All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 10/3/17 Continued coverage from Las Vegas

Richard Blumenthal,, David Chipman, Darius Harper, Dillon Christos

Date: October 3, 2017
Guest: RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, David Chipman, Darius Harper, Dillon Christos

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: – 225-3121. And that`s HARDBALL for now.
Thanks for being with us.”ALL IN” with Chris Hayes starts right now.



type of weaponry and the amount of weaponry in that room, it was

HAYES: War zone in Las Vegas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A battlefield, that`s exactly what it was.

HAYES: New details on the shooter`s massive arsenal. And the same old
excuses to stay out of the gun debate.


laws as time goes by.

HAYES: Plus, inside a gun shop the day after the shooting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the people that think like, why does anyone need
these things? Why do you need five of them? What do you say them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you need two cars?

HAYES: Back to Puerto Rico.

TRUMP: On a local level, they have to give us more help.

HAYES: The unbelievable scene during today`s Presidential visit to an
American island in crisis.

TRUMP I hate to tell you, Puerto Rico, but you`ve thrown our budget a
little out of whack.

HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from Las Vegas, I`m Chris Hayes. And tonight the
nation must once again answer a question. Is now a good time to talk about
gun violence in this country? Or are massacres like the one that unfolded
right behind me two nights ago, a terrifying, almost endless hailstorm of
bullets that left almost 600 people dead or wounded, is that just something
we`re all willing to live with? What one survivor called the tragic cost
of freedom.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a tragic cost of freedom that people can do bad
things. If you can find a gun law that could prevent this from happening,
I could sign up today. But I am proud of our country`s second amendment
rights and I`m glad we`re allowed to defend ourselves.


HAYES: We now know the gunman behind this attack, the deadliest mass
shooting in modern U.S. history, had built up a vast stockpile of firearms,
all of them apparently, as far as we know now, purchased legally. We got
our first glimpse of those weapons today. In this new video taken outside
Stephen Paddock`s hotel room, through the door you can see what appears to
be one of the gunman`s high-powered rifles mounted on a shooting bipod, a
device obviously designed to provide more stability for the long-range
firing he was planning.

According to an internal law enforcement document seen by NBC News, 23
total firearms were found in that hotel suite at the Mandalay Bay Hotel.
Another 19 found at the gunman`s home North of Las Vegas. This man managed
to get his hands on 42 guns. At least some of them semi-automatic, plus
explosives and thousands of rounds of ammunition. Law enforcement
officials say the gunman had two bump stocks, a completely legal device
used to modify a semi-automatic rifle to fire rapidly as if it were fully
automatic. It is clear from the videos, and particularly the audio from
the night of the attack, those bump stocks worked largely as designed. We
are talking about weapons of war, which was exactly what it felt like
Sunday night, according to an Afghanistan veteran I talked to today who was
working security at the music festival.


HAYES: Did it feel like a war zone to you?

DARIUS HARPER, SECURITY GUARD: Yes, actually did. I was involved in a
lethal encounter a few years ago, it was in the line of duty incident. But
nothing like this. Nothing like a barrage of gunfire coming in, it got
multiple casualties, mass casualties coming in. I can honestly tell you,
after everything I`ve been trained and done and been through, I mean, I
don`t –I`ve never seen anything like this.


HAYES: Much more of that interview ahead. The President is due right here
in Las Vegas tomorrow to meet with victims and first responders. This
morning, he told reporters he`ll eventually get around to talking gun


TRUMP: Look, we have a tragedy. We`re going to do – and what happened in
Las Vegas is in many ways a miracle. The Police Department has done such
an incredible job. And we`ll be talking about gun laws as time goes by.


HAYES: But in talking points given out to political allies which were
obtained by NBC News, the White House argues, “When it comes to gun control
let`s be clear, new laws won`t stop a madman committed to harming innocent
people, they will curtail the freedoms of law-abiding citizens.” There`s
about as little appetite for a real gun safety debate among Republican
Lawmakers including those who represent Nevada.


SEN. DEAN HELLER (R), NEVADA: That dialogue does need to occur but I don`t
think now is the time for this. You know, we have a lot of victims, we
have a lot of survivors.

MCCONNELL: Yes, I think it`s particularly inappropriate to politicize an
event like this. It just happened within the last day and a half. It`s
entirely premature to be discussing about legislative solutions if any.

REP. MARK AMODEI (R), NEVADA: There`s time in the coming weeks to find
those answers and do those sorts of things that we need to do and see what
the lessons are learned. But I think right now it`s just that, you know,
the humility, thoughts, and prayers to those folks that are affected.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R) LOUISIANA: I`m not for changing the law right now.
I am against politicizing this.


HAYES: According to Senator John Thune, the third-ranking Republican in
the Senate, it`s on all of us in the public to learn how to live with the
threat of gun violence.


SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: All of us want to do everything we can
to prevent tragedies like that from happening again. You know, it`s an
open society. And when somebody does what he wants to do. It`s going to
be hard for everything. But I think people have to be – are going to have
to take steps in their own lives to take precautions and protect
themselves. And in situations like that, you know, try and stay safe. As
somebody said, get small.


HAYES: Senator Richard Blumenthal is a Democrat from Connecticut, site of
the Sandy Hook School shooting almost five years ago. Senator, first I`d
like to get your response to your colleague`s advice to “get small,” that
people should think about their personal actions in how to avoid getting

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D), CONNECTICUT: Chris, America is not small. We
have big events, we take pride in our sports and entertainment and
concerts. And it`s on us to take action to eliminate gun violence. And as
for now being premature, our thoughts and prayers certainly go out to the
families today and yesterday were absolutely painful in recalling that day
in Newtown years ago. I was with a number of the families tonight. But we
should honor the victims by action. We should honor the families by
stronger measures, to make America safer, and it`s within our power to do
so, not think small.

HAYES: I want to present what seems to me the only sort of salvageable
core point, and it`s a profound one, of people being very honest about the
price of freedom. The idea that in a free society, you do not have a
police state, certain risks will happen. You want to have, for instance,
open public events where people can go publicly and not have to check
everyone`s name or have everybody going through metal detectors all the
time. And that essentially, this is a tolerable risk in a free society.
What do you say to that?

BLUMENTHAL: We have a death rate from gun violence that is way higher than
any other open society among industrial nations. 90-plus people every day
die in America as a result of gun violence which is a rate that is
astronomically higher than others`. And so we have the power, and I
respect the second amendment, but we have the authority under that
amendment to take action that would ban, for example, the assault weapons
and the bump stocks and the high-capacity magazines that are essential to
many of these mass killings. And to impose background checks to keep guns
out of the hands of dangerous people, close loopholes that will make us
safer. We will prevent every death as a result of gun violence, but we can
dramatically reduce it. And we should not settle, America should not be a
smaller nation because we are reduced by fear and trepidation simply
because dangerous people have such free access to guns.

HAYES: You just mentioned the second amendment. And notwithstanding the
court`s jurisprudence on this matter, you personally, do you believe the
constitution protects the freedom to assemble an arsenal of 42 guns and
thousands of rounds of ammo? Is that part of what the Constitution

BLUMENTHAL: In no way does the second amendment prevent the United States
Congress from banning assault weapons. They are weapons of war. They were
designed to kill and maim human beings, not to hunt or do recreation. And
bump stocks simply enable people to evade the law by converting those
semiautomatics into automatics and do the kind of carnage that we saw so
unspeakably the night before last. And as for the high-capacity magazines,
I know no hunter who uses a high-capacity magazine. So the second
amendment permits reasonable, commonsense measures. The United States
Constitution has said there is a second amendment right. But Americans, 90
percent of all Americans, believe that background checks should be done to
keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. And in fact, the law right
now, and it`s been upheld, forbids certain people to have weapons, like
people with felony records. So the second amendment is the law of the land
but it is not absolute.

HAYES: When your colleagues talk about politicizing this, when they talk
about now being the not right – now being not the right time, do you think
they`re fundamentally being disingenuous or do you think that`s an earnest

BLUMENTHAL: The time for euphemisms and evasion is over. The time for
action is now. My heart –

HAYES: That`s not an answer to the question, though.

BLUMENTHAL: Well, I think that the time for action is now and would not
involve politicizing this horrific tragedy. You know, the night after the
Sandy Hook tragedy, I went to one of the many calling hours that I did for
the parents. And I approached one of the moms to express my condolences
and to say when you`re ready, we should consider what the next steps are to
prevent this kind of tragedy. And she said, and I`ll never forget the
tears in her eyes. “I`m ready now.” Honoring those victims is not
politicizing this tragedy. It is to take action to prevent these tragedies
in the future.

HAYES: Senator Richard Blumenthal, I appreciate your time tonight.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

HAYES: David Chipman is a former Special Agent of the ATF who now works
for the gun safety group started by former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords and
Jason Johnson, Politics Editor for the Root and MSNBC Political Analyst.
And David, let me start with you. You saw I think what happens here, which
is a sort of argument on principle about one of open society`s willing to
tolerate one is trying our constitution, that slides into these technical
questions. And those technical questions are a terrain that the NRA is
very effective at battling on, even when the commonsense argument for, say,
you know, the device that converts a semi to something that could sort of
fire automatically doesn`t seem particularly compelling. Do the terms of
that debate end up being self-defeating?

DAVID CHIPMAN, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT, ATF: I think so. I think when I talk
about gun violence, you know, I rarely actually talk about guns. I talk
about the shared belief that as Americans we have to have the courage to
figure out reasonable ways to keep guns out of the hands of people who will
inflict harm on our nation. This notion that gun laws don`t work, you know
– I just simply reject. I dedicated 25 years of my life on the front
lines serving as a federal agent where on a daily basis I was arresting and
bringing into courts people I know would have killed someone that night if
we hadn`t have acted. Now I`m not naive. I know that there are gaps in
these laws and that`s what we talk about, these gaps.

Las Vegas, you know, the first thing that I thought about was, isn`t it
interesting that we`ve been fighting against the gun lobby, who doesn`t
want gun dealers to tell government when someone buys more than one long
gun in a five-day period like they have to report for handguns. It would
have been interesting for the government to know that someone had amassed
this arsenal. Now perhaps there would have been non-issues of concern but
it might be worth the conversation. And I think our law enforcement, we
need to trust them to have conversations, to investigate things. If not,
really ATF stands for After The Fact. And our law enforcement is just
coming in after something horrible has happened. I think our government
has a responsibility to keep our citizens safe. And we have to balance
that with freedom and responsibility.

HAYES: Jason, one of the things that happen in these discussions, you saw
the White House talking points, I`m not sure if you saw them, they invoked
Chicago and Baltimore, which is a very common trope. These are places that
have very strict gun laws. Obviously, the high rates of gun violence that
are largely committed by illegal guns. But there is this thing that
happens which is, attention focuses on the gun in instances like this
because the sheer horror of this particular event is so astounding. But
it`s a mismatch to what the daily horror of gun violence is in communities
like Chicago and Baltimore.

JASON JOHNSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, right. And remember, the
only reason that the Republicans and the Trump administration mentioned
Chicago and Baltimore is black people, race, let`s talk about something
else other than the issue that`s important. Look, right now is the time
that you have to actually talk about functional policy. If you see a car
accident, that`s when you should talk about safety belts. If your house
burns down, that`s when you should talk about fire alarms. We should be
talking about practical ways to prevent this from happening. I don`t think
it`s a good idea for us to just throw up or hands in society and say, well,
getting shot randomly when you go to a shopping mall or casino is something
perfectly reasonable.

And I think, Chris, you brought up a really interesting point when you`re
talking to the Senator earlier. Part of the issue is the refusal on the
part of some pro – some advocates for gun control to simply say, the other
side is lying. The other side is being disingenuous. The other side is
trying to avoid the issue. They want to talk about everything else other
than the fact that you have too many people in this country who have
dangerous guns and that poses a threat to all of us. And until we can get
to that core level of this conversation, we end up spinning in circles in
every five to six months hundreds and hundreds of people are negatively
affected and many dies.

HAYES: David, I think a lot of people have been looking at the reporting
on the individual here who committed this atrocity and saying, God, 52
guns. But it`s actually – if I`m not mistaken, I think the median number
of guns in a gun-owning household is eight at this moment? That`s partly
due to the fact that fewer and fewer households are gun-owning households
but the households that do own guns own large arsenals. What does – what
does that mean, that 3 percent of American adults own 50 percent of
America`s civilian guns?

CHIPMAN: Yes, my experiences is that some Americans really value the right
to own guns. They collect them. They even amass them for a whole host of
different reasons. And they`re very intense about their beliefs. You
know, what I try to strive to talk to people, I mean, I`m a concealed carry
owner, I carried a gun for my safety, for 25 years on the job. I think
most Americans are in the middle, which is we recognize you know, that as
Americans we exercise rights, we may buy guns for a whole host of reasons.
But with that comes a responsibility. If you`re going to carry a gun
outside your home, you`re going to require training. If you want to buy a
gun or sell a gun, perhaps you have to fill out a form or pass a background
check. You know, to me a lot of the people who value the right to have a
gun seem to not want to exercise the responsibilities that help cops keep
people safe.

And so to me, when someone says, hey, it`s inconvenient to fill out a
background check or fill out a federal form, or it`s inconvenient to have
to answer the questions of cops. Look, I can tell you what inconvenient
is. Inconvenient is waking up at 6:00 in the morning, putting on your
bullet-proof vest and kicking down a door to get someone who already has a
gun and hope you don`t get killed. Inconvenient is what happened to my
boss, Gabby Giffords. Inconvenient is what has happened to all the people
in Las Vegas. Like – so, to me, most Americans, I believe are with us in
saying, hey, look, there are a whole host of reasonable things that we can
do. And I hope we start having the courage to really talk about it.

HAYES: Right. Jason, you agree, Jason?

JOHNSON: Yes, I agree. Look, there are so many restrictions that we think
are reasonable in this country. We drive a car, you have to have
insurance. If I use my credit card too much over the weekend, it stops and
the bank calls me and says, is this really you? Why is it that that I`m
able to buy 12 guns and no agency calls and says, hey, are you about to do
something dangerous? These are reasonable things that we should expect for
our own safety.

HAYES: All right, David Chipman, Jason Johnson, thank you both.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

CHIPMAN: Thank you.

HAYES: Still to come, from a war zone overseas to the American war zone
right behind me here in Las Vegas, my interview with the security team
working the concert who say Sunday`s shooting was worse than anything
they`ve ever seen.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have multiple casualties! GSW to the medical check.
Multiple casualties.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be advised it is automatic fire, fully automatic fire
from an elevated position, take cover.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: GSW to the chest, legs, severed arteries, (INAUDIBLE)
medical check (INAUDIBLE) medical check.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got about 40 to 50 people who are pinned against
this wall.


HAYES: Over the police dispatch, it sounded like what you`d expect in a
war zone. Automatic fire from an elevated position. A new video tonight
filmed by a woman who took cover in the bleacher shows people risking their
lives to administer CPR to victims in front of the stage as shots were
still raining down from above. After this break, my conversation with two
concert security guards who were treating the wounded on what felt like a


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re performing CPR on one person and you`re doing
compressions and breathing, compressions, breathing, checking for pulse.
And then after doing that two or three times – there`s no pulse. We were
having to literally get on up move on to the next person.




battlefield. You know, this was something we respond to shootings and car
wrecks and things that I know to our time that are tragic events. However
this one, the sheer magnitude of the amount of people, how it went down,
the elevated gunfire, the massive amounts of gunfire, it was literally a


HAYES: Fire Chief of Clark County Greg Cassell was not only one describing
the scene in Las Vegas Sunday night as a battleground. First responders,
survivors, members of the bands from the outdoor concert in Las Vegas were
calling it a war zone. Earlier today, I got a chance to speak with two men
who worked security at Sunday`s event. One of whom had served in the Army
in Afghanistan, Darius Harper and Dillon Christos who are part of the
extraction team at the concert on Sunday. An extraction team is made up of
security guards who remove anyone who is intoxicated or unwell or causing
trouble. And despite their years and years of experience, nothing prepared
them for what they encountered that night.


HARPER: We initially thought it was fireworks. And we thought it was
fireworks and you know, I even looked at him, I said, you know, we got
pyro? He goes, I don`t know, do we have pyro? Because we were thinking
fireworks. So I looked over, just looking there to see if there was
anything there, there was nothing there. Then the second burst came in and
then we realized it was gunfire.

HAYES: So, in that moment you were thinking, they didn`t tell us about
pyro, and you`re looking to see where the light flares are.

DILLON CHRISTOS, SECURITY GUARD: Yes, where the flashes in the sky.

HAYES: And then in that second volley, that`s when it clicks in your head.
When you hear that second volley when you realize what`s happening, what
did you do?

CHRISTOS: We kind of looked at each other in shock because at that point
it sounded as if it was inside the park.

HAYES: So, you thought it might be someone with a weapon there in the

CHRISTOS: Correct. And at that point, we turned and headed into the

HARPER: We`re just seeing gunshot injury after gunshot. There was a
couple of people lying on the ground, unresponsive. And we figured they
had been deceased. So at that point in time, we did what we could to you
know, get people in the medic tent, do triage as much as we possibly could.
There`s still more injuries down by the following gates so we ran down
there. I remember having to grab anything we could to perform as a gurney
.so we used anything that had wheels on it, trash cans –

CHRISTOS: Wheelbarrows.

HAYES: And injured people – you`re putting bodies on there?

CHRISTOS: Literally putting them in and wheeling them out, just to get
them out.

HARPER: One young lady actually, she came out of nowhere, and she said,
I`ve been shot. And she just like, collapsed right on me. And you know,
we did what we could (INAUDIBLE) I saw shot through her arm. Gunshot wound
to her upper left arm. We treated her and I found myself you know, without
medical bandages or anything like that so I was literally taking clothing
and what was left around the (INAUDIBLE) performed tourniquet –

HAYES: You used a knife?

HARPER: Yes, I used a knife to cut tourniquets and whatever I could to
stop as much bleeding as I possibly could. And after we did that, he
literally – I just stopped, we started stopping vehicles, just throwing
people in vehicles, saying get them to the hospital as fast as you can.

CHRISTOS: When you`re performing CPR on one person and you`re doing
compressions and breathing, compressions, breathing, checking for pulse and
then after doing that two or three times, there`s no pulse. We were having
to literally get up and move on to the next person. You know, you come
across a woman who – you don`t even know it`s a woman because there`s a
man over her, just sobbing because it`s his wife or his girlfriend. The
people, I mean, really, it`s not even – I mean, the first responders did
awesome but the people inside the event, inside the concert, there was so
many people that stepped and up just said, hey, what can I do?

HARPER: There were former law enforcement, former veterans, off-duty
paramedics, nurses, which did awesome job in the triage area. People just
coming together, just amazing to see how you know, people would just say,
look what can we do? You know, I mean, offering their own shirts to
provide tourniquets, offering you know, to help carry people out. And
individuals taking it upon themselves to run right back into the venue.

CHRISTOS: There was a guy who used his own belt as a tourniquet on himself
and kept telling, you know, the medics, don`t worry about me and went back

HAYES: You`ve served in war, you guys have – you worked security detail
for years. You`ve been through stuff, I imagine. Have you ever been in
anything like this?

HARPER: I was involved in a lethal encounter a few years ago. It was in
the line of duty incident. But nothing like this. You know, nothing like
a barrage of gunfire coming in, you got multiple casualties, mass
casualties coming in. I mean, you know, law enforcement, firefighters,
ambulance, medics, you all prepare for those mass but I don`t think anyone
was really prepared. You know, you train for it, though you `re really
prepared, you don`t know you`re really prepared until you see it. And I
can honestly tell you, after everything in the training I`ve done and been
through, I mean, I don`t – I`ve never seen anything like this.

CHRISTOS: I`ve been where there have been shootings but you knew the
direction they were coming in.

HARPER: Yes, you had an idea.

CHRISTOS: You knew at least the area of where the suspect was. You could
tell where the gunfire was coming from.

HAYES: Your son called you?

HARPER: Yes, my son, he`s in Afghanistan right now. He called me the
following day just to, you know, check on dad, make sure it was OK.

HAYES: What did he say to you?

HARPER: He says, “Dad, you`re taking more fire over there than I am over
here, you know, what`s going on?” He was just happy to hear that I was OK.


HAYES: Ahead, the President`s surreal, baffling visit to Puerto Rico. How
he tried to turn it into a personal victory lap. That moment right after


HAYES: Donald Trump will be here in Las Vegas tomorrow, but today he
visited Puerto Rico to tour the hurricane-ravaged island and meet with
residents and local officials who have been begging for help for more than
a week. This is what they got at the first event after the president


TRUMP: Brock Long has been through a lot. Brock has been unbelievable.
Your governor has been who I didn`t know. I heard very good things about
him. He`s not even from my party and he started right at the beginning
appreciating what we did. Right from the beginning, this governor did not
play politics. He didn`t play it at all. He was saying it like it was,
and he was giving us the highest grades.

So, Congresswoman Jennifer Gonzalez-Colon, who I watched the other day, and
she was saying such nice things about all of the people that have worked so

I saw those comments and everybody saw those comments and we really
appreciate it.

I also want to thank Linda McMahon, small business. She has done an
incredible job. Built a great company with her husband, Vince McMahon. We
want to thank you, Linda, very much.

Mick Mulvaney is here, right there. And mick is in charge of a thing
called the budget. Now, I hate to tell you, Puerto Rico, but you`ve thrown
our budget a little out of whack, because we`ve spent a lot of money on
Puerto Rico. And that`s fine. We`ve saved a lot of lives. If you look at
the – every
death is a horror, but if you look at a real catastrophe like Katrina, and
you look at the tremendous hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds
of people that died – what is your death count as of
this moment? 17?


TRUMP: 16 people certified. 16 people versus in the thousands. You can
be very proud of all of your people, all of our people, working together.


HAYES: After teasing the Puerto Ricans assembled about how much their
disaster was costing the federal government, the president bragged about
spending hundreds of millions of dollars on new jets for the air force.

Now, the president was correct about the relatively low number of deaths in
Puerto Rico confirmed this afternoon, although tonight that number has now
been updated to 34. And as Vox reports, Puerto Rico has been slow to
update their death toll and experts expect the number to shoot higher as
more information comes in.

Up ahead, Congressman Luis Gutierrez on what is really happening in Puerto
Rico, next.



TRUMP: I think it`s now acknowledged what a great job we`ve done. And
people are looking at that. And in Texas and in Florida we get an A-plus.
And I`ll tell you what, I think we`ve done just as good in Puerto Rico, and
it`s actually a much tougher situation. We need their truck drivers, their
drivers have to start driving trucks, we have to do that. So, on a local
level they have to give us more help.

I appreciate very much the governor and his comments. He has said, we have
done an incredible job, and that`s the truth.


HAYES: Donald Trump visited Puerto Rico today, which is still struggling
after being hit by
Hurricane Maria, almost two weeks ago. And after lavishly praising his own
administration at a press event, the president visited a relief center.
Here he is handing out rolls of paper towels, tossing them into the crowd
as if he were shooting a basketball.

The president also handed out flashlights while telling the folks in the
room, you don`t need them anymore. The vast majority of American citizens
in Puerto Rico do need flashlights, because more than 90 percent of the
island remains without power and more than half of households still don`t
have clean running water in the United States of America.

New York Times reporting today that because supermarkets can`t access
computer systems, food stamps are unusable. Many of those families having
to rely on neighbors for food.

But much of that didn`t seem to reach the president today.

NBC`s Hallie Jackson tweeting that, quote, POTUS on Air Force One just now
asked about any
constructive criticism he heard today. We only heard thank yous from the
people of Puerto Rico.

Congressman Luis Gutierrez met with FEMA and local government officials
when he was in Puerto Rico this weekend, he joins me now. Congressman,
your reaction to the president saying he didn`t get constructive criticism,
he just got thank yous. People saying he`s doing a great job?

REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ, (D) ILLINOIS: How sad, how disgraceful, that when
people are suffering so greatly, when there is such pain and anguish and
fear about what the future presents to
millions of American citizens on that island, that he would act with such
folly and silliness.

This is very serious. And I think the president of the United States, I
hope that on his way back, if he`s already here, maybe tomorrow, go by the
Vietnam Memorial and see the hundreds of names of Puerto Ricans that are
etched in that wall, who gave up their lives, that didn`t say they had bone
spurs, they responded and they gave up the ultimate tax of their life –
Korea, World War II.

Then there was no doubt, they were citizens when they were called to defend
the nation. They were citizens, then there was no question, there was no
tallying how much is a life worth. They paid the ultimate tax.

And so what an offense to the people of Puerto Rico.

I just want to say, Chris, you know what I saw? I saw people coming
together as neighbors, giving the very little that they had so that their
neighbor could survive. Cobbling together a unity that I`ve never seen
before. I`ve never been prouder of my Puerto Rican heritage or of the
people of Puerto Rico.

I only hope that if I were ever to confront that in my city of Chicago,
that the same dignity and the same poise would be that that I would see
from my neighbors and my fellow Chicagoans. That`s how proud I am of them.

HAYES: What I have heard from people that I`ve been in touch with on the
island and from other reports is that there really is this bottleneck
problem. And it doesn`t really seem like it`s gotten a whole lot better.

And it`s worrying that there are supplies, there are things that are
needed, and getting them out
to the people that need them has been the obstacle, the last mile problem.

Have you heard that as well? Is the federal government doing enough to make
that happen?

GUTIERREZ: Look, we should have a carrier out there with a couple of
hundred helicopters sending in relief.

Chris, what the people have to understand is the topography of Puerto Rico.

You think of Puerto Rico, you think of beaches, you think of ocean.

No. The majority of the island is mountainous. And there are hundreds of
thousands of people. The bridges have been washed away and the roads, and
they`re trapped.

What we need is to build those temporary bridges, go in there and rescue
them, and then put them in a safe place.

I wish, Chris, you and I could just look at the e-mails that I get from my
constituents, which I
must believe are being replicated.

There was a woman, she buried her 58-year-old brother. He died the day of
the hurricane. Three days later, there was no place to put him. She buried
him in her backyard.

Another couple finally made to it Puerto Rico because their mother had
died. By the time they got there, she was already cremated because they
couldn`t keep her any longer.

The death toll is going to increase. This is what the hurricane has taken
away, so many precious
lives. But guess what, that same hurricane will take away more lives
because of the inaction after the terrible fury of that hurricane and the
wind and the rain.

And that is what is so regrettable. We cannot stop a natural disaster from
occurring like a
hurricane. What we can do is be prepared and not start talking about, well,
this is going to cost us
so much. What`s the life of a human being worth? What`s the life?

It`s priceless. And that is something that I think this president just
never is going to understand.

HAYES: All right, Congressman Luis Gutierrez, who was in Puerto Rico over
the weekend, thanks for making the time.

GETIERREZ: Thank you.

HAYES: Still to come, with gun stocks up in the wake of the deadly
shooting here behind me
in Las Vegas, I went to a local gun shop to talk about why people are
coming into the store and why they need more than one gun, just ahead.


HAYES: Why do people routinely buy more guns after horrific mass

I speak about that and other things with the manager of a Las Vegas gun
store I spoke to today
just after this break.


there is scary right now. They`re seeing all this chaos. Not necessarily
with what the tragedy that just happened, but in general.

I mean, it`s a high crime rate, the news. So, they want something for their
own home protection.



HAYES: After the horrific massacre here in Las Vegas, we once again saw a
troubling phenomenon. A jump in gun stocks following the historical pattern
we`ve seen after a mass shooting.

Traders appear to be anticipating an increase in gun sales, and with good
reason. After the San Bernardino mass shooting, for example, in December
2015, handgun sales spiked 62% according to one gun industry expert.

After that San Bernardino attack, I had visited a local gun shop to find
out what was on the mind of the people who sell firearms. And earlier today
I did the same here in Las Vegas, stopping into Briarhawk Firearms &
Ammunition to speak with store manager Art Netherton.


HAYES: I`ve been in other gun shops, particularly in San Bernardino I was
in a gun shop a few days after that attack, and they were getting a lot of


HAYES: He said that when something like that`s on the news, you get people
calling who feel upset and scared.


HAYES: Asking about purchasing a weapon.

Has that been your experience?

NETHERTON: We get that on a daily basis here. Today has really not been
that much different, other than a few calls. Not much different than our
average day, as far as those kinds of calls.

HAYES: You got a call from a guy who said he`d seen on the news that he
could just come in and buy a handgun.

NETHERTON: That`s correct, we had a caller who just called in who said he
heard on the media that you could just walk in and purchase a gun, over the
counter, no background check, no

That`s one of the problems we deal with is the misinformation. We go
through rigorous background checks. We call the Department of Public
Safety. They run local, state, and federal. And you`ve got to pass the
background check. They give us one of three answers. Yes, no, or three-day

HAYES: And that`s for any gun?


HAYES: The way that guns operate in our country, is like there`s like
these two sides, and I think it`s political but it`s also cultural, right?
There`s people who walk around who don`t have guns, they don`t understand
why other people have guns, they think guns are scary, their interface with
guns is they see the nightly news and someone got shot.

Then there`s people that have a lot of guns and it`s part what was their
culture is.

What do you want to say to the people on the other side of that? Who think
like, why does anyone need these things? Why do you need five of them? What
do you say to them?

NETHERTON: Why do you need two cars? Why do you need anything? People are
They`re shooters, they`re hobbyists, they get into it as a sport. That`s
primarily where – but you know, usually we – the knee-jerk reaction is we
need to pass another law.

Well, I`m prior – have prior law enforcement experience. I can tell you,
you know, what the philosophy is, I don`t understand it, because, oh, the
criminals ignore the first 2 or 300 laws we pass, so this one is going to
scare them so bad they`re going to run to the local PD and turn in their


HAYES: And yet, the other side of this, talking to gun owners, you guys do
have a fair amount of regulation, and you fold it into your point of sale.


HAYES: It`s burdensome on one level, but also at this point like the
background check is like, that`s just what you do, right?

NETHERTON: It`s what we do, and we keep those paper records, we are
required to keep by the ATF for 20 years. We thoroughly co-operate with all
federal, state and local regulations. We do what`s right and we do what is
right by our conscience.

If we had somebody that may even pass a background check and we still think
this just doesn`t
feel right, we`re probably going to turn them away.

We had an incident awhile back that one of our people here just eluded to a
minute ago, we had a young fellow that came in and he had bandage on his
head, he was just beaten up and wanted to buy a
gun. And we said no, sorry. Come back in three or four days when you cooled
off and maybe we`ll talk to you.

You don`t – you have to be a psychologist and a good judge of people to
actually be behind
these counters. You just don`t sell somebody something.

You know, what is your need? What are you going to use it for? Why do you
want it? Those are the questions we ask on a daily basis.

HAYES: If I come in and said I never handled a gun in my life.

NETHERTON: What do you want to use it for?

HAYES: What`s the answer for that?

NETHERTON: Typically it`s self-defense. Everything out there is scary
right now. They are seeing all this chaos. Not necessarily with what the
tragedy that just happened but in general.

High crime rate. The news. So they want something for their own home


HAYES: My thanks to Art Netherton who was very, very gracious with his
time today. Thank you very much for making the time.

Up next, Lawrence O`Donnell joins me to talk about the perverse way in
which mass shootings can act essentially as advertisement for guns. Don`t
go away.


HAYES: We are back live from Las Vegas with our continuing coverage of the
horrific mass shooting here that left nearly 600 people dead or wounded.

I`m joined by our own Lawrence O`Donnell, host of MSNBC`s, The Last Word.
It`s good to have you here.

There`s a real phenomenon that we`ve seen after mass shootings, not just
the stocks going up in anticipation but actual gun sales going up in the
wake of that.

LAWERENCE O`DONNELL, THE LAST WORD: It`s a market that can`t learn
apparently, because it seems to be a reaction to the idea that oh, well,
now they are going to legislate some kind of
control that will prevent me from buying that thing that I`m going to the
gun store today to buy, and we never do that. We never legislate that

So it`s a reaction to something that we have proven won`t happen, and the
market including the stock market continues – the stock market is actually
fairly rational because what they are doing is they are rushing to those
stocks because they know the demand for the product will go up temporarily,
so they rush into them temporary. I think the big movers know that they
will move out of those stocks because there is going to be a little bump
right now.

But, you know, Conan O`Brien said the other night that when did this become
a ritual? And it makes you stop and think about all of the components of
the ritual, which include what happens at the gun stores and what happens
in the stock market.

HAYES: What you say about regulation, I remember talking to a gun shop
owner in Maryland
who talked about after Barack Obama was elected, it was just like he never
had better business. Those first few months, you know, was like, get them
while you can.

But there is also another aspect which I think Art talked about. What is
the profile of your first time gun purchaser? So there is people who are
like, I grew up around guns. I feel comfortable around them. I want them.

But the person that says, I wake up on a Tuesday, today is the day I need
one and it is – it`s fear, right? It`s this idea that like, when you watch
that happen, you think to yourself, well, Jesus, maybe I should –

O`DONNELL: Well then totally, that`s what you pick up, is that that first
time gun buyer is in
reaction to something like this. Including, by the way, something like
this, and it doesn`t mean that the gun buyer thinks, if I had been at the
concert and I had a handgun it would have been different. That isn`t it.

It`s that this delivers a message of the scope of danger in the world and
it reminds people of other closer dangers. I mean –

HAYES: Talk about chaos. That was so striking to me. The world is on fire.
It does feel that way if you cover or watch the news.

O`DONNELL: Yeah. And fear in the immediate aftermath of these things is
not – doesn`t know any real boundaries.

I mean friends of mine here in Las Vegas who kept their kids home from
school on Monday and I – and I didn`t get into the discussion of why
because I knew that their reaction at that point was so raw that, even if
the news media was saying there is absolutely nothing for anyone to worry
about in Las Vegas today, and there wasn`t the slightest hint that there
was anything to worry about at the school, I can understand why people
would extend that fear into what`s going to happen at school today.

HAYES: And there is also this thing that happens, and we are part of the
coverage here, you
know, when do you see lots of images of guns? Right?

You see them. You see the object. There is some sort of – They are well
designed, they`re sleek. There is some sort of power they weld.

And it`s like smoking back in the movies, right? It`s like, everyone in the
movie is smoking, you know, well, maybe I`ll smoke. That`s part of it, too.

O`DONNELL: Yeah, you can see there is – for some gun owners, including
this guy in the hotel, we don`t know when the slippery slope began for him
into the madness. The mental illness spot that he got to with that massive
possession of firearms that created this moment.

Those two things had to happen. It wasn`t just that he lost his mind. He
had to also be on a slippery slope of losing his mind in the country where
there was unlimited access for him to get guns because he was going to pass
any background check apparently.

There wouldn`t be anything that would slow him down at any point. And so
what – if we can
ever put his life together so that we could watch where this – where that
slope turned bad, was it at the fifth gun? And did that coincide with some
negative event in his life and what drove him up to the 40

HAYES: Yeah. And the motive on this, we should say, at this hour remains,
sort of…

O`DONNELL: Well, the motive for me is always the same. It`s a person at
that point on that day if not before, completely lost his mind. Whether
that drove that person at a young age into an
elementary school to kill people, or a movie theater or here, this person
was stark raving mad by the time he was looking out the window.

HAYES: Lawrence O`Donnell, thanks for being with me.

Don`t go anywhere because Lawrence will be here right back, exactly one
hour to host a live edition of The Last Word.

That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now.


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