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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 9/22/2016

Guests: Peter Wherry, Vince Warren, Donte Stallworth, Jonathan Cohn, Yamiche Alcindor, Justin Bamberg

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: September 22, 2016 Guest: Peter Wherry, Vince Warren, Donte Stallworth, Jonathan Cohn, Yamiche Alcindor, Justin Bamberg

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This community deserves answers.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES (voice-over): State of emergency. A third night of unrest in North Carolina. Tonight, what police are now saying about the video of the death of Keith Scott and why they`re not showing the public. Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It just seems that there`s a lack of spirit between the white and the black.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES (voice-over): -- Donald Trump rolls out his unconstitutional plan to grab guns and stop crime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I would do stop-and-frisk. I think you have to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES (voice-over): As his running mate urges Americans to move on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, REPUBLICAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We ought to set aside this talk, this talk about institutional racism and institutional bias.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES (voice-over): And the shockwaves of Charlotte and Tulsa reach the NFL.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD SHERMAN, CORNERBACK, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS: I`m saying it straight up, this is wrong and we need to do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES (voice-over): When ALL IN starts right now.

HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. Tonight major developments in the two police shootings we`ve been following for the past week, Charlotte, North Carolina, is in a state of emergency at this hour as a third night of protest is underway. And then the shooting of an unarmed black man in Tulsa, Oklahoma. There, the police officer has been charged with first-degree manslaughter, and more on that in a moment. First, these are live pictures of downtown Charlotte last night during the second night of protests following the shooting death of Keith Scott. Another man was shot as police took positions in downtown Charlotte in riot gear. That man has, according to our affiliate, WCNC, recently died. We have not yet independently confirmed that. Police say he was shot by another civilian, but they are reviewing video to make sure that none of their officers were involved. During an arrest that continued after that shooting, further property damage occurred. Police fired tear gas, and additional civilians and police suffered injuries most classified as minor. Governor Pat McCrory declared a state of emergency about 11:00 pm and the National Guard was deployed. Questions about the police shooting death of Keith Scott which triggered the unrest, questions as to whether or not he was armed and if so whether he was pointing his firearm at police, coupled with the refusal of police to release video of the incident have fueled mounting calls for transparency. Today, Charlotte police chief Kerr Putney said he was honoring a request from the Scott family to show the video of the shooting to them, but would, consistent with police practice, not release it to the public during the course of the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERR PUTNEY, POLICE CHIEF, CHARLOTTE, N.C.: There`s a difference between disclosure, allowing someone to see it -- and that would be the party who feels they`ve been aggrieved, that`s what I`m going to do -- but release would be to the masses, and that`s what I`m not going to do. What I can tell you that I saw, and I was very clear when I talked about this before, is the video does not give me absolute definitive visual evidence that would confirm that a person is pointing a gun. I did not see that in the videos that I`ve reviewed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: WCNC has obtained a photo from a witness of what appears to be a gun. The affiliate verified the photo with a police source who says it is the gun found near Mr. Scott`s feet. Issues of transparency are front and center in this case, particularly since Governor McCrory signed highly controversial legislation in July restricting the release of police camera recordings. That law doesn`t go into effect until October 1st, meaning that restrictions on releasing police footage will soon be the new norm in the state of North Carolina.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You signed the bill that takes effect in October that`s going to limit even more body cam and dash cam video. In a situation like this, wouldn`t one frame go a long way to showing who`s right and who`s wrong?

PAT MCCRORY, GOVERNOR OF NORTH CAROLINA: Well, I strongly disagree with your interpretation of the state law, so I`ll let you read the state law. I`ve read the state law, and I stand by the chief`s comments that he made earlier today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: The family of Keith Scott, which has now seen that dash cam video, chose not to appear at a press conference today, but through their attorneys expressed frustration at the position in which they find themselves in, defending the actions of the victim.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police shot Mr. Scott. The police are the public servants, he`s a citizen. So this concept of transparency, you know, yes, we want transparency. Yes, we don`t create the facts, we live with the facts, OK. But you can`t take the burden that is placed on law enforcement as sworn officers and public servants and put that on a deceased person or their family who`s in mourning. It`s my understanding that his wife saw him get shot and killed, and that`s something that she will never, ever forget.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: The family of Mr. Scott has now released a statement through their lawyers after seeing the video which reads in part, "When told by police to exit his vehicle, Mr. Scott did so in a very calm, non-aggressive manner. While police did give him several commands, he did not aggressively approach them or raise his hands at members of law enforcement at any time. It is impossible to discern from the videos what, if anything, Mr. Scott is holding in his hands. When he was shot and killed, Mr. Scott`s hands were by his side and he was slowly walking backwards." They`re also calling for the videos to be released to the public. Officer Brentley Vinson, who fired the fatal shot in his encounter with Mr. Scott, has been placed on paid administrative leave while authorities investigate the shooting. State investigation`s also been requested by the local district attorney, activated under a state law when the victim`s family requests such an investigation. And Chief Putney indicated the possibility of a federal investigation. Justice Department and FBI are currently monitoring the situation. Now, we turn our attention to Tulsa in the shooting there. The death of Terence Crutcher last Friday, which you can see in that video. The police officer who fired those shots, that one shot, Betty Shelby, was today charged with first-degree manslaughter. A warrant has been issued for her arrest, arrangements are being made for her surrender according to the Tulsa county district attorney. Joining me now from Charlotte, Reverend Doctor Peter Wherry, senior pastor from Mayfield Memorial Missionary Baptist Church, belonging to NAACP and local clergy, is calling for the shooting video to be released. Reverend, first, tell me why you think it`s important this video be released?

PETER WHERRY, REVEREND DOCTOR, MAYFIELD MEMORIAL MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH: Good evening, Chris. I believe the video should be released because of the unique circumstances in which our city finds itself. That is, transparency is so greatly needed because I believe the zeitgeist demands that we pay attention to the context in which this particular killing took place, just hours after Terence Crutcher was killed. Then Mr. Scott is killed. But also in the context of a city in which Randall Kerrick is tried and was fired but was set free by a hung jury. And so in this context, also in a city that`s suffering through the things that Charlotte economically is suffering through -- that is, the middle class in the Port of Charlotte -- there is a real powder keg happening here and it has begun to explode. And I only say begun to explode because the lack of transparency is slowly building the tension in this city. So to the extent that the release of the videos will alleviate that tension, it`s a really good idea to do so.

HAYES: I want you to respond to an argument that I`ve seen others make that in fact that it would be the opposite, the release of the video would inflame tension. We`ve obviously seen two pretty rough nights in Charlotte, last night the devastating news of the death of that man who -- we have not yet confirmed that independently, but at the very least he was shot, he was on life support. What do you think happens next in that city? What do folks need to make sure that we don`t have violence like that that we saw last night?

WHERRY: Sure. Well, you know, the assumption that releasing the videos would create more violence presumes that one knows what`s in the videos. And if we know what`s in the videos is damning evidence, then perhaps that`s the fear. However, according to the chief, we don`t really know what`s in the videos. Moreover, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding, the chief said that there were several people, officers at the scene, with body cams on who did not have them turned on. So we really don`t know what releasing the videos will do. What we think needs to happen next are a few things. Number one, the videos need to be released. That goes without saying. Number two, we`re calling on the governor, we`re calling on the city council, we`re calling on the county commission, we`re calling on the mayor, we`re calling on the attorney general of North Carolina to declare where they stand with regard to releasing those videos. And thirdly, we believe that -- and we`ve spoken to our mayor about this -- there needs to be a taskforce on police violence in Charlotte that brings together business leaders, clergy, as well as political leadership on an ongoing basis. And fourthly, we believe that -- and we have asked for at various levels from federal on down -- we have asked for an automatic trigger of an independent investigation of every police involved killing of a citizen of color. Now we have an investigation going on, an independent one now, apparently, from the SBI, the State Bureau of Investigation. However, we believe that a Department of Justice Civil Rights Division --

HAYES: Right.

WHERRY: -- is really what is mandatory in a case like this when the tensions have been so high.

HAYES: Reverend, let me just get your response to one more thing. A Republican congressman who represents part of Charlotte, a man by the name of Robert Pittenger, offered this theory for why people have engaged in both protest and property destruction and some of the other things we`ve seen in the last few nights. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ROBERT PITTENGER (R), N.C.: The grievance in the mind is the anger. They hate white people because white people are successful and they`re not. I mean, yes, it is. It is a welfare state. We have spent trillions of dollars on welfare where we put people in bondage so that they can`t be all that they`re capable of being.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Do you believe the cause of the frustration and unrest is the resentment of white people because they are successful and the protesters are not?

WHERRY: Well, I know Mr. Pittenger and like him very much. However, I`m very disappointed at his analysis of the situation. I should tell you that having been black in the United States of America for a very long time, none of those things has any presence in reality. Primarily, people are angry and upset because there is the sense in our city right now that we are -- black citizens, African-American citizens -- are living in a police state --

HAYES: Hmm.

WHERRY: -- under an army of occupation. Not to mention the fact that if one looks at the Harvard study, what has happened in a city like Charlotte, 50 up out of 50 major cities in the country and upward mobility out of poverty, and if you look at the data, the middle class has been hollowed out, eviscerated, in this city. Such that there are the working poor that we clergy meet every day who are working two jobs and three jobs and cannot afford a place to live. And on top of that, now there are these signals that are being sent. And African-Americans are not monolithic. In other words, we are not stupid. We have the ability to analyze the signs of the times. Case in point, we finished meeting with the mayor and the city council about 2:00 this morning. And as we got back to our cars, we were accosted by about 50 officers arresting two people and told to go home.

HAYES: Hmm.

WHERRY: The pastor of the church was told, get in your car and go home. One of our white colleagues who was there was tapped on his shoulder who was standing right near the arrest and was told, excuse me, sir.

HAYES: All right, Reverend Doctor --

WHERRY: This is what contributes. Thank you.

HAYES: Reverend Doctor Peter Wherry, thank you very much for your time tonight. I really appreciate it.

WHERRY: Thank you.

HAYES: I want to look to the live look at the demonstrations tonight that are happening in uptown Charlotte. This is the third night, of course. You can see a very peaceful scene right now. It was peaceful last night and then there was gunshots ringing out, devastating news that a person who was in that crowd was shot. He was on life support earlier today. There are some reports that he has since died. We have not independently confirmed that. Obviously, the city extremely tense and on edge. We have confirmed, actually, I should say, that that individual who was shot last night during the unrest in Charlotte has died. Police have not named who the person fired the gun is. They say they`re reviewing to make sure none of their officers were involved, but they called it a civilian-on-civilian shooting. I want to bring in now my colleague MSNBC national reporter, Trymaine Lee. And Trymaine, can you tell me what it feels like on the ground right now?

TRYMAINE LEE, NATIONAL REPORTER, MSNBC: Chris, I`ll tell you what -- and we`ve been on the ground so many times before and we always talk about that kind of calm before the possible storm. Right now we`re here in downtown Charlotte, it`s relatively quiet, but for the whir of a helicopter circling above. Driving in from the airport outside of the NASCAR Hall of Fame, you could already see National Guard troops gathering with some Humvees a few minutes ago right behind me. I saw a big white bus full of what I assume to be National Guard men coming in. It`s calm at the moment. And I`ve been talking to some clergy who say that they`ve been working all day trying to -- working with the activists in terms of non-violent protests, trying to figure out a way to reach those young people, especially those that we saw last night that have been this effected. So often we see in various communities where the clergy doesn`t necessarily have a true connection to the community. And so when the mayor stands up and the police chief stands up and you have a line of older clergy members who are talking, you know, about support, they don`t really have that connection. Here, it may very well be different. I was talking to a minister who said that there are certainly silos of different groups and organizations, yet they do have a pipeline to the young people and they`re trying to get their voice. But as we`ve seen in Baltimore, we`ve seen in Ferguson, depending on what the police do, their mere presence can be somewhat provocative.

HAYES: Right.

LEE: I`ve talked to a number of people who said last night protesters had been peaceful, until they get downtown and see that (INAUDIBLE) of guardsmen with their riot gear, with their shields, and their batons, and that may have sparked some of the unrest. Honestly, some foolishness unfurrowed, clearly. But again, the concern is the authority, how provocative will they be and how will they handle the situation tonight if in fact we get a large number of protesters like we saw last night.

HAYES: All right. Trymaine Lee, we`ll stay and monitor the situation. You`ll be down there. I`m always so glad to have you as a reporting resource. Thank you, Trymaine, appreciate it. Coming up, just four days away from the first presidential debate, Hillary Clinton is taking time off the trail to prepare. Donald Trump says he`d rather not be fact checked. What to expect on Monday, ahead. But first why the self-proclaimed defender of the Second Amendment is suggesting a gun grab. Donald Trump`s stop-and-frisk proposal after this two-minute break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Crooked Hillary Clinton is the most anti-gun, anti-Second Amendment candidate ever to run for office. And as I said before, she wants to abolish the Second Amendment. She wants to take your guns away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: For someone who calls his opponent a gun grabber and paints himself as a defender of the Second Amendment, Donald Trump has a pretty odd proposal to reduce violence in U.S. cities: take people`s guns away. He`s been talking a lot lately about his vision of life in America`s cities, places where, according to him, quote, you walk down the street, you get shot. Yesterday, taping a FOX News town hall in Cleveland that`s set to air tonight, Trump was asked by an audience member what he would do about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s now a lot of violence in the black community. I want to know what would you do to help stop that violence, you know, black-on-black crime?

TRUMP: Right. Well, one of the things I`d do, Ricardo, is I would do stop-and-frisk. I think you have to. We did it in New York, it worked incredibly well, and you have to be proactive. I see what`s going on here, I see what`s going on in Chicago. I think stop-and-frisk --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: First off, Trump is wrong about stop-and-frisk in New York. Since stop-and-frisk was phased out after a federal judge declared it unconstitutional in 2013, crime in New York City has remained at historic lows. This despite predictions from people like Trump advisor Rudy Giuliani and others that it would spike. When faced with the media backlash over his comments, Trump falsely claimed this morning he`d only been asked about Chicago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I was really referring to Chicago with stop-and-frisk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

TRUMP: They asked me about Chicago, and I was talking about stop-and-frisk for Chicago. When you have 3,000 people shot and so many people dying -- I mean, it`s worse than some of the places we`re hearing about like Afghanistan, you know, the war-torn --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

TRUMP: -- nations. It`s more dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Just for a point of comparison, there were 249 significant terrorist attacks last year in Kabul, the Afghan capital, alone, according to the State Department. You`ll also note FOX`s banner during that segment, "Gotham City gone wild, crime rose after NYC abandoned stop-and- frisk." As I just mentioned, violent crime in New York has not gone up since stop-and-frisk ended. In fact, it has continued to decline, falling over 5 percent in just the last two years, according to the NYPD. Still, Donald Trump says stop-and-frisk is the right tactic for police and he knows just how it will work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If they see a person possibly with a gun or they think they have a gun, they will see the person and they`ll look and they`ll take the gun away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, mm-hmm.

TRUMP: They`ll stop, they`ll frisk, and they`ll take the gun away, and they won`t have anything to shoot with. You know, the local police, they know who has a gun who shouldn`t be having the gun. They understand that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Joining me now, Vince Warren, executive director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which filed the class action lawsuit in New York that resulted in stop-and-frisk being declared unconstitutional. I want to start with the Second Amendment aspect of this and then we`ll move along to the Fourth.

(LAUGHTER)

HAYES: You know, here we have a situation right now, you know, as we watch things unfold in Charlotte, North Carolina, which is an open carry state, there`s a question about a gun. Obviously, you can`t brandish even in an open carry state. But you have Donald Trump saying they know where the guns are, they should take the guns away. I mean, you start thinking a little -- what exactly is going on here with the reverence to the Second Amendment and then somehow it doesn`t seem to apply to certain populations?

VINCE WARREN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS: Yes. I`ve always been challenged by that question with respect to the Second Amendment where people are like, we should have our guns and no one can take them away, unless of course they`re black people that have guns and then everybody should take them away. And in fact there`s a conundrum there because I think, you know, when you think about gun control laws and how they were passed that they were initially passed to keep guns out of the hands of free black people.

HAYES: For that reason. Ronald Reagan in California did not like the Panthers with guns on the steps of the capitol.

WARREN: That`s exactly right. So there`s a conundrum that`s happening. I can`t really make sense of it. The whole Second Amendment NRA lobby doesn`t make sense to me to begin with, frankly.

HAYES: I mean, I think people really -- to hear stop-and-frisk called for, again, in the context of people who talk about being Constitutionalists, particularly in the center-right and the right of this country -- I mean, a federal judge in court after hours of testimony just flatly declared that the way that it was implemented in New York was facially unconstitutional.

WARREN: Yes. It was a nine and a half week trial that we did. It was an almost 200-page opinion. It is flatly unconstitutional as it was done by the New York City Police Department. And as you`ve pointed out, there are really two pieces of it, the Fourth Amendment -- and I`m going to sort of ratchet it up to the Fourteenth -- the Fourth Amendment is that means that police officers cannot stop and frisk people based upon their race alone. They can`t stop them because they look shady, they can`t stop them because they have a hunch. They need a reasonable articulable suspicion. So we had 5 million stops over a number of years in New York, and the evidence showed that for the vast majority of them there was no articulable suspicion (INAUDIBLE).

HAYES: Now here`s my question to you, were you crossing your fingers after stop-and-frisk ended on the crime statistics? Was there some part of you saying, oh my god, we`re going to be blamed for this if crime shoots up?

WARREN: Well, I think people were very nervous about that connection. I think at the Center for Constitutional Rights, we were not because we had done our research and we`d found that there was no credible report that showed any link between stop-and-frisk and the crime rate whatsoever, so -- and that actually bore out. So if stop-and-frisk declined, that would have no effect on the crime rate at all, which is the opposite of what Mayor Bloomberg was saying. What I was crossing my fingers about was that there wasn`t going to be a spike in crime unrelated to any kid of police program that people would blame on the decline of stop-and-frisk.

HAYES: What does it say to you about the moment we`re at politically that this is what the Republican nominee is saying, this is his solution to places like Chicago where we really have seen a bad spike in violence, particularly shootings and homicides?

WARREN: I think, you know, the way that I would answer that question is that the idea of stop-and-frisk is something that people think is a good idea, even though the evidence demonstrates that it doesn`t work. They think it`s a good idea, even though it`s racially discriminatory. They feel like it solves a range of sort of problems that they see that are visible. What`s really happening -- and I think this is our big challenge in these days is to match the facts and the statistics to what are good policies. And I think that we can see some very good policies around policing that don`t involve blanket stopping and frisking of people just because they`re African-American walking down the street.

HAYES: All right. Vince Warren, thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

WARREN: Thanks, Chris.

HAYES: Still ahead, Mike Pence suggests the best way to heal the country in the wake of unrest following police involved shootings is to stop talking about racism. I`ll play you exactly what he said just after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: In Colorado today, Donald Trump`s running mate Mike Pence weighed in on recent police shootings of black Americans, arguing that while everyone deserves a fair and thorough investigation, application of the law, Americans spend too much time in the wake of such killings discussing racism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: We ought to set aside this talk about institutional racism and institutional bias. And when tragedies happen -- which I consider any loss of life to be a tragedy -- again, to move away from the rhetoric of division and to embrace the rhetoric of unity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Some of Trump`s allies have gone so far as to suggest that were it not for Barack Obama, America would not have a racism problem at all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHY MILLER, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN CHAIR: I don`t think there was any racism until Obama got elected. We never had problems like this. You know, I`m in the real estate industry. There`s none. Now, you know, with the people with the guns and shooting up neighborhoods and not being responsible citizens, that`s a big change. And I think that`s the philosophy that Obama has perpetuated on America. And if you`re black and you haven`t been successful in the last 50 years, it`s your own fault.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Today in the wake of that interview, Kathy Miller apologized and resigned as Trump`s campaign chair in Mahoning County, Ohio, though she maintained in the interview with NBC News after her resignation her comments were not racist. America is in the midst of an intense ongoing national conversation about race, racism, racial discrimination, policing. One that has been driven not just by protestors on the street, but by athletes who have harnessed the NFL spotlight to force the conversation into tens of millions of Americans` living rooms. Richard Sherman`s powerful statement in support of Colin Kaepernick, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: When Seattle Seahawks Cornerback Richard Sherman took the podium yesterday, reporters expected him to talk about his team`s game this weekend against the San Francisco 49ers but after briefly addressing the game, Sherman declined to take questions, instead delivering a statement before leaving the podium.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD SHERMAN, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS: More videos have come out of guys getting killed, and I think people are still missing the point. You know, the reason these guys are kneeling, the reason we`re locking arms is to bring people together, to make people aware that this is not right. You know, it`s not right for people to get killed in the street.

I do a lot of community service. I go out there and try to help kids and try to encourage them to be better and to aspire to more. And when you tell a kid, you know, when you`re dealing with police, put your hands up and comply with everything and there`s still a chance of them getting shot, and no repercussions for anyone, that`s an unfortunate time to be living. You know, it`s an unfortunate place to be in. It`s not a lot you can tell a kid. There`s not a lot -- you can try to inspire, say to inspire a person when you say, hey, we need black fathers to be in the community to stay there for your kids, but they`re getting killed in the street for nothing, for putting their hands on their cars.

And I think that`s the unfortunate part, that`s the unfortunate place that we`re living in and something needs to be done.

And so when a guy takes a knee, you can ignore it, you can say he`s not being patriotic, he`s not honoring the flag. I`m doing none of those things, I`m saying it straight up, this is wrong, and we need to do something. So, thank you, guys. Have a blessed day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Amazingly, more than two weeks into this football season, the movement Sherman referenced, kicked off by NFL quarterback`s Colin Kaepernick`s silent protest during the national anthem is only growing.

Taken up now just by Sherman and other NFL, players but by players at the college, high school, even Pop Warner level, as well as athletes in other sports including U.S. soccer player Meagan Rapinoe and the WNBA`s Indiana Fever.

The movement is sustained because the incidents that precipitated it keep happening. Two black men killed by police in just the past week.

Kaepernick who says he`s been getting death threats is on the cover of the new TIME magazine and has become a national lightning rod. One poll finding he has become the most disliked player in the NFL, a league in which players accused of rape and other crimes are superstars.

Another poll finding 44 percent of fans claiming they would actually stop watching the NFL if the protests continue.

The protests have forced NFL commentators who normally grapple with issues no more profound than the effectiveness of the nickel defense, to weigh in on profound issues of racial justice and that has resulted, as you might expect, in some very hot takes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No matter how passionate you are, no matter how much of a burden you have for a social issue, you don`t let it get in the way of the team. And the big thing that hit me through all this was this is a backup quarterback whose job is to be quiet and sit in the shadows and get the starter ready to play week one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: 49ers` linebacker Eli Harold said those comments prompted him to raise a fist during the national anthem in solidarity with his teammate, Kaepernick.

Joining me now, former NFL wide receiver Donte Stallworth.

Donte, first I just want to get your reaction. Are you surprised by what a kind of powder keg this has been in these first few weeks of this season?

DONTE STALLWORTH, FRM. NFL WIDE RECEIVER: No, I`m not really. And it`s becoming more of a thing where as you noted earlier that a lot of sports, not just football, professional NFL players, but sports across the spectrum of this country, are actually acknowledging not necessarily the method of what Colin Kaepernick is talking about, but the issues that he raised and that to me has never been at the forefront of this whole spectacle of what he`s tried to accomplish and tried to raise, you know, raise awareness for for people as he said, himself, who don`t have a voice.

HAYES: If you were in a locker room right now, if you were still in the league and playing, how would you be thinking about what you would do? Because it strikes me now every player has got this choice they`ve now been presented with, where, you know, in every game, when they`re preparing to do this very difficult, violent thing, which is play professional football, they got to make this choice about what am I going to do?

STALLWORTH: Yeah, it`s interesting. It`s easy for me to say what I would do either way, one way or another. I never looked at what these guys were doing, and a couple of these guys I actually know personally, but I never looked at it what they were doing was, you know, holding contempt for our country or having some type of contempt for our men and women in uniform. To me, that has just been a distraction from what the actual issues are, but as you see, you know, day in and day out, just these last couple days has shown it down in Charlotte and also in Tulsa where these issues are happening over and over.

So the conversation has been, I would say, probably Ferguson was one of the bigger issues that really made guys look at themselves and look at each other and say, hey, like what`s going on? What can we do about this? And to me, another big thing that people aren`t really talking about much is that Colin Kaepernick decided to donate $1 million, his first $1 million of his contract to organizations in the Bay Area. The 49ers have matched that for $1 million. And he`s also, you know, even though he`s the most disliked player in the NFL, his jersey sales were up to number one, and he`s also committed to donating those funds as well.

Same thing with Brandon Marshall. He`s committed to donating over $300 for every tackle. And the last two seasons, he`s had 100 tackles.

So, these guys are not only talking the talk but they`re walking the walk by putting their money where their mouths are.

HAYES: Do you think -- how do you see fans responding to this? I mean, what struck me that`s so fascinating about the situation, this is America`s pastime at this point. It`s surpassed all other sports. It`s a multibillion dollar business. It`s got the biggest ratings -- you kw, if you go through a year, like the top rated shows are all primetime football games.

You know, people -- you know, there are tens of millions of people across the political spectrum who are now confronted with this conversation.

STALLWORTH: Yeah. And that`s the biggest thing that Colin Kaepernick wanted to do is he wanted to raise awareness for these issues. And unfortunately, we are reminded, again, you know, with the happenings in Charlotte, we are reminded that this is not an issue that`s going to go away, unfortunately, until there is some awareness on it. The Justice Department has had all these investigations from cities from Baltimore to Cleveland to Ferguson to Albuquerque.

So, you know, when you hear the vice president or hopefully the candidate that`s running for vice president with Donald Trump say that we shouldn`t be talking about, you know, these issues of racism, that just doesn`t make any sense to me. And that`s another thing that Colin Kaepernick talked about, was he described both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump as two of the reasons, two more reasons why he`s looking at a lot of these issues around the country as the way they are and obviously both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton both having issues, you know, with her emails and the other things, and Donald Trump is just a complete mess, so we don`t have enough time to talk about him.

HAYES: That`s true. We only have an hour every night.

Donte Stallworth, thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

STALLWORTH: Thanks, Chris.

HAYES: Coming up, we`ll check in on what`s happening on the ground in Charlotte tonight. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: Police in Charlotte have just issued an unawful assembly order on the third night of protests following the shooting death of Keith Scott.

Joining me now from Charlotte is NBC`s Tammy Leitner. Tammy, what`s going on right now?

Can you hear me, Tammy? Tammy...

TAMMY LEITNER, NBC NEWS: Hey, Chris. There`s about 200 protesters out here.

Sorry, we`re having a hard time hearing. They`ve been on the move. We`re about a block and a half from the Omni Hotel where everything happened last night. There are at least 75 police officers if riot gear out here.

And earlier than last night, they`ve started telling the crowd to disperse from unlawful assembly. You can see some people over here still. This is hours earlier than last night.

And what happened last night, as soon as they told the crowd to disperse for unlawful assembly, that was when they started sending off tear gas and flash bomb grenades. So we`re hoping that that doesn`t happen tonight -- Chris?

HAYES: all right. Tammy Leitner there in Charlotte.

Like she said, this - they are dispersing the crowd earlier than they did last night. It was last night after the crowd dispersed when the tear gas that those shots were fired which killed one of the people that was in the group. We still don`t have the full details of what went down there. You can see there`s about 200 folks assembled again tonight.

Trymaine Lee talking earlier about how he had spoken with members of the clergy who were going to be out tonight. I`ve been in a number of these situation and often what ends up happening is a sort of long and protracted negotiation between numerous sides until the crowd fully disperses, but you can tell that there are some folks who don`t look like they`re quite ready to disperse.

Joining me now from Charlotte, Yamiche Alcindor, national reporter for The New York Times. Yamiche, what are you seeing down there?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR, THE NEW YORK TIMES: From what I`m seeing, I`m just walking over here, there were hundreds of people in the street. The people as far as I can tell have not -- it`s not turned violent. It`s not what`s happening last night. And from what I can tell, people are really in some ways kind of hoping that this night goes a little more peacefully than last night.

As you know, last night was kind of -- it became sporadic and it became really scary. The idea of that person being shot. So I think people are really in some ways -- they`re obviously still passionate. The family of Keith Scott today said that they want people to be out expressing their opinions. They want people to be out talking about the injustices, but they also did ask for people to be peaceful and for them not to break up their own city.

So, I think that`s kind of what I`m seeing.

HAYES: Yeah, last night the news -- the news of the shooting last night was really awful, and I wonder if folks feel kind of a hangover from that, a trauma from what happened last night.

ALCINDOR: I think people are definitely feeling trauma from that. But I should say that I think a lot of people that I`ve talked to are feeling trauma from a lot of the different shootings.

Just, you know, obviously I`m here in Charlotte and talking about Keith Scott, but there`s also that shooting in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I talked to that family yesterday for a long time. There are all these other shootings and all these other hash tags. So, people I think are feeling a deep trauma seeing a lot of people be killed. And I think also a deep trauma because a lot of these cities have gone out and been part of protests.

So, the idea people are still in some ways I would say catching their breath from Ferguson, the idea we had an American city burn down a few years ago and now we have this in Charlotte. I think some people I would say are carrying that trauma from several years ago.

HAYES: Yeah, do you get a sense in terms of the folks -- there`s sort of been a spectrum of these protests from protests that feel very organized, that feel like there`s a lot of sort of civil society groups that are there and sort of active and organized. There are some that feel much more organic and much more sporadic. Where has this been in terms of that spectrum? I know you`ve covered a number of these kinds of protests.

ALCINDOR: I think like most protests that I`ve covered it`s a mixture of both. I`ve talked to some people who I know have come down and are organizers in some ways, professional organizers. They deal with different activists, they deal with different organized groups that have 501(c)(4)s or 501(c)(3)s. So those people are definitely here.

But then, of course, here are local people in Charlotte that say they are not activists, that sy they are out here because they really want to see what`s going to happen in the Keith Scott case and they`re really feeling just pushed and led to come out and tell people what`s going on in their city.

So, I think it`s a mixture of both. But I should say that both of them are very passionate. So, they are, of course, the people that in some ways do this for a living. They know where to go. They know what chants to say and they know what signs to put up there. And then there are the people that are just feeling very passionate and very upset at what`s going on and just want to share in that way.

HAYES: All right, Yamiche Alcindor of The New York Times. Thank you.

Stay with us. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: Let`s go back to Charlotte now where NBC`s Gabe Gutierrez is with one of the Scott family attorneys, Justin Bamberg -- Gabe.

GABE GUTIERREZ, NBC NEWS: Hi, there. Yes, I`m just speaking with Justin Bamberg, one of the attorneys for the Scott family.

And Justin, just tell me, you just saw the body cam footage and the dashcam footage that the family had been asking to see, correct?

JUSTIN BAMBERG, SCOTT FAMILY ATTORNEY: Yes, sir.

GUTIERREZ: Well, let me just start off by saying it was painful to watch, not just to see him get shot and killed, but to see the reactions on his loved ones` faces.

What I see in that video is an individual who is sitting in a car who gets out in a calm, peaceful manner. He never appears to be aggressive. It seems like he`s a tad confused. I don`t know if he`s getting yelled at from too many directions. His hands are down. There does appear to be some object in his hand, but you can`t make out what it is.

At the moment he is shot, he`s actually stepping backwards.

GUTIERREZ: Did he have a gun?

BAMBERG: As far as I know, I don`t know. You know, we know that law enforcement is saying that he had a gun. I have not seen any definitive evidence aside from what law enforcement is saying.

GUTIERREZ: Now, earlier in the day, during your news conference, you had said that you weren`t sure if you wanted the video to be released. The family wasn`t sure. You wanted to see it first. That is, at the time, was in direct contradiction with at least some of the protesters that wanted transparency, that wanted this video released.

At this point, is the family calling for this video to be released publicly right away?

BAMBERG: Absolutely.

The family wants the police department to release both of the videos that we saw today and we want the public to see it, let them draw their own conclusions and I think it will have a very big impact on what we see going around us here in Charlotte.

GUTIERREZ: Now, the police chief has come out and said specifically that a gun was found on the scene. You and the family dispute that, of course.

But we`ve also seen the still image according to police sources, to our NBC affiliate WCNC that shows within the moments following the shooting a gun at the feet of Mr. Scott. What is your response to that image?

BAMBERG: When I look at the evidence that I have seen, being the dash cam footage and the body cam footage, I do not see a firearm. I do not see a firearm on the ground. I do not see a firearm at any point during those videos. That is what I can speak to.

GUTIERREZ: So you`re not commenting on that picture specifically, you`re commenting on the videos that you have seen.

BAMBERG: I am commenting on the specific facts that we are aware of and have seen with our own eyes.

GUTIERREZ: Now, tell me a little bit deeper about the videos you saw. It was three body cams and then a dash cam video, or tell me exactly -- what - - break down exactly what type of video you saw.

BAMBERG: We specifically saw the dash cam footage from a vehicle that is parked and catches essentially the entire incident from him stepping out of the vehicle until him being shot and him falling on the ground.

We also saw a body cam footage from what appears to be the officer that broke out one of his windows. Of course, when that officer circles the vehicle, the camera catches just the back of his head. So it actually doesn`t see anything thereafter, and there were some problems with the sound on that video.

Those are the two videos we saw.

GUTIERREZ: So, the police chief said today that definitively he could not make out whether Mr. Scott was pointing what he said was a gun, he couldn`t make out whether he was pointing that gun at all. Of course, you are saying you didn`t see any type of gun. But walk me through step by step when did the video start taping and how much does it capture. Does it really answer the question of what happened here?

BAMBERG: It leaves more questions than answers, honestly. This video picks up where he`s sitting in the car. You have two officers positioned on the far side of a pickup truck yelling commands at him. You actually can`t see the other officers too well on the dash cam footage.

It shows him stepping out after some time and it shows him putting his hands down, walking calmly and it shows him stepping back at the moment that he is shot and killed.

GUTIERREZ: Thank you very much, Justin Bamberg, the attorney for the Scott family.

Chris, I`m going to send it back to you.

HAYES: All right, NBC`s Gabe Gutierrez with Scott family attorney Justin Bamberg. Thank you.

Don`t go anywhere. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENITIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Trump, how is debate prep going right now?

TRUMP: Well, I`m here.

UNIDENITIFIED MALE: Democrats for Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: We`ve got four days to go until the first presidential debate. Biggest question for me is, what will actually be debated.

Clinton`s private email server, Trump`s alleged fraud at his university, or will the American people get to hear what the nominees will do as president? It could go in any direction.

So far in this campaign, Trump`s brazen offensiveness has meant the campaign largely about his personality and statements coupled with jabs at Clinton`s server management and foundation, which has made it difficult for Hillary Clinton to drive home what she would do as president, though she`s given it quite a bit of thought.

As the Huffington Post`s Jonathan Cohn points out in his new piece, Clinton`s plans are as unambiguously progressive as any from a Democratic nominee in modern history and almost nobody seems to have noticed.

Joining me now is Jonathan Cohn, senior national correspondent for the Huffington Post.

And Jonathan, it`s a great piece that`s up. And it`s sort of a comprehensive look at her policy vision. One thing that struck me that I felt like I actually learned was the people her say the first bill she would introduce would be a big infrastructure spending jobs bill, which is an area that there`s now some -- Trump is basically saying we need something like that. You`d think maybe that could be something that there would be bipartisan support for.

JONATHAN COHN, HUFFINGTON POST: Well, you would think so in a normal political environment, right? I mean, infrastructure is a popular idea, it`s popular with the public, right? You talk about building bridges, modernizing our airports, improving the electrical grid.

Trump, as you say, has been for it. And, you know, traditionally infrastructure is something the parties can agree on.

The problem is, you know, President Obama`s also been trying to put forward an infrastructure plan, and he hasn`t gotten very far. Right now the politics in congress are so dysfunctional that even a newly elected president, if you imagine if she wins, you can imagine Hillary Clinton coming into the White House, having won the election, it`s going to be really hard to get something like that passed.

HAYES: And I think there`s a relationship between that obstruction and how little the campaign coverage particularly has focused on policy because I think there`s this belief that like what`s really going to happen?

So she`s got a college tuition plan, there`s a policing reform plan, there`s a plan on autism, there`s a plan on access for people with disabilities, there`s tax rates going up for the rich, on real estate, et cetera -- I`m sorry, estates,

There`s all this stuff, right. And the question is well what is this other than binders that you have in your office in Brooklyn?

COHN: Right, right. There is this policy fatalism. And I think everybody feels it. I think if you talk to people who are around Clinton, they would make two points -- three points.

First, they`re not ready to give up yet. Maybe they can get an infrastructure bill, maybe even some action on immigration. But if they do end up with a really obstructionist congress, they still hope they can get some small progress along the way to these goals.

They get a little bit of money to help people with child care, a little bit of money to help people with college tuition.

And the feeling is if you can at least start down that road and show people that government can make a difference in their lives that creates a foundation for action later.

And then, you know, there`s a whole lot that can be done through executive action. And if you talk to progressives, if you talk to the people around Clinton, they are very focused on that. They are very aware of the fact that the president has a lot of authority to set regulations and to enforce regulations. And you are going to see a lot of attention if Hillary Clinton is president to thinking about, all right, who do we put in charge of anti-trust enforcement? Who do we put in charge of regulating the drug industry? And they are going to look for their spots -- at least this is what they say -- to try to implement their agenda that way.

And obviously, you can`t do as much with executive authority as you can by passing laws, but you can make progress.

HAYES: Yeah.

I`m really curious to see how much of this she can drive home in the debate context, because I think it would be useful for her and I think it`s been difficult to sort of break through on this stuff.

Jonathan Cohn, thank you for your time tonight. Appreciate it.

All right, just four days until that debate. You can see it here on MSNBC Monday at 9:00 p.m. Make sure to tune in on Sunday night for a special edition of All In at 7:00 p.m., one hour early, and that makes it -- does it for us -- All In for this evening.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END