Trump on Moore allegations: “he totally denies it” Transcript 11/21/17 All In with Chris Hayes
Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
Date: November 21, 2017
Guest: Joyce Vance, Asawin Suebsaeng, Diana DeGette
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: – a time of reckoning let us try to make it a
good one. That`s HARDBALL for now. Thanks for being with us. “ALL IN”
with Chris Hayes starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on ALL IN.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Roy Moore denies it. That`s
all I can say. He denies it. And by the way, he totally denies it.
HAYES: The President appears to endorse Roy Moore.
TRUMP: He says it didn`t happen. You know, you have to listen to him
HAYES: Despite the nine women who have already come forward.
TRUMP: The women are Trump voters, most of them are Trump voters. You
have to do what you have to do. He totally denies it.
HAYES: Why does the President support an accused child molester for U.S.
TRUMP: We don`t need a Liberal person in there, a Democrat, Jones, I`ve
looked at his record, it`s terrible on crime.
HAYES: Then, the President and Vladimir Putin.
TRUMP: We had a great call with President Putin.
HAYES: What did they talk about for an hour today? Plus new
investigations into harassment on Capitol Hill. Charlie Rose is fired from
two television networks. The President is still the President.
TRUMP: Women are very special. I think it`s a very special time.
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes. Today the President
of the United States effectively endorsed an accused child molester for
U.S. Senate. I`m going just going to repeat that to let it sink in. The
President of the United States appeared to endorse an accused child
molester to serve in the U.S. Senate. After spending days tiptoeing around
the allegations against Roy Moore and stonewalling, Moore of course who
nine women have accused of assaulting them, groping them, or pursuing them,
some of them when they were teenagers and he was in his 30s, today the
President finally broke his silence making the case against Moore`s
opponent, Democrat Doug Jones.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I could tell you – I could tell you one thing for sure. We don`t
need a liberal person in there, a Democrat. Jones, I`ve looked at his
record, it`s terrible on crime, it`s terrible on the border, it`s terrible
in the military. I can tell you for a fact, we do not need somebody that`s
going to be bad on crime, bad on borders, bad with the military, bad for
the second amendment. I can tell you don`t need somebody who`s soft on
crime like Jones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Soft on crime. That`s an interesting phrase for the President to
use when you consider just who is on each side of that ledger. Because on
one hand, you`ve got Roy Moore who was kicked off the Alabama State Supreme
Court twice for defying federal law and who now stands accused of preying
on young girls, girls as young as 14 years old, while he was a deputy
district attorney and abusing that position in the criminal justice system
to silence his victims. On the other hand, there`s Doug Jones, a former
federal prosecutor who put away the KKK members responsible for the 1963
church bombing that killed four little girls. And he, Doug Jones, that`s
the one who`s soft on crime, according to this President. The President`s
decision to weigh in on the race comes exactly three weeks till election
day in Alabama where the polls remain closed, even as more and more women
have come forward to share their stories about Moore, a warning some
viewers may find those stories disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEIGH CORFMAN, ACCUSER OF ROY MOORE: He removed my clothing. He left the
room and came back in wearing his white underwear. And he touched me over
my clothing, what was left of it and he tried to get me to touch him as
TINA JOHNSON, ACCUSER OF ROY MOORE: Then he just grabbed my behind. I
mean, forcefully grabbed it. And I didn`t even react. I just walked out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was going through your mind in that moment?
JOHNSON: I was so ashamed.
BEVERLY YOUNG NELSON, ACCUSER OF ROY MOORE: Mr. Moore reached over and
began groping me and putting his hands on my breasts. I tried fighting him
off while yelling at him to stop but instead of stopping he back squeezing
my neck, attempting to force my head onto his crotch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Moore denies those specific allegations and today the President
appeared to take his side against the women who have come forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, he denies it. Look, he denies it. I mean, if you look at
what is really going on, and you look at all the things that have happened
over the last 48 hours, he totally denies it. He says it didn`t happen.
And you know, you have to listen to him also. You`re talking about – he
said 40 years ago this did not happen. So, you know –
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to campaign for him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are going to campaign for him, for Roy Moore?
TRUMP: I`ll be letting you know next week, I mean, Roy Moore denies it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what about the women? What about the nine women?
TRUMP: And by the way, he gives a total denial and I do have to say 40
years is a long time. He`s run eight races and this has never come up, so
40 years is a long time. The women are Trump voters, most of them are
Trump voters. All you can do is you have to do what you have to do. He
totally denies it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That stance puts the President as some of his top political allies,
including the Senate Majority Leader, the Speaker of the House, the
Attorney General, and the President`s own daughter Ivanka who have all said
they find those women`s allegations, the one you just saw to be credible.
The Jones campaign just put out a new ad that makes exactly that point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On Roy Moore`s disturbing actions, Ivanka Trump says
there`s a special place in hell for people who prey on children and I have
no reason to doubt the victims` accounts. Jeff Sessions says I have no
reason to doubt these young women. And Richard Shelby says he will
absolutely not vote for Roy Moore. Conservative voices putting children
and women over party, doing what`s right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Of course believing women is a tricky subject for this President
who is elected to office after being accused by 15 women, on the record, of
unwanted physical contact. He denied all their allegations despite having
admitted to some of the same kind of behavior on the Access Hollywood tape.
And it is now the official position of this White House, even at this very
moment, that all 15 of those women, all of them on the record, all who have
described their recollections the President`s unwanted physical contact
that every single last one of them are liars, everyone. Nevertheless, when
asked if he has a message to American women in the midst of what`s become a
historic national reckoning on sexual misconduct, this was the President`s
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Women are very special. I think it`s a very special time because a
lot of things are coming out and I think that`s good for our society and I
think it`s very, very good for women. And I`m very happy a lot of these
things are coming out and I`m very happy – I`m very happy it`s being
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Steve Schmidt is a Republican Strategist and MSNBC Political
Analyst. The President of the United States basically endorsed, I mean,
the accused child molester, a man that`s credibly accused of molesting a
child, over the Democrat today. What`s your reaction as a Republican?
STEVE SCHMIDT, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Tragic day for the Republican
Party. I just think, Chris, to use an analogy, you know, no one`s ever
been injured jumping out of an airplane, it`s the landing that gets you.
And I wonder proverbially, thinking about that, when we look back, I wonder
if this is the moment where, for Republicans, the party left the airplane
on way to – on the way to a devastating landing in 2018. And I just think
the line is drawn, the die are cast. The forces of decency are against the
forces of indecency. This is an accused child molester, credibly accused,
by multiple women.
What we`re talking about here is a 14-year-old little girl. You saw the
pain in the eyes and on the face of that middle-aged woman. This has been
a defining event in her life. He`s unfit to serve in the United States
Senate. This exposes a profound moral rot in the country, in the
Republican Party. A great test for the citizens of State of Alabama and
we`ve reached the hour that George Washington warned us about. A political
tribalism that`s so corrosive, so corrupting, that it could take otherwise
normal, decent people that you`d encounter on any day, and make them defend
the indefensible and the profoundly indecent. And it`s a sad moment.
HAYES: You know, it`s interesting, I`ve been seeing – I saw Tim Miller,
who is a kind of never Trump Republican, but a real – a Republican in good
standing, not a heterodox conservative, a conservative who worked for Jeb
Bush. And I saw him tweeting today raising money for Doug Jones basically
saying, this is a moral – this is a moment when people have to step and up
do the right thing. And I wonder if you think there will be more of that.
SCHMIDT: Look, I think that should Roy Moore be elected, the Republicans
in the Senate have a difficult decision that is going to hurt them either
way to seat him or to expel him. And certainly, in my view, he should be
expelled. But if Roy Moore is seated as a Republican in the United States
Senate, he will be hung around the neck of every Republican running in
every suburban district, everywhere in this country. And it will be a
legitimate attack, it will be the right attack for Democrats to make, and I
think that a large portion of this country, looking at the absurdity of
these self-proclaimed men of god, these pastors in Alabama, with these
indescribably despicable defenses of this.
I think that there will be a profound political punishment inflicted. You
essentially have 100 percent of the Democrats, 65 percent to 70 percent of
the independents, and about 25 percent of Republicans, that will stand in a
coalition together against the one thing that`s going to be tested on the
ballot in 2018. Do we want to continue down this road, in this age of
Trump? Is this the type of country we want to live in? Is this the type
of indecency we want to embrace?
HAYES: You know, there is – there`s a thesis about our current politics,
about having very, very weak parties institutionally, but very strong
partisanship and Donald Trump is a great example, right? The Republican
Party as an institution didn`t want the guy to get the nomination. But
once he got the nomination, the partisanship so is powerful that basically
if you will vote for the person who has R next to their name, and it
strikes me that Roy Moore is an even more extreme illustration of just how
profound that phenomenon is in our politics.
SCHMIDT: The most extreme thus far as the parties are shrinking, their
bases are becoming more extreme. As the bases become more extreme, the
challenge for politicians to incite them, to polarize them they do it with
more extreme rhetoric, more extreme stances. In the middle of the
electorate, normal people are just looks – left looking at this saying, my
goodness, what`s going on? What does it mean that when you have someone
credibly accused of molesting, child molestation of a 14-year-old girl? I
mean, it seems that prisoners in a penitentiary have a higher code of moral
conduct than does the west wing at the White House and the President of the
United States when it comes to understanding the disgustingness of the
predation by an adult on a child. I mean, of all the despicable behavior
that we`ve seen laid out in recent weeks, this is a special category.
These are children. Children. Terrible.
HAYES: Let me add one more detail there. The 14-year-old in question was
– she says, approached by Moore while he was a district attorney at a
courthouse where her mother was about to go into a custody hearing dealing
with her custody during a divorce. That`s when he picked her up. Steve
Schmidt, always good to talk to you, thank you.
SCHMIDT: Thank you, Chris.
HAYES: Joyce Vance is former U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of
Alabama and lives in Alabama now, Asawin Suebsaeng is Politics Reporter for
the Daily Beast. And Aswawin, I`ll start with you because you`ve been
reporting on the fact that the Trump world that wanted distance from Roy
Moore, and then key allies lobbied the President to reconsider. You were
reporting this yesterday. Today we saw the culmination of this effort by
Kellyanne Conway and Steve Bannon, the particular two individuals who
should forever be associated with Roy Moore forever and ever because they
have very strongly backed him even after he has been credibly accused of
attempting to rape a 16-year-old and molesting a 14-year-old, right?
ASAWIN SUEBSAENG, POLITICS REPORTER, THE DAILY BEAST: Absolutely, and for
not just the President of the United States, but for the White House, for
some of his top allies outside of the White House, for a lot of people in
the Republican Party. This has been a week or so of coming back home to
Roy Moore over the course of, as we mentioned, a very short period of time.
Over the past seven days or so, the President had been wavering on Roy
Moore, top officials in the White House had been wavering on Roy Moore,
even Steve Bannon had voiced private reservations about Roy Moore. But
over just a handful of days, they all decided to not go wobbly and buckle
up and decided that this is our guy.
And as we reported in The Daily Beast yesterday, some of the President`s
top`s top advisers, including Conway and Bannon – Bannon of course no
longer work in the west wing but still talks to the President regularly on
the phone – had been urging him to not publicly denounce or reject Roy
Moore because, and this is going to sound very crude and cynical, but it is
the calculus of a lot of these Republicans and people working in Trump`s
inner circle that when it comes to things like tax cuts, that is too
important a thing to throw away to a Democratic seat, even when you have
allegations of child molestation.
HAYES: Joyce what is it – you know, everyone`s looking at Alabama, the
polls are closed, it seems like an impossible race to poll and to model but
I`m really curious what it is like there right now and how your
understanding perceiving this race and the folks you talked to.
JOYCE VANCE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: This will be a close race. Everyone`s
saying that and it`s absolutely true. Perhaps on the ground, we see a few
markers one way or the other. I drove today through Old Mountain Brook,
which is Luther Strange territory, Conservative Republican territory and
instead of seeing Roy Moore signs, I saw no Roy Moore signs at all in the
front yards of homes but I saw a sprinkling of Doug Jones signs. A couple
of signs in every neighborhood that I drove through. That`s not something
I would have seen in any other election, Chris.
HAYES: So you think – I mean, this has always been the question, Moore
barely won the last time he ran statewide, he actually ran against your
husband and he barely eked out that victory. He has very high unfavorables
and was a polarizing figure even before that primary victory, and even
before being credibly accused of attempting to rape a 16-year-old girl and
to – and molesting a 14-year-old, among other teenagers he attempted to
seduce, apparently. You think – the question is are those flipable,
VANCE: I think those are flipable, gettable votes. Jones has to talk to
suburban women. He really has to energize his base. And that`s what he
seems to be doing. He has campaigned down in Selma with Terri Sewell, the
very popular Democratic Congresswoman from Selma. He campaigned with
Georgia Representative John Lewis in the Wiregrass in the southern part of
Alabama. He seems to be doing that well. Now he has to convince suburban
women – moms who are outraged on behalf of their daughters or their
granddaughters by Roy Moore`s conduct – to either vote for him or to stay
home and that`s really the question in this race.
HAYES: I want to play what Doug Jones had to say about Moore`s accusers
today, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe Roy Moore was a sexual predator?
DOUG JONES, DEMOCRATIC SENATE CANDIDATE, ALABAMA: I believe the women. I
think that answers the question. I believe their stories have credibility,
and I believe them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you feel about Donald Trump at this point is
endorsing, passively endorsing a man who has been accused to be a child
JONES: I`m going to– I`m going to let the people of Alabama make that
decision. I feel like my record speaks for itself and I don`t have to have
the President or anyone else to talk about it or try to label it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Asawin, there`s reporting that contrary to a lot of – almost
everyone in sort of the upper echelons of the Republican Party they say
they find the women credible. The President saw parallels between the
Alabama candidate`s situation his own Access Hollywood video surfaced, and
that he privately doubted Moore`s accusers. What do you make of that?
SUEBSAENG: Well, that sounds about right for this President. And it`s
also what people in his inner circle are thinking when it comes to
parallels with the on-rush of sexual assault and harassment allegations
that came out against him during October of the 2016 election. There was
this moment where so much of the Republican Party was denouncing or
distancing from Donald Trump on endorsing him. But then of course over the
course of a very short period of time, just a month`s time, a few weeks,
they all came home and rallied around him once he became President-elect
and leader of the free world.
And the coming-home to Roy Moore that has happened in the west wing, and
outside of it, within the Republican Party – so I mean, not all the
Republican Party but a lot of it – happened within the span of about a
week. That is a lot shorter than it took for them to come back to Trump.
And if you don`t mind, I just want to try a thought experiment with this
panel and your viewers. Does anybody honestly think that the President of
the United States would be saying, oh, these allegations happened so long
ago, and you know, we`re not sure who to believe if Doug Jones was accused
of all of this? Not for a second.
HAYES: Not a single second. Not anyone. Joyce Vance and Asawin
Suebsaeng, many thanks to you both.
VANCE: Thank you.
SUEBSAENG: Thank you so much.
HAYES: Coming up, the Kremlin scoops the White House again. What we
learned about Donald Trump`s hour-long phone conversation with Vladimir
Putin ahead. And next, the harassment problem already plaguing the
building where Roy Moore wants to work, that story in two minutes.
HAYES: – of Roy Moore as Senator and the President basically endorses
him. There`s running questions about how Congress has been handling its
own allegations of sexual misconduct. The House Ethics Committee today
announcing its opened investigations into Congressman John Conyers,
Democrat of Michigan following disclosure of a 2015 confidential settlement
agreement with a former staff member who says she was fired for refusing
his sexual advances. Congressman Conyers responded with a statement which
reads in part, “in this case I expressly and vehemently deny the
allegations made against me and continue to do so.” The resolution was not
for millions of dollars, but rather for an amount that equated to a
reasonable severance payment. And it`s true, the settlement was for more
According to BuzzFeed News which broke the story based on documents
relating to the case, documents that included supporting affidavits
claiming multiple instances of Conyers making sexual advances to female
staff. It`s also the case that while BuzzFeed News independently verified
the authenticity of the documents, they were, and I quote here, “first
provided the BuzzFeed News by Mike Cernovich, the men`s right figure turned
pro-Trump media activist” which might explain why no sitting Republican
Congressman was repealed by those particular documents. But Congresswoman
Jackie Speier testified she knows of two current members of Congress she
says are sexual harassers, one Democrat and one Republican.
There`ve also been over the past 20 years, 264 settlements to federal
employees totaling more than $17 million for various violations of
employment rules, including sexual harassment. Congressman Diana DeGette
is a Ranking Member of the House Sub-Committee on Oversight and
Investigations and says she was groped by former Congressman Bob Filner who
resigned as San Diego Mayor in 2013 due to charges of sexual harassment.
Congressman, first I want to get your response –
REP. DIANA DEGETTE (D), COLORADO: Hi, Chris.
HAYES: – you said this about Filner who of course was run out of office
in San Diego after allegations by many women against him surfaced. You
talked about your own experience with him. I just want to read you his
statement and get your response. He says I don`t know where this comes
from, we were friends, I would never do anything like that, it didn`t
happen. Your response?
DEGETTE: Well, I was there, it did happen. And this is what these men
often say, if not always. And what it really is and the reason I think
that people need to name names, for me, I`m tough. It wasn`t that big of a
deal at the time. And you know, professional women like me have to go
through these things, unfortunately, on a regular basis. So I told my
husband, I told my Chief of Staff but I didn`t make a complaint. And then,
of course, after that what happened was he apparently harassed women who
were subordinates to him, other women and eventually he was forced out of
office as Mayor of San Diego and then he even was involved in a court case.
And so I thought to myself, you know if I had said something at the time –
DEGETTE: – maybe these other people wouldn`t have been victimized.
That`s why I just don`t think it cuts it to say, there are people in
Congress right now who are predators, but we`re not going to say who they
are. That`s what we`ve been doing all along. And you know, not only do we
need to call out who`s doing this, we really need to look at the rules that
we have. The office of compliance that you just referred to, which is the
office that all the discrimination complaints go to, has a very archaic
process, it has a 30-day arbitration, and then more time for counseling but
it has no link to the Ethics Committee. So even if somebody was found in
the compliance investigation to have had some kind of sexual harassment,
that wouldn`t necessarily go to the Ethics investigation. And that`s
really what we need to look at doing.
HAYES: You know, Ben Smith, who is editor at BuzzFeed, referred to the
process as a plausible deniability machine, because basically no one gets
notified, so everyone can say, in leadership or colleagues – I mean, let
me ask you this. Did you know about the allegations in the sworn affidavit
against John Conyers?
DEGETTE: No. I didn`t. And –
HAYES: Do you think you should have?
DEGETTE: I think the Ethics Committee should have been investigating that.
They should come up with recommendations. And if they find credible
evidence that a member of Congress is engaging in sexual harassment, they
should leave Congress. I think members of Congress should be held to a
higher standard than anybody else. And if – and I think it`s really
important to believe the women. And I think it`s also important to
preserve due process. But that`s why we need strong ethics investigations
in these – in these situations and we need a link between the
administrative office that`s investigating these complaints and the Ethics
HAYES: How pervasive is this problem in Congress?
DEGETTE: Well – just like any other workplaces like this you hear rumors,
you hear people talk. But I talked – I talked about some of the
situations that happened to me, and every so often you hear that. What
concerns me is if members of Congress are doing this to women who are
subordinates, either junior staffers or interns and I think that we need a
much more robust reporting system to find out exactly how extensive this
HAYES: All right, Congresswoman Diana DeGette, thank you for making time.
DEGETTE: Thank Chris, I appreciate it.
HAYES: Today before leaving for Thanksgiving, before pardoning the turkeys
and notable addition, the President`s schedule, a phone call with Vladimir
Putin. We`ll talk about that ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Russia is a ruse. I have nothing to do with Russia. Haven`t made
a phone call to Russia in years, don`t speak to people from Russia. Not
that I wouldn`t, I just have nobody to speak to. I spoke to Putin twice.
He called me on the election. I told you this. And he called me on the
inauguration, a few days ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That was the President just one month after he was inaugurated.
Since then he`s spoken many times, not just with President Putin but with
his representatives. And often the White House has only confirmed those
interactions after news leaked out. For example, in May, President Trump
met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Russia`s Ambassador to
the U.S., Sergei Kislyak – remember that guy, all tied up in the Michael
Flynn stuff – at the White House. And that meeting was closed to the U.S.
press. And in that meeting, Trump reportedly boasted about his firing the
FBI Director the day before saying he`d relieved the pressure he felt over
Russia. Kislyak wasn`t even listed on the President`s official schedule,
American journalists weren`t informed about it, and he wasn`t included in
the official White House readout. We only found out about it because the
Russian press was allowed in the room and tweeted out photos.
Then in July, after an official on the record meeting with the President –
with President Putin at the G-20 Summit, came word of a second undisclosed
private hour-long conversation conducted through the Kremlin`s interpreter
because the American translator with Mr. Trump did not speak Russian. The
White House confirmed the conversation only after news reports about it but
said the leaders only spoke briefly. Then in September, President Trump
met Russia`s new Ambassadors to the U.S. at a credentialing ceremony at the
White House which is a fairly standard thing. But the thing is, no one
else knew about it until the Russian media reported it first. Again, White
House later confirming the interaction, though said it wasn`t a “meeting.”
Which brings us to today and President Trump`s phone call with President
Putin. At least we knew about it before it happened this time. Thanks to
the Kremlin, which confirmed it before the White House did. What exactly
did they talk about for over an hour? That`s next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We had a great call with President Putin. We had a call that
lasted almost an hour and a half. We just put out a release on the call,
but we`re talking very strongly about bringing peace to Syria. We`re
talking very strongly about North Korea and Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Today`s phone call between Trump and President Vladimir Putin,
which the White House says touched on North Korea, Ukraine, and Syria took
place one day after a surprise face-to-face meeting and hug between
President Putin and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in Sochi, Russia.
With me now to help to help sort out the Trump/Putin phone call, former
U.S. ambassador to
Russia, Michael McFaul.
What do you think the conversation about Syria was?
MICHAEL MCFAUL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: Unclear to me. Talking
strongly, I don`t know what that means. Most certainly the president
didn`t go out of his way to talk about the need for a constitutional
reform, electoral process, a political transition, all of that language
that might signal what we want in Syria was absent from the readout and
absent from the readout that the president did verbally.
HAYES: Let me take a step back for a second. I mean, one of the strange
things here is the president was incredibly reticent to criticize Russia
during the campaign. Since he has come in, it seems to me he has been
caught between that rhetoric and his inclination to have a, quote, better
relationship with Putin and the political facts on the ground such that the
relationship has been somewhat on auto pilot. Is that a fair
MCFAUL: Yeah, I think that`s fair. Although I would add auto pilot means
we`re not involved. So auto pilot means we`re not in the negotiations
about Syria when the other leaders are meeting tomorrow in Sochi to talk
about that. Auto pilot means we`re a passive player in these other arenas.
And I don`t think that`s good for American national interests.
But it is also true that he hasn`t done the more grandiose things that he
had promised during the campaign, things that I think would have been not
in America`s national interests. So at least that`s some good news.
HAYES: What do you mean by “those things?”
MCFAUL: As a candidate, he said he would look into lifting sanctions. He
said he would look into recognizing Crimea as part of the Russian
Federation. He called NATO obsolete. And those made people very worried
about this rapprochement that he was planning to do with Vladimir Putin.
What you have instead is lots of happy talk, lots of nice words about
Vladimir Putin, but very practically in terms of the policy, actually lots
of continuity with the Obama administration policy
HAYES: Do you worry in your darkest thoughts, do you worry that the
president is compromised in these interactions, that there`s part of him
that is not pursuing American interests in these bilateral conversations,
because of something that may be out there?
MCFAUL: I don`t know, Chris. Maybe I worry, but I don`t want to get ahead
of my skis, I don`t
want to get ahead of the investigation. I would just say that it`s curious
for a president, Democrat or Republican, by the way, going back decades,
nobody has ever spoke this fondly about a leader in the Kremlin when you
compare President Trump`s words to any other president.
HAYES: There`s also, it seems to me, some continuity with the way that he
deals with other strong men, whether that`s Duterte in the Philippines, or
Xi in China, or Erdogan in Turkey. He does seem to have genuine affection,
affinity, admiration for leaders who are in institutional settings in which
they are essentially not democratically accountable.
MCFAUL: There`s most certainly a pattern there, you`re right about that.
I think he also has a theory of talking nice to these people in hopes that
that will achieve some objective, right? So flattery is his method of
diplomacy. And if it works, I`ll be the first to congratulate him. If
saying those nice things about President Xi as he did just last week gets
the Chinese to help us on North Korea in a substantive way, I`ll applaud
So far I would say lots of nice talk, and very few results.
HAYES: Yeah, it is an irony that a person who talks about himself as so
tough, such a tough dealmaker, that in the international arena he`s kind of
fawning with everyone it seems to me. And he`s particularly fawning with
Putin, but it`s actually a broader phenomenon than Putin.
MCFAUL: It is. It`s very striking, very strange to me to watch, because
it`s all about talking, it`s never about criticism. It`s rarely even
talking about American objectives.
MCFAUL: So if you look at that readout of that phone call today, when I
used to work at the White House I used to write those statements after
Obama would talk to Russian leaders. And we would say, President Obama
pressed for the return of sovereignty to Ukraine. President Obama said
there needs to be a political solution in Syria, right, so at least we
would read out our side to say what objectives we were seeking to achieve.
That is noticeably absent in the readout today for me.
HAYES: There don`t appear to be objectives.
Ambassador Michael McFaul, thank you.
MCFAUL: Thanks for having me.
HAYES: Still to come, a television icon fired one day after just an
incredible report detailing
years of sexual harassment. Irin Carmon, one of the outstanding reporters
who broke the Charlie Rose story joins me ahead.
Plus, tonight`s Thing One, Thing Two next.
HAYES: Thing One tonight, a Texas sheriff has landed himself in hot water
after publicly threatening to charge a woman for an anti-Trump decal. Last
week, Fort Bend County sheriff Troy Nells posted this image on his personal
Facebook page, a truck with a decal reading “F Trump and F you for voting
And Sheriff Nells wrote, I have received numerous calls regarding the
offensive display on this truck, if you know who owns this the truck or it
is yours I would like to discuss it with you.
Then adding this apparent threat, our prosecutor has informed us she would
conduct charges regarding the decal but I feel we can come to an agreement
regarding a modification to it.”
One note of context here, Sheriff Nells who suggested he could maybe bring
someone because an anti-Trump sticker, has also said he may run for
congress as a Republican next year.
After the post made headlines, the Fort Bend district attorney rebuffed the
sheriff saying his office could not bring charges over a sticker. But now
the woman who owns the truck is thinking about taking action. In addition
to the new sticker she`s added to her truck. And that is Thing Two in 60
HAYES: Texas Sheriff Troy Nells is mulling a Republican bid for congress
next year publicly threatened to bring charges against a woman with an
anti-Trump sticker on her truck, Karen Fonseca. She couldn`t be cited for
her sticker, but a day later she was arrested on an unrelated charge dating
back to 2014.
Now, Fonseca (ph) was released on bail. Now she`s hitting back starting
with a sticker she added to her truck this weekend, that part of the right
reading “F Troy Nells and F you for voting for
him,” and suggesting this whole incident was politically motivated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN FONSECA: He didn`t think twice before he went and put us out on
Facebook and put me on blast, involved my family and everything else. It`s
making my statement and saying, if you`re going to put me on blast that you
want to gain some votes, let`s put the real Troy out there and give you
what you wanted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Fonseca is also considIring suing Sheriff Troy Nells, a move the
ACLU of Texas has already endorsed, saying you can`t prosecute speech just
because it has the f-word in it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FONSECA: He messed with the wrong person, for one. And secondly, if I can
do this, it might encourages other people to stand up for their rights as
well and know that their voice will be heard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Down the stretch in the 2016 campaign, Donald Trump went to the
Little Haiti neighborhood in Miami to make the case for Haitian-American
vote that he, and not Hillary Clinton, would look out for them at any cost,
particularly in the wake of Haiti`s devastating 2010 earthquake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The 2010 Haitian earthquake unleashed a horrible and catastrophic
devastation. Over 300,000 dead, unbelievable. 300,000 – thank you,
George – millions displaced or injured; homes, businesses, schools reduced
to rubble. The truth is Haiti is still suffIring very badly, maybe as
The Haitian people deserve better, and that`s what I intend to give them.
I will give them better. Whether you vote for me or you don`t vote for me,
I really want to be your greatest champion and I will be your champion,
whether you vote for me or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Just to fact check a bit, the death toll from the earthquake is
widely disputed but there is no question that it decimated Haiti, prompting
the Obama administration to grant what`s called temporary protected status
to tens of thousands of Haitians so they could live here in the U.S.
But now the administration of Donald Trump, that man who you saw there
promising to be the champion of the Haitian people, who said just last year
that Haiti is still suffIring very badly, that man has now revoked that
protection for 80,000 people. In a statement, Homeland Security Secretary
Elaine Duke saying, quote, “significant steps have been taken to improve
the stability and quality of life for Haitian citizens and Haiti is able to
safely receive traditional levels of returned citizens.”
Now, more than half of Haitians live in poverty, one in four in abject
And here is the thing, the country is also still suffIring from a cholera
epidemic that was
caused by the UN peacekeeping force that came in after the earthquake.
They brought cholera to Haiti
and Trump refuses to pay a penny for the UN Cholera relief fund that is
designed to address the
cholera the UN brought to Haiti.
And now, nearly 60,000 Haitians living in the U.S. must return to Haiti
within 18 months or face deportation.
The Haitian community is in shock. Gerald Michaud (ph), who lives in
Brooklyn telling The New York Times, “the situation is not good in my
country. I don`t know where I am able to go.”
In Florida today, protesters rallied in front of the president`s Mar-a-Lago
estate to protest the
decision as Haitian parents grappled with being forced to leave their U.S.-
born children behind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And whether you vote for he or you don`t vote for me, I really want
to be your greatest champion and I will be your champion, whether you vote
for me or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Both CBS News and PBS terminated their relationship today with
legendary news man Charlie Rose after eight women told The Washington Post
that Rose made unwanted sexual advances, including lewd phone calls,
walking around naked in their presence or groping their breasts, buttocks
or genital areas.
Rose apologized when he called his inappropriate behavior when he accepts
responsibility. But he said that not all of the allegations are accurate
and added, “I always felt I was pursuing shared feelings even though I now
realize I was mistaken.”
This morning, Rose`s now former co-host on CBS This Morning, Nora
O`Donnell, Gail King addressed the allegations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORA O`DONNELL, CBS NEWS: This I know is true, women cannot achieve
equality in the workplace or in society until there is a reckoning and
taking of responsibility. This will be investigated. This has to end.
This behavior is wrong. Period.
GAIL KING, CBS NEWS: I can`t stop thinking about the anguish of these
women, what happened to their dignity, what happened to their bodies, what
happened to maybe their careers. I can`t stop thinking about that and the
pain they are going through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: I`m joined by one of the reporters who broke the news about Charlie
Rose and co-bylined on that piece. Irin Carmon, contributing writer at The
Washington Post`s Outlook section who first began investigating the
allegations against Rose in 2010.
It`s great to have you here. It`s a phenomenal piece of reporting.
IRIN CARMON, THE WASHINGTON POST: Thank you.
HAYES: So, thank you for doing it.
I want to start with that. You started in 2010. That`s a long time.
HAYES: Tell me what you started to do in 2010, where it went and what
happened this time around?
CARMON: So, we have eight people in our story in The Washington Post which
I co-wrote with Amy Britain (ph). Two of those women, I first became aware
of in 2010, two one of the ones featured in the story, one of them on the
record, Kyle Godfried Ryan (ph), and I attempted to reach them in 2010 and
speak to people who worked on the show. And you know we write in this
atmosphere of fear. It was really difficult to get anyone to talk to me.
And eventually I just didn`t feel like I had enough.
When the incredible reporting in The New York Times on Harvey Weinstein,
our old friend Ronan Farrow, in the New Yorker and at The Washington Post,
the reporting on Roy Moore, I started to think that perhaps it was time to
revisit the story and got back in touch and all of a sudden my calls were
HAYES: That`s really, how would you describe the difference between trying
to talk to people about this exact same story as seven years ago and this
CARMON: I think there is safety in numbers. Nobody wants to be – even –
I would say even now it is quite difficult to get anybody with an
allegation of sexual harassment or assault to speak to you on the record
and we know as journalist that it`s important to have as many people on the
record as possible despite the fact anybody doing so is submitting
themselves to scrutiny and to stigma.
But when there are many people, including famous people, including the
Ashley Judds of the world, who Ashley Judd was one of the first people to
go on record, it is kind of a game changer because it makes it less about
one person`s individual behavior and more about a systemic phenomenon of
men in power who are behaving in a particular way.
So, it`s not just why didn`t you say no or why didn`t you leave or why did
you say yes to this invitation, it`s more about a pattern of behavior?
HAYES: YOu know, the pattern is one of the things that has been striking a
lot of different reporting in different domains, and particularly here.
And I want to talk a little about the ways in which his alleged behavior,
although some of it I think is confirmed, so I`m not sure I have to say
alleged, right, because he says…
CARMON: Just try to say alleged every other word.
HAYES: Right. Inappropriate was essentially just kind of shrugged off or
sort of worked around by everybody in this orbit.
You have his long-time executive producer Yvette Vega (ph). She said she
would shrug and say that`s just Charlie being Charlie.
And then one of the quotes that popped out in the page. She said, I
failed. It is crushing. I deeply regret not helping them, speaking of the
CARMON: Right. So, it`s just Charlie being Charlie was the recollection of
the young woman that we interviewed Kyl Godfried Ryan (ph) who was 21 years
old when her boss, who was three times her age, she says he walked around
her naked. He would call her with his sexual fantasies that featured her.
He would ask her intimate questions about her life.
So, when she reported much of this behavior to Yvette Vega (ph), the
executive producer, who was the closest thing to kind of a person of
authority who was not Charlie, Charlie Rose owns his own show – I guess
still owns. And that`s when she says she would be told by Yvette, that`s
just Charlie being Charlie.
Now, in Yvette`s statement to us, Yvette Vega`s statementto us, she does
say I`m crushed that I didn`t protect them, which seems to me, you know,
we did come to her in detail with all the allegations that concerned her
and I also would say with regards to Charlie, his statement says that some
of the allegations are not true.
I want to say that The Washington Post gave him ample opportunity to
respond to them before publication in detail and he chose not to.
HAYES: We should also note – I mean, that CBS presumably did not find out
the story was being published when it went live on The Washington Post.
CARMON: We also asked CBS, Bloomberg and PBS for comment. We gave them a
heads up. We asked them have you ever investigated him for sexual
harassment and their answer was has anyone every complained? We asked them
what kind of HR function is made available to employees of the Charlie Rose
Show. Basically all of them said they didn`t have any HR oversight over the
show, which I potentially – you know it made these women feel like there
was nowhere to turn besides Yvette Vega. And they all said that they had
never received a complaint of sexual harassment.
Now CBs News reported tonight that three women at CBS hvae reported to them
as I understand it in the last day.
CARMON: Sexual harassment that they said took place at CBS.
HAYES: That`s a new chapter in the story.
One of the things also in the story that struck me, and it`s been a pattern
throughout these is the
ways in which this shut the door on women from entering whole fields, that
these were young women coming, aspiring to be in journalism and who found
the experience so awful and traumatizing they were like screw this, I`m
getting out. And we saw that with Harvey Weinstein with people who were
tryingto break into that business. We`ve seen it with other examples that
women basically encounter this as the first door they walk through, the
first gatekeeper, and we`re like I don`t want to have anything to do with
CARMON: They described a culture on the show to us of fear and
intimidation. Everybody, they said, was afraid of Charlie`s temper, but he
was the key to their career success they thought. And it seemed to be that
it was encouraged to spend time with him. They would go to his apartment to
deliver research. They would work at his Bellport (ph) mansion. And many
of the allegations that we describe in the piece took place in these
So, the idea was, well, do you take this invitation because this guy has
the key to your career? If you don`t go, you`re not going to build a
relationship with him. You`re not going to get to be there when he
interviews Assad. So, it`s a bit of a catch 22.
HAYES: All right, Irin Carmon, an amazing piece of reporting. Thanks for
being with me tonight.
CARMON: Thank you.
HAYES: That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts
right now. Good evening, Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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