that`s a
little weird. But then – but you know, resignation were the – and then
there was Paul Ryan release a statement saying, we got this information, I
asked him to resign. This puts that in a different light.
WALSH: Well, it does. And it was interesting though. Right away, my
friends who cover the Christian right had the story. I mean, they didn`t
write the story because they didn`t have the details but it was like he is
you know, conservative Christian, in vitro fertilization is wrong,
artificial insemination is also wrong. There`s a danger of creating
fertilized eggs that then get destroyed. And so people were like, this is
probably what he was getting at.
HAYES: Oh really. You –
WALSH: Right away, last night, drive – riding home from here, I had a
friend who said that who covers the –
HAYES: And then today he had this long statement explaining a very long
sort of statement explaining about how the fact that the first in vitro
fertilization he did was done in ways that are essentially pro-life
WALSH: Didn`t destroy embryos, right. And so, I don`t – then that raises
the questions about that surrogacy – well whatever, I`m not going to go
there, how they came up with a biblically acceptable way of doing that.
But yes, it`s pretty creepy. And again, you know, I believe these women.
And this is a new one.
HAYES: I also wonder like this is someone who, it`s a little bit like Roy
Moore and that – this is someone who is extreme –
WALSH: One of the most.
HAYES: – Christian conservative, one of the sort of most sort of
intolerant. He talked about gay marriage being the greatest threat to
American civilization, greater than any enemy.
WALSH: Hugely anti-choice.
HAYES: Yes. There`s, of course – a lot of people today making handmade
HAYES: For obvious reasons but there is a sort of bizarre connection
between his ideological commitments and what he appears to have done.
WALSH: Yes, I mean, but I can`t figure out which was – what was driving
what because –
HAYES: That`s a fair point.
WALSH: – clearly trying to with at least one of the woman, she took a –
he wanted her to take a quiz to show that she was in love with him. So
there was definitely something sexual going on. It wasn`t just we have to
do it this way because God says. It`s doubly creepy to me from what`s come
out this afternoon.
HAYES: What do you make of this week and that we`ve now – this is Trent
Frank – and this is amazing, three members of Congress stepped down this
HAYES: And it almost feels like ceased story. I mean, it`s a big story
but you got a U.S. Senator Al Franken, and you have the longest-running
member of the House John Conyers, and then you got Trent Frank who`s a
fairly powerful Republican.
WALSH: He`s been there a long time.
HAYES: He`s been there a while and he`s got you know, he`s got some juice.
It`s pretty head snapping.
WALSH: It is head snapping. Although, as you know, you know, I just –
I`m so uncomfortable putting them in the same basket and you are not doing
HAYES: They were accused of doing very, very different things.
WALSH: Very, very different things. And you know, Senator Franken I think
is suffering disproportionately, considering these comparisons you know.
HAYES: I guess my question to you though is do you think there`s going to
– that a standard has been set now where we are going to be doing three a
WALSH: Maybe. I mean, I`m not going to say any names on air, but I think
there are new revelations out tonight. And you know, The Washington Post
and CNN, people have said – are investigating 20-40 Congress members. I
assume, I can say Congressmen, but maybe not. So you know, we might.
HAYES: Safe assumption, I think.
WALSH: I`m just trying to be – I`m just trying to be kind.
HAYES: That`s yes. You can (INAUDIBLE) but I think— right.
WALSH: Keep an open mind.
HAYES: Yes, I should say that I believe the Hill is reporting tonight that
Congressman Alcee Hastings of Florida, an interesting case. He was
previously impeached for bribery when he was a federal judge by a
Democratic congressman. He ran for Congress and was elected. $220
settlement for the woman who accused him of harassment, so –
WALSH: It`s going to continue. We are going to be talking about this,
unfortunately, many more times I think.
HAYES: I imagine we`re also going to learn some more about Trent Franks.
This is not the end of the Trent Frank story. Joan Walsh, thanks for
WALSH: Thanks, Chris.
HAYES: Ahead, the intensifying campaign to discredit Robert Mueller has
gone from cable news to the halls of Congress. The far reaches of a new
conspiracy theory after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: Can anyone explain to me, anybody at
all, how Robert Mueller`s investigation can be described as fair,
impartial, not biased. A lot of questions John, being raised about OK,
this team that literally has covered for Hillary Clinton and put all these
bias people going after Donald Trump, you know, what would it take to get
rid of a Special Counsel?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: What (AUDIO GAP). Now, the closer the Special Counsel gets to the
President, the more his allies at Trump T.V. are promoting the theory that
senior officials at the Department of Justice and the FBI conspired to help
Hillary Clinton and hurt Donald Trump. Now, according to this theory which
is presented for hours on end every night, it was a secret project that
began way back to the Clinton e-mail probe, continuing into the Russia
investigation. Now, it`s tough to buy for a number of reasons, not at
least of which is at the two officials overseeing those investigations.
James Comey first and then Robert Mueller are both Republicans, lifelong
ones. And if the FBI had been in the tank for Hillary Clinton, well, they
could have done a lot more and try to help her win.
For example, they could have leaked the fact that they have an open
investigation of Donald Trump`s campaign Manager Paul Manafort during the
election or that they had gotten a FISA warrant to surveil his Foreign
Policy Adviser Carter Paige during the campaign. Based on the probable
cause that Paige was a foreign agent, none of that leaked, however.
Instead, someone fed a bogus story to the New York Times which reported in
a seeming definitive fashion the FBI found no clear links between the Trump
campaign and Russia. That has not held up too well. The FBI could have
sounded the alarm much earlier and more vehemently about Russia`s
responsibility for the anti-Clinton hacks, instead of dragging its feet on
the official statement blaming Russia, one that was eventually released by
the U.S. government.
And yet, despite all that, this FBI conspiracy theory that they were in the
tank for Hillary is now, amazingly, being used as a weapon against the
Russia investigation, laying the groundwork either to get Mueller fired or
to dismiss the ultimate outcome of his probe. And it has now traveled from
Trump T.V. to a few extremist Congressmen, to senior members of the U.S.
Senate, including one-time Trump critic, Lindsey Graham. You remember him
from calling the President a cook. This morning, Graham tweeted “it`s long
past time for a special counsel to investigate Clinton e-mail scandal,
Uranium One, roll fusion GPS and FBI and DOJ bias during the 2016 campaign.
The next steps and the plot to stop Robert Mueller right after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DON DESANTIS, (R) FLORIDA: We have a question about how about this
dossier was generated for political purposes, it ended up in the FBI`s
possession. What did the FBI do with it?
REP. MATT GAETZ, (R) FLORIDA: So, we don`t know whether Mr. Mueller
recruited people as a consequence of their bias. We don`t know whether
Hillary Clinton was treated as special. We don`t know whether the FBI used
taxpayer money to go and buy a dossier to discredit the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Fresh off their performance yesterday at the hearing of the House
Judiciary Committee with FBI director Christopher Wray, Florida Congressman
Ron Desantis and Matt Gaetz got a very special treat: a ride on Air Force
One to Pensacola where the president tonight is holding a campaign rally
that just so happens to be taking place right across the border from
Alabama. They have got a little special election coming up there. You
might have heard about it.
Desantis and Gaetz and both proponents of the conspiracy theory that the
FBI and the Justice Department are carrying out a political vendetta
against the president. And next week they`ll they will get a shot at
attacking those institutions when Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein,
who has oversight of the Russia probe, appears before a House Judiciary.
I`m joined now by a Democratic member of the House Judiciary Committee,
congressman David Cicilline of Rhode Island. It`s nice to have you here.
REP. DAVID CICILLINE, (D) RHODE ISLAND: Great to be here.
HAYES: What is your understanding of what your colleagues in the –
Republican colleagues on the Judiciary Committee are up to?
CICILLINE: Well, I think what we saw when the director testified before
the House Judiciary Committee, that they were intending to begin the work
to undermine the integrity of the FBI and the investigation of Robert
Mueller. To see my Republican colleagues really attack the agency and the
professionals who work there every day, who risk their lives to keep our
country safe, I think it was shameful.
And these are men and woman who do an extraordinary job. It`s an
incredibly respected agency. And I this investigation has moved into the
White House now with the plea of Michael Flynn. I think they are doing the
president`s bidding on the committee.
HAYES: I want to play you a passage yesterday, in which your colleague
Louie Gohmert and Christopher Wray were going back and forth in which he
was naming individual agents, trying to get
their political affiliation. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LOUIE GOHMERT, (R) TEXAS: Are you aware of any of the following
people openly aligning themselves with the political bias expressed by
McCabe or openly speaking against this administration?
First Carl Gattis?
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: I`m going to quarrel a little bit with the
premise of your question about Deputy Director McCabe.
GOHMERT: All right.
WRAY: But as far as Executive Assistant Director Gattis, as I said, he has
been a complete
professional, and by that I mean to include…
GOHMERT: Have you heard him open or align himself with political bias
against the Trump administration?
GOHMERT: Josh Schul (ph)?
GOHMERT: Maurice Amincer (ph)?
WRAY: I actually don`t know who that is.
GOHMERT: OK. All right. Thank you. Fair enough.
Ryan Parmin (ph)?
GOHMERT: All right, thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: What is he up to there?
CICILLINE: You know, again, this is an effort to try to, I think, really
in many ways intimidate the agents of the FBI from doing their job. This
HAYES: I mean, is that appropriate?
CICILLINE: It`s not appropriate. The whole line of questioning that some
of my colleagues
conducted that afternoon was inappropriate. We haven`t had meaningful
oversight in the Judiciary committee of many of the acts of this
administration that are worthy of oversight hearings. To watch
Republican colleague after Republican colleague undermine the professional
work of the FBI – you know, for the agents who are doing this work every
day, thousands of professionals who are risking their lives to do this
important work, that are upholding the rule of law in this country, to
effort was really embarrassing.
And we use the opportunity to highlight the importance of protecting Robert
Mueller in the
investigation, because this is – I`m fearful, the beginning of an effort
to undermine and really set the context for the president to ultimately go
after Robert Mueller.
HAYES: Well, that brings us to Rod Rosenstein who will be appearing before
a committee next week. And of course, he`s a key figure here because he
appointed Robert Mueller and as Sessions is recused from anything having to
do with that investigation, he essentially is the person to whom Mueller
What do you think we have in store when he comes before your committee?
CICILLINE: Well, I hope we have in store a strong statement from him that
he will protect the integrity of the investigation, ensure that it has the
resources it needs to be completed.
HAYES: Do you have confidence in him? Do you trust him?
CICILLINE: I think he has a lot to prove.
HAYES: What`s that hesitation? Why?
CICILLINE: Well, I think, you know, I think the firing of Jim Comey.
HAYES: And his role in that?
CICILLINE: And his role in that raises some serious questions. He has the
opportunity to redeem himself by conducting himself appropriately by
reassuring the committee and the American people, that he will protect the
integrity of this investigation. He will not allow anyone to interfere. I
mean, we have reports now of the president trying to interfere with the
ongoing investigations at the Congress. We want to be sure that Rod
Rosenstein is doing everything that is necessary to protect this.
He has an opportunity before the Judiciary Committee to make that clear to
the committee and to the American people.
HAYES: Do you foresee – I mean, is Rosen – is he also going to be a
target of your colleagues? Are they looking to go after him?
HAYES: I assume. I mean, I think their intention is to continue to create
this narrative that somehow we can`t trust the FBI, that somehow we can`t
trust the results of this investigation. I think nothing could be further
from the truth.
And as I said, we have an opportunity to use this occasion with Rod
Rosenstein for him to really emphatically say, to look those Republicans in
the eye, and the Democrats on the committee, and say I will protect the
special counsel. No one is going to interfere or impede or stop this
HAYES: David Cicilline, who was the mayor of Providence Rhode Island after
Buddy Cianci, a man who knew a thing or two about an FBI investigation that
he was the subject of.
Congressman Cicilline, great to have you here.
CICILLINE: Thanks for having me.
HAYES: Still ahead, if Hope Hicks was warned about contact from Russians
during the transition, it`s hard to believe Trump didn`t know. A new
Russia investigation report is coming up.
Plus, how many Romney`s can Trump trump? Thing One, Thing Two is next.
HAYES: Thing One tonight, during the campaign, Mitt Romney was a vocal
Never Trumper. You remember he gave a big speech about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY, FORMER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: His bankruptcies,
have crushed small businesses and the men and women who worked for them.
He inherited his business, he didn`t create it. And whatever happened to
Trump airlines? How about Trump University? And then there`s Trump
magazine? And Trump vodka? And Trump steaks. And Trump mortgage.
A business genius, he is not.
Here is what I know, Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud. His promises are as
worthless as a degree from Trump University.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: But as we all know, after Trump was elected, Mitt Romney, well he
came around. He went to Trump`s golf course to kiss the ring, not quite
literally, and interviewed to be Trump`s secretary of state. They famously
dined together at the super fancy Jean Georges Restaurant in New York which
looked like fun for almost everyone there. Mitt, of course, does speak
French, as you know.
But after all that, Romney got snubbed. Trumped picked Rex Tillerson for
the job. And Mitt Romney went back to Utah. And if you think that ordeal
was humiliating? Wait until you hear about the Romney Trump did pick for a
job. That`s Thing Two in 60 seconds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And joining us right now is the new chairwoman of the
Republican National Committee, Ronna Romney McDaniel, happens to be Mitt
Romney`s niece. Congratulations on the job.
RONNA ROMNEY MCDANIEL, RNC CHAIRWOMAN: Thank you. This is my first
interview since being elected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Ronna Romney McDaniel, niece of Mitt Romney, was tapped by Donald
Trump to be the head of the RNC. In fact, he picked Ronna Romney McDaniel
just one day after snubbing Mitt Romney for the secretary of state job.
But tonight, we are learning something new and strange about Trump`s
decision to hire Ronna
Romney McDaniel. The Washington Post reports President Trump had a request
would she be willing to stop using her middle name publicly? Trump
followed up saying in a light-hearted way that McDaniel, the niece of Mitt
Romney, could do what she wanted, according to two people familiar with the
comments. But, the change was soon plain for all to see. Though she had
used her maiden name for years in Michigan, where of course her grandfather
had been governor, McDaniel dropped Romney from most official party
communications and has rarely used it since.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FAMEL: Joining us now to discuss is Ronna McDaniel,
Republican National Committee chairwoman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ronna McDaniel, thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ronna McDaniel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ronna McDaniel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ronna McDaniel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ronna McDaniel, GOP chairwoman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ronna McDaniel, thanks so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Arizona Senator Jeff Flake has spent a lot of effort was the
Republican resistance to
Donald Trump. He gave a rousing speech on the Senate floor in October
calling out Trump`s, quote, reckless, outrageous and undignified behavior.
He wrote a book “Conscience of a Conservative,” which laments his party`s
complicitcy (ph) in the rise of Trump, and he tweeted a picture of a check
for $100 made out to the campaign of Democratic Alabama Senate Candidate
Doug Jones with the caption party over country.
That`s how Senator Flake portrays himself in the public eye. And according
to 538, Flake has voted in line with Trump`s position 90 percent of the
time, like he did last week on a big corporate tax cut. He was confronted
about that vote yesterday on a flight to Phoenix by activist Adie Barkin
(ph) who suffers from ALS, or Lou Gerig`s disease.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m 33. I have an 18-month-old son. And out of
nowhere I was diagnosed with ALS, which, you know, has a life expectancy of
3 to 4 years, no treatment, no cure. I probably will need to go on a
ventilator to live.
But, this tax bill is probably going to force $400 billion in automatic
PayGo cuts. What should I tell my son or what should you tell my son if
you pass this bill and he cuts funding for disability and I can`t get a
SEN. JEFF FLAKE, (R) ARIZONA: Both Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan had
already issued statements saying that they`re not going to implement PayGo.
You can choose to believe that or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: After their exchange, Flake treated, quote, I enjoyed the
conversation, A.D. We won`t always agree, but I admire your courage and
To which Barkin (ph) responded “your words have been potent all year, back
them up with your votes. This is your moment. Be America`s hero.”
A sentiment backed up on a giant sign on top of the Arizona Democratic
Party in Phoenix right now.
Up next, one week after the Flynn indictment, there`s news about the White
House communications director and the Russia investigation. The latest on
that after this.
HAYES: It`s been one week since Michael Flynn, the former National
Security Adviser to President Trump pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI
about his contacts with the Russian ambassador. Just one week since we
learned Flynn is cooperating in the Russia investigation.
Today, the revelations in the Russia investigation just keep coming. The
New York Times reporting that the FBI warned Trump adviser Hope Hicks about
emails from Russian operatives
during a presidential transition, quote, “after he took office, senior FBI
counterintelligence agents met with Ms. Hicks in the White House situation
room at least twice, gave her the names of the Russians who had contacted
her and said they are not who they claim to be.
The FBI was concerned the emails to Ms. Hicks may have been part of Russian
intelligence operation and they urged Ms. Hicks to be cautious.
There is no evidence Hicks did anything improper, according to the Times
report, but the defensive briefing was not routine. A lawyer for Hicks
declined to comment to The Times. Investigators for special counsel Robert
Mueller`s office had been interviewing Hicks, currently the White House
Communications Director for the past two days.
MSNBC contributor Naveed Jamali is a former FBI double agent, author of
“How to Catch a Russian Spy,” and MSNBC tourism analyst Malcolm Nance is
the author of the “Plot to Hack America.”
And Malcolm, I`ll start with you about the news of the sort of defensive
briefing. I mean, one thing I think we could lose sight of is there is a
real open question about what exactly the Trump administration and the
Trump campaign or the Trump transition did. We know a bunch of what they
did. There is more that may be revealed. But what seems just beyond a
doubt right now is the Russians were really, really, really, really trying
a lot of ways to get to these people.
MALCOLME NANCE, MSNBC TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, certainly the Russians were
trying many ways to get to these people. And there is a reason that they
were doing activities like going after Hope Hicks but from multiple
directions because it was very successful in doing it over the previous
She was a key player. And as we`re finding out in the Mueller
investigation right now, she was
in the room for many different activities. So, the Russians after going
after the main players will
always go after the secondary players and Naveed will tell you that in a
But for her purposes, for her to have multiple individuals coming at her
that claim to be and the FBI having to watch that intelligence as it comes
in, watch her own emails as they`re being sent to her, they probably
unmasked her name in some intelligence reports to determine who it was and
then bring it to her attention is extraordinary.
HAYES: Naveed, there are so many different intermediaries that have now
racked up in the various bits of reporting and it`s something you have
talked about a lot, about the sort of ways in which intermediaries are
used. What do you make of this sort of – I mean, it`s such a bizarre list
when you put it down. It`s sort of – the number of characters from Rob
Goldstone and Agalorov (ph) to (inaudible) to the professor in London who
Papodopoulos was talking to. It`s such a bizarre group of people. It`s
kind of hard to make sense of.
NAVEED JAMALI, FORMER FBI DOUBLE AGENT: That`s exactly right, Chris. And
to Malcolm`s point, look what this is, is Russian spies, and they have a
very standard procedure. They target people then they recruit them and if
you make it through the recruitment, you are an actual asset. What that
means, Chris, very simply is that you are now taking orders from the
You know, when I was active in my operation, that`s what the Russians
thought to do with me. They were aware that I was applying to the Navy`s
intelligence officer. They targeted me. They recruited me. And I made it
through that recruitment process.
When it comes to Hope Hicks, it`s clear. Now look, many people are
targeted, not many people make it past that phase. It`s also important to
make this crystal clear, you can be targeted. That is not an illegal
HAYES: Right. Right. It`s not your fault that you`re being targeted.
JAMALI: That`s exactly right.
the one thing I will say about Hope Hicks very quickly is that what is
interesting is that the Mueller team, that the FBI actually decided to do
that for Flynn. They didn`t decide to do that for Kushner. It`s a really
interesting thing that the only person who received a defensive brief was
HAYES: I want to talk to you, Malcolms, about George Papadopoulos. Now,
he`s a figure who I don`t think figured in anyone`s thinking about this
until, of course, his plea deal was unsealed and we found out that he had
pleaded guilty, that he had had contacts with the professor in London who
said he was connected to Russians. He was informed that the Russians had
Hillary Clinton`s emails before that even became public. And the defense
in the Trump team was he was the guy who made coffee. He wasn`t close to
anyone, despite the fact he`s famously in a meeting with Jeff Sessions and
the president of the United States, then the candidate.
His fiancee, Simona Mangiante (ph), is pushing back on the idea that he was
a peripheral figure. I want to play her interview to you and get your
reaction. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Had meetings with the leaders all over the world. He
was constantly in touch with the higher level official campaign and he
never took any initiative as far as I know unauthorized.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he in touch with the chief strategist Steve Bannon?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. As far as I know, yes. I know Steve Bannon,
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was in touch with Michael Flynn, General Flynn?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: What do you make of that, Malcolm?
NANCE: Well, what I think is fascinating about this is she is just giving
voice to what we already believed the Mueller investigation had. We`re
just getting more color in depth. We`re not going to hear about this from
Mueller until Mueller starts indicting other people, right?
NANCE: I mean, that`s a man of action. He does not mince words. He just
comes out and hits you with an indictment.
But she is now letting us know that some of these principle players that
were on the Donald Trump Jr. emails that were carbon copies, that were
carbon copies on the K.T. McFarland memo about Michael Flynn speaking to
Kislyak in the December 28 meetin, all of these people are going to, you
know, move up to the top at some point.
And Mueller is doing it in silence, and she is just telling us what she
heard in the room from Papadopoulos that, you know, these people were
players. And I think that, you know, I think that the Mueller
investigation won`t worry about this little disclosure, but it will
certainly make their intended targets worry a lot.
HAYES: Naveed, since I have you here and we talked about this earlier in
the show, and Malcolm just mentioned Mueller, I mean, you worked for the
FBI, and curious what your reaction is to watching the integrity of the
investigation, the investigation itself, Mueller, his agents and the FBI
sort of as a whole, the idea of politically independent investigation in
law enforcement be attacked by the president and his allies.
JAMALI: Well, and full disclosure, I actually worked when Mueller was the
director of the FBI. He actually signed my letter of commendation.
Look, what I can tell you, Chris, is when I was active, I was active in a,
you know, against the
Russians. I would walk into places where I didn`t know if the Russians had
guns. I was fearful of my safety. I never doubted the FBI, never doubted
their professionalism. I never doubted their loyalty and their loyalty to
I mean, to sort of see them sort of dragged through the mud, just the rank
and file, the special agents, it`s disheartening. It`s disheartening for
them. It`s disheartening for my friends who still work there.
You know, I wish Americans could sort of see what the counter intelligence
folks do at the FBI. They would be proud of this. And it is based on
nothing, but partisanship for them to be sort of maligned in that fashion.
HAYES: Malcolm, you had something you want to add?
NANCE: Yeah, he`s absolutely right. I love the bureau guys, because when
it comes to collection, they are the intelligence branch of the domestic
United States. And usually in operations that I was involved with,
sometimes our agencies would loan them transcribers in foreign languages
and things like that, but these guys when it comes to the national
intelligence gumshoeing, going
after people that are spies, who are traitors to the United States, they
are really good at that job. And I suspect their being really good at that
job is why the administration is maligning them.
They don`t know what kind of truck is about to hit them with the FBI. When
they get their teeth into it, they are just going to get down to the bottom
of this and Mueller is not going to be deterred.
HAYES: All right, Naveed Jamali and Malcolm Nance, thank you both.
That is All In for this evening.
Up next, Rachel Maddow with a special report on the dossier, who wrote it,
who released it and
what we now know to be true. The Dossier starts now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
Copy: Content and programming copyright 2017 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Copyright 2017 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.