All in with Chris Hayes, Transcript 2/10/2017
Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
Date: February 10, 2017
Guest: Eddie Johnson, Andrea Zopp, Ameena Matthews, Lori Lightfoot, Camiella Williams
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: April Ryan whose new book is “Mama`s Knee” –
“At Mama`s Knee: Mothers and Race in Black and White”, what`s it like to be
an American from a different perspective. And that`s Hardball for now.
Thanks for being with us. “ALL IN” with Chris Hayes, I say, starts right
now with his big town meeting from Chi-Town.
ANNOUNCER: America`s third largest city has been reduced to a sound bite.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Violence in Chicago is on the rise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 90 people were killed between Friday and Sunday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today`s 700 homicides is unacceptable.
ANNOUNCER: But Chicago`s tragedies and triumphs are real human stories,
not just talking points. From segregations, to jobs, to policing, to gun
violence, finding solutions is more complicated than a president`s tweet.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What`s going on in Chicago?
ANNOUNCER: This is an MSNBC special Town Hall event. Chicago in the
crosshairs. From the South Shore Cultural Center in Chicago, here is Chris
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Good evening from Chicago. I`m Chris Hayes, and
I am absolutely thrilled to be here for a special Town Hall event in this
incredible city. It`s America`s third largest city, and it`s special to
me. But lately, as someone here put it, it`s become the poster child for
violence in America. This is due in part to a real surge of violence here,
but also imparts the perception of this city as expressed so loudly and
frequently by the new President of the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: In Chicago, they`ve had thousands of shootings, thousands. And I`m
saying, where is this? Is this a war-torned country? What are we doing?
By the way, toughest gun laws in the world, Chicago, and people are
shooting themselves all over the place, OK?
The problem is not that there are too many police. The problem is that
they are not enough police.
It`s worse than some of the places that we – that we read about in the
Middle East. We have wars going on. It`s so sad, Chicago has become so
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Last month, after apparently watching a news report about the
surging crime here, new president took to Twitter, as he likes to do, to
threaten if Chicago doesn`t fix the horrible carnage going on, I will send
in the feds. The Chicago having become a presidential punching bag,
frankly, wanted to come to the city and give officials and activists and
others who actually live here a platform to respond to the president, to
talk about the real problems here and the work toward real solutions.
Perhaps the president will see this because we have a lot of voices in this
room that deserve to be heard. I want to introduce a few right now.
Joining me now on stage, four of those voices, Andrea Zopp, who is the
Deputy Mayor of Chicago. She`s also a former President and CEO of the
Chicago Urban League. I have here with me Eddie Johnson, Superintendent of
the Chicago Police Department. It`s good to have you here, sir.
EDDIE JOHNSON, CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT SUPERINTENDANT: Thanks for having
HAYES: Ameena Matthews, founder of Pause4Peace, and someone who have a lot
of experience in trying to interrupt violence that has happened in – here
in Chicago. And, Lori Lightfoot, President of the Chicago Police Board,
Chair of the Police Accountability Task Force. Good to have you here.
Deputy Mayor, maybe I`ll start with you. I understand that – I understand
why people in Chicago don`t want to get into like a tweet war with the
President of the United States. Right? Or just – and I think there`s a
little kind of shrug off the shoulders of these invocations. But to people
watching right now who have a very narrow sense of what Chicago is and what
it`s experiencing right now, what do you want them to know, what do you
want the President to know?
ANDREA ZOPP, CHICAGO DEPUTY MAYOR AND FORMER PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE
CHICAGO URBAN LEAGUE: Well, I want the President to know – first of all,
this isn`t a topic really for tweeting. It`s a serious issue. We have
challenges here as we have across the country, with rise in violence. What
I want them to know is that we`re working to address that violence. We
have a plan and plans in place that we`re doing, and we`re going to talk
about that tonight.
What I want them to also know that this is a city that`s a lot more than
just the gun violence. We have a lot of people who are committed to the
city and to making it a better place to live. Many of them are here
tonight in this room.
HAYES: Do you feel, Commissioner, like – how do you feel, as the person
who is tasked with police in this city and running a police department
here? What is your response to invocations of violence in Chicago by
folks? And not just the President, by people generally out there?
JOHNSON: Well, what I want people to know is that, listen, Chicago has its
challenges. But let`s frame it properly. When you look at violent crime
across America, Chicago is the only major city that saw an uptick. Per
capita, we`re about in the middle of the pack in terms of violent crime.
That`s the one thing that I want people to know. The second thing is …
HAYES: So, do you feel like you`re under – do you feel like Chicago,
which I think is around 9 in the homicide rate right now in of the 25 major
cities, do you feel like you`re being unfairly singled out?
JOHNSON: Well, yes, in some aspects because, you know, the violence in
Chicago – we have our challenges. You know, that`s no secret. But I want
people to know that the city as whole is in pretty good shape. Five
districts out of 22 police districts in this – in this city actually drive
the violence. And out of those five, three – two on the west side and one
on the south side, are the ones that drive most of our violent crime.
HAYES: Do people – does that resonate with people in the room? Is that
generally the feeling? You know, I mean, I was looking at – I was looking
at some maps. And one of the things about what`s happening in Chicago is
an intensification of the inequality of violence. There are places, huge
blocks of the city, that have homicide rates that are safe as basically
anywhere in Canada. Right? And then there are parts that have
unbelievably high rates. How do you understand that sort of inequality
AMEENA MATTHEWS, PAUSE4PEACE FOUNDER: Well, it`s hard for me to understand
it, coming from a gentrified family. You know, I was the first black in a
– in an all-Lutheran school. You know, so I can`t understand the
segregation in this city that is so beautiful and that has been
historically just filled by us, African-American, Latinos, lower class,
middle lower class, upper lower class, and then there`s those communities
that you talked about that`s – like Canada.
So, we need to come together, and I can`t understand what is the whole
issue about if you don`t, we will. We have. We have taken care of our
community, even off the record, even off the clock. We made sure that,
yes, it`s – the numbers are unacceptable. However, in our community,
there`s people here that have done amazing work. And it has to be funded.
So, if you want to put funding in our community, make sure that each and
every one of our community activists, our humanitarians, our police, our
CPS, CPD, everything is funded. So, we can be able to maintain our own
HAYES: That gets to something, I think, about what the tenor of this is,
is like, you know, when the President talks about one of those folks, it`s
like, what are they doing? Like, everyone`s just sort of sitting around.
And no one – and you know, it hasn`t occurred to anyone here that the
levels of violence are unacceptable. Right? And that no one here is doing
anything about it. And how do you – Lori, how does that – how does that
hit you when you here that?
LORI LIGHTFOOT, CHICAGO POLICE BOARD PRESIDENT AND CHAIR OF THE POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY TASK FORCE: Well, I think that what`s most important, is to
really focus on what`s happening here, and engage in solutions to solve the
problems. The back and forth, the Twitter war, that doesn`t mean anything
to the most vulnerable people in some of the most crime-plagued
neighborhoods, and also some of our most impoverished neighborhoods. What
they look to leaders to do is to solve problems, not to paint them in two-
dimensional figures, but to come in, roll up their sleeves, and do the hard
work of moving forward in a – in a productive way.
HAYES: I want to take a show of hands just on this question about solving
problems. Right? And I want you to be honest, and I get a sense I think
of where folks in this room will be. But when you hear the President say
he`s going to send in the Feds, raise your hand if that sounds like a good
idea to you.
MATTHEWS: To do what?
HAYES: And how – raise your hand if – when you hear “send in the Feds”
you feel – that feels ominous, that feels like a threat. All right.
Well, if someone so-and-so needs to take over the police department.
What`s your response to that?
JOHNSON: Well, you know what, listen, CPD, you know, we have our
challenges and I would be the first to acknowledge we`ve done some things
in the past that were inappropriate. But that was the past. You know, my
challenge right now is to fix the issues. When I look out in the audience,
a lot of these folks out here in the audience right now I`ve worked with
since becoming Superintendent to make it better. You know, those things
didn`t occur overnight, and they`re not going to be fixed overnight. But
we have to acknowledge them and then move forward to correct the issue.
HAYES: I mean, I – yes. Give a round of applause, guys. There`s a –
there`s a thing – there`s a thing going on right now in American cities
that`s bigger than just Chicago. OK? Newly-confirmed Attorney General
Jeff Sessions talked about this today when he made his to the Department of
Justice – and I get where you guys are coming from, on this newly Attorney
General Jeff Sessions.
We have seen in the last two years, 2015, 2016, we have seen homicide
increases in many of the major cities in this country. And in some cases,
it`s been stark, places like St. Louis and Baltimore, which I`ve covered
from the very start. This is after a long period of historic decline.
What is your – Deputy Mayor, what is your understanding, what is your
theory of the case of what is happening?
ZOPP: Well, if the question was that – really that easy to answer,
hopefully we would be further along. It`s a tough question. I don`t think
there`s an easy answer. We`ve looked at the numbers. There – I don`t
think it came overnight, that`s the important thing. We have neighborhoods
that have been disinvested in, we`ve had schools that have been disinvested
in, we have lack of access to jobs and work. We`re seeing – we`re paying
for that over time. That didn`t happen yesterday or in the last five
Wait, let me just get – so, I think we – those are some of the things we
have to focus on. I also just want to circle back through to that federal
resources question that you asked about. Because there are federal
resources that we could use here that would help. Just take for example,
youth jobs. The feds have completely cut youth jobs. We have a huge youth
job program that the city funds, but we don`t get any federal support,
federal law enforcement support.
The U.S. Attorney`s office here has the lowest rate of gun prosecutions of
any U.S. Attorney`s office in the country. And so, we could use – there
is significant level of federal support that we could use to partner with
to address this issue. That`s what we`re looking for.
HAYES: Are you – what do you say to people who say you`re evading
responsibility by sort of pointing to the feds? And I`ve actually
interviewed the Mayor himself, and he`s talked about – he`s talked about
federal gun laws and things like that. But ultimately, a lot of that has
been consistent over the period of time that we`re talking, right? So what
do you think is changing here in this city?
ZOPP: Well, actually, first of all, not true. For example, just on youth
jobs, that`s been cut. But, we`re not evading the issue. We`re not
waiting for the feds. We haven`t stopped doing work. We have a plan, we
have a policing plan, we`ve invested in our officers, we`ve invested in
technology, we`ve invested in training. The Superintendent can talk to
some of the details of how they`re adjusting and changing policing to try
and address these crimes.
We`re investing in mentoring for youth to disrupt our young people going
into gangs. And we`re investing in neighborhoods, economic development and
job creation for people to help address this lack of opportunity. So,
we`re not waiting for the feds.
HAYES: All right. I want – there`s some – there are folks who – I want
to get to some of the folks in the room, and I know that you`ve been
through the ringer on this. You`re looking at me with a sort of –
ZOPP: I`m waiting.
HAYES: – anticipatory – I can hear the murmurs in the room about
investment. Let me talk to this gentleman over here.
Stand up for me, will you? Jedidiah Brown, right?
JEDIDIAH BROWN, YOUNG LEADERS ALLIANCE FOUNDER: Yes, sir.
HAYES: One of the reasons I wanted to talk to you is I saw a YouTube video
of you. My – I have a personal theory that part of the president`s beef
with Chicago is that when he tried to come here and talk in the primary –
do you remember this?
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: Yes.
HAYES: They`re like, “Yes, damn right, we remember that.”
HAYES: That is not – that is not necessarily the perception outside of
Chicago, I should say. Yes, there was a protest, he ended up not speaking,
there was – it got pretty gnarly, actually, and there was – there were
some punches thrown on both sides as far as I can tell from the videotape.
You actually rushed the stage at that event. Why did you do that?
BROWN: Well, definitely, we saw what campaign – what Donald Trump`s
campaign was doing all across the country. We`ve seen black bodies being
pushed around. We see – we saw people getting punched in the face. And I
didn`t shut down his rally, Chicago did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, that.
BROWN: Because we were not –
BROWN: – we were not – we were not going to allow – one thing that is
proven is that not only – Chicago does have its times, but Chicago is one
tough city. And we was not going to allow Donald Trump`s campaign to come
in our city and be unchallenged. And we stopped it.
HAYES: When you hear about what the deputy mayor is talking about in terms
of investment, you were – you were murmuring. I couldn`t tell whether
that was assent or dissent.
BROWN: We – there are a lot of people in this room that do a lot of great
work on the ground that have the heartbeat of this neighborhood. And
everything that the deputy mayor is saying, we have no clue about it,
because the mayor`s office has – the mayor`s office has not engaged the
communities that are –
BROWN: The mayor`s office has not – as a matter of fact, I`ll say it like
this. The mayor`s office has stopped reaching out to black voices ever
since he thought he would get cover for the cover-up of Laquan McDonald`s
BROWN: And those reserves, we don`t know anything about it. We can`t back
him up. We can`t tell you that it`s true, because it`s just not
matriculating down to the everyday people.
HAYES: OK, I want to give – I want to give the deputy mayor a chance to
HAYES: And let me just say this. And I want to say this for the record
and whomever watches this. There`s not a lot of cities that I could go to
where the mayor would send anyone to this Town Hall. And I`m serious about
that. Or the police commissioner. So I just want to be clear about the
fact that like we are having this conversation in this room right now
because they are at the table, all right?
LIGHTFOOT: So, look, you know, we don`t agree – we don`t agree on all
things, but the fact is, we`ve had conversations with Jedidiah and people
that he represents. In fact, Jedidiah and I were in the streets marching
to try and bring people together when we had a dispute in one of our
neighborhoods around – between our communities of color.
We sat in a room and talked with each other and with other people. He has
been in my office to talk about some of these issues. Now, have we fixed
everything? Absolutely not. Do we have a lot of work to do? Absolutely
have. But the idea that we`re not talking to people in the community is –
I just disagree with.
HAYES: OK, there is a lot of – one of the things that – one of the
things that Jedidiah brought up – and I know people out there have a lot
of opinions. One of the things Jedidiah brought up was Laquan McDonald.
And I think in many ways – in many ways, that hangs over everything that`s
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just brought it to a head.
HAYES: That just brought it to a head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of what`s been going on in here.
HAYES: So I want to – I want to talk about that. I want to – what I
want to do is I want to take a quick break, when I come back, talk a little
bit about the context that brought us here to this moment. Don`t go
anywhere if you`re watching at home. We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To President Trump, come here to Chicago. See what all
of these folks in this room, black, white, democrats, republicans, city
officials, civic leaders, are doing in this city.
ANNOUNCER: Our coverage of this special Town Hall (INAUDIBLE) Chicago
continues. Here again is Chris Hayes.
HAYES: The City of Chicago has a long and rich history, particularly here
on the South Side.
And here to talk a little bit more about that, my friend and colleague,
Trymaine Lee. Trymaine, you spent some time on the South Side the last few
TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: I had the opportunity to spend some
time with WBEZ reporter Natalie Moore. She wrote a fantastic book called
“The South Side.”
LEE: It`s really–
HAYES: Everybody, check out that book.
HAYES: Check out that book.
LEE: It`s a – it`s a rich look into how segregation shaped, not just the
South Side, but Chicago. We spent a lot of time talking about her
neighborhood of Chatham, of the rich legacy of black Chicago, but also some
of the struggles that isn`t limited to gun violence. It didn`t start with
gun violence and didn`t end with gun violence. But let`s take a look.
LEE: So this a beautiful block.
NATALIE MOORE, WBEZ REPORTER: Yes. This is where I grew up.
LEE: You know what, I don`t think people outside of Chicago get to see
this Chicago. I think for so many people, it`s a war zone.
LEE: It`s a shack, right?
MOORE: You know, there – there`s an invisibility of the black middle
class and black working class, I think, in this country. And this is not
an anomaly. This is not a special neighborhood. There are so many
neighborhoods that were once white in Chicago that turned over black, and
they maintained a middle class identity.
LEE: Why do you think that gets lost?
MOORE: It`s not news.
LEE: It`s not sexy, no?
MOORE: It`s not sexy.
Hi, how are you?
Hi. Good to see you on (INAUDIBLE) today.
And the issues that we are dealing with in this city are not new. This –
something just didn`t magically happen in 2016. There`s always been this
LEE: When you think about the millions of people who fled the South,
fleeing Jim Crow segregation to arrive in places like Chicago, to help
shape it, not just the culture of this city, but the culture of America.
On the other side of that coin, though, especially as of late, it`s become
dominated by this idea of violence.
How do you reckon with the two visions of Chicago?
MOORE: We have to remember that that darker legacy didn`t just start with
conversations about the so-called black-on-black violence. When black
people got off those trains and arrived in Chicago a century ago, they were
greeted by a host of policies and laws that kept them contained to black
People call it Jim Crow of the North. You know, you couldn`t live in white
areas. It was illegal to buy a home from somebody white that had a
restrictive covenant. Black people were met with racial violence when they
did integrate neighborhoods. There was red-lining. Banks didn`t want to
give you a loan if you were in a black neighborhood.
And all these things are at the heart of residential segregation –
disinvestment, lack of resources is been something that black people have
been contending with for a very long time.
LEE: Just last month in this block alone, seven people shot. At a vigil
memorializing another gun violence victim, the mother shot, teenagers are
shot. How did we get to this moment?
MOORE: Well, I think if we look around, like this block was a really
stable block and this area was stable, but look how many boarded up homes
are on this block. Look how many boarded up businesses are here.
And so, all of that is really connected. You know, there`s expression of
America gets a cold, black America gets the flu. So the economic downturn
is still being felt here. The housing crisis, you know, is still being
felt here. These communities haven`t climbed out of it the way we think
the rest of the country has.
LEE: How do we begin to even address all of that, or even climb out of it?
MOORE: Well, people say, “Oh, you know, these communities have to hook
themselves up.” I guarantee that there are block clubs all around here.
And so, people are doing individual things, but these are larger structural
You know, how do you recruit businesses? How do you do neighborhood
improvement plans? And that`s when city officials, state, federal, all
these different layers have to come in and help.
LEE: Chris, so often, the headlines are dominated by the gun violence.
But one thing that Natalie talked about and so many people – some in this
room I`ve talked to before say, the violence is spread beyond the gun.
Poverty is violence, right?
LEE: Hunger is real violence.
LEE: The trauma that folks are seeing inside the home, but also the
repeated exposure to violence in the streets, people are wound up and
traumatized and all of that is violent, but we don`t address that kind of
HAYES: You know, one of the things that struck me about that, I`d like to
see a show of hands. One of the narratives that happened in this election,
interestingly enough, in those places in America that voted overwhelmingly
for the president, was about the same story that Natalie was telling us,
the economic recovery has not actually recovered, that the devastation hit
and it rippled, and it rippled, and it rippled, and you could look at top
line economic numbers and you could say, “We`re back to full employment.”
Do people feel like in their neighborhoods, things are back?
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: No.
HAYES: Do they feel like it has recovered?
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: No.
HAYES: Yes. Here, let me – let me – let me talk to you. Let me talk to
you, Camiella. Camiella, stand up for me. Tell me your name.
CAMIELLA WILLIAMS, GUN VIOLENCE ACTIVIST: Camiella Williams.
HAYES: You`re someone who has, I know, lost people that you loved and are
close to you to violence.
WILLIAMS: 29 loved ones as of today.
HAYES: What do you feel about where the city is right now? Do you feel
like it`s getting worse? Do you feel like it`s not in the right direction?
WILLIAMS: It`s not in the right direction. Our leadership is failing us.
We can`t get the resources that we need.
WILLIAMS: We – then again, we organizing, like Ameena said, we doing our
part, but we just don`t have the support of our leadership behind.
HAYES: What would that mean, though? What does the support mean?
WILLIAMS: Resources. Giving organizations that`s doing stuff money, to
continue to do what they need to do.
HAYES: How do you – how do you understand why the violence is happening?
WILLIAMS: It`s a lot of – there`s a lot of stuff. But to me, you know,
just – people just being hopeless right now. Like, they – no other
opportunities for them. No jobs, no mental health. I know I have PTSD.
It`s just off the – off the charts. And there`s just no help for us in
HAYES: Have you ever gotten treatment for that?
WILLIAMS: No. University of Chicago did a study about PTSD, but they
didn`t come into our community to help us.
HAYES: Do people in this room feel like they have PTSD, they personally
feel trauma? Raise a hand if you feel like you`ve got trauma.
Let me talk to you, Rachel. Thank you. You`re wearing – you`re wearing
the button of someone on your – on your …
RACHEL: Yes. He was two – of two people I`ve lost within a week span.
Like, I grew up in Grove Heights, a little neighborhood, south side of
Chicago, (INAUDIBLE) or you went to Chicago, stay across the train tracks.
So, when we talk about divestment in the community, you have to look at two
things, divestment in jobs, divestment in education, and wonder why the
violence is so high.
So if you`re sitting up here looking at a neighborhood and saying like why
is the crime rate high, why is this happening? But then you`re seeing no
jobs, no education, but barely holding on, and then you see no – when we
talk about it, we talk about food just as well. All of those are major
components that come into the violence that happens here.
HAYES: Do you guys – thank you, Rachel, thank you.
Lori, how does that sound to you?
LIGHTFOOT: When people are hopeless, when they have unemployment that`s
off the charts, 50 percent in some of our neighborhoods, where people have
never had a job, have no prospects of getting a job, you lose your sense of
self and hope and dignity.
HAYES: Hey – OK. We`re going to take – we`re going to take a break. I
want to talk about policing more specifically. It`s obviously important
here, it`s important across the country. And I know that people have
extremely strong views about what`s happening in Chicago and policing. So,
we`re going to take a quick break. When we come back, more on that. Don`t
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Listen, I`m not just a superintendent, I`m a black person that
lives in Chicago. I raise kids here, I grew up here, and I have relatives
HAYES: So we`re back here in Chicago talking about some of the context for
what`s been going on in the city. Lori, you were taking about the state
budget cuts which were quite severe.
HAYES: There`s a lot of – the city has been both, sort of, fighting for
resources and also has made its own cuts and you want to say something
JEDIDIAH BROWN, FOUNDER, YOUNG LEADERS ALLIANCE: I just wanted to say that
another thing that`s happened is that our leadership has left young people
in a place of having to survive and fight for ourselves and those most
pressing issues in our neighborhood we show – whether it`s a person being
shot, racial tensions, we have to fight for ourselves and there have been
times where I`ve been willing to allow the city who shows up to engage but
the city has never been proactive in providing resources and chances for
individuals who are on the ground fighting to improve the quality of life
HAYES: What does it mean to you to say you feel like you`re on your own.
When you`re talking about something like violence, for instance, how does
that actually – like – operational-wise, what`s that on the ground in a
lib reality where you feel like, we have to take care of this or no one
BROWN: In every facet of our life here the mayor`s office is completely
shut out to individuals who are critical of what his administration has and
has not done. And anybody who is not going to be a yes-man does not get the
buddy (ph) hand out jobs. Now, this is what happens when you close down
city schools as the mayor you become deputy mayor. What happens is people
who are not gonna do the mayor`s bidding, they become blocked from
accessing – and we`re not trying to engage him, we`re trying to engage the
office who has the resources to improve the quality of life but they are
completely unacceptable to us and they`ve mastered their talking points to
cover up and misrepresent everything that they`ve done.
HAYES: I want to talk for a second in a focused way about policing and the
police. And I want to start with something that the mayor said about a
theory that he had about why policing has gotten more difficult. Can we
play that quote from the mayor?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAHM EMMANUEL, MAYOR OF CHICAGO: I met with officers from the 10th
District. And one officer said explicitly, when I`m driving by I have to
think about whethr I want to be on the news and what it means to my career.
What happened post Baltimore, what happened post Ferguson is having an
impact, and I gave the example of the 10th District.
Which is why all the other police offcers or police chiefs and mayors
applauded at the moment. And I still believe that the recent events over
the last year or 18 months have had an impact, and officers would tell you
HAYES: First of all, start with you, Superintendent. Do you think that`s
JOHNSON: Well, what I think we have is a situation where officers see
what`s going on, you know, not just in Chicago, but nationally. And I`ll
be the first to tell you, CPD has done some things inappropriately and
incorrectly. You know, and our challenge is to make sure that that doesn`t
You know, the majority of officers–
HAYES: I want to ask a specific question.
Do you feel it is the case that the increased scrutiny on police behavior
through cell phones, through public publicity around Laquan McDonald
particularly, do you think it has affected police behavior in such a way
that they feel they can`t do their jobs?
JOHNSON: No. And I`ll give you a statistic to support that.
So in 2015, we had the Laquan McDonald, released the video. We had a
change in leadership in the police department and we had a change of state
So in 2016, we got off to a really rocky start. But what I can tell you is
this. The one thing that police officers do everyday is arrest bad guys
with guns. That`s the most dangerous thing we could do.
If you look at the statistics from 2015, we did – we did a 9 percent over
what we did in 2015. This year, we almost doubled in arresting bad guys
with guns. So that tells me that our overall stops of citizens has
plummeted. And it should because we`re doing it the right way.
We should be focused on arresting the right people for the right reasons at
the right time.
HAYES: All right, so stop – stop–
HAYES: –go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
HAYES: Lori, do you agree with that?
Stops in the city have plummeted, according to statistics?
HAYES: Do people feel like they have lived that?
Do you feel like yourself that the stops have–
LIGHTFOOT: They`re down 80 percent. Investigatory stops are down 80
percent. Arrests are down. But the statistic that the superintendent has
quoted, I think, is right, which is the officers still out there taking
great risks to take guns off the streets.
I think this whole issue of – and I think it`s been called the Ferguson
LIGHTFOOT: –really does officers a disservice. But more to the point, it
does the people a disservice. We need the police to be proactive, to be
respectful and engaged with the community. And we need them to do their
job in a constitutional way.
This – they are absolutely under a level of scrutiny that probably have
never been seen before in policing. And that`s not going to go away.
What you hear in this conversation tonight is people who – whose interest
has been raised, who`s attention has been raised and who have a level of
expectations about the quality of policing that they should be getting in
every single neighborhood in the city. That`s not going to go away.
The challenge for policing and for the superintendent is to articulate a
path forward for individual officers so they`re not afraid to do their
jobs, because they`re afraid to be captured on video. That`s not going to
change. They`ve got to figure out the path forward and leadership, I
think, will point them in the right direction.
HAYES: I want to ask people in this room a question about how they feel
about the police, how much they feel they can trust the police, right after
we take this quick break.
Don`t go anywhere.
We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody has really said it, but his name is Rahm
Emmanuel. And this mayor that we have in the city of Chicago does not care
about black people. And I`m going to put that on the record.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORETTA LYNCH, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: The
Department of Justice has concluded that there is reasonable cause to
believe that the Chicago Police Department engages in a pattern or a
practice of use of excessive force in violation of the Fourth Amendment to
These are serious problems. And they bear serious consequences for all
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: As former Attorney General Loretta Lynch announcing the consent
decree that had been entered into by the city of Chicago`s police
department and the Department of Justice after a patterns and practices
look into the Department.
Now, the Chicago Police Department has had a long history of violations of
civil rights. There was a torture center being run out of the South Side
of Chicago for years by infamous Detective Jon Burge.
There has been report after report about theft, about abuses of power.
This is just one little part of the the Department of Justice report.
CPD will take a young person to a rival gang neighborhood and either leave
the person there or display the youth to rival members, immediately putting
the life of that young person in jeopardy by suggesting he has provided
information to the police.
This, of course, comes on top of the shooting of Laquan McDonald and the
possible pending charges for five of those officers who filed false police
reports that later were revealed to be false by the video.
And I want to talk a bit about how this department can police this city in
the wake of that history that the superintendent has been talking about.
GREEN, how do you feel about whether or not this department in this moment
can be trusted?
GREEN GREEN, ACTIVIST: So first of all, if you want to talk about the
trust with the police and black people, there`s never been trust, all
So that`s number one.
Number two is that if you look at the numbers, 75 percent of murders go
unsolved. So obviously they`re not doing their job–
GREEN: And they haven`t been doing their job in years.
GREEN: But hopefully, Superintendent Eddie Johnson can do something about
the police culture.
But if we`re talking about violence, police isn`t the answer. You could
put 100,000 police officers on the street. That will not reduce violence
in the city of Chicago–
GREEN: –because police are only there to react. They`re only there to
react. You have the put money into prevention. And right now, a lot –
nobody has really said it, but his name is Rahm Emanuel. And this mayor
that we have in the city of Chicago does not care about black people.
And I`m going to put that on the record.
GREEN: When you can`t invest $100 million into the Pall Basketball Arena
when they can practice at the United Center for free and $16.4 million into
Uptown to build upscale apartments, when you can build these new bus stops
we`ve got downtown but walk in our neighborhood and not a million is
When you – we`re walking past boarded up schools, boarded up houses, they
knock it down with red Xs with no plan to redevelop, mental health
facilities shut down, the job – the unemployment rate is the highest in
Chicago than it is around the country, When you want to talk about
violence, you got to talk about the economics. Not police.
HAYES: So there`s two things I want responses on. There are two things
I`d like to hear responses on. I want to talk about something that Jamal
said that I think is a really important thing for folks to recognize, which
is – which is the clearance rates. Right. There`s a sense in which
people experience policing in a day to day – stop and frisk, as it`s
called in New York. Being pulled over, people feel like they`re being
harassed. And then there`s the most serious thing that a – most serious
crime that a person can commit, which is taking another person`s life,
right. This city`s clearance rate for homicides is–
JOHNSON: Somewhere now about 30 – little over 30 percent.
HAYES: 30 percent, OK. What – and folks in this room know that number
because they feel like it`s an indictment of the department. What do you
say to people that say that is an indictment of the department?
JOHNSON: Well you know what, the clearance rate is just not a CPD
clearance rate. It`s the Chicago clearance rate. Because the simple fact
is that Jamal is right about a lot of what he said needs to be investing in
(ph). He`s correct about that. But the simple fact is, until we listen –
I`m not just a superintendent. I`m a black person that lives in Chicago.
I raised my kids here. I grew up here. And I have relatives here. But
the simple fact is this. CPD, we have to do a better job of facilitating
that relationship and building that trust back. And to that end, I`ve been
getting out there since I became superintendent to do that. Because
without the trust in the community, CPD is only as good as the faith that
the community has in it.
HAYES: Let me ask a question to this room. I want to – show of hands.
If you see something that`s happening in your neighborhood, criminal act –
maybe a theft, maybe something more, violence of some sort – who here in
this room feels comfortable picking up 911 and dialing the cops?
HAYES: Whoa, whoa. And how many people – how many other people (ph)
don`t feel comfortable?
Can I talk to you for a second? Tell me your name.
DMITRI ROBERTS, FRM. CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER: Dmitri Roberts (ph).
HAYES: And you were a Chicago police officer for a while?
ROBERTS: I was, many years.
HAYES: Now, I thought what Jamal said was interesting. One of the things
that ends up happening when these conversations happen is, you watch the
resources flow towards police departments, right. And I think, frankly,
police departments that I`ve covered around the country are very good at
getting those resources. The argument police departments make is, crime is
low, we`ve been beating crime, give us resources that we can keep beating
crime. Crime is up, we`re losing crime, give us resources so we can beat
crime. Are you confident that policing – that this is a policing problem
ROBERTS: Well, before I answer that question, Chris, I have to acknowledge
why there`s so much tension in this room. It`s because people are hurting.
People – by a show of hands, how many in this room have either been a
victim of violence or know somebody that`s been a victim of violence in the
city of Chicago? I know I have. So now we have to acknowledge that people
are hurting in these communities.
And then, on behalf of the police, as somebody who wore a badge, but I also
served my country in the military. But before that, I was a young black
man who grew up not too far from here, and I saw the blood of my fellow
peers spilled on 47th street. I saw the blood of my peers spilled on the
streets of Iraq. And I saw the blood of my fellow police officers spilled
in Inglewood. So can we all agree that at the end of the day, can we unify
behind the fact that we all bleed the same color? At the end of the day?
Can we all unify just behind that one point?
ROBERTS: And regardless of what side of politics we come from, regardless
of what hashtag we promote, regardless of what we come through, the better
days are ahead of us. And as long as we in this room stand together and
unify, Chris, that`s when we`re going to see some solutions. Now–
HAYES: What`s that mean? What does that mean?
ROBERTS: To your point, the folks in this room, regardless of whether your
program has been resourced or not, people are going out every day, they`re
continuing to put their lives on the line, and they`re continuing to fight
for the sanctity and the dignity of the people and the violence to be
reduced in the city of Chicago. So what can we do? We have to unify
behind something. And if we can agree that we all want to see one Chicago
unified, we can all leave here today feeling like when we go out tomorrow,
we`re going to make Chicago better as a result of us being here today.
HAYES: OK. Let me ask this question. Can – can unity – can people feel
like there can be unity or trust in – unless there is accountability? Do
people feel like the Chicago Police Department is an accountable
ROBERTS: So here`s the deal. Superintendent Eddie Johnson has come in,
he`s diversified the command staff. But before all of this takes place,
there needs to be an apology that happens to every single person in this
room. And as somebody who swore oath both to my country and to my
community, I can stand here with you today and I can apologize to you, each
one of you, on national TV, and say I`m sorry that we have not fulfilled
the oath that we swore to you. We have not protected our communities in
the way that we should.
And further, to President Trump – come here to Chicago. See what all of
these folks in this room, black, white, Democrat, Republican, city
officials, civic leaders, are doing in this city, and they need the
resources of the federal government to ensure that there`s no more blood,
not a police officer, not a community member, spilled another day in this
city from this day moving forward.
HAYES: So I want to talk about – I want to talk about what solutions here
would look like if the sky was the limit, if there was a real commitment on
the part of the national polity to help places like Chicago, help
themselves, right after this break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My challenge to Trump, that Trump bring your rump into
the city of Chicago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Alright, we`re back here to talk a bit about solutions and I have
with me Congressman Bobby Rush who is a legendary figure in many respects.
He`s the only person to ever beat Barack Obama in an election. That`s a
good piece of trivia.
HAYES: And represents Southside. If you thought about this idea, if you
took the idea to send in the feds in the broadest and most constructive
sense, if you read that as a commitment by national leadership to do
whatever it can to reduce trauma in the city of Chicago, increase the, sort
of, flourishing and thriving, what would that look like?
REP. BOBBY RUSH (D), ILLINOIS: Well, first of all Chris, let me say this. I
am a fan. I live here, I worship here, I love here and what I`m witnessing
today is – this is the way we do it in Chicago. There are a lot of strong
opinions but most of them, the people here, they are empowered through
their love of this city and their love of their community and they are just
passionate about it. I don`t know what Trump means when he say bring in the
feds. First of all, my challenge to Trump is, Trump, bring your rump into
the city of Chicago.
RUSH: Go to these communities and deal with these people who are on the
front lines day by day, see what they have to say about their community and
their aspirations for their communities. I think that we need to take a
moment to look beyond the violence and see what is occurring beyond the
violence. If we look beyond the violence, we will not only see the schools
that were closed, we will see a Chicago State that is being threatened to
close, but we are seeing the fact that Chicago, at one time, had nine black
owned banks and now were down to one. That`s a federal policy.
I`m saying that most of our problems that I`ve heard here today, and I`ve
thought about over the years, be it housing, be it education, be it mass
incarceration, all of these are federal policies and we have not yet, at
this moment, including eight years of Obama, had someone in the White House
who really cared about this city and about these problems here in the City
HAYES: Thank you, Congressman.
HAYES: Congresswoman, could I talk to you? Because – I just want you to
respond to what your colleague just said. He said, including the eight
years of Barack Obama we have not had a president that actually cares about
REP. ROBIN KELLY (D), ILLINOIS: Well, I`m not gonna say I altogether agree
with what he`s saying. I look at it as – like – nothing stops the bullet
like an opportunity. And we need to make sure we`re giving our young people
and our citizens opportunities.
Yes, it`s government. When I think of bringing in the feds we need to bring
in resources to help businesses, to help – there`s a lot of people in this
room that are doing good things like Diane Latiker, like Kelly Fair (Ph) or
Carla Stubbles (ph). We need to scale up those programs. This young man
here, with his program, if we could bring in money to scale up those
programs so they could help more people but also it`s not just government.
Let`s look at all the businesses that we support. Do they have businesses
in our community?
When they come to D.C. and see me and want my help, I say, “do you have
businesses South?” Not just Southside of Chicago, I represent the South
Suburbs, too, and there`s some of the same retail red-lining going on
there. So, we don`t have jobs and we don`t have the mentoring.
HAYES: Let me ask you this – They`re talking about an infrastructure bill
in Washington D.C., you know, and the idea behind a Washington D.C.
infrastructure bill would be to, essentially, create construction jobs
throughout the country. Right?
HAYES: Do you feel like – would you have any faith that this would come to
Chicago, that that money would come to Chicago?
HAYES: The congresswoman – the congresswoman talked about – the
congresswoman just talked about the work that you do. Tell me your name.
JAHMAL COLE: Jahmal Cole.
HAYES: And what kind of work do you do?
COLE: A lot of Chicago teenagers have never been downtown, they`ve never
seen a lake. They order food through three-inch bulletproof glass windows,
helicopters are landing on their houses at night. Their whole worldview is
shaped by the infrastructure of their neighborhood. So, what I do is I take
teenagers from these underresourced communities on educational field trips
and we expose them to different cultures, different professions, and
So, if you asked a kid what do they want to be, they say they want to be a
rapper or a basketball player.
But if I take them to Gatorade, and they talk about consumer engagement,
the kids never knew that job existed prior to that educational field trip.
So, that`s what we do.
COLE: And we do it – we do it basically – we do it by selling hoodies
and t-shirts online. So that`s kind of what we do.
HAYES: Thank you, thank you very much.
HAYES: Commissioner – Commissioner Boykin, tell – tell me your name.
BOYKIN: Richard Boykin, Cook County Commissioner.
HAYES: You got some – you got some fans here. You know, so we`ve been
talking about like there`s this legacy of isolation, right?
So – so, there was – there`s structural policies put in place, there was
redlining, there was restricted covenants. There were ways in which capital
was starved from places and that has been layered upon itself for decades.
It has produced sort of pockets of concentrated poverty that happen in the
city of Chicago. What would it look like if the society, and I mean
America, made a decision that that was simply an unacceptable thing to
BOYKIN: Look, I think that we have to make that decision. Our babies are
dying, our communities are dying.
The reality of it is – is that we must focus on parenting. If the federal
government made a commitment to invest in parenting, look – work with the
faith-based community, work with the organizations that do professional
parenting, we could turn this thing around.
A lot of it begins – everything begins at home. And so these – and – and
what we have here is really black people killing black people in many
I mean, 80 percent of the people killed in the month of January were
African Americans, so 46 – 56 people killed, 46 African American, of the
other 10, eight Latino, two whites.
And so, we got a serious crisis in the city of Chicago; it is a virtual
state of emergency. We need federal assistance; we need additional FBI
agents, DEA agents, ATF…
BOYKIN: Policing, though, we can`t police our way out of poverty. I agree
with that, but we need them to help solve this clearance rate.
We need – we need to – we got recycled killers.
Look, one of the things that – one of the things – one of the things that
I did recently is I introduced the Neighborhood Revitalization Act, that
would provide free homes for police officers, teachers, fire fighters, and
paramedics, to live in these communities that are in danger, for five
years, if they will live and work in those communities.
It does several things. One, we got 80,000 vacant lots and abandoned
buildings in the city of Chicago, things that are boarded up. We gotta put
those back on the tax roles; we gotta put professionals back in the
We got to revitalize and rebuild these communities. And what else it does,
is it requires developers to use 30 percent of at-risk youth, 16-24 in
those communities to actually do the rehab and the redevelopment.
HAYES: All right, Commissioner, thank you very much. I wanna – I wanna
just – at the beginning of this – at the beginning of this town hall, we
came out here – I`ve lived in Chicago for a while, learned to be a
reporter in this – in this great city.
And the first thing I said to these folks here – and if you`re watching at
home was, we were going to do this hour and everyone was going to walk away
frustrated because we didn`t get to 1/100th of what this very complex place
But, I hope for the people that have been – that are outside of Chicago,
who have watched this city be talked about rather than talked with, that
you learned a little more about what this city is about, what`re the
challenges it faces.
And it is not alone, it is something every major city in the country is
facing right and that – those challenges are going to intensify.
So, I want to thank you to the people of Chicago, to the folks came here,
Deputy Mayor, Superindendent, Ameena Matthews, and Lori Lightfoot, thank
you very much.
Thank you to everyone who participated and to the great city of Chicago and
the Southside Cultural Center. Thank you for having us.
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