All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 8/31/2016

Blake Farenthold, Joaquin Castro, Dan Rather, Francisco Goldman, Greg Stanton, Javier Palomerez, Jennifer Granholm, Lorella Praeli

Date: August 31, 2016
Guest: Blake Farenthold, Joaquin Castro, Dan Rather, Francisco Goldman,
Greg Stanton, Javier Palomerez, Jennifer Granholm, Lorella Praeli

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN –


for the wall?


HAYES (voice-over): Donald Trump, lost in translation.


TRUMP: Who pays for the wall? We didn`t discuss.


HAYES (voice-over): Tonight why Donald Trump chickened out of demanding
payment for his border wall. How the Mexican people received a foreign
candidate who`s been insulting them for over a year. And can Donald
Trump`s last-minute surprise gamble actually pay off? Plus, the Clinton
response, and Hillary`s American exceptionalism appeal to Ohio.


shining city on a hill.


HAYES (voice-over): And ahead of Trump`s big immigration speech, a reality


TRUMP: We don`t even have a border. People are just flowing through like
water. There is no border right now.


HAYES (voice-over): We`ll show you where Donald Trump is misleading voters
on immigration when ALL IN starts right now.

HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. It is a very big
news night and has been a very big news day. We are now just one hour from
Donald Trump`s highly anticipated speech on immigration in Arizona where we
hope we`ll finally get a clear answer to the question his campaign
steadfastly refuses to answer, or has steadfastly refused to answer of
late. Does Trump still back a so-called deportation force who would scour
the country to forcibly expel the roughly 11 million people living in the
U.S. without documentation? Which was Trump`s position in the Republican
primary. Or is he now reversing his stance in favor of policy more
palatable to general election voters? Much more on that shortly. But
first we take you to Mexico, a country Trump has repeatedly vilified and
whose people largely distain Trump in return. And where Mexico`s president
Enrique Pena Nieto is now directly contradicting what Donald Trump said
happened during their meeting in Mexico City today. Pena Nieto is saying
he made it clear Mexico will not pay for Trump`s so-called wall, a
contradiction the Clinton campaign is seizing on tonight and calling Trump
a liar. Trump`s visit to Mexico marked his first foreign campaign trip as
a presidential candidate. He met with Mexico`s president behind closed
doors. The two men appeared together after their meeting with Pena Nieto
speaking first in Spanish as Trump listened to a translator. Despite
having in the past likened Trump`s rhetoric to that of Adolf Hitler and
Benito Mussolini, Pena Nieto adopted a largely collegial tone, describing
his conversation with Trump as, quote, open and constructive. But he also
offered Trump something of a public reality check referencing the fall in
unauthorized migration from Mexico to the U.S. and the illegal flow of guns
from the U.S. into Mexico, and pointedly stating Mexicans are good people
and deserve respect. Trump spoke next, and while he called Mexicans drug
dealers, criminals and rapists on the campaign trail, he adopted a very,
very different tone today.


TRUMP: I happen to have a tremendous feeling for Mexican-Americans, not
only in terms of friendships but in terms of the tremendous numbers that I
employ in the United States. And they are amazing people, amazing people.
I have many friends, so many friends, and so many friends coming to Mexico
and in Mexico. I am proud to say how many people I employ. And the United
States first, second and third generation Mexicans are just beyond
reproach, spectacular, spectacular hardworking people. I have such great
respect for them and their strong values of family, faith and community.


HAYES: Trump also indirectly addressed the elephant in the room, his
planned wall along the U.S./Mexico border.


TRUMP: We recognize and respect the right of either country to build a
physical barrier or wall on any of its borders to stop the illegal movement
of people, drugs, and weapons.


HAYES: On the campaign trail, Trump has famously insisted that Mexico will
pay for that wall, a claim that appears to delight many of his supporters,
including this guy spotted at a Trump rally in March.


TRUMP: Mexico does not like us. Mexico is not our friend. Mexico is the
new China. Mexico will pay – you mark my words – I win. Mexico pays.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: How are you going to make them pay for the wall?

TRUMP: I will, and the wall just got 10 feet taller. Believe me.



TRUMP: Who`s going to pay for the wall? Who`s going to pay? I didn`t
hear you. Who`s going to pay?

CROWD: Mexico!

TRUMP: Better believe it.


HAYES: Now today was Trump`s big opportunity to back up all that tough
talk over months. And according to former Tea Party Congressman Joe Walsh,
“If real Donald Trump comes back from Mexico tomorrow with a big check from
Mexico to pay for that wall, that`s game set match.” If you`re watching,
Joe Walsh, I`ve got some bad news.


TRUMP: We didn`t discuss who pays for the wall, we didn`t discuss. We did
discuss the wall, we didn`t discuss payment of the wall. That`ll be for a
later date. This was a very preliminary meeting.


HAYES: Crucially, that is not what the other person in the meeting says,
Pena Nieto, in a tweet a short time ago, quote, at the start of my
conversation with Donald Trump, I made it clear that Mexico will not pay
for the wall. Either way, Trump didn`t extract that big check, fact seized
on by the Clinton campaign. Donald Trump has made outlandish policy
forcing Mexico to pay for his giant wall, the centerpiece of his campaign,
said Hillary for America Chair John Podesta. But at the first opportunity
to make good on his offensive campaign promises, Trump choked. After Pena
Nieto challenged Trump`s account, Podesta added, quote, it turns out Trump
didn`t just choke, he got beat in the room and lied about it. Speaking in
Cincinnati before Trump`s appearance in Mexico, Clinton contrasted her work
as Secretary of State with Trump`s hastily arranged trip.


CLINTON: People have to know that they can count on you, that you won`t
say one thing one day and something totally different the next. And it
certainly takes more than trying to make up for a year of insults and
insinuations by dropping in on our neighbors for a few hours and then
flying home again. That is not how it works.


HAYES: NBC`s Hallie Jackson`s covering the Trump campaign joins me live
from Phoenix where he will be speaking tonight. Well, Hallie, I think the
general consensus after it was, OK, well, that didn`t go terribly, sort of
all worked out.


HAYES: Now you have the foreign head of state essentially calling trump a
liar. Has the Trump campaign responded?

JACKSON: So the Trump campaign came out with a statement regarding this
issue of the payment of the wall and Pena Nieto saying that he wouldn`t pay
Trump, obviously as you talked about making that a central tenet of his
whole wall building process in the first place. To the campaign, it`s a
disagreement between these two. And when Trump went down there, according
to a communications advisor, David Miller, who released the statement, it
is unsurprising that this disagreement happened because this was not a
negotiation. They`re saying that a negotiation would have been
inappropriate. This is a conversation that will continue, according to the
campaign. Here`s the real question, Chris. So first of all, did they talk
about it or not, and you`re hearing two different things from the two
people who were in the room at the time, right? The other question is, how
does Trump reconcile that tonight, right? In his first public remarks at
this rally, and you can see the room is filling up. And let`s be clear.
It is a rally. This is not, like, a formal policy speech that we`ve seen
from Trump in the past. This is what I would see on any other night at
7:00 pm talking to you in one of these –

HAYES: Right.

JACKSON: – (INAUDIBLE). The question is does he talk about having Mexico
pay for the wall after today, the Mexican president reiterating that he`s
not going to be paying for the wall? That`s the central question mark that
I think we have to figure out. How does he reconcile that? How does he
reconcile that very diplomatic tone that he struck with the very fiery tone
that we often see on the campaign trail. Here tonight, by the way, just to
pick off a couple of notable names, Governor Jan Brewer, we spotted her
walking around, Sherriff Joe Arpaio also here, unsurprising as he often
appears with Trump on the campaign trail. So folks getting ready for what,
again, has been billed as this big speech, a really high-stakes night for
Donald Trump.

HAYES: All right, Hallie Jackson, thank you.

Joining me now, Representative Black Farenthold of Texas, Republican who
supports Donald Trump, Representative Joaquin Castro, also of Texas, who
supports Hillary Clinton. Congressman Farenthold, let me begin with you.
Since the wall – the wall – has become such a centerpiece, the Trump
campaign has reiterated that it will be a physical and impenetrable barrier
that will be the duration of the border of the United States. You
represent folks along the border. Is that a good idea? Is that a feasible

REP. BLAKE FARENTHOLD (R), TEXAS: Well, listen, I think everybody agrees
that we need to secure the border, and –

HAYES: No, no, but the wall is specific –

FARENTHOLD: – a wall is one way to do it.

HAYES: So you think there will be a – you think it`s a good idea to build
a physical and impenetrable barrier, the duration of the border between the
two countries?

FARENTHOLD: I`m not going to dodge your question. I`m going to say we
need to secure the border. And in some places we need a wall. In some
places – and Donald Trump has said this – there`s a geographic physical
barrier where there won`t be a wall.

HAYES: So you think there`s going to be – if he`s elected, you think
there`s going to be a 35 foot impenetrable wall the duration of the border.
And will Mexico pay for it?

FARENTHOLD: Again, I think we need to get the border secure. How it`s
done, I don`t particularly care. My constituents don`t particularly care.

HAYES: Well, he cares. He`s running on a wall.

FARENTHOLD: The issue is securing the border.

HAYES: He`s running on a wall.

FARENTHOLD: And if he`s able to do that and that`s the way to secure the
border, let`s do it.

HAYES: Congressman Castro, what do you make of this back and forth of Pena
Nieto about who – I mean, first of all, it`s like we are talking about,
you know, this sort of fictional reality as if it were real, like who will
pay for this wall that isn`t going to get built.


HAYES: What do you make of this exchange?

CASTRO: Well, I thought that the visit was a colossal failure on the part
of Donald Trump. I think also, Chris, you witnessed today one of the
greatest acts of political cowardice that we`ve seen in quite some time.
You think about it, Donald Trump has built a big part of his campaign, the
main part of his campaign, on stoking fear and resentment. And his main
argument is that he`s going to make Mexico pay for a border wall. And then
he goes to Mexico, sits in front of their president, and doesn`t have the
courage to even bring up the idea of Mexico paying for that wall. You
know, it`s like –


CASTRO: – somebody in school that says, when I see this guy at the end of
the day, I`m going to beat him up. And then they see the person and they
don`t say a word. It`s just an incredibly cowardly act for somebody who`s
been talking big for a long time and also at the expense of Hispanic-
Americans. You know, there was a Hispanic man, a homeless man, in Boston
that was beaten up, there was a Hispanic man in San Diego who had all these
ugly racial and ethnic epithets shouted at him, students that had been
shouted down, called beaners and wetbacks at volleyball games and
basketball games across the country in high schools. You know, so he`s
really created this climate of fear and anger towards Hispanics, and then
he goes there today and does this.

HAYES: Congressman, do you think he choked? Do you think it was cowardly
for him not to raise this principal issue, which I note is one of only
seven policy positions on his website?

CASTRO: Yes, I do.

FARENTHOLD: I don`t. I think –

HAYES: Congressman Farenthold. Sorry.

FARENTHOLD: Yes. I don`t think it was at all. When you start a
negotiation, you don`t go – ask anybody in sales. You develop the
relationship first, and that`s what Donald Trump is doing. Hillary Clinton
doesn`t have the courage to go and talk to the president of Mexico –

HAYES: You don`t think she`s talked –

FARENTHOLD: – because she knows she`ll have to –

HAYES: – to the president of Mexico?

FARENTHOLD: – get out in front of the press and answer questions.

HAYES: Do you think Hillary Clinton has not talked to the president of

FARENTHOLD: She was invited. Donald Trump went, she hadn`t gone.

HAYES: She has talked to the president of Mexico. She was the Secretary
of State of the United States.

FARENTHOLD: I`m sure she has in the past.

HAYES: Right.

FARENTHOLD: But the point is –

HAYES: So let me ask you this, Congressman –

FARENTHOLD: – she didn`t take this opportunity to go because she would
have had to answer questions from the press and she`s afraid to get in
front of a camera because she doesn`t want to answer questions about the
Clinton Foundation and all the other –

HAYES: Congressman –

FARENTHOLD: – corruption associated with her.

HAYES: Yes. Congressman, the Donald Trump plan to get Mexico to pay for
the wall says they can get Mexico to pay for the wall in three days. Does
that sound like the right time frame for you, three days?

FARENTHOLD: Again, I don`t have Donald Trump`s negotiating skills. If he
thinks he can do it –

HAYES: You think he can do it in three days –

FARENTHOLD: – I`m going to take him at his word.

HAYES: – particularly given what happened with Pena Nieto today?

FARENTHOLD: Listen, I don`t think it`s going to be as easy. But again,
the fact of the matter is the people want the border secure. And Donald
Trump is talking about –

HAYES: What is –

FARENTHOLD: –securing the border. We don`t hear Hillary Clinton talking
about securing the border. She wants –

HAYES: Will you give me a –

FARENTHOLD: – to continue Obama`s open border policies.

HAYES: Can you give me a definition of a secure border?

FARENTHOLD: Sure. When people aren`t getting across in drones –

HAYES: Zero people?

FARENTHOLD: – like they are now.


FARENTHOLD: When we`re catching almost everybody who comes across, that`s
the definition of a secure border.

HAYES: We`re at a 15-year low on apprehensions. What would be the number?
Is it zero crossings?

FARENTHOLD: I don`t think you`ll ever get to zero, but I think you`ll get
down to –

HAYES: What`s the number?

FARENTHOLD: – we`re catching 95 to 99 percent.

HAYES: Congressman Castro, do you feel the border is insecure?

CASTRO: I believe and I know that we commit more resources to the border
today than we ever have in American history. If you look at the numbers in
the 1990`s, at one point there were about 1.4 million people coming across.
Now it`s down to about 330,000. So we doubled the number of border patrol
agents that we had since 2004 when President Bush was in office. Yes. So
the fact is, Hillary Clinton has talked about securing the border, but
she`s not going to get into all of this hysteria and all of the fear and
resentment that Donald Trump has tried to create among the American people.

HAYES: Yes. Let me just say as a final note that the Comprehensive
Immigration Reform bill that was passed by the Senate and killed by
Congressman Farenthold and his colleagues in the House, you can like it or
not like it, it`s not an open borders bill, I think it`s fair to say.
Representatives Blake Farenthold and Joaquin Castro, Texas. Gentlemen,
thank you both for your time tonight. Appreciate it.

Joining me now, former CBS Evening News anchor Dan Rather, managing editor
and anchor of Dan Rather Reports on Access TV. Have you ever seen anything
quite like what we saw today down in Mexico?

of feel like we`ve been parachuted into the Theatre of the Absurd. I don`t
understand what happened today. Over the years, I`ve attended a lot of
meetings between the president of the United States and the president of
foreign powers. I do not recall any such meeting in which the two
principals came out and told directly opposite stories –

HAYES: Immediately.

RATHER: – contradicting stories immediately after the (INAUDIBLE). I
don`t profess to understand this. I will say this about Donald Trump. We
need to understand – and I think a lot of people do understand – that his
strategy for winning the election, the core of it is to dominate every news
cycle. And here again today, as quaky, as really mondo bizarro as this
whole situation has been, once again Donald Trump is dominating –


RATHER: – the headlines and television coverage. Hillary Clinton today -
- and I`m not praising her for it – but Hillary Clinton today made a
statement about defense of the United States, which (INAUDIBLE) required of
the military. At least an attempt to deal with a serious and important
subject. But Donald Trump – and give him credit, if that`s the word –
he`s succeeded once again. He dominates any media landscape on any day and
he`s done it again today, and that may be to his advantage.

HAYES: I think that`s his greatest skill. And I think sometimes it`s been
to an advantage and sometime it`s been to his disadvantage. And, you know,
when he was dominating the media on calling an American judge, you know,
unfit to judge him because he`s Hispanic.

RATHER: Well, exactly. And I think it`s a fair analysis to say that he`s
very seldom called to account –

HAYES: Mm-hmm.

RATHER: – when one story doesn`t match the other story. Look –

HAYES: Or he moves on.

RATHER: – we weren`t in the room. The American people will get to decide
whom they think is telling the truth out of this meeting. The Mexican
president says, I made it very clear we`re not going to pay for the wall.
Donald Trump says, we didn`t discuss –

HAYES: Right.

RATHER: – or mention the wall. People can make up their own mind of whom
they think is more likely to be telling the truth.

HAYES: There has been in the past – I mean, I was trying to think of an
analog today in terms of the setting here. I mean, you can imagine the
political reception domestically if President Obama were to meet with a
foreign candidate – not a head of state, a candidate – who had made
central to their campaign whether it was they were running for office in
Mexico or they`re running in France, that the Americans are terrible, that
they`re fundamentally untrustworthy, that they`re sending rapists and
murderers or warmongers or killers – I mean, I know American politics and
you know it as well as anyone, you can imagine what the reception would be.

RATHER: Well, exactly. And that`s part of the many things I don`t
understand about this meeting. This looked like a lose-lose situation for
both the Mexican president –

HAYES: Right.

RATHER: – and Donald Trump, particularly if Donald Trump was going to
walk into the room and say, let me tell you one thing, (INAUDIBLE) –

HAYES: Right.

RATHER: – you`re going to build the wall –

HAYES: And you`re going to pay for it.

RATHER: – and you`re going to pay for it.

HAYES: Yes, it doesn`t look like that happened, although who knows, maybe
Pena Nieto`s wrong. It is interesting to me that, you know, when Barack
Obama took that trip in 2008 abroad on the campaign trail, it was kind of a
bold stroke.

RATHER: Right.

HAYES: And meant to sort of show people that he could be, you know,
commander in chief. And –

RATHER: Right.

HAYES: – John McCain also traveled abroad. He actually traveled to
Mexico in 2012. Of course, he was sitting Senator. Mitt Romney traveled
abroad in – sorry, in 2012. Do you think this is now an institution of
the American campaign?

RATHER: That`s a very good question. It`s becoming an institution to do
it. And obviously one of the reasons Donald Trump went to Mexico today,
he`s meeting with a foreign power, looking presidential –

HAYES: Right.

RATHER: – if you will. And you make a good point. In recent years,
there`s been an effort to kind of institutionalize it. And guessing in the
future, my guess is that future candidates are going to want to do the same
thing. But depending on how this turns out for Donald Trump –

HAYES: That`s exactly right.

RATHER: – it may not turn out all that well for him and it may give a
future candidate a little pause in saying, you know what, maybe I better
check my whole cards and not go.

HAYES: There are huge risks involved. Of course, Dan Rather, a pleasure
for your time. Thank you very much.

RATHER: Thank you, Chris. Always.

HAYES: Still to come, before hearing Donald Trump`s major immigration
address – that`s tonight, you`re not going to go anywhere – we thought it
would be helpful to do a pre-fact check of some of his more common
immigration claims. That is coming up. But first, after insulting the
nation for his entire campaign, look how the people of Mexico received the
Republican nominee today. That`s right after this two-minute break.


HAYES: Perhaps this New York Times headline summed up the announcement of
today`s meeting between Donald Trump and president Enrique Pena Nieto of
Mexico: Donald Trump to visit Mexico after more than a year of mocking it.
Trump has made blaming Mexico for problems facing the U.S. one of the
cornerstones of his candidacy. And his cascade of insults to the Mexican
government, its court system and people, have not gone unnoticed in Mexico.
Today the Mexican president came, though in a somewhat muted fashion, to
the defense of his country`s citizens.


ENRIQUE PENA NIETO, PRESIDENT OF MEXICO (through translator): The Mexicans
in the United States are honest people and hardworking. They are well-
intentioned people. They are good people who respect the institution of
the family and community life and who respect the law.


HAYES: Trump is an almost universally reviled figure in Mexico as seen in
the ubiquitous Trump pinatas for sale, which is one reason why his meeting
with Pena Nieto was so puzzling. Joining me now is Francisco Goldman, a
contributor to The New Yorker, author of The Interior Circuit: A Mexico
City Chronicle. And Francisco, let`s start with this. I mean, you know if
you travel as an American during campaign season, wherever you go people
are tuned into the American political scene. How closely have Mexican
media and Mexicans been following this campaign?

fairly closely, but not as closely as you would think. Basically, once
they realized Trump is the villain, Trump insulted Mexico, Trump is
obviously, you know, been running on a campaign that Mexicans interpret as
a racist and xenophobic and ultra-nationalist and even fascistic – it`s a
word that`s often used here – a campaign attacking Mexico and scapegoating
Mexico. And that`s about where it ends, really. And of course a lot of it
is turning him, in the very much Mexican way, into a figure of bula, a
figure of making fun of Trump, of almost, you know, reveling in your almost
joyous detestation –


GOLDMAN: – of what he represents. And a lot of comedy. I don`t think
people – when it was first announced that Trump was even coming here, the
first reaction was kind of astonishment. But it shouldn`t be confused
with, you know, the way Mexicans might react to something they take much
more seriously.


GOLDMAN: Such as the drug war.

HAYES: My sense in terms of what I`ve been sort of consuming in terms of
Mexican culture, particularly on Trump, this idea, this kind of, like –
both a villain but also sort of object of ridicule, almost sort of
unanimously in a country that is incredibly politically divided at this
moment. This kind of figure of sort of –


HAYES: – universal revulsion and mocking.

GOLDMAN: That`s right. And, Chris, the country may be politically
divided, but I would say don`t forget that this president, Enrique Pena
Nieto, has the lowest approval ratings in this country in modern times and
is equally a figure of fun and –

HAYES: Right.

GOLDMAN: – mockery at this point than if – you know, so it was really a
– like, to me from this morning when I first began to follow it, like a
train wreck waiting to happen. And certainly I think we`re going to have a
world, you know, the Mexican record in mocking, hilarious memes that`s
coming over the next 24 hours without a doubt, you know.

HAYES: Well, it seemed to me in terms of monitoring just watching Mexicans
on Twitter last night just reacting to the news, this was incredibly –


HAYES: – high risk low reward for Pena Nieto, which is to say, you know,
people feel insulted, they feel that he has to stand up for the honor of
Mexico and its people and the integrity of its governments and its courts
and everything. And anything less than a sort of reading him the riot act
would be seen as essentially surrender. And it`s hard or me –


HAYES: – to think that the meeting is going to help him politically at
all domestically. Maybe I`m wrong. What do you think?

GOLDMAN: No. The meeting, the way it played out, has destroyed him, as my
taxi driver on the way over here said. I saw my taxi driver go through all
the stages of rage and resignation and finally a kind of fierce Mexican
glee that that`s it, he will never recover from this. This is the noose
around his neck and (INAUDIBLE) neck and they`re finally going to be gone
because this is – when we thought that you couldn`t go any lower, they
finally hit bottom. I think that there was a lot of that kind of
anticipatory mocking earlier. There was some very serious, important
statements from very heavyweight Mexican intellectual and political
authorities in the morning. I saw the person who had the longest term as
Mexico`s ambassador to the U.S. saying, you know, what a political, moral
mistake this is. You`re legitimizing that kind of racist statements and
xenophobic statements that Trump had uttered even by inviting him here and
granting him this sort of –


GOLDMAN: – courtesy. So I think it was Enrique (INAUDIBLE), a
conservative intellectual denouncing it in similar ways saying you don`t
invite somebody you`ve compared to Hitler, as Pena Nieto had earlier, you
know, into your house in this way. I saw someone else calling it the
gravest Mexican diplomatic error in history. I myself watching this
morning thought, he must have something up his sleeve. He must be setting
a kind of trap. His approval ratings are so low, he`s so denigrated, he`s
so disliked. I thought, he`s obviously going to try and recapture some
kind of, you know, popularity here by really publicly standing up to Trump.
That must be the agenda, but no –


GOLDMAN: – that didn`t happen.

HAYES: All right. Francisco Goldman, always a pleasure to hear from you
from Mexico. Thank you very much for joining us. Appreciate it. Coming
up, Hillary Clinton`s pitch to Republicans looking for a Trump alternative.
Former Governor Jennifer Granholm joins me to discuss. That`s just ahead.



CLINTON: I know we can`t cozy up to dictators. We have to stand up to
them. We can`t contain ISIS. We must defeat them, and we will.


HAYES: In her speech to the American Legion today, Hillary Clinton issued
a fairly standard line used by Americans heads of state that we shouldn`t
cozy up to dictators. It`s a maxim often ignored by those American heads
of state when it comes to certain dictators who are American allies. As
Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton herself said with regard to Hosni
Mumbarak who kept an iron grip on Egypt for nearly 30 years before his
ousting in 2011, quote, I really consider President and Mrs. Mumbarak to be
friends of my family, so I hope to see them often here in Egypt and in the
U.S. U.S. government has also been a steadfast ally to the un-democratic
and oppressive regime of Saudi Arabia. And not just an ally, the U.S. has
been supplying arms to the Saudis at record levels. Since 2010, the Obama
administration authorized a record 60 billion dollars in U.S. military
sales to Saudi Arabia, arms that had then been used to wage an air war in
the country of Yemen indiscriminately targeting civilians. According to
the United Nations, the Saudi-led military coalition in Yemen was
responsible for some 60 percent of the 1,953 child deaths and injuries
there during the past year. Human Rights Watch pointing out that aerial
strikes had hit schools, hospitals, markets and homes, and that includes
areas specifically designated off-limits. According to the New York Times,
the United States included a bridge on a no strike list of vital
infrastructure explicitly informing the Saudis that it was critical to
responding to the humanitarian crises in Yemen. And yet the Saudi-led
coalition obliterated the structure. The air strikes have been going on
for over a year with basically no domestic political outcry. But finally
members of congress are speaking up about the ghastly moral abomination
that is the Saudi war on Yemen. Sixty-four legislators signed a bipartisan
letter asking the Obama Administration to halt the sale of more than a
billion dollars worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia. The letter, noting that
in June, 204 House members voted to block the transfer of cluster bombs to
Saudi Arabia after reports of their use in civilian areas in Yemen. It was
not enough to stop the transfer. America is the largest arms exporter in
the world, just one of the many ways we`re an exceptional nation. What
Hillary Clinton said about her foreign policy position today, including her
version of American exceptionalism next.


HAYES: Today, Hillary Clinton delivered a speech that in many respects
could have been delivered by a Republican, even a neo-conservative. For
instance, this line about leadership.


CLINTON: The United States is an exceptional nation. I believe we are
still Lincoln`s last, best hope of Earth. We`re still Reagan`s shining
city on a hill. We`re still Robert Kennedy`s great, unselfish,
compassionate country.


HAYES: Now, there was a line Clinton uttered about what happens if
America`s allows a leadership vacuum.


CLINTON: Because when America fails to lead, we leave a vacuum that either
causes chaos or other countries or networks rush in to fill the void.


HAYES: If that language sounded familiar, here`s what Republican Senator
Marco Rubio said at the Ronald Reagan dinner in October 2014.


SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) FLORIDA: So from a national security perspective,
the absence of
America leadership leaves a vacuum that leads to chaos, and we`re seeing it
play out in every region of this planet.


HAYES: Clinton`s calls for American leadership have already brought a long
line of ndorsements from Republican security officials from past

Today, the campaign added another one, James Clad, former deputy assistant
secretary under President George W. Bush.

Joining me now, Jennifer Granholm, former governor of Michigan and co-chair
of Hillary Clinton`s transition team.

To those who are wary in the Democratic Party in the center-left or across
the political spectrum about how Hillary Clinton approaches the projection
of American forces and the use of military force, what can you say to
reassure them in the wake of rhetoric that sounds very much like some of
the most sort of hawkish voices in American public discourse, endorsements
from a lot of those folks and a record of supporting a fair amount of
military intervention?

Chris. One is this: Hillary Clinton is giving Democrats an ability to be
patriotic. I say this as an immigrant to this country. And whether your
people were brought here by the Amistad or whether they flew here in
American Airlines or came across the Arizona border, our diversity if our
American exceptionalism and she referred to the diversity of the military.
But that – it allows Democrats to define American exceptionalism our way,
our convention, where we were all waving the American flag. It`s been hard
as a Democrat to see Republicans embrace that and sort of take it from us.

Now Democrats are saying, we are exceptional, and we`re going to define it
our way. And that means we`re going to define it our way in terms of what
makes this country great, in terms of how we project ourselves across the

She talked about how important it was when we went in to get Osama bin
Laden, that we didn`t
just wipe out his family, that we, because of our values and who we are,
got them out of there safely.

Our projection across the world is not just us leading, it is us pulling
people along together.

So for Democrats to be proud of being patriotic, to be proud of being
American, it`s a big gift
to us as a party.

HAYES: Well, I mean, look, I think most people in American politics in the
highest reaches and most people who run for president think America is an
exceptional nation. I think that – if you polled members of congress,
that`s a consensus view. It`s a view I think most Americans probably
share. I think the definition of that could be a little bit difficult to
pin down, frankly, but on this question of leadership, I mean, what struck
me about sort of putting the Hillary Clinton and the Marco Rubio thoughts
together, those sound bites together was, that has been a call from critics
of this president, that American – America has not led under President

And I can`t tell if this rhetoric from Hillary Clinton ismeant to sort of
subtly distance herself from some of the aggressive restraint, to use a
phrase, that the president has sort of promulgated as president.

GRANHOLM: I don`t think she`s distancing from him at all. I think she`s
helping to explain
and say where she`s going to take it to the next level.

I mean her definition of American exceptionalism, it`s not just that we are
the biggest economy or that we`re the most powerful military, or, you know,
any of that – or that we`ve got the most robust GDP, it is because we use
our assets to benefit the world. It is because we are not shrinking in the
face of what are global threats, that we are linking arms with other
countries and using all of those great things about us to be able to make
the world a better place.

Progressives should feel really good about that.

HAYES: All right. Jennifer Granholm, thank you for your time tonight.
Appreciate it.

GRANHOLM: You bet.

HAYES: Coming up, previewing Trump`s immigration speech and the stark
contrast to Clinton`s policies. And tonight`s Thing one, Thing two is also
coming up next.


HAYES: Thing One tonight, we`re approaching that time of year where your
TV gets inundated
with political ads, from political campaigns down to state races. For
instance, Iowans may start seeing this ad from Republican candidate Waylon
Brown who is running for state senate, which he`s shown talking and
listening to Iowa voters, including these kids at school with their

But what`s weird about this interaction is that another Iowa candidate
spoke to the same teacher and those same kids, and so did these other guys.
Why are all these candidates meeting with the same kids? That`s Thing 2 in
60 seconds.


HAYES: We`ve covered on this show the delightfully amusing micros-genre of
political campaigns using or misusing stock footage in their ads. But now
it appears the Iowa GOP has gone a step further. As the political news
site Iowa Starting Line pointed out today, all GOP state senate candidates
have the same kids in their ads. And so it looks like all these candidates
embarked on the same listening tour of the same hallway, in the same
school, with the same kids.

The Iowa Republican Party apparently scheduled the day of film shoots to
save time and money and then just swapped their candidates into the frame.
Most likely voters won`t notice, except, as Iowa Starting Line notes,
nearly all of these candidates are in the same media market.

So if any of these ads run do happen to run back to back, it might look a
bit awkward.


HAYES: We`ve all spent the last few weeks tying ourselves into knots,
trying to figure out
exactly what Donald Trump`s immigration policy is. While Hillary Clinton`s
policy, whether you agree with it or not, has been clearly laid out in
speeches and on her website, Clinton says she`ll introduce comprehensive
immigration legislation which would include a path way to citizenship.

She would defend President Obama`s executive actions on the issue. Make it
easier for people to become naturalized citizens and change current
detention policies.

Joining me now, Lorella Praeli, national Latino vote director for Hillary
for America.

Lorella, do you feel like – what do you make of the last few weeks of
Donald Trump`s immigration policy trajectory as he heads into the speech
tonight? Can you hear me there, Lorella?


HAYES: Hey, sorry.

So what do you make of these last few weeks of Donald Trump on immigration
as he heads into
the speech tonight?

PRAELI: I think that nothing has changed. I mean, what we`ve seen Donald
Trump and
his campaign try to do over the last few weeks is distract people from his
dangerous policies. I mean, he went to Mexico today with that intention,
to distract us and to change headlines. And what we know out of what has
happened is that in his signature policy issue, which is to build a
concrete giant wall along the southern border, he went into a room, got
beat, and then lied about it.

And so what we know today is who Donald Trump has been from day one of his
campaign, Chris. He is for massive deportation. He is for putting
DREAMers on a path to deportation, he is for
banning entrance of a full religion into our country, 1.5 billion people.

And so this is Donald Trump being Donald Trump. And I guess for me, for my
own personal experience and the way I approach this work, I think the
damage has already been done. There`s nothing that Donald Trump can say
today or in the next 70 days to undo the damage that he`s done throughout
the last 14 months of his campaign.

HAYES: What do you say to people who say, look, what if he ends up in this
position, which he sort of seems to flirt with is – we`re going to
prioritize people with criminal convictions for deportation, which is not
that different from what President Obama has done. Of course President
Obama has – there have been record deportations under President Obama, and
tries to essentially
move closer to the Hillary Clinton position?

PRAELI: I don`t buy it, Chris. When you have someone that`s spent the
last 14 months and
launched his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists and criminals and then
has used every opportunity that he has had to talk about this issue, to
criminalize and demonize people like my sister, people like my mother,
people who I know and grew up with, when he has used every moment to do
that, I just don`t believe it.

He could say he`s for passing immigration reform tonight in Arizona and I
wouldn`t buy it. We have 14 months of his rhetoric. The damage has
already been done. The dangerous policies could
happen if he`s president. And so I say we`re not buying it, the American
people are not buying it, Latino voters are not buying it, and we`re ready
to go out and fight back.

HAYES: All right, Lorella Praeli, thank you for your time tonight.
Appreciate it.

As we await Trump`s big immigration speech, we have some important fact-
checking of his more frequent claims on immigration. That`s coming up
after this break.

But first, and this is important, my kids are here tonight, visiting the
studio. So loyal viewers know what that means, it`s time for their animal
video requests. My daughter Ryan asked for a video
of an elephant. So, here is an elephant at the Dallas Zoo, moving a 500-
pound log around her habitat using her trunk. My son David has asked for a
video of a rhinoceros.

So, here`s a black rhino just kind of hanging out in the St. Louis Zoo, not
really doing any heavy lifting, just sort of strolling.

We`re All In when we come back.


HAYES: We are just minutes away from Donald Trump`s big immigration speech
in Phoenix, Arizona. For the past 14 months, Trump has built his
presidential brand on fear mongering over the issue, I think it`s safe to
say. Describing our southern border as being overrun by undocumented
immigrants with people pouring into the country and only a wall paid for by
Mexico can possibly stop all the chaos.


TRUMP: Do you remember when I ran, when I announced, I talked about
illegal immigration. I talked about people pouring in to our country. And
just look at the record numbers of people right now that are pouring across
the borders of this country.

The border is a disaster, Bill. People are pouring in and I mean illegal
people, illegal immigrants, and they`re pouring in.

Our country is out of control. People are pouring across the southern
border. I will build a wall. It will be a great wall. People will not
come in unless they come in legally.


HAYES: All right, the reality is that fewer immigrants are entering the
U.S. illegally than
at any time in the recent past. According to The Washington Post, evidence
is emerging illegal immigration flows have fallen to their lowest level in
at least two decades. The Pew Research Center estimating that after years
of steady increases, the population of undocumented immigrants in this
country has leveled off.

And by the way, there already is a wall. You`re already paying for it, in
fact. NBC News reporting that American taxpayers have spent billions of
dollars on border security, including a 700-mile-long physical barrier
along the southern border with Mexico. Border security spending has , get
this, increased 1,400 percent over the past 15 years and all that security
has made it more difficult for people to actually cross the border.

Apprehensions at the border are at a 15-year low. And those are just a few
of the many examples of how Trump`s rhetoric on immigration is at odds with
reality. Joining me now with fact check some of Trump`s assertions on
immigration are Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton who joins from outside the Trump
event in Phoenix, and Javier Palamarez, president and CEO of U.S. Hispanic
Chamber of Congress.

And Mayor Stanton, let me start with you outside that venue there. I mean,
one of the big themes for Donald Trump is that Mexico represents
essentially a kind of hostile power, a rival, an enemy. Is that your view
from where you stand as the mayor of Phoenix, very close to that border?

GREG STANTON, MAYOR OF PHOENIX, ARIZONA: Just the opposite. Phoenix is
lucky to be close to Mexico and our southern border. As you know, Mexico
has a fast-growing economy. Right now, there the 12th or 13th largest
economy on Planet Earth, soon to be growing to the fifth or sixth largest
over the next 20 years. They have a growing Middle Class. That`s a great
opportunity for
trade for our local companies.

We have over 90,000 jobs here in our region that are directly tied to trade
with Mexico. So I don`t want to build walls with Mexico, I want to build
economic bridges with Mexico, and having greater economic ties with Mexico
is nothing but a great thing for our local economy here in Phoenix, and

So I think Donald Trump has it all wrong in how he`s perceived our
relationship with Mexico.

HAYES: Javier, let me ask you – let me ask you this, because you`ve had
the experience of a meeting with Donald Trump on immigration like Pena
Nieto just went through, about almost exactly a year ago.

How are you viewing what happened today through that prism?

surprised at all that the private Donald Trump is quite different from the
public Donald Trump.

As you know, we met almost a year to the day for the first time after I had
just spoken to
Donald Trump. He was very courteous to me and then doubled down in his
hate-filled rhetoric. The reality of it is, this man has predicated his
entire campaign on two things: building a wall and the fact that Mexico
would pay for that wall. He has built this movement of hate and now he`s
having to try to
figure out how do I do exactly what Javier Palomarez warned me I should do,
is start to court the Hispanic vote in America.

HAYES: Mayor, one of the other things that Donald Trump really stresses is
to focus on immigrants as a kind of distinct criminal threat. That he
will take individual cases of unauthorized immigrants committing a felony
or violent crimes, talks about that constantly. Obviously, you have a
large undocumented population there in Phoenix. Is that how the reality
plays out on the ground in Phoenix?

STANTON: No, it`s not. In fact, no city in the United States of America
would benefit more from comprehensive immigration reform than Phoenix,
Arizona. That`s why our two senators, Senator McCain and Senator Flake, in
a bipartisan way, supported tough but fair comprehensive immigration
reform. We`ve got to get people out of the shadows and fully involved in
our economy. It would be great for our local economy. So instead of
telling disaster stories or trying to scare people, we need to deal with it
in a mature way and tell it accurate information.

That immigration reform, comprehensive immigration reform, will be great
for the American
economy, certainly great for my city.

HAYES: The big question here, and this is the thing that everyone is
looking to see, is where
he ends up on the question, the hardest question. 11 million people who
live here, what do you do with those folks. How have you reacted to them
essentially try to avoid the question?

PALOMEREZ: Well, I want to just say, Chris, that I could not agree more
with Mayor Stanton. He`s absolutely dead on. We need to stay focused on
the fact that as we stand today, Mexico represents close to $600 billion of
bilateral trade with America. I agree with him, I agree with my dear
friend John McCain, I agree with my good friend Jeff Flake. All of us are
in agreement that Mexico is an important trade partner with the United
States, more than six million American jobs depend on that bilateral trade.

Nothing could be further from the truth, this myth – in fact,it`s not even
a myth, it`s a lie that Donald Trump has perpetrated that says that there`s
this is tsunami of Mexicans coming across the border, taking our wives, and
our children, and our jobs. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce collaborated on a joint
study with the George W. Bush Institute and that study found as recently as
2010, that net migration between the United States and Mexico, which is a
look at the number of people leaving the U.S. going to Mexico
and leaving Mexico and coming to the U.S. was practically zero.

For a five-year period of time, nations of this size, it was less than
20,000 people. And in fact, it was 20,000 more people leaving America
going to Mexico than leaving Mexico coming to America.

It is an absolute lie. It`s subterfuge. It is something that he has
created, and perpetrated, and continued to propagate to build this movement
of hatred.

HAYES: Yeah. And quickly, mayor, that wall is never going to get built,
is it?

STANTON: Well, I know there`s this debate about whether or not – you
know, who said they`re going to pay for the wall, or whether Mexico is
going to pay for the wall. The wall shouldn`t be built. The wall would be
a very dumb thing to build. We want to build bridges, economic bridges,
bridges of friendship of support with Mexico. We don`t want to build a
wall. That would be very dumb. We could be smart about this. And we don`t
want to engage in public policy that is self defeating for our local
economy. The wall is a bad idea.

HAYES: As Benjamin Conkol (ph), the writer, said today it`s a heck of a
joke for a guy to fly in a private jet between two neighboring countries
twice in one day in order to promote a wall between those two countries.

Javier Palomerez, Mayor Greg Stanton, thank you very much.

And that is ALL IN for this evening.


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