Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: September 15, 2016 Guest: Tony Schwartz, Jelani Cobb, Ed Pilkington, Maria Hinojosa
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, everyone, from New York. I`m Joy Reid in for Chris Hayes. We`re going to rejoin the president who`s speaking at the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute Annual Gala. Take a listen.
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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- from the madness of gun violence.
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OBAMA: And yes, we`ve got to finally make meaningful, effective immigration reform a reality in this country.
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OBAMA: Now I`m proud of the executive actions I`ve taken to modernize our system. I`m proud of the work we`ve done to help show more than 740,000 DREAMers that the country they grew up in, the country they love, believes that they are worthy of this country`s blessings, just like your kids, just like my kids.
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OBAMA: But if we`re truly going to fix this broken system, then we`re going to have to push back against bluster and falsehoods and promises of higher walls. We need a comprehensive solution that works for our families and our businesses, that grows our economy, that enhances our culture. We need an approach that upholds our tradition as a nation of immigrants and a nation of lots, and it is possible to do that. It`s possible to insist on a lawful and orderly system while still seeing students and their hardworking parents not as criminals, not as rapists, but as families who came here for the same reasons that all immigrants came here --
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OBAMA: -- to work and to learn and to build a better life. And, look, throughout this political season, you know, the talk around these issues has cut deeper than in years past. It`s a little more personal. It`s a little meaner, a little uglier. And folks are betting that if they can drive us far enough apart and if they can put down enough of us because of where we come from or what we look like or what religion we practice, then that may pay off at the polls. But I`m telling you, that`s a bet they`re going to lose.
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OBAMA: We`ve seen this kind of ugliness and anger and vitriol before. That kind of politics sometimes may carry the day in the short term. I know that there are a lot of folks who had this notion of what the real America looks like and somehow it only includes a few of us. But who`s going to decide who the real America is? Who`s to determine that in this nation of immigrants, in a nation where unless you are a Native American, you came here from someplace else --
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OBAMA: -- that you have a greater claim than anybody here. So we can`t let that brand of politics win. And if we band together and if we organize our communities, if we deliver enough votes, then the better angels of our nature will carry the day and progress will happen. But it`s going to take all of us. This is not something that a president can do alone. It`s not something the next president will be able to do alone either, no matter how tough she is.
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OBAMA: So we`ve got to work to get a Congress that`s willing to act on immigration reform. That means we need more than just the people in this room tonight. We`re going to need some fresh faces under the Capitol dome. It`s going to take work on all of our parts. And I have faith. Because over these last eight years, every time I`ve fallen short, every time I face doubts or been taught a tough lesson or experienced a loss, what got me through has been you. You`ve picked me up. CHC`s picked me up.
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OBAMA: It`s knowing that I`ve got allies like Linda and Ruben and Charlie and Nydia fighting tooth and nail on the hill and back in your home states, even on tough votes. It`s knowing that you`re fostering the next generation of leaders, including more than 40 of your former fellows that have helped lead the way in my administration. It`s knowing you`re giving folks like Diego Qui¤ones a chance. Where`s Diego? Is Diego here? There he is back there. So when Diego was 7 years old, Diego moved to Arkansas from Mexico with his parents. And his dad took a job repairing and building wooden pallets, which is a lot of hard work. Callused hands. A few years later, his dad opened up his own business. So Diego was waking up at 5:00 am and loading and unloading pallets by hand, working every weekend through high school. And his family didn`t have a lot of money, but they had belief, faith in America. Because as he says, and I`m quoting here, if you come here and work hard, eventually you will succeed. And today, thanks to DACA, Diego`s the first in his family to graduate from college.
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OBAMA: And now he`s a fellow here at CHCI. And one day he hopes to go into government himself and make things better not just for Latino kids like him, but for every single person in the United States. It`s young people like that that keep me going. Folks who prove that immigrants aren`t somehow changing the American character, immigrants are the American character.
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OBAMA: That`s who we are. It`s the dreamers full of optimism, the moms and dads working long hours to give their kids a better shot. Entrepreneurs who came here to start new business and put Americans to work. And the teachers and the nurses and the lawyers who wake up at the crack of dawn to get ahead, and the folks who clean up after us, and the folks who care for our grandparents.
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OBAMA: The folks who are so proud of this country that they carry a pocket Constitution in their breast pocket. That`s the America I know.
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OBAMA: That`s the America I believe in more strongly than ever. So thank you for picking me up every step of the way. Thank you for making this country great. We`ve got more work to do, but we will keep on making progress and create a brighter future for everybody in this country we love. Si se puede. Thank you.
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OBAMA: Thank you, CHCI. God bless you. God bless the United States of America. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP) REID: All right, President Obama speaking at the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute Annual Gala. He spoke about the America he knows, the America where folks carry a pocket Constitution in their breast pocket. Of course, that was a reference to Khizr Khan who gave that powerful speech at the Democratic National Committee. Another great line saying that no president can do comprehensive immigration reform alone no matter how tough she is, a little reference there to Hillary Clinton. All right. I`m joined now by my panel tonight: Tony Schwartz is the ghostwriter and who is co-credited as the author of Donald Trump`s book The Art of the Deal, Jelani Cobb, staff writer for the New Yorker and a professor at the Columbia Journalism School, Ed Pilkington, chief reporter for The Guardian U.S., and Maria Hinojosa, anchor and executive producer for NPR`s Latino USA. All right. So I`m going to come to you first on this, Maria, that this is a case that President Obama has made for comprehensive immigration reform before. You saw him make a very vigorous case for it. Does that argument still hold power and strength within the broad Hispanic community, given the fact that there`ve been so many roadblocks to getting it done?
MARIA HINOJOSA, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, LATINO USA: So I was actually at that event eight years ago when the president first spoke, just after being elected. And it was a total lovefest at the CHCI for the president then. Then two years ago when he went, he was heckled. Of course, at that point he`d already been called the Deporter-In-Chief. So tonight, the fact that he gave this speech, that here was no heckling, that there was a unified -- and I was at some of the CHCI events before, and not everybody is, you know, falling in line. So to see that, that`s big. It was an opportunity for the president to change the narrative about who Latinos and Latinas are, who immigrants are, because that narrative has been set in large part by the Trump campaign at this point. So it was a moment for him to say, you know, immigrants are not changing the American character, immigrants are the American character. Maybe it`s a line that`s been heard a lot, but for Latinos and Latinas and voters who right now need high touch from the Democratic Party. High touch, that stood probably very well.
REID: And, Jelani, that is really the point, right? But you`re seeing that Hillary Clinton is obviously doing much better than Donald Trump who`s for various reasons isn`t doing well with voters of color. But you`re also seeing Hillary Clinton -- a softness in her support versus what Barack Obama had either in 2008 and 2012. Can Barack Obama fill that in for her, or is there something proactively she needs to do in addition?
JELANI COBB, PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA JOURNALISM SCHOOL: Well, I think that she needs to do -- certainly that`s important. But what struck me about this in what the president was saying was that it was so much the opposite of what do you have to lose? Like, he was saying specifically this is what we`re interested in, this is what we`re invested in, this is what we`re trying to do, this is what we want the country to look like. And it`s not a kind of appeal to desperation or, well, why not, why not do this, nothing else has worked, and it seems almost to remind me of the Obama of `04 and `08 who wanted to be above the kind of divisions in the country, to be a person who could actually bring things together.
REID: Yes. And, Tony, you know, the interesting thing about it is, you know, you have Barack Obama who very clearly wants to see Hillary Clinton win for many a number of reasons, obviously, his legacy, but a real clear feeling and emotion about Donald Trump who sort of made his international reputation on birtherism and on constantly questioning the citizenship, the Americanness, of the president. And these issues like immigration are his kind of bedrock. So is he counting on the sentiment against people of color, against immigrants, against Latino being stronger than what you just saw?
TONY SCHWARTZ, CO-AUTHOR, THE ART OF THE DEAL: Speaks for itself.
REID: Yes.
SCHWARTZ: I mean, he lives and dies by that. I mean, he`s a divider, and he`s a polarizer, and he wants to appeal to a very narrow segment of the various parts of the rainbow, not necessarily a small segment of the voting public. And clearly his campaign, run by people who have lived that same ethic, have the same end in mind, so yes.
REID: What do you think his personal feeling is toward President Obama? Do you think it`s his envy of the position he`s achieved, is it disdain, what do you think his attitude and feeling is toward Obama?
SCHWARTZ: You know, interestingly I think one of the most central facets of Donald Trump that doesn`t get talked about because people don`t think it`s true is the deep self-hatred that he has, which is also reflected in a deep insecurity. And he projects onto others what he feels about himself. So I think there`s no question that he has a hatred for Obama because Obama represents a vast range of qualities he can`t come near embodying.
REID: Yes. You know, and so you have this sort of setup now, right, where you have President Obama coming out. Hillary Clinton`s back on the campaign trail today trying to sort of reinvigorate her support, bring up the affirmative support for her versus just the vote against Donald Trump piece of it. How important, in your view, will the president be in doing that for her, or is that something she can only do for herself?
ED PILKINGTON, CHIEF REPORTER, THE GUARDIAN U.S.: I think it`s now time that she steps up and starts doing it for herself. I mean, there`s been this tiny lull. It`s only been a few days with the sickness, and yet already you feel Trump kind of winding back up again and the polls seem to be showing it. It`s very easy to panic over polls. You get a new one every day and, you know, it drives you mad. But I think, you know, to counter what`s been said so far, I think that Trump is more of a danger than any of us should think --
COBB: Mm-hmm.
PILKINGTON: -- in that he is in the sense he`s the opposite of Hillary and to some extent Obama. He`s a much more narrow politician. He`s got far fewer skills. What he can do is say a few things very, very simply, and he`s getting those things across. And they are the flip side of the appeal to Latinos and African-American voters. You could call it racist, if you like. Maybe it`s not as overt as that, but the polls are showing the white voters are coming around to him --
HINOJOSA: Yes.
PILKINGTON: -- and maybe immigration`s one reason for that.
REID: And it`s just fascinating the extent to which this feels like (INAUDIBLE).
PILKINGTON: Mm-hmm.
REID: The way the Trump campaign feels like, you know, the pushing back against authority, sort of disdaining the idea of expertise and just appealing to the sort of limbic brain of people who think immigrants are the problem.
HINOJOSA: And everybody thought it would never happen.
REID: That it would never happen. And we`re going to talk more about that when we come back. My panel is definitely sticking around. Hillary Clinton is expected to speak at any moment. We will have her remarks as well, and much more just ahead.
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REID: You are looking at live pictures inside the hall in D.C. Hillary Clinton is expected to speak at any moment now at the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Gala in D.C. after taking three days off to recover from a case of non-life-threatening pneumonia. Hillary Clinton was back on the campaign trail today and giving lots and lots of face time to the media, chatting with reporters on board her plane, speaking at a rally in Greensborough, North Carolina, and later holding a brief press conference. And as we just mentioned, Clinton is due to address the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute`s Annual Awards Gala, and we will bring that to you live as soon as it starts. Her warmup act was one President Barack Obama. Clinton returns to the campaign trail just as polls show the race tightening, not surprisingly, given this past week`s news cycle. She`s now statistically tied with Trump among likely voters nationwide, according to a brand new poll from the New York Times and CBS News, leading by just two points within the margin of error in a two-way race. And in a four-way race, they are dead even. In Ohio, a new poll from Suffolk University has Clinton trailing Trump by just three points, also within the margin of error. And in Iowa she slipped to a margin of eight points behind Trump according to a Monmouth University poll. Technically, by the way, that is still within the margin of error for this particular sample. Absorb that. Clinton was asked about the state of the race at her press conference earlier today.
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I`ve always said that this was going to be a tight race. I`ve said it from the very beginning, whether I was up, down, it didn`t matter. I`m very proud of the campaign that we have put together. I feel like we are in a strong position going into these last weeks. What matters is who registers to vote and who is motivated and mobilized to turn out to vote.
REID: Meanwhile, her opponent is continuing his efforts to act like a conventional and acceptable candidate, laying out a pretty standard Republican economic plan in his speech this morning. For a while he had to rely on a hard copy after the teleprompter malfunctioned. But Trump couldn`t help Trumping after an embarrassing incident yesterday when Pastor Faith Green Timmons interrupted him during a speech at her church in Flint Michigan.
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DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everything she touched didn`t work out. Nothing. Now Hillary Clinton --
FAITH GREEN TIMMONS, PASTOR, BETHEL UNITED METHODIST CHURCH: Mr. Trump?
TRUMP: Yes?
TIMMONS: I invited you here to thank us for what we`ve done --
TRUMP: Oh, oh, oh, OK, OK.
TIMMONS: -- not to give --
TRUMP: OK.
TIMMONS: -- a political speech.
TRUMP: OK. That`s good. Then I`m going to go back onto Flint, OK.
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REID: In an interview this morning, Trump attacked Reverend Timmons, suggesting that she had planned in advance to make him look bad.
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TRUMP: When she got up to introduce me, she was so nervous, she was shaking. And I said, wow, this is sort of strange. And then she came up. So she had that in mind, there`s no question about it. But she was so nervous, she was like a nervous mess.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was the --
TRUMP: And so I figured something was up, really.
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REID: We`ll be fact-checking Trump`s account of what happened coming up in just a bit. But this afternoon Clinton called him out for smearing a private citizen who also happens to be a leader in a struggling community.
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CLINTON: He called her a nervous mess. That`s not only insulting, it`s dead wrong. Reverend Faith Green Timmons is not a nervous mess, she`s a rock for her community in trying times. She deserves better than that, and Flint deserves better. In fact, so does America.
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REID: Still with me, Tony Schwartz, Jelani Cobb, Ed Pilkington and Maria Hinojosa. And, Tony, you know, you visibly -- you sort of physically reacted when you heard Donald Trump going after this reverend. This tick of not being able to take any criticism and going after people like the reverend, explain, what is this about in Donald Trump?
SCHWARTZ: It`s an absolute inability to tolerate criticism because the minute that he gets it, it makes him feel -- as I was suggesting just a moment ago -- inadequate. And it`s intolerable for him to feel inadequate. You know, it`s very interesting in watching that interview and the rest of the Flint experience and the TV appearance he did with the other religious figure in Detroit is that they`re -- you know, to me there are four or five reasons that Donald Trump is unqualified to be president. And three of the most important of them were evidenced in those experiences. One is the extraordinary level of ignorance. The unbelievably oversimplified approach to, in this case, how do we deal with the Flint problem, how do we deal with the African-American communities issues, and to stereotype them, to describe that community as poor and desperate and, you know, to fail to recognize the diversity of that community, that`s one. The second is that he`s a divider and I would use the word racist. It`s not only applicable to African-Americans, it`s applicable to a lot of groups. And the third is this messianic quality that makes him think I will solve this, and the way I`ll solve this is I`ll bring you jobs.
REID: Yes.
SCHWARTZ: As if that`s just something you snap your fingers and do. So the idea that, you know, I believe that he is a real and present threat to be elected. But the idea that he is, is to me both terrifying and ultimately incomprehensible.
REID: You know, and Jelani, the other thing I think that I would add to the sort of litany of Trump things that I`ve noticed -- and I noticed it here and I also noticed it with the Mexican president is sort of a combination of passiveness and aggressiveness, right. So he`s very aggressive, particularly when it comes to communities of color, talking about communities of color. If he`s standing in front of a mostly white audience, he can throw those bombs --
COBB: Right.
REID: -- about how bad your community is. But in the presence of that pastor, when she actually --
HINOJOSA: Mm-hmm.
COBB: Mm-hmm, that`s right.
REID: -- confronted him personally one-on-one, he immediately backed down.
COBB: Has he ever said anything to anyone`s face where he was being criticized and he actually responded? I think in the Republican debates, perhaps he did. But those were people who were all afraid of him. That was one of the things that was notable about that campaign. I mean, he talked about Jeb Bush`s wife and Jeb Bush barely responded. These are people who behaved as if they were afraid of him. But for people who are not afraid of him -- he`s like his close friend, Mike Tyson. You know, Mike Tyson never beat any boxer who wasn`t afraid of him.
REID: Right.
COBB: And so --
REID: Yes.
COBB: -- Donald Trump is in that same category. And it`s a classic kind of bully mentality.
REID: The friend that isn`t endorsing him, by the way, and who didn`t --
COBB: Right.
REID: -- want to show up at the RNC. Well, we have to turn to another sort of interesting and sort of weird thing that happened in Trump world today. So Donald Trump`s surrogates have been going out and insisting that he now believes that President Obama was born in the United States and he`s no longer a birther. However, the candidate himself -- despite what Rudy Giuliani and others are trying to say, his campaign manager -- still won`t say that Barack Obama was born in the U.S. This is what he said in an interview with the Washington Post. "I`ll answer that question at the right time. I just don`t want to answer it yet." Ed, what is this about?
PILKINGTON: Well, is it about him not being able to confess his past mistakes? Is it about the fact that he still thinks Obama is not an American and that his birth certificate is false? I mean, who knows what`s going on in his head.
REID: But given the sort of history now here and what we`ve just talked about, I wonder if he was in front of President Obama if he would say that to his face. Because he said it about him since 2011.
HINOJOSA: I think he probably wouldn`t. I think that that reaction that he had when the reverend came up and moved him, it`s like, oh, I`m going to allow you to interrupt me. So he does kind of play this, you know, passive and -- but then comes out to -- I don`t think he would. I absolutely don`t think he would. But I think the more important story is the fact that we have an interpretation of what happened in Detroit with the reverend that Donald Trump is saying, and we have reporters, political reporters, who are based on fact saying, that did not happen. And so yet again, reality, fact, versus the interpretation of Donald Trump (INAUDIBLE).
REID: And he says it with incredible confidence when he`s on FOX as if nobody can refute it as if there isn`t video.
COBB: But can I add one quick point here?
REID: Sure.
COBB: We can understand why someone like Vladimir Putin would look at this and be eager to have a Donald Trump presidency. Putin, who`s the classic kind of international strongman --
REID: Yes.
COBB: -- against someone who has not mustered the temerity or the will to actually stand up for himself whenever he`s challenged.
REID: Yes.
COBB: I mean, he has to be kind of licking his chops and thinking that this is his opportunity for there to be an American Yeltsin.
REID: And who to be manipulated seems only to need flattery.
COBB: Right.
REID: Only to need flattery. It is a kind of daunting process. OK, if you guys can stay with me, the panel, we will have a lot more to discuss. And again, I will remind you, we are awaiting Hillary Clinton who will be live at the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute`s Annual Awards Gala. And we`ll bring that to you, but we`re going to sneak in a break. We`ll be right back.
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REID: This weekend in Ohio, Hillary Clinton will get some help on the campaign trail from her former rival, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. Sanders is being dispatched to get out the millennial vote holding events on college campuses in the Buckeye State. Our very own Chris Hayes got a chance to talk with the senator earlier today, and he asked him about his experience out on the road.
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CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Did you find the campaigning physically grueling, do you find it taxing?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VT.: Yes and no, to be very honest with you. Look, when you give three rallies a day and you`re getting on a plane and you`re traveling around, you`re going to a new hotel, that is hard. But on a personal level, I get inspired. When I go out and you talk to 5,000, 10,000, 15,000 beautiful people, often young people, with so much hope in their eyes who know and want to make this country into something more than we are, it really -- it`s like, you know, a real rush to me. And, you know, you see those kids, you love those kids, it`s mutual. It`s a beautiful thing, a beautiful thing. And you go on to the next rally and it happens again. And that`s what kept me going.
HAYES: You`re going to be hitting the trail -- are you going to be out on the road a lot in the next -- until the election?
SANDERS: The Senate gets out next week. I`m going to take a few days off and after that I`m going to be campaigning full-time. I do not want Donald Trump to be the president of the United States. And I say that because I have seven beautiful grandchildren and four kids. I do not want Trump to be their president.
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REID: Wow. You can catch the full Chris Hayes interview with Bernie Sanders tomorrow night at 8:00 pm right here on ALL IN. And still to come, we are moments away from Hillary Clinton`s address to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. Stay tuned.
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TRUMP: It doesn`t bother me. I`ll tell you what really made me feel good, the audience was saying let him speak, let him speak. And I`ll tell you, the audience was fantastic, but she was so nervous, she was like a nervous mess.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: That is how Donald Trump described the moment yesterday in Flint, Michigan, that we`ve been discussing.
When Pastor Faith Green Timmons interrupted Trump when he launched into an attack on Hillary Clinton. Reverend Timmons told Trump that he had not been invited her to church to give a political speech.
But Timmons was not a, quote, nervous mess as Trump claimed and the audience was not yelling, let him speak. In fact, members of the audience were heckling Trump and Timmons actually asked them to stop.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Flint`s pain is a result of so many different failures and I must say -- no, I never, never would, never would. And frankly, TIME magazine, as you know, they reported this year that the federal government have got a long way to go to bring Flint back. And I look at the damage done and the damage -- and the damage can be taken care of.
FAITH GREEN TIMMONS, PASTOR: You guys are a guest in my church and you will respect him. That`s right.
UNIDENITIFIED FEMALE: Amen.
TRUMP: Thank you, pastor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: OK. That was yesterday.
We now also have video of Trump with another Michigan pastor, an interview he taped during that visit to a Detroit church nearly two weeks ago. Here`s a bit of what he said to Bishop Wayne Jackson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am the least racist person that you`ve ever met and you can speak to Don King who knows me very well, you can speak to so many different people. And they say so many of my friends who are black, they say you are the least racist person. But I know I am the least racist person that you have ever talked to. That I can tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: All righty then.
Back with me, Tony Schwartz, Jelani Cobb, Ed Pilkington, and Maria Hinojosa.
All right, I have to -- I will throw this to the table.
It is interesting, Tony -- maybe I`ll come to you first on this, because this question of projection, no pastor has ever been nervous in their own pulpit. This is her church, OK. She was not nervous. But Donald Trump seemed actually visibly nervous when he`s standing there and he`s being confronted by the crowd. And they`re saying why did you do housing discrimination? And they`re heckling him. He actually is the one who seemed nervous.
SCHWARTZ: Look, Donald Trump has lived literally his entire life moving from a penthouse to a limousine to a private plane. This is the one and only time he will ever visit Flint and he actually spoke for five minutes. Let`s not miss that. He spoke for five minutes and he probably was happier to get out of there than any single event of his life.
So, yes, he`s in a state of tremendous discomfort when he`s in a community that is completely foreign to him.
REID: And Maria, it`s interesting because this is a time when he`s actually confronting a woman. And that is actually telling because he is facing these debates with Hillary Clinton. And you`re seeing him in that space with the pastor of this church who is a woman who is both saving him from the crowd at one point, but also confronting him on the stage.
What did you get from sort of his body language? The seeming discomfort that he felt in that space?
HINOJOSA: You know, I actually was -- I actually was at an event once with Donald Trump, actually it was a Broadway show, Def Poetry Jam as a matter of fact. He left halfway through. But his body language there, and when I was watching him interacting, he is not a person who enjoys getting close to other people.
So I think that you did see him kind of, you know, trying to keep it under control. But, you know, imagine if he was doing this in front of a Latino audience. Imagine that. I just -- although we did see him in Mexico, which was...
REID: We didn`t see him going through a crowd. He was brought into that space. You never saw him actually interacting with the crowds either outside at church...
HINOJOSA: He does not like to -- we know this, and that`s what I was going to say when I saw him -- he does not like to shake hands. There was a little pile of wipes that he left behind.
REID: He`s germophobic.
HINOJOSA: He`s germophobic.
But you know when people are interacting and they see that, what it communicates about you is that there`s something wrong with you that I have to clean my hands after I speak to you.
REID: It is interesting, though, because I do feel, Jelani, like people of color are the ultimate prop for the Donald Trump campaign. They are the thing that sort of animates him and gets him excited about talking.
Mexico is going to build the wall. Your communities are terrible, what do you have to lose? He sort of a Twitter warrior.
COBB: ...right.
REID: Exactly, but he definitely exhibits, "a," a discomfort, but "b" he then makes up a story about what happened that clearly didn`t happen and you can prove didn`t happen.
COBB: Yeah, I mean, I think it`s a very weird thing. And one of the -- just as a kind of quick point, he literally used the some of my best friends are black defense, and then doubled it with the Don King is one of them, which I think that gets points for originality if nothing else. I`ve never seen that defense used.
But the other thing about the way he interacts with people of color and the way that people have kind of become props is that it is the kind of id 1980s white reactionary id to what people of color are, like always the kind of menance -- the ambient menace, and the city is going to go to hell because of all these people of color. And he`s just extrapolated that out to a national outlook on politics and policy. That`s who we`re dealing with here.
REID: And, you know, we got to go to break but I have to ask Ed this one question, you interview people all the time, all you guys have. Have you ever heard somebody use the construction that somebody affirmatively said to them in a conversation with a friend, you`re the least racist person I know because there`s so much to that that`s weird. Does it mean you know people who are more racist but you`re less racist than them? I never heard that phraseology.
PILKINGTON: Yeah, and I think it exposes in him, you know, quite deep levels of psychological difficulty. But, but can I just quickly turn it around?
REID: Sure.
PILKINGTON: And, you know, we mustn`t lose sight of the fact that this is a guy who is talking to millions of Americans and they are responding to him. And it would be a huge mistake to just get wrapped up in what extraordinarily odd candidate he is and forget the fact that to some degree it`s working.
REID: Yes.
PILKINGTON: People are responding to him. He does have a connection. Here`s a guy who can`t touch anyone, but he`s actually being responded to by millions of Americans.
So what`s going on? What does this tell Hillary Clinton she needs to do before November?
REID: Excellent.
SCHWARTZ: Joy, I have one quick thing. I think he`s -- actually what he`s most truthful about is lying. He is a truthful liar. You can count on him to lie in every circumstance. So when you are asking about what happened afterward, reinterpret it, you can bet on the fact he will tell you the opposite of what actually happened and that`s what he`s made acceptable. That`s what -- it`s that truthiness taken to a whole new level.
HINOJOSA: Because if he`s the least racist person in the United States of America...
COBB: Wow.
HINOJOSA: Then what does an actual, in his view, racist look like?
REID: Yeah.
HINOJOSA: It`s very scary. It`s very, very scary.
REID: To Ed`s point, that we cannot lose sight of the fact there are millions of people responding to this.
We`re going to take a quick break. We`re just a few minutes away from Hillary Clinton. She`s going to take the stage in D.C. We`re going to bring that speech to you live right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: All right, Tony Schwartz, Jelani Cobb, Ed Pilkington and Maria Hinojosa are here.
And in the break, you were making a point, Jelani, that I really want you to get a chance to make on it.
COBB: Yeah, one of the more pernicious things about this outreach that -- the Trump campaign has had toward African-Americans is that there`s an attempt to enroll black people in the kind of xenophobia he`s directed at Latinos. And he said this explicitly, when he said people are taking jobs from people, he`s taking jobs from African-Americans who really need them and so on.
And so trying to turn what is a negative, in his belief, into positive political asset I think runs afoul of many African-Americans is the belief that if you hate Muslims in the morning, you hate Latinos in the afternoon, you`re certainly going to hate us by evening.
REID: Yeah.
COBB: And so I think there`s that kind of dynamic. But that is exactly what I think is behind this kind of xenophobic appeal that he`s trying to use with African-Americans.
REID: And yet African-Americans are the most diametrically opposed -- other than Mormons -- to Donald Trump.
And Maria, there`s been a certain extent to which Latinos have attempted to be enrolled in that as well sort of saying we`re going to separate people who are legal migrants, people who came to this country through the normal system and people who are undocumented trying to separate them and create the same dynamic.
HINOJOSA: The good immigrant versus the bad immigrant, which is why when Obama said let`s just talk about the fact that unless you`re Native American, everyone has somehow been brought here, or came to this country.
So, again, attempting to change the narrative of what Donald Trump is putting out there.
REID: So let`s talk a little bit about Hillary Clinton, because she is back out on the campaign trail. I think that the news cycle being fixated on her having pneumonia and then using that to further a narrative that she`s somehow dishonest because she didn`t tell the press about her illness.
It obviously has had an impact on her poll numbers, Ed. You`re seeing the race tighten up, which is what you should expect when you have that kind of a news cycle.
Is Hillary Clinton now in a position where her only sort of option is to kind of flood the zone with contact, constantly be in contact with the media, constantly try to talk up news cycle items she wants on the record?
PILKINGTON: I don`t think so. I think the problem she`s had up to now is that`s part of her tendency, she always has to know everything. She has to have all the figures. She has to know every single fact and has to bombard people with that.
She needs to take a leaf out of Trump`s book which is keep it simple, engage with people, come across as sincere. And I think if she can do that in the next six weeks, she`ll be fine.
HINOJOSA: Can I just say, Joy, she looks phenomenal. For three days of rest with pneumonia. I`m like, thank you, Hillary Clinton, you just raised the bar for the rest of us women who are always working, who always say yes to do everything, and now -- because I was saying you need to leave her alone for seven days to recuperate from a pneumonia. And it`s like here she is doing this.
So, I`m happy that she looks so wonderful because that allows us to believe that, you know, recuperating from a pneumonia is something that you can do but it raised the bar for the rest of us.
REID: It surprises me that the campaign didn`t use that more to her advantage. To say, look, this is a woman who did 11 hours in front of the hostile Republican committee, and now look she`s back up after three days. They haven`t really used it very effectively, have they?
COBB: No, they haven`t.
But I think the other thing -- the other part of the narrative that people have said they kind of self-righteously jumped on the Clinton campaign and said that she hasn`t been transparent about her health, but the Trump campaign has pretty much been allowed to tee off with these conspiracy theories about her health and they haven`t been really checked.
And so part of the reason why they are probably reticent to disclose this kind of information is the fact that it has not been a kind of accountability on the other side of it. And the media is certainly implicated there.
REID: That is absolutely true, to say nothing of being able to say, no, we`re not releasing our taxes. No, we won`t explain the Trump Foundation. No, we`re not going to explain our business ties. We`re just no, no, no, and it works.
SCHWARTZ: Yeah. You know what`s kind of wonderfully illuminating about this whole health back and forth is that Trump we don`t quite know for sure whether Trump is approximately 40 pounds overweight or 70 pounds overweight, but both are obese. And listen, there are a million reasons why people gain weight, but what`s so interesting about Trump is that this was an athlete, this was a guy who is...
REID: Other than the bone spurs that kept him out of Vietnam.
SCHWARTZ: Yes. That`s right. He was (inaudible) not.
But this is a guy who`s told you what a great athlete he was and to me his weight gain, his absence of exercising is a measure of his discipline, of his self- discipline which is incredibly low.
REID: Yeah.
I mean, to say nothing of his diet which seems to consist mostly of fried food.
I want to let you guys know what you`re looking at there. We are waiting for Hillary Clinton. We were looking at a little bit of rope line, the person that you saw speaking on the stage a little bit earlier was Linda Sanchez introducing Hillary Clinton.
What can she accomplish -- that`s Linda Sanchez there, she`s talking about Hillary Clinton. So, we`re waiting for Hillary to come on.
What can Hillary Clinton accomplish for herself tonight do you think, Maria?
HINOJOSA: She`s got to accomplish a lot. As I said before at the top of the show, right now the Latino community needs high touch. And so for her to be there is important.
REID: I think she introduced her.
HINOJOSA: I think she just introduced her.
REID: Keep going.
HINOJOSA: Again, she`s got to also be honest, right. She`s got to be honest in we hope this love for Latinos and Latinas.
REID: Yeah.
HINOJOSA: But I am telling you, that they need to invigorate the Latino -- the young Latinos and however they do it, whether it is with Hillary, herself, or whether it is with surrogates, they need to flood the zone.
Because again, there is a real desire to feel visible. Latinos have been the centerpiece of the attacks.
REID: Yeah.
HINOJOSA: And yet...
REID: And they need to feel a affirmatively. Absolutely there. I have to see some affirmative campaigning.
There she is. She is on stage. Let`s take a listen.
CLINTON: It is so great to be back here with so many friends and to see so many young people here, because that fit`s the theme this year, educate, engage, vote. And I can`t think of better marching orders for the next 54 days, and anyone who just heard, the Congresswoman knows we cannot be on the sidelines. This is the most consequential election in our lifetimes. I want to recognize the Institute, for all you do to inspire the next generation of Latino leaders.
(APPLAUSE)
Last year, I had the chance to spend time with some of the CHCI interns and fellows. It really was like seeing the future of America in one room. I can`t wait to see everything that they achieve, and I can`t wait -- if I`m fortunate enough to be president -- to put some of them to work.
(APPLAUSE)
And I want to thank all my friends in the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. You fight every single day to lift up the Latino community. When the cameras are rolling and when the cameras are off, at home in your districts and here in Washington. And no one understands better than you, the pivotal moment we`re at right now. Not just for Latinos, but for our country.
My friends in the Caucus have traveled to every battleground state. Registered voters, you`ve stayed focused, no matter what kind of outlandish and offense comments we have heard from my opponent and his supporters. By the way, I personally think a taco truck on every corner sounds absolutely delicious.
(APPLAUSE)
Now, here`s a confession. Running for president is never easy. But it shouldn`t be right? But tonight, I have the ultimate challenge, speaking after President Obama. He`s always a tough act to follow, in more ways than one. I for one, don`t think the president gets the credit he deserves for rescuing our economy from another great depression.
(APPLAUSE)
Think of what we`ve achieved these last eight years. American businesses have created 15 million new jobs since the recession. Twenty million Americans have health coverage. And no one has seen a bigger drop in uninsured rates under the Affordable Care Act than Latino Americans.
(APPLAUSE)
We got more good news this week. A report came out showing that poverty is going down and incomes for American families are going up. And Latino families have seen the biggest increase of all. Now, that doesn`t mean we rest on our laurels by any stretch. Our work is far from finished. But I am more confident than ever, that our best days are still ahead of us. I believe with all my heart that the American dream is alive and it`s big enough for everyone to share its promise.
(APPLAUSE)
That doesn`t mean that lots of people are still not hurting, because I know they are. And when you hear a presidential candidate spewing bigotry and hate, it`s easy to get discouraged. But we`re here because we know this election is a choice between not just two people, but two very different visions for America`s future. Either we`re going to make our economy work for everyone, or just those at the top. Either we`re going to fear our differences, or embrace and celebrate our diversity. Either we`re going to pit Americans against each other and deepen the divides, or we`re going to be stronger together. Today...
(APPLAUSE)
Today, as you know, we`re in the midst of Hispanic Heritage Month. In classrooms across America, children will study Dolores Huerta, Cesar Chavez, Julian and Joaquin Castro, Justice Sotomayor, Roberto Clemente and Lori Hernandez, Gloria Estefan and Lynn Manuel Miranda and countless others.
(APPLAUSE)
Names we know and names we might not know, but everyone of whom has enriched this country for generations. Whether your Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Latin American, Afro-Latino, whether your family just arrived or has been here before the United States even existed...
(APPLAUSE)
You`re not strangers, you`re not intruders. You`re are neighbors, our colleagues, our friends, our families. You make our nation stronger, smarter, more creative, and I want you to know that I see you and I am with you. And time and again...
(APPLAUSE)
... time and again we have seen that when we invest in the community, when we make it possible for Latinos to get the health care you need, get the education you desire, compete for jobs, start new businesses, pursue your dreams, all of America benefits. As I said this afternoon in North Carolina, we are in the final stretch of this election. And I intend to close my campaign the way I began my career, fighting for kids and families. That`s been the cause of my life, it will be the passion of my presidency.
(APPLAUSE)
So, tonight I want to mention two things I`ll do in the first 100 days of my administration, to help families in every corner of America. First, we do need to create an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top. There`s something wrong, when Latinos are 17 percent of our country`s population but hold only 2 percent of it`s wealth.
We`ve got to work together to connect more Latinos with good jobs that pay good wages. With more opportunities to get the skills they need, to go to college, to launch new ventures, to build wealth that can be passed on to your kids and your grandkids. So we`re going to make -- in my first 100 days -- the biggest investment in new good paying jobs since World War II. Jobs in infrastructure, manufacturing, technology, innovation, clean energy.
And we`re going to cut red tape and taxes and expand access to capital for small businesses, including the Latino owned small businesses that create so many jobs and so much growth, in communities everywhere. And I want to give a particular shout out to Latina small business owners.
(APPLAUSE)
Not everyone knows this, but you are among the fastest growing group of entrepreneurs in America.
(APPLAUSE)
And we`re going to put families first with new solutions that reflect the way people live and work today. Supporting families with paid family leave, earned sick days, and affordable child care, isn`t a luxury, it`s a necessity. When families are strong, America is strong. And that brings me to another important family issue. In those first 100 days, I will send a proposal for comprehensive immigration reform to the Congress.
(APPLAUSE)
My proposal will keep families together and it will include a path to citizenship.
(APPLAUSE)
Now, I know this isn`t the first time you`ve heard it, in fact, people have been making the same promise for more than a decade. But I believe with all my heart, that some things are too important to give up on. I`ve been called a lot of things, I`ve never been called a quitter. And in this election -- in this election we have a chance to show that comprehensive immigration reform isn`t just the smart thing to do, it`s what the American people demand. And you know how we`ll show that? Well I hope to have a Democratic Congress next January.
(APPLAUSE)
But, no matter what, on my first day in office, I will reach out to Republicans and say, this is your chance to help millions of families and show that your party, the party of Lincoln is better than Donald Trump.
(APPLAUSE)
And while we`re fighting for comprehensive immigration reform, we`re going to keep families together. When the deadlock Supreme Court put DAPA and expanded DACA on hold for 5 million immigrants, it was devastating to millions of families. But the court didn`t actually rule on the substance of the case. And as I`ve said -- repeatedly -- I believe that DAPA and expanded DACA are squarely within the president`s authority. And I will protect them and keep fighting for them.
But in addition to defending DAPA and DACA, there`s more we can do. We need a simple straightforward system. Where other people with sympathetic cases, who are contributing to their communities can make their case, and be eligible for deferred action to. Like people who experience and report extreme labor abuses, and we won`t stop there. We`re going to end family detention, close private detention facilities and stop the raids and round ups.
REID: That`s Hillary Clinton speaking at the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute`s annual gala. I`m Joy Reid. Chris Hayes will be back here tomorrow. Our coverage continues with Rachel Maddow.
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