All In With Chris Hayes, Transcript, 7/7/2016

Guests:
Wesley Lowery, DeRay McKesson, Maya Wiley, Michael Burgess, Ben Domenech, Maya Wiley, Joan Walsh, Catherine Rampell
Transcript:

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES

Date: July 7, 2016

Guest: Wesley Lowery, DeRay McKesson, Maya Wiley, Michael Burgess, Ben 

Domenech, Maya Wiley, Joan Walsh, Catherine Rampell 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over):  Tonight on ALL IN –  

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  This is not just a black 

issue.  It`s not just a Hispanic issue.  This is an American issue.  

HAYES:  President Obama addresses the nation in the wake of two police 

shootings.  

OBAMA:  What if this happened to somebody in your family?  

HAYES:  Tonight as protests grow, the president`s extraordinary call for 

change.  

Then – 

REPORTER:  Was it tense?  How would you characterize it?  

SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA:  Yes, it was tense.  

HAYES:  Donald Trump`s Senate smack-down.  Eleven days from Cleveland, 

tense times for Trump as convention coup talk swirls and Ted Cruz makes a 

move.  

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS:  Donald asked me to speak at the Republican 

convention, and I told him I`d be happy to do so.  

HAYES:  And frustrated Republicans search for answers from the FBI.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  As a non-lawyer, as a non-investigator, it would appear 

to me you have got a hell of a case.  

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR:  And I`m telling you we don`t and I hope people 

take the time to understand why.  

HAYES:  The Clinton industrial scandal rolls on when ALL IN starts right 

now.  

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HAYES:  Good evening from New York.  I`m Chris Hayes.  

For the second time in two days, a police killing of a black man has 

brought about outrage and a particular kind of horror that comes when 

there`s graphic video of a life lost at the state`s hands.  This time, the 

shooting was in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, and the video in the immediate 

aftermath of the shooting was streamed live on Facebook by the fiancee of 

the dying victim.  

The two shootings prompting President Obama to make extended and 

extraordinary remarks after landing in Warsaw, Poland, for a NATO summit.  

We will bring you those remarks in a moment.

But first, at about 9:00 p.m. yesterday, 32-year-old Philando Castile was 

pulled over for a broken tail light, according to his fiancee, Diamond 

Reynolds, who was a passenger in the car, along with her 4-year-old 

daughter.  The following is a large portion of Reynold`s live stream video 

just moments after the shooting in which she describes what happened.  The 

video is graphic and disturbing.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND REYNOLDS, VICTIM`S FIANCEE:  Stay with me.  We got pulled over for 

a busted tail light in the back and the police just – he`s covered.  He`s 

killed my boyfriend.  He`s licensed – he`s carried – he`s licensed to 

carry.  

He was trying to get out his ID and his wallet out his pocket and he let 

the officer know that he was – he had a firearm and he was reaching for 

his wallet and the officer just shot him in his arm.  We`re waiting for a 

backup.

OFFICER:  Ma`am, keep your hands where they are.

REYNOLDS:  I will, sir, no worries.  I will.

(EXPLETIVE DELETED)

REYNOLDS:  He just shot his arm off.  We got pulled over on Larpenteur.

OFFICER:  I told him not to reach for it!  I told him to get his head up!

REYNOLDS:  He had, you told him to get his ID, sir, his driver`s license.  

Oh my God.  Please don`t tell me he`s dead.  Please don`t tell me my 

boyfriend just went like that.  

OFFICER:  Keep your hands where they are.  

REYNOLDS:  Yes, I`ll keep my hands where they are.  Please don`t tell me 

this, Lord.  Please, Jesus, don`t tell me that he`s done.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES:  Reynolds said it took 15 minutes for paramedics to arrive.  

Philando Castile was taken to Hennepin County Medical Center in 

Minneapolis.  He was declared dead at 9:37. 

Castile worked for the St. Paul public school system, in the nutrition 

services department.  Reynolds said he had just come from getting a hair 

cut for his birthday, which was just about a week away.  Crowds gathered 

almost immediately after the shooting and the live-stream video, and today, 

further protests around the entire nation.  

Today, Diamond Reynolds was released by police and gave a lengthy interview 

posted on Facebook.  Here is a portion of that.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REYNODS:  They took me to jail.  They didn`t give us water.  They took 

everything from me.  They put me in a room and separated me from my child.  

They treated me like a prisoner.  

They treated me like I did this to me.  And I didn`t.  They did this to us.  

They took a black man away.  

We used to be safe here, but the police, the people that are supposed to 

serve and protect us are not serving us and are not protecting us.  They`re 

taking innocent people away from their families.  They`re taking innocent 

people off the streets, and it`s not OK.  It`s not OK.  

Everyone will see that this was a very detrimental situation.  Not only to 

me, not only to her, but everybody in this community.  Everybody in this 

world, not just blacks, not just whites, not just Asians, but everyone.  

This affected everyone.  

Not black lives matter.  All lives matter!  Every single life out here 

matter, no matter the color, the race, the nationality, we all deserve to 

be heard.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES:  The police officer is on paid leave, pending the investigation, 

which is standard procedure.  

Minnesota`s Governor Mark Dayton said he requested the Justice Department 

investigate the case.  The Justice Department said it would monitor the 

state investigation being conducted by Minnesota`s state Bureau of Criminal 

Apprehension.  

The governor was blunt in his assessment of the killing.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MARK DAYTON (D), MINNESOTA:  Would this have happened if those 

passengers, the driver and the passenger were white?  I don`t think it 

would have.  So I`m forced to confront – I think all of us in Minnesota 

are forced to confront.  This – this kind of racism exists.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES:  This comes less than 48 hours after the shooting death of Alton 

Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, a shooting at very close range, which 

immediately prompted a federal investigation.  Also, that shooting caught 

on tape.  

President Obama after arriving in Warsaw today, spoke for over 50 minutes, 

citing statistics about the increased rates in which people of color are 

killed by law enforcement and calling for bipartisan action.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA:  According to various studies, not just one, but a wide range of 

studies that have been carried out over a number of years, African-

Americans are 30 percent more likely than whites to be pulled over.  After 

being pulled over, African-Americans and Hispanics are three times more 

likely to be searched.  

Last year, African Americans were shot by police at more than twice the 

rate of whites.  African Americans are arrested at twice the rate of 

whites.  African-American defendants are 75 percent more likely to be 

charged with offenses, carrying mandatory minimums.  They receive sentences 

that are almost 10 percent longer than comparable whites arrested for the 

same crime, so that if you add it all up, the African American and Hispanic 

population who make up only 30 percent of the general population make up 

more than half of the incarcerated population.  

Now, these are facts.  There`s a big chunk of our fellow citizenry that 

feels as if because of the color of their skin, they are not being treated 

the same.  And that hurts.  And that should trouble all of us.  

This is not just a black issue.  It`s not just a Hispanic issue.  This is 

an American issue that we should all care about.  All fair-minded people 

should be concerned.  

We have extraordinary appreciation and respect for the vast majority of 

police officers who put their lives on the line to protect us every single 

day.  They`ve got a dangerous job.  It is a tough job.  And as I`ve said 

before, they have a right to go home to their families, just like anybody 

else on the job.  And there are going to be circumstances in which they 

have to make split-second decisions, we understand that.

And it`s incumbent on all of us to say, we can do better than this, we are 

better than this.  And to not have it degenerate into the unusual political 

scrum, we should be able to step back, reflect, and ask ourselves, what can 

we do better so that everybody feels as if they`re equal under the law?  

Now the good news is, is that there are practices we can institute that 

will make a difference.  I`m encouraged by the fact that the majority of 

leadership and police departments around the country recognize this, but 

change has been too slow.  We have to have a greater sense of urgency about 

this.  

I`m also encouraged by the way, that we have bipartisan support for 

criminal justice reform, working its way through Congress.  On a regular 

basis, we bring in those who have done heroic work in law enforcement and 

have survived.  Sometimes they`ve been injured, sometimes they risk their 

lives in remarkable ways and we applaud them and appreciate them, and also 

saying that there are problems across our criminal justice system.  There 

are biases, subconscious and unconscious, that have to be rooted out.  

And I would just ask those who question the sincerity or the legitimacy of 

protests and vigils and expressions of outrage who somehow label those 

expressions of outrage as, quote/unquote, “political correctness”.  I just 

ask folks to step back and think, what if this happened to somebody in your 

family?  How would you feel?  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES:  Joining me now, Pulitzer Prize-winning writer and national reporter 

for “The Washington Post”, Wesley Lowery.  His book, “They Can`t Kill Us 

All” comes out this fall, and you`re definitely going to want to read that.  

Wesley, all right, I guess we should start with what happened in Falcon 

Heights, and I think there`s a few things that are striking about this 

particular instance.  One is the presence of a weapon which was apparently 

announced by Mr. Castile at the time of the search.  He was permitted to 

have it.  And two is the just way that video plays a role almost as a kind 

of life raft for Ms. Reynolds in this extremely perilous and dangerous 

situation.  

WESLEY LOWERY, NATIONAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST:  Of course.  That 

Reynolds has now watched her fiance, her boyfriend, be shot by a police 

officer, the gun is still trained on her loved one next to her.  And rather 

than, as we`ve seen time and time again previously, rather than call 911 

and say, can a sergeant come out, can the ambulance come out?  

What she thought in this moment, I need to document this, I need to show 

someone in real time, right, that people will not believe me unless I can 

broadcast that.  The wherewithal to broadcast live was remarkable.  

And I think it speaks to this idea and we`ve seen it whether it`d be in 

this shooting, whether it`d be in Alton Sterling, the night previously, I 

mean, a ton of other shootings, Walter Scott.  This idea that black men and 

women see their stories being validated through videotape, that they`re 

saying, and black men and women have been saying for generations in this 

country, we are treated this way by law enforcement, and people said, no, 

you`re not, you`re making it up.  

And now, video, whether it`d be after someone is killed, whether it`d be 

taken themselves, or they`d be captured in a body camera, has now in dozens 

of cases shown us that there are circumstances, that there are times when 

the police are not being forthcoming about these circumstances and that, 

no, Black Americans, we`re not making this up.  

HAYES:  You have been part of the team that won the Pulitzer, documenting 

statistically deaths at the hands of the police in the United States.  And 

I guess in broad strokes, I imagine, I think the president may have been 

citing your work as he read those statistics today.  What do we know about 

whether the problem is getting better or worse?  

LOWERY:  Well, it is getting worse.  The police this year, in the first six 

months of the year are on pace to kill 6 percent more people, to shoot and 

kill 6 percent more people than last year.  

And so, what we`re seeing here is not a decrease in fatal shootings, 

rather, an increase in fatal shootings.  And that`s coming despite the fact 

that more of these shootings are being caught on camera, right?  So there 

are 30 more shootings this year than at this point last year that have been 

captured on – whether it be a dash cam or a body camera or a bystander 

video.  

And yet, there are 30 more shootings total than there were last year.  So, 

what we know is the amount of fatal police shootings on average, three each 

day of the calendar year, has not in any way been abated.  Rather it 

started to uptick.  

HAYES:  Wes Lowery of “The Washington Post” – that book again is “They 

Can`t Kill Us All,” comes out in November.  

All right.  Joining me is DeRay McKesson, civil rights activist and founder 

of Campaign Zero, a police reform group, and Maya Wiley, chair of the 

civilian complaint review board here in New York City, which oversees the 

New York City police and also former counsel to Mayor de Blasio.  

DeRay, let me start with you.  I have seen a pattern in expressions of 

anguish from people in the last two days.  And also, I have seen a fair 

amount of despair.  Two years ago, Michael Brown was shot in Ferguson.  I 

think that was the start of concerted attention and organizing and a 

movement around police killings, around policing.  

Where are things two years later?  What do you say to people that are 

tempted by despair?  

DERAY MCKESSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST:  So, what we know to be true is that 

these two men should be alive today.  The police officers chose to kill 

them.  They could have made a different choice.  We knew that in 2014 when 

Mike Brown was killed and we`ve known it for so long.  

I think where we are now is that protest is the act of telling the truth in 

public.  People have been using their bodies to tell the truth about the 

trauma that people are facing and also to tell the truth about the fact 

that we can live in a world where the police don`t kill people.  So, what 

we see now is people in the streets highlighting what`s happening, but also 

pressing their legislators for an expanded use of force policy, that makes 

it really clear that deadly force should be used as a last resort, that 

preservation of life should be key.  

You know, Obama, his statement today was important.  But it will be more 

important for him to actually make a federal use of force policy for the 

use of force standards to be included in the Democratic convention 

platform.  That`s what we`re seeing people push for, these concrete things 

that can change.  Change the structure, that will then change culture.  

HAYES:  Maya, you have fascinating experience.  You were general counsel of 

New York city mayor`s office.  You`re now heading up the civilian complaint 

review board.  

How much of this is about training at one end and how much of this is a 

part of a just much broader way of policing that America has arrived at?  

MAYA WILEY, CHAIR, CIVILIAN COMPLAINT REV. BOARD, NYC:  That`s an important 

question.  I should qualify my answer first by saying I`m not quite –  

HAYES:  You haven`t started yet.  Right.

WILEY:  I`m not quite yet the chair, by July 18th.  

Look, I think that we`re seeing today and what we`ve been seeing over the 

past several years is both an awakening of – because of technology, about 

the realities as we`ve heard about what can happen to folks unfairly 

sometimes and to an extreme loss of life and it`s tragic and disgraceful.  

I think we`ve also seen that, and certainly our New York experience, it`s 

critically important whether police departments see themselves as in 

relationship with community or if they see themselves as at odds with 

community.  

I was having a conversation with someone in city hall.  Actually, it was a 

police officer who was a friend of mine.  And one of the things he was 

saying is that under the previous police commissioner, he was punished for 

taking off his gun and playing basketball with kids on his beat.  Punished 

for that.  

Under this current commissioner, that`s actually not something that would 

be punishment behavior.  So, the encouragement of a different set of 

relationships is fundamental.  But it`s also oversight and accountability, 

right?  I mean, New York City has a civilian complaint review board and 

it`s really fundamentally important that there`d be some form of 

accountability and oversight that`s also fair and just.  

HAYES:  And yet, DeRay, what I feel part of the seeds of despair in folks 

that I`ve seen, people that I`ve talked to and people I`ve been in touch 

with over the last 48 hours, in reportorial capacity and the capacity as a 

friend, is the idea of the accountability on the back end, after this has 

happened won`t bring the person back, A, and, B, we`ve already seen time 

and time again, either no indictment or an indictment and then a not guilty 

verdict.  The system just doesn`t seem designed to produce accountability 

on the back end.  

MCKESSON:  Yes, so this is about a broken culture.  And we know that the 

policing in so many cities and so many states, the culture of policing is 

broken.  What happened when you give people the power to take someone`s 

life and they can do it with literally – they can do it with impunity at 

every stance?  

So, we believe that if you change structures and systems that will make a 

police officer accountable, that would change the culture of policing in 

and of itself.  That would discourage people from choosing to kill black 

and brown people across the country.  It would change it on the front end 

too.  And I think that`s a real solution.  I think that`s possible.  

But again, what we`re seeing with the lack of convictions is not the court 

saying they were not involved in the death of these unarmed citizens.  

We`re seeing the court saying their involvement was not criminal.  And that 

shows us there`s a set of laws, policies and practices that simply protect 

the police at all steps for any reason and that just isn`t OK.  

HAYES:  All right. DeRay McKesson and Maya Wiley, it`s a great pleasure to 

have you here.  Thank you very much for coming.  

WILEY:  Thank you for having me.

HAYES:  We`re going to keep an eye on the protests that are happening in at 

least four or five cities around the country tonight, from Atlanta to 

Minneapolis, St. Paul, here in New York, down to Philly.  

There`s a lot of political news to report as well.  So do not go anywhere.  

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES:  That is a live shot of Fifth Avenue here in New York City where 

protesters have been on the move for the past several hours, shutting down 

traffic, one of several cities around the country, including in Minneapolis 

and St. Paul, Minnesota, right near the site of last night`s tragic 

shooting that are erupting from protests today in the wake of two black men 

killed by police officers in just the last 48 hours.  

There`s also big politics news day today.  With just 11 days until the 

Republican National Convention, Donald Trump went to Capitol Hill to 

reassure member of his party that despite continuing criticism from GOP 

leaders, a string of unforced errors and plans for a possible convention 

coup, he has everything under control.  

Trump met first behind closed door with 215 House Republicans, and perhaps 

because many of those lawmakers are in safe, gerrymandered districts, 

things seem to have gone relatively well.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHRIS COLLINS (R), NEW YORK:  What you saw today was Donald Trump, the 

next president of the United States, super charge the Republican 

conference, one standing ovation after another.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES:  It`s a far different story at Trump`s meeting with Senate 

Republicans, four senators in tight re-election races, including John 

McCain, Marco Rubio and Illinois` Mark Kirk skipped the meeting.  

And it was quite a show.  Trump reportedly went after Kirk in absentia, who 

withdrew his endorsement of Trump last month, characterizing Kirk as a 

loser in front of Kirk`s colleagues.  Trump also had an extremely tense 

exchange with Arizona Senator Jeff Flake, who introduced himself as the, 

quote, “the other senator from Arizona, the one who didn`t get captured,” a 

reference to Trump`s criticism of McCain`s time as a prisoner of war during 

the Vietnam War. 

Afterward the meeting, Flake told NBC`s Hallie Jackson he felt compelled to 

say something.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA:  When he attacks the other senator from 

Arizona, John McCain, and attacks his war record by saying, I don`t respect 

people who get captured, I mean, that`s an awful, awful thing to say about 

a war hero, a true war hero.  And I don`t think that we can be dismissive 

of that kind of statement.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES:  After Flake told Trump he doesn`t feel he can support him at this 

point, Trump responded to hit hard at Flake.  Trump also told Flake he 

would not win re-election to which flake told him, he was not up for re-

election this year.  

Trump hast yet to reveal who will be speaking at the convention, despite 

promises to do, though he did reportedly tell the House GOP the convention 

speakers will include his wife, his daughter, and Jack Nicklaus.  So that`s 

a start.  

While Rubio and John Kasich, two of Trump`s biggest rivals in the primary 

have said they will not speak, Senator Ted Cruz got a personal meeting with 

Trump today announced this afternoon that he will be speaking with one big 

caveat.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), ARIZONA:  Donald asked me to speak at the Republican 

convention and I told him I`d be happy to do so.  

REPORTER:  What else was discussed during the meeting?  

CRUZ:  There was no discussion of the endorsement.  He asked me if I would 

speak at the convention and I said I`d be very glad to do so.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES:  Joining me now, Representative Michael Burgess, Republican of 

Texas, who supports Donald Trump and was in the meeting today.  

Congressman, how did you think the meeting went?  

REP. MICHAEL BURGESS (R), TEXAS:  Chris, thanks for having me on.  

First off, I thought the meeting, number one, I`m glad that it occurred.  I 

had actually wanted it to happen a month ago or even earlier than that.  It 

was important to have the meeting today.  I think members and the candidate 

got a chance to take a good measure of each other and I thought the 

candidate delivered, Mr. Trump delivered a very powerful message of unity 

and he delivered it well.  

HAYES:  There`s been some reporting indicating that Donald Trump 

specifically asked you and your colleagues to tell the press that the 

meeting went well.  Is that true?  Did he ask you to tell us that?  

BURGESS:  Not at the meeting I was in.  But everyone wants a good news 

story, right?  

HAYES:  I suppose.  Here`s my question for you.  

I don`t know if you watched Donald Trump speak or you watched his rally 

last night – 

BURGESS:  Oh, yes, when they`re on, when you guys carry them, I try to 

watch them.  One of the best evenings I had was three, four weeks ago down 

in Texas, and I got home just as his rally was starting in Dallas.  I went 

there.  They let me say a few words on the stage before it started.  

I`ll tell you, Chris, I`ve never felt the energy like I felt at that Donald 

Trump rally.  It is an incredible event.  It`s really something to see if 

you`ve never seen one.  

HAYES:  Yes, here`s the thing about that, it strikes me that maybe what 

plays well in the room of a Donald Trump rally isn`t necessarily playing 

really well with, say, the median American voter, the undecided voter, the 

voter who is not already a Donald Trump die-hard.  For instance, last 

night, he spent maybe five to ten minutes on how the media is treating 

Donald Trump.  

Do you think your constituents care about that?  

BURGESS:  Well, maybe they don`t.  But look, from his perspective, he ran a 

tough race against 16 other opponents in a Republican primary.  He`s now 

going to run against the other candidates that are involved in the November 

election.

And I think he feels very acutely – I don`t want to speak for him, but I 

think he does feel that he`s running against the media as well.  I don`t 

think that`s a stretch.  

HAYES:  Sure.

BURGESS:  No Republican candidate ever has the media on their side through 

a presidential election.  That just doesn`t happen.  

HAYES:  I respectfully disagree, but let me ask you this.  Was there 

discussion in that meeting of a substantive agenda so you can go back to 

your constituents and say, this is what the government and country are 

going to look like beyond build the wall and make Mexico pay for it, beyond 

trade is going to be so easy?  Do you have a sense of that?  

BURGESS:  The short answer to your question is yes.  And as you may or may 

not know, maybe you haven`t been paying attention to what`s been going on 

in the House.  Paul Ryan has put together his legislative task forces, his 

governing agenda – 

HAYES:  I`m going to stop you right there.  Is Paul Ryan`s view on trade 

the same as Donald Trump`s?  

BURGESS:  Well, of course they`re likely not.  But I think the bones are 

there of a good policy agenda.  And, you know, from my perspective, I like 

to talk about health care.  I got to tell you this, the Donald Trump 

campaign reached out to me right after the Indiana election – 

HAYES:  There you go.  

BURGESS:  And I endorsed Donald Trump.  They reached out to me and said, 

what do you think about health care?  I`ve never had that happen in a 

presidential campaign.  I think that`s positive.  

HAYES:  We`ll be looking forward to Burgess care.  

BURGESS:  There you go.  

HAYES:  Congressman, thank you very much for your time.  I appreciate it.

BURGESS:  Thank you.  

HAYES:  Joining me now, Ben Domenech, publisher of “The Federalist” who 

opposes Trump.  

I got to say, the inability – first of all, where do you start on this 

Senate meeting?  I mean, he goes in there, he`s calling a U.S. senator in 

the caucus a loser, he`s threatening another one, he`s saying he`s going to 

win Illinois.  

BEN DOMENECH, THE FEDERALIST:  Here`s the thing that`s an interesting 

contrast there, Chris.  Calvin Coolidge said you never have to apologize 

for the thing you don`t say.  He goes into the House meeting and he 

encourages people to go out and talk about how great the meeting goes and 

they`re all united, and everything like that.

And then he goes across the Senate side and his response to from what from 

my perspective is very accurate criticism from Jeff Flake, that you 

continue to say things that make it impossible for me to support you.  He 

respond to that by calling him a loser, and calling out the other people 

who don`t support him.  

What you see in Trump is someone who wavers back and forth, between – 

promising that he`s going to unite the Republican Party around him, 

promising that he`s going to stay on message, promising to go after 

Hillary, to Trump who seems to be more interested in making waves, even if 

they`re bad waves and getting the media`s attention.  

HAYES:  Yes, I think he`s caught in a loop.  I`m sure Congressman Burgess 

enjoyed the rally and lots of people enjoyed these rallies.  That`s not the 

audience that Donald Trump needs to speak to.  And I think the Senate 

caucus is aware of that because there are people in the Senate caucus who 

are going to win races statewide.  

DOMENECH:  Yes, absolutely, and that`s going to be the challenge for a lot 

of them, who unlike Jeff Flake are up this time around.  I think this is a 

scenario where honestly Trump has to take the next two weeks and really 

focus on picking a good V.P., having a good convention, they need to be 

good in order for him to make a come back from a number of unforced errors 

that have really been on him.  

They have not been – they have not been anybody`s fault, but his own.  

Otherwise, I think you`re going to see his poll numbers continue to have 

the kind of challenges that they`re seeing in all of these different key 

states.  

HAYES:  Are you confident – I mean, it`s kind of amazing to me.  The 

convention is 11 days away, OK?  Who knows who the veep is going to be?  

Him, his wife, his daughter, and Jack Nicklaus.  I guess that gets you one 

night, maybe.  Are you confident this thing is going to be pulled together?  

DOMENECH:  You know, I have to say, that as a media organization, running 

one, and trying to cover this convention, it`s the least planned out one 

that we`ve seen ever.  And because of that, it`s very difficult to 

anticipate what`s going to happen from night to night.  I think that that`s 

indicative of the kind of campaign that he`s run to this point.  

Now, Paul Manafort did run the convention in 1996.  We`ll see if they`re 

able to pull it together in time.  But it`s evident that a lot of people 

who Trump has maybe promised or wanted to have there have decided that it`s 

better to stay from the show.

HAYES:  Very quickly, does Ted Cruz stick the shiv in on stage?

DOMENECH:  You know, I think that`s a very interesting possibility.  The 

fact that he agreed to speak, but did not agree to endorse is indicative of 

the fact that he might have a very different message in Cleveland than the 

one that you hear from Donald Trump.

HAYES:  That is going to be very interesting.  Ben Domenech, thanks for 

your time tonight.  Appreciate it.

All right, still to come, Donald Trump just can`t seem to let that star 

tweet go, insisting he`s not wrong, everyone else is wrong.  What he said, 

coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES:  There are protests at this hour across the country tonight after 

two fatal police shootings in two days.  First, the shooting of Alton 

Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana in Tuesday, and then the shooting and 

killing of Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minnesota yesterday.

Right now, protesters are on the street in Atlanta.  Protesters have also 

taken to the streets here in New York City.  And outside the Minnesota 

governor`s mansion in St. Paul, where there has been a strong protest 

movement demanding justice from the governor who had some strong words 

today.  We`ll continue to monitor throughout the night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES:  Presumptive nominee Donald Trump is defending his early Saturday 

morning tweet that showed a Twitter image widely viewed as anti-Semitic of 

a six-pointed star next to a picture of Hillary Clinton with a bunch of 

money in the background.

His account later deleted that image and replaced the star with a circle.  

And on stage in Cincinnati last night said he would never have replaced the 

image.  That it wasn`t a Star of David, just a regular star.  He also 

accused the media of, quote, racially profiling because, according to him, 

it wasn`t for us there would be no Star of David controversy in the first 

place.

Shortly after the rally ended, Trump continued his Star of David defense 

by, of all things, invoking the Disney movie Frozen.

Where is the outrage for this Disney book?  Is this the Star of David also?  

Dishonest media, #frozen.

Just to be clear, as the website Mic.com first pointed out, that image of 

Hillary Clinton and the six-pointed star and a pile of money that Trump 

tweeted out previously existed on an internet message board of the alt-

right, a digital movement of neo-Nazis, anti-Semites and white 

supremacists.

Joining me now, Catherine Rampell, opinion columnist of The Washington 

Post.

We`re on day six of Star of David gate entirely because of Donald Trump.

CATHERINE RAMPELL, THE WASHINGTON POST:  Well, I mean, it would have been 

because of Donald Trump to begin with, to be fair.

But yes, I mean, when this first broke, it was upsetting, it was 

outrageous, lots of negative  feelings, but honestly my initial reaction 

was this is a dog bites man story.  Trump has tweeted neo-Nazi propaganda 

in the past.  It`s the news cycle.  It goes away.  And it pobably would 

have.  There has frankly been a lot of other news in the headlines 

recently, some quite favorable to Trump, and he cannot keep himself from 

talking about this again and again and dragging Disney into it.

HAYES:  Well, and I think it`s also gone in to this – I mean, on day six 

of this, right.  So, there`s 

two issues going on here.  There this sort of playing digital footsy with 

neo-Nazis, OK, the Nazi frogs as I call them.  These are the people that 

show up with their frog avatars, tweeting about Jews.

RAMPELL:  I`ve heard from them, yes.

HAYES:  Right.  Yes, well, we all have at this point.  But there`s also 

this deep question of like you are now – we are one degree removed from 

virulent anti-Semitism in a mainstream candidate which is a jarring and I 

would dare say new thing in American politics.

RAMPELL:  I`m not sure we`re one degree removed.  I mean, I know he says I 

love the Jews just like I love the blacks and I love the Mexicans and he 

likes to say this and he points out that his daughter…

His daughter is Jewish.  He has Jewish in-laws at this point as well, and 

grandchildren are Jewish.  But this is – you know, if this is an accident, 

that his campaign has tweeted this material out multiple times, it is 

willful negligence, I would say.  They have done this again and again.  

Clearly the alt-right seized this as a signal.  David Duke said there`s no 

other way one can read this tweet, except as, you know, pointing out that 

the Jews are controlling everything and it`s deliberately anti-Semitic.

So, you know, I think it`s giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt 

to say, oh, yeah, this is one degree removed, this was meaningless.

HAYES:  Then you have Jared Kushner who is, of course, his son-in-law, who 

is Ivanka`s 

husband.  Ivanka has converted to judaism.  You know, an employee of his 

own media organization writing an open letter saying, you need to condemn 

this.  And him saying, basically, he`s a great guy and of course he`s not 

anti-Semitic.

RAMPELL:  And he said – the other interesting thing about all of that was 

taht Jared Kushner when he responded to this, said my father-in-law has an 

open heart and I know he loves the Jews and blah, blah, blah, but he said 

that the campaign was kind of playing fast and loose with Twitter.  And 

kind of implicitly saying there was a mistake was made.  I think he said it 

was careless, his campaign was carelessly tweeting things.

And trump of course subsequently has gone in the opposite direction and has 

said, no, no, no, this was not careless.

HAYES:  And he should have left it up there.

RAMPELL:  They should have left it up there.

HAYES:  All right, we`ll see if we can get through a full week of the Star 

of David gate.

Catherine RAmpell, thanks for joining us.

Coming up, Republican frustrated by the FBIs recommendations of no charges 

for Hillary Clinton decide to investigate the investigators.  Didn`t go 

exactly as planned.  That story coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES:  All right, thing one tonight, we`ve come to associate the hashtag 

search feature on Twitter with trending news topics.  But there are 

hashtags for everything, like say, popular children`s movies, such as 

Disney hit Frozen, the beloved film of the over four crowd, including my 4-

year-old daughter.

Here`s what that looked like hashtag looked like recently.  Mostly tweets 

from automated bots talking Elsa and Anna dolls on eBay, sometimes tweets 

like this one from a Frozen themed party.

But every children`s movie needs a farcical villain.  That`s where Donald 

Trump comes in.

As we told you earlier, the presumptive Republican keeps defending his 

tweet of a meme, featuring Hillary Clinton, a pile of cash and a six-

pointed Star of David.  For six days, he has not let it go, if you will. 

Last night, Trump kept the controversy alive by tweeting a picture of a 

Frozen-themed coloring book lamenting “where is the outrage for this Disney 

book.  Is this the Star of David also?”  Dishonest media #frozen.”

Thing two, what happened to the hashtag #Frozen after that Trump tweet in 

60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES:  Day six of Trump`s Star of David meme controversy.  And last night, 

the presumptive nominee used a children`s coloring book as proof the meme 

he tweeted out was not anti-Semitic.

“Where is the outrage for this Disney book.  Is this the Star of David 

also?  Dishonest media #Frozen.”

Twitter being Twitter had a field day of this.  Opinions ranging from 

“Don`t you dare  bring Frozen into this.”  To, “I didn`t think we`d hit the 

Frozen sticker book phase of the election so soon.”

Hillary Clinton to a nod to one of movie`s songs tweeted this in response 

to Trump`s tweet, “Do you want to build a Straw man?”

Which prompted its own wave of reactions including, “I saw the best minds 

of a generation destroyed by having to deal with a presidential nominees 

debating the merits of Frozen iconography.”

But perhaps the last word on the matter should go to the voice of Anna 

herself, actress Kristen 

Bell.  She responded to Trump`s tweet this way, “zip it, Don, get your head 

out of your ass.  We`ve more 

important things to talk about today.  Alton Sterling, Philando Castile.”

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS:  NBC`s Lisa Myers tonight on where Whitewater 

stands.

LISA MYERS, NBC NEWS:  The surprise appointment sent shockwaves across the 

White 

House and congress and threw the entire six month Whitewater investigation 

into limbo.  Starr, a Reagan Republican, is a former federal appeals judge 

and served as George Bush`s solicitor general.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES:  22 years ago this summer, NBC Nightly News reported on Kenneth 

Starr`s appointment to the newly reinstituted post of independent counsel, 

charged with investigating the Clintons` Whitewater scandal.

Now, someone else had been expected  to get the job, a lawyer named Robert 

Fisk, who had been picked by Attorney General Janet Reno earlier that year 

to start the inquiry into Whitewater, which is a failed real estate deal 

that lost money for Bill and Hillary Clinton.

After six months, Fisk released a report finding no evidence of wrongdoing 

by the Clintons.  Zilch.  And that is when the Clinton scandal industrial 

complex shifted into gear.  Republicans in congress were unsatisfied, 

insisting Fisk, a Republican, couldn`t be independent because he was 

appointed by the attorney general who was appointed by Bill Clinton, who 

was the subject of the probe.

A panel of judges agreed with that logic.  And in August 1994, they chose 

Ken Starr to take 

over as the new independent counsel.

And over the next six years, Starr`s investigations would take him from 

Whitewater, which 

wasn`t going anywhere, to travelgate, which petered out, to filegate, and 

don`t worry, basically

no one outside professional politics even remembers what originally sparked 

these bogus scandals.

And ultimately through a few more roundabouts and back roads to Monica 

Lewinsky, which lead to President Clinton`s impeachment for perjury and 

obstruction of justice.  And, let me stress, had nothing whatsoever to do 

with the original probe into Waterwater where this all started.

That probe wasn`t closed until just before Clinton left office.

After the impeachment hearnigs were long over, Ken Starr had already left 

the independent counsels office, and just like the initial report six years 

earlier it came up completely empty, meaning both Clintons were exonerated 

of wrongdoing for Whitewater.

In totally unrelated news, a week after an eighth congressional committee 

on Benghazi released its findings still unable to incriminate Hillary 

Clinton, today the House oversight committee called FBI Director James 

Comey who actually served as Ken Starr`s deputy back in the 90s to testify 

about his recommendation not to charge Clinton over her emails.

There were a couple of ways Republicans could have gone with this: they 

could hammer on the discrepancies between the FBI`s findings and Clinton`s 

public account of how she handled her emails as Congressman Trey Gowdy 

tried to do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TREY GOWDY, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA:  Secretary Clinton said she never sent 

or received any classified information over her private email, was that 

true?

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR:  Our investigation found there was classified 

information sent…

GOWDY:  So it was not true?

COMEY:  That`s what I said.

GOWDY:  Secretary Clinton said, I did not email any classified material to 

anyone on my email.  There is no classified material.  Was that true?

COMEY:  No, there was classified mAterial email.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES:  Or they could grandstand and make a mess of trying to undermine the 

witness because they can`t help themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I`ll be at a couple of cafes where I see folks and 

meetings and they`re going to ask questions about what took place.  Have 

you seen the Broadway production Hamilton?

COMEY:  Not yet.  I`m hoping to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE;  I haven`t either, but I understand that it won 

choreography Tony Award.

The problem I have in explaining to my constituents is what`s come down, it 

almost looks like a 

choreography.  

My folks think that there`s something fishy about this.  I`m not a 

conspiracy theorist, but there are a lot of questions on how this came 

down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES:  Still ahead, in the wake of two police shooting deaths in just 48 

hours, there are protests happening at this hour around the country.  

Tonight people gathering in numerous cities.  The latest on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES:  So, we`ve been watching these protests happening all over the 

country tonight after the latest shooting by police of a black man, the 

second in just two days.  Joining me now, Joan Walsh, MSNBC political 

analyst, national affairs correspondent of The Nation.  Back with me Maya 

Wiley, who is about to become the chair of the (inaudible) complaint review 

board that oversees the New York City Police, and a former counsel to the 

Mayor Bill de Blasio here in New York.

Joan, let me start with you on this question.  The president talked today 

about – just put yourself in the shoes of someone who lost a family member 

this way.  Try to think of it that way, try to be empathetic, try not to 

get into the usual battle lines.

JOAN WALSH, THE NATION MAGAZINE:  That`s right.  Red, blue.

HAYES:  Yeah, because you see it.  I mean knew immediately well what was – 

was he complying, did he have a – you know, all this desire to justify 

that you see that I actually don`t really understand, frankly.

Do you think the politics of this are moving?

WALSH:  I think the politics are moving.  I think it was great that 

Governor Dayton came out today and just flat out said very early in his 

statement, yes, I think it was racism.  Yes, I think he 

would be alive and this wouldn`t have happened in front of his girlfriend 

and her daughter if he were white.  That was a big progress. 

On the other hand it`s sad to me that the president even has to tell us, 

use your empathy, people, meaning white people, because it has become this 

thing where I can predict your reaction to a police shooting, more or less 

by your party, and especially if you support Donald Trump.

So we`re making progress, Black Lives Matter is probably the most vital, 

potent movement that

we`ve seen.  I got caught in the demonstration on my way here, and happy to 

see it.  So we`ve made a lot of progress and yet people are not being 

prosecuted and people are still being killed in cold blood.

HAYES:  And yet in the case one of the things that I think complicates the 

politics, particulaly in the case in both of these men, they were both 

armed, but they were carrying for the purposes that the people who advocate 

the most maximum interpretation second rights say they should be able to – 

to 

protect themselves.

In the case of Mr. Castile, legally and with a permit and advising the 

officer.

WALSH:  That he had them.

HAYES:  So, my question today is, deafening silence from the NRA.

WILEY:  And add to that deeply troubling irony that the NRA actually made 

the argumentthat black people should be anti-gun control because of the 

amount of gun violence in black communities.

So this actually stands in a palpable and emotional opposition to that very 

argument.

HAYES:  Right, because they made the argument because – that the only way 

you can defend yourself…

WILEY:  …is with a firearm.

HAYES:  …is with a firearm.

And yet of course when a police encounters a firearm, then you are a 

threat.  And these two men have been killed punitively because they were 

armed.

WILEY:  And what`s critically important here is the notion of implicit 

bias, which we talked about and actually the president referred to in his 

speech, which is that we have to take into account, as we think about 

improving policing in this country, the way in which sometimes even 

unconscious racial stereotypes impact the decisions police officers may 

make in a split second and how they interpret the information that they are 

getting.

And it`s deeply troubling.  It is also very different how you respond to 

that kind of problem, that over racism.  They`re both important to respond 

to and cannot be tolerated, but they`re dealt with differently.  And I`m 

proud of the fact that the NYPD has implicit bias training that it`s 

instituting now.

HAYES:  Those NYPD right now out on the streets with protesters who have 

taken over part of Times Square.  There were some arrests.  

The thing that I keep thinking about – and we`re talking about this 

empathy is that last night, I came home and I saw the video and I didn`t 

know the outcome, and I was praying, like he was kin, that he would live, 

like he was kin.  I was so, please, tell me this man lived – and I – at 

the same time, it`s like the videos can be dehumanizing and exploitative, 

but there is power in them, I have to say politically I think at this 

moment.

WALSH:  I think so too.  And I have to say that we know that two young 

children, a 15-year-old boy and a 4-year-old girl have witnessed these, or 

at least in the case of the video, have seen these men murdered in cold 

blood.  I mean, that – just watching yesterday the sun crying, just you 

know, destroyed.

WILEY:  And the 4-year-old having to tell her mother that, in fact…

HAYES:  I`m here for you.

WILEY:  And heard that her father was dead.

HAYES:  Right.

Maya Wiley and Joan Walsh.

That is All In for this evening.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY 

BE UPDATED.

END    

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Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES

Date: July 7, 2016

Guest: Wesley Lowery, DeRay McKesson, Maya Wiley, Michael Burgess, Ben

Domenech, Maya Wiley, Joan Walsh, Catherine Rampell

 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

 

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over):  Tonight on ALL IN – 

 

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  This is not just a black

issue.  It`s not just a Hispanic issue.  This is an American issue. 

 

HAYES:  President Obama addresses the nation in the wake of two police

shootings. 

 

OBAMA:  What if this happened to somebody in your family? 

 

HAYES:  Tonight as protests grow, the president`s extraordinary call for

change. 

 

Then –

 

REPORTER:  Was it tense?  How would you characterize it? 

 

SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA:  Yes, it was tense. 

 

HAYES:  Donald Trump`s Senate smack-down.  Eleven days from Cleveland,

tense times for Trump as convention coup talk swirls and Ted Cruz makes a

move. 

 

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS:  Donald asked me to speak at the Republican

convention, and I told him I`d be happy to do so. 

 

HAYES:  And frustrated Republicans search for answers from the FBI. 

 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  As a non-lawyer, as a non-investigator, it would appear

to me you have got a hell of a case. 

 

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR:  And I`m telling you we don`t and I hope people

take the time to understand why. 

 

HAYES:  The Clinton industrial scandal rolls on when ALL IN starts right

now. 

 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

 

HAYES:  Good evening from New York.  I`m Chris Hayes. 

 

For the second time in two days, a police killing of a black man has

brought about outrage and a particular kind of horror that comes when

there`s graphic video of a life lost at the state`s hands.  This time, the

shooting was in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, and the video in the immediate

aftermath of the shooting was streamed live on Facebook by the fiancee of

the dying victim. 

 

The two shootings prompting President Obama to make extended and

extraordinary remarks after landing in Warsaw, Poland, for a NATO summit. 

We will bring you those remarks in a moment.

 

But first, at about 9:00 p.m. yesterday, 32-year-old Philando Castile was

pulled over for a broken tail light, according to his fiancee, Diamond

Reynolds, who was a passenger in the car, along with her 4-year-old

daughter.  The following is a large portion of Reynold`s live stream video

just moments after the shooting in which she describes what happened.  The

video is graphic and disturbing. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

DIAMOND REYNOLDS, VICTIM`S FIANCEE:  Stay with me.  We got pulled over for

a busted tail light in the back and the police just – he`s covered.  He`s

killed my boyfriend.  He`s licensed – he`s carried – he`s licensed to

carry. 

 

He was trying to get out his ID and his wallet out his pocket and he let

the officer know that he was – he had a firearm and he was reaching for

his wallet and the officer just shot him in his arm.  We`re waiting for a

backup.

 

OFFICER:  Ma`am, keep your hands where they are.

 

REYNOLDS:  I will, sir, no worries.  I will.

 

(EXPLETIVE DELETED)

 

REYNOLDS:  He just shot his arm off.  We got pulled over on Larpenteur.

 

OFFICER:  I told him not to reach for it!  I told him to get his head up!

 

REYNOLDS:  He had, you told him to get his ID, sir, his driver`s license. 

 

Oh my God.  Please don`t tell me he`s dead.  Please don`t tell me my

boyfriend just went like that. 

 

OFFICER:  Keep your hands where they are. 

 

REYNOLDS:  Yes, I`ll keep my hands where they are.  Please don`t tell me

this, Lord.  Please, Jesus, don`t tell me that he`s done. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  Reynolds said it took 15 minutes for paramedics to arrive. 

Philando Castile was taken to Hennepin County Medical Center in

Minneapolis.  He was declared dead at 9:37.

 

Castile worked for the St. Paul public school system, in the nutrition

services department.  Reynolds said he had just come from getting a hair

cut for his birthday, which was just about a week away.  Crowds gathered

almost immediately after the shooting and the live-stream video, and today,

further protests around the entire nation. 

 

Today, Diamond Reynolds was released by police and gave a lengthy interview

posted on Facebook.  Here is a portion of that. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

REYNODS:  They took me to jail.  They didn`t give us water.  They took

everything from me.  They put me in a room and separated me from my child. 

They treated me like a prisoner. 

 

They treated me like I did this to me.  And I didn`t.  They did this to us. 

They took a black man away. 

 

We used to be safe here, but the police, the people that are supposed to

serve and protect us are not serving us and are not protecting us.  They`re

taking innocent people away from their families.  They`re taking innocent

people off the streets, and it`s not OK.  It`s not OK. 

 

Everyone will see that this was a very detrimental situation.  Not only to

me, not only to her, but everybody in this community.  Everybody in this

world, not just blacks, not just whites, not just Asians, but everyone. 

This affected everyone. 

 

Not black lives matter.  All lives matter!  Every single life out here

matter, no matter the color, the race, the nationality, we all deserve to

be heard. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  The police officer is on paid leave, pending the investigation,

which is standard procedure. 

 

Minnesota`s Governor Mark Dayton said he requested the Justice Department

investigate the case.  The Justice Department said it would monitor the

state investigation being conducted by Minnesota`s state Bureau of Criminal

Apprehension. 

 

The governor was blunt in his assessment of the killing. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

GOV. MARK DAYTON (D), MINNESOTA:  Would this have happened if those

passengers, the driver and the passenger were white?  I don`t think it

would have.  So I`m forced to confront – I think all of us in Minnesota

are forced to confront.  This – this kind of racism exists. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  This comes less than 48 hours after the shooting death of Alton

Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, a shooting at very close range, which

immediately prompted a federal investigation.  Also, that shooting caught

on tape. 

 

President Obama after arriving in Warsaw today, spoke for over 50 minutes,

citing statistics about the increased rates in which people of color are

killed by law enforcement and calling for bipartisan action. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

OBAMA:  According to various studies, not just one, but a wide range of

studies that have been carried out over a number of years, African-

Americans are 30 percent more likely than whites to be pulled over.  After

being pulled over, African-Americans and Hispanics are three times more

likely to be searched. 

 

Last year, African Americans were shot by police at more than twice the

rate of whites.  African Americans are arrested at twice the rate of

whites.  African-American defendants are 75 percent more likely to be

charged with offenses, carrying mandatory minimums.  They receive sentences

that are almost 10 percent longer than comparable whites arrested for the

same crime, so that if you add it all up, the African American and Hispanic

population who make up only 30 percent of the general population make up

more than half of the incarcerated population. 

 

Now, these are facts.  There`s a big chunk of our fellow citizenry that

feels as if because of the color of their skin, they are not being treated

the same.  And that hurts.  And that should trouble all of us. 

 

This is not just a black issue.  It`s not just a Hispanic issue.  This is

an American issue that we should all care about.  All fair-minded people

should be concerned. 

 

We have extraordinary appreciation and respect for the vast majority of

police officers who put their lives on the line to protect us every single

day.  They`ve got a dangerous job.  It is a tough job.  And as I`ve said

before, they have a right to go home to their families, just like anybody

else on the job.  And there are going to be circumstances in which they

have to make split-second decisions, we understand that.

 

And it`s incumbent on all of us to say, we can do better than this, we are

better than this.  And to not have it degenerate into the unusual political

scrum, we should be able to step back, reflect, and ask ourselves, what can

we do better so that everybody feels as if they`re equal under the law? 

 

Now the good news is, is that there are practices we can institute that

will make a difference.  I`m encouraged by the fact that the majority of

leadership and police departments around the country recognize this, but

change has been too slow.  We have to have a greater sense of urgency about

this. 

 

I`m also encouraged by the way, that we have bipartisan support for

criminal justice reform, working its way through Congress.  On a regular

basis, we bring in those who have done heroic work in law enforcement and

have survived.  Sometimes they`ve been injured, sometimes they risk their

lives in remarkable ways and we applaud them and appreciate them, and also

saying that there are problems across our criminal justice system.  There

are biases, subconscious and unconscious, that have to be rooted out. 

 

And I would just ask those who question the sincerity or the legitimacy of

protests and vigils and expressions of outrage who somehow label those

expressions of outrage as, quote/unquote, “political correctness”.  I just

ask folks to step back and think, what if this happened to somebody in your

family?  How would you feel? 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  Joining me now, Pulitzer Prize-winning writer and national reporter

for “The Washington Post”, Wesley Lowery.  His book, “They Can`t Kill Us

All” comes out this fall, and you`re definitely going to want to read that. 

 

Wesley, all right, I guess we should start with what happened in Falcon

Heights, and I think there`s a few things that are striking about this

particular instance.  One is the presence of a weapon which was apparently

announced by Mr. Castile at the time of the search.  He was permitted to

have it.  And two is the just way that video plays a role almost as a kind

of life raft for Ms. Reynolds in this extremely perilous and dangerous

situation. 

 

WESLEY LOWERY, NATIONAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST:  Of course.  That

Reynolds has now watched her fiance, her boyfriend, be shot by a police

officer, the gun is still trained on her loved one next to her.  And rather

than, as we`ve seen time and time again previously, rather than call 911

and say, can a sergeant come out, can the ambulance come out? 

 

What she thought in this moment, I need to document this, I need to show

someone in real time, right, that people will not believe me unless I can

broadcast that.  The wherewithal to broadcast live was remarkable. 

 

And I think it speaks to this idea and we`ve seen it whether it`d be in

this shooting, whether it`d be in Alton Sterling, the night previously, I

mean, a ton of other shootings, Walter Scott.  This idea that black men and

women see their stories being validated through videotape, that they`re

saying, and black men and women have been saying for generations in this

country, we are treated this way by law enforcement, and people said, no,

you`re not, you`re making it up. 

 

And now, video, whether it`d be after someone is killed, whether it`d be

taken themselves, or they`d be captured in a body camera, has now in dozens

of cases shown us that there are circumstances, that there are times when

the police are not being forthcoming about these circumstances and that,

no, Black Americans, we`re not making this up. 

 

HAYES:  You have been part of the team that won the Pulitzer, documenting

statistically deaths at the hands of the police in the United States.  And

I guess in broad strokes, I imagine, I think the president may have been

citing your work as he read those statistics today.  What do we know about

whether the problem is getting better or worse? 

 

LOWERY:  Well, it is getting worse.  The police this year, in the first six

months of the year are on pace to kill 6 percent more people, to shoot and

kill 6 percent more people than last year. 

 

And so, what we`re seeing here is not a decrease in fatal shootings,

rather, an increase in fatal shootings.  And that`s coming despite the fact

that more of these shootings are being caught on camera, right?  So there

are 30 more shootings this year than at this point last year that have been

captured on – whether it be a dash cam or a body camera or a bystander

video. 

 

And yet, there are 30 more shootings total than there were last year.  So,

what we know is the amount of fatal police shootings on average, three each

day of the calendar year, has not in any way been abated.  Rather it

started to uptick. 

 

HAYES:  Wes Lowery of “The Washington Post” – that book again is “They

Can`t Kill Us All,” comes out in November. 

 

All right.  Joining me is DeRay McKesson, civil rights activist and founder

of Campaign Zero, a police reform group, and Maya Wiley, chair of the

civilian complaint review board here in New York City, which oversees the

New York City police and also former counsel to Mayor de Blasio. 

 

DeRay, let me start with you.  I have seen a pattern in expressions of

anguish from people in the last two days.  And also, I have seen a fair

amount of despair.  Two years ago, Michael Brown was shot in Ferguson.  I

think that was the start of concerted attention and organizing and a

movement around police killings, around policing. 

 

Where are things two years later?  What do you say to people that are

tempted by despair? 

 

DERAY MCKESSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST:  So, what we know to be true is that

these two men should be alive today.  The police officers chose to kill

them.  They could have made a different choice.  We knew that in 2014 when

Mike Brown was killed and we`ve known it for so long. 

 

I think where we are now is that protest is the act of telling the truth in

public.  People have been using their bodies to tell the truth about the

trauma that people are facing and also to tell the truth about the fact

that we can live in a world where the police don`t kill people.  So, what

we see now is people in the streets highlighting what`s happening, but also

pressing their legislators for an expanded use of force policy, that makes

it really clear that deadly force should be used as a last resort, that

preservation of life should be key. 

 

You know, Obama, his statement today was important.  But it will be more

important for him to actually make a federal use of force policy for the

use of force standards to be included in the Democratic convention

platform.  That`s what we`re seeing people push for, these concrete things

that can change.  Change the structure, that will then change culture. 

 

HAYES:  Maya, you have fascinating experience.  You were general counsel of

New York city mayor`s office.  You`re now heading up the civilian complaint

review board. 

 

How much of this is about training at one end and how much of this is a

part of a just much broader way of policing that America has arrived at? 

 

MAYA WILEY, CHAIR, CIVILIAN COMPLAINT REV. BOARD, NYC:  That`s an important

question.  I should qualify my answer first by saying I`m not quite – 

 

HAYES:  You haven`t started yet.  Right.

 

WILEY:  I`m not quite yet the chair, by July 18th. 

 

Look, I think that we`re seeing today and what we`ve been seeing over the

past several years is both an awakening of – because of technology, about

the realities as we`ve heard about what can happen to folks unfairly

sometimes and to an extreme loss of life and it`s tragic and disgraceful. 

I think we`ve also seen that, and certainly our New York experience, it`s

critically important whether police departments see themselves as in

relationship with community or if they see themselves as at odds with

community. 

 

I was having a conversation with someone in city hall.  Actually, it was a

police officer who was a friend of mine.  And one of the things he was

saying is that under the previous police commissioner, he was punished for

taking off his gun and playing basketball with kids on his beat.  Punished

for that. 

 

Under this current commissioner, that`s actually not something that would

be punishment behavior.  So, the encouragement of a different set of

relationships is fundamental.  But it`s also oversight and accountability,

right?  I mean, New York City has a civilian complaint review board and

it`s really fundamentally important that there`d be some form of

accountability and oversight that`s also fair and just. 

 

HAYES:  And yet, DeRay, what I feel part of the seeds of despair in folks

that I`ve seen, people that I`ve talked to and people I`ve been in touch

with over the last 48 hours, in reportorial capacity and the capacity as a

friend, is the idea of the accountability on the back end, after this has

happened won`t bring the person back, A, and, B, we`ve already seen time

and time again, either no indictment or an indictment and then a not guilty

verdict.  The system just doesn`t seem designed to produce accountability

on the back end. 

 

MCKESSON:  Yes, so this is about a broken culture.  And we know that the

policing in so many cities and so many states, the culture of policing is

broken.  What happened when you give people the power to take someone`s

life and they can do it with literally – they can do it with impunity at

every stance? 

 

So, we believe that if you change structures and systems that will make a

police officer accountable, that would change the culture of policing in

and of itself.  That would discourage people from choosing to kill black

and brown people across the country.  It would change it on the front end

too.  And I think that`s a real solution.  I think that`s possible. 

 

But again, what we`re seeing with the lack of convictions is not the court

saying they were not involved in the death of these unarmed citizens. 

We`re seeing the court saying their involvement was not criminal.  And that

shows us there`s a set of laws, policies and practices that simply protect

the police at all steps for any reason and that just isn`t OK. 

 

HAYES:  All right. DeRay McKesson and Maya Wiley, it`s a great pleasure to

have you here.  Thank you very much for coming. 

 

WILEY:  Thank you for having me.

 

HAYES:  We`re going to keep an eye on the protests that are happening in at

least four or five cities around the country tonight, from Atlanta to

Minneapolis, St. Paul, here in New York, down to Philly. 

 

There`s a lot of political news to report as well.  So do not go anywhere. 

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

HAYES:  That is a live shot of Fifth Avenue here in New York City where

protesters have been on the move for the past several hours, shutting down

traffic, one of several cities around the country, including in Minneapolis

and St. Paul, Minnesota, right near the site of last night`s tragic

shooting that are erupting from protests today in the wake of two black men

killed by police officers in just the last 48 hours. 

 

There`s also big politics news day today.  With just 11 days until the

Republican National Convention, Donald Trump went to Capitol Hill to

reassure member of his party that despite continuing criticism from GOP

leaders, a string of unforced errors and plans for a possible convention

coup, he has everything under control. 

 

Trump met first behind closed door with 215 House Republicans, and perhaps

because many of those lawmakers are in safe, gerrymandered districts,

things seem to have gone relatively well.  

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

REP. CHRIS COLLINS (R), NEW YORK:  What you saw today was Donald Trump, the

next president of the United States, super charge the Republican

conference, one standing ovation after another. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  It`s a far different story at Trump`s meeting with Senate

Republicans, four senators in tight re-election races, including John

McCain, Marco Rubio and Illinois` Mark Kirk skipped the meeting. 

 

And it was quite a show.  Trump reportedly went after Kirk in absentia, who

withdrew his endorsement of Trump last month, characterizing Kirk as a

loser in front of Kirk`s colleagues.  Trump also had an extremely tense

exchange with Arizona Senator Jeff Flake, who introduced himself as the,

quote, “the other senator from Arizona, the one who didn`t get captured,” a

reference to Trump`s criticism of McCain`s time as a prisoner of war during

the Vietnam War.

 

Afterward the meeting, Flake told NBC`s Hallie Jackson he felt compelled to

say something. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA:  When he attacks the other senator from

Arizona, John McCain, and attacks his war record by saying, I don`t respect

people who get captured, I mean, that`s an awful, awful thing to say about

a war hero, a true war hero.  And I don`t think that we can be dismissive

of that kind of statement. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  After Flake told Trump he doesn`t feel he can support him at this

point, Trump responded to hit hard at Flake.  Trump also told Flake he

would not win re-election to which flake told him, he was not up for re-

election this year. 

 

Trump hast yet to reveal who will be speaking at the convention, despite

promises to do, though he did reportedly tell the House GOP the convention

speakers will include his wife, his daughter, and Jack Nicklaus.  So that`s

a start. 

 

While Rubio and John Kasich, two of Trump`s biggest rivals in the primary

have said they will not speak, Senator Ted Cruz got a personal meeting with

Trump today announced this afternoon that he will be speaking with one big

caveat. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), ARIZONA:  Donald asked me to speak at the Republican

convention and I told him I`d be happy to do so. 

 

REPORTER:  What else was discussed during the meeting? 

 

CRUZ:  There was no discussion of the endorsement.  He asked me if I would

speak at the convention and I said I`d be very glad to do so. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  Joining me now, Representative Michael Burgess, Republican of

Texas, who supports Donald Trump and was in the meeting today. 

 

Congressman, how did you think the meeting went? 

 

REP. MICHAEL BURGESS (R), TEXAS:  Chris, thanks for having me on. 

 

First off, I thought the meeting, number one, I`m glad that it occurred.  I

had actually wanted it to happen a month ago or even earlier than that.  It

was important to have the meeting today.  I think members and the candidate

got a chance to take a good measure of each other and I thought the

candidate delivered, Mr. Trump delivered a very powerful message of unity

and he delivered it well. 

 

HAYES:  There`s been some reporting indicating that Donald Trump

specifically asked you and your colleagues to tell the press that the

meeting went well.  Is that true?  Did he ask you to tell us that? 

 

BURGESS:  Not at the meeting I was in.  But everyone wants a good news

story, right? 

 

HAYES:  I suppose.  Here`s my question for you. 

 

I don`t know if you watched Donald Trump speak or you watched his rally

last night –

 

BURGESS:  Oh, yes, when they`re on, when you guys carry them, I try to

watch them.  One of the best evenings I had was three, four weeks ago down

in Texas, and I got home just as his rally was starting in Dallas.  I went

there.  They let me say a few words on the stage before it started. 

 

I`ll tell you, Chris, I`ve never felt the energy like I felt at that Donald

Trump rally.  It is an incredible event.  It`s really something to see if

you`ve never seen one. 

 

HAYES:  Yes, here`s the thing about that, it strikes me that maybe what

plays well in the room of a Donald Trump rally isn`t necessarily playing

really well with, say, the median American voter, the undecided voter, the

voter who is not already a Donald Trump die-hard.  For instance, last

night, he spent maybe five to ten minutes on how the media is treating

Donald Trump. 

 

Do you think your constituents care about that? 

 

BURGESS:  Well, maybe they don`t.  But look, from his perspective, he ran a

tough race against 16 other opponents in a Republican primary.  He`s now

going to run against the other candidates that are involved in the November

election.

 

And I think he feels very acutely – I don`t want to speak for him, but I

think he does feel that he`s running against the media as well.  I don`t

think that`s a stretch. 

 

HAYES:  Sure.

 

BURGESS:  No Republican candidate ever has the media on their side through

a presidential election.  That just doesn`t happen. 

 

HAYES:  I respectfully disagree, but let me ask you this.  Was there

discussion in that meeting of a substantive agenda so you can go back to

your constituents and say, this is what the government and country are

going to look like beyond build the wall and make Mexico pay for it, beyond

trade is going to be so easy?  Do you have a sense of that? 

 

BURGESS:  The short answer to your question is yes.  And as you may or may

not know, maybe you haven`t been paying attention to what`s been going on

in the House.  Paul Ryan has put together his legislative task forces, his

governing agenda –

 

HAYES:  I`m going to stop you right there.  Is Paul Ryan`s view on trade

the same as Donald Trump`s? 

 

BURGESS:  Well, of course they`re likely not.  But I think the bones are

there of a good policy agenda.  And, you know, from my perspective, I like

to talk about health care.  I got to tell you this, the Donald Trump

campaign reached out to me right after the Indiana election –

 

HAYES:  There you go. 

 

BURGESS:  And I endorsed Donald Trump.  They reached out to me and said,

what do you think about health care?  I`ve never had that happen in a

presidential campaign.  I think that`s positive. 

 

HAYES:  We`ll be looking forward to Burgess care. 

 

BURGESS:  There you go. 

 

HAYES:  Congressman, thank you very much for your time.  I appreciate it.

 

BURGESS:  Thank you. 

 

HAYES:  Joining me now, Ben Domenech, publisher of “The Federalist” who

opposes Trump. 

 

I got to say, the inability – first of all, where do you start on this

Senate meeting?  I mean, he goes in there, he`s calling a U.S. senator in

the caucus a loser, he`s threatening another one, he`s saying he`s going to

win Illinois. 

 

BEN DOMENECH, THE FEDERALIST:  Here`s the thing that`s an interesting

contrast there, Chris.  Calvin Coolidge said you never have to apologize

for the thing you don`t say.  He goes into the House meeting and he

encourages people to go out and talk about how great the meeting goes and

they`re all united, and everything like that.

 

And then he goes across the Senate side and his response to from what from

my perspective is very accurate criticism from Jeff Flake, that you

continue to say things that make it impossible for me to support you.  He

respond to that by calling him a loser, and calling out the other people

who don`t support him. 

 

What you see in Trump is someone who wavers back and forth, between –

promising that he`s going to unite the Republican Party around him,

promising that he`s going to stay on message, promising to go after

Hillary, to Trump who seems to be more interested in making waves, even if

they`re bad waves and getting the media`s attention. 

 

HAYES:  Yes, I think he`s caught in a loop.  I`m sure Congressman Burgess

enjoyed the rally and lots of people enjoyed these rallies.  That`s not the

audience that Donald Trump needs to speak to.  And I think the Senate

caucus is aware of that because there are people in the Senate caucus who

are going to win races statewide. 

 

DOMENECH:  Yes, absolutely, and that`s going to be the challenge for a lot

of them, who unlike Jeff Flake are up this time around.  I think this is a

scenario where honestly Trump has to take the next two weeks and really

focus on picking a good V.P., having a good convention, they need to be

good in order for him to make a come back from a number of unforced errors

that have really been on him. 

 

They have not been – they have not been anybody`s fault, but his own. 

Otherwise, I think you`re going to see his poll numbers continue to have

the kind of challenges that they`re seeing in all of these different key

states. 

 

HAYES:  Are you confident – I mean, it`s kind of amazing to me.  The

convention is 11 days away, OK?  Who knows who the veep is going to be? 

Him, his wife, his daughter, and Jack Nicklaus.  I guess that gets you one

night, maybe.  Are you confident this thing is going to be pulled together? 

 

DOMENECH:  You know, I have to say, that as a media organization, running

one, and trying to cover this convention, it`s the least planned out one

that we`ve seen ever.  And because of that, it`s very difficult to

anticipate what`s going to happen from night to night.  I think that that`s

indicative of the kind of campaign that he`s run to this point. 

 

Now, Paul Manafort did run the convention in 1996.  We`ll see if they`re

able to pull it together in time.  But it`s evident that a lot of people

who Trump has maybe promised or wanted to have there have decided that it`s

better to stay from the show.

 

HAYES:  Very quickly, does Ted Cruz stick the shiv in on stage?

 

DOMENECH:  You know, I think that`s a very interesting possibility.  The

fact that he agreed to speak, but did not agree to endorse is indicative of

the fact that he might have a very different message in Cleveland than the

one that you hear from Donald Trump.

 

HAYES:  That is going to be very interesting.  Ben Domenech, thanks for

your time tonight.  Appreciate it.

 

All right, still to come, Donald Trump just can`t seem to let that star

tweet go, insisting he`s not wrong, everyone else is wrong.  What he said,

coming up.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

HAYES:  There are protests at this hour across the country tonight after

two fatal police shootings in two days.  First, the shooting of Alton

Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana in Tuesday, and then the shooting and

killing of Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minnesota yesterday.

 

Right now, protesters are on the street in Atlanta.  Protesters have also

taken to the streets here in New York City.  And outside the Minnesota

governor`s mansion in St. Paul, where there has been a strong protest

movement demanding justice from the governor who had some strong words

today.  We`ll continue to monitor throughout the night.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

HAYES:  Presumptive nominee Donald Trump is defending his early Saturday

morning tweet that showed a Twitter image widely viewed as anti-Semitic of

a six-pointed star next to a picture of Hillary Clinton with a bunch of

money in the background.

 

His account later deleted that image and replaced the star with a circle. 

And on stage in Cincinnati last night said he would never have replaced the

image.  That it wasn`t a Star of David, just a regular star.  He also

accused the media of, quote, racially profiling because, according to him,

it wasn`t for us there would be no Star of David controversy in the first

place.

 

Shortly after the rally ended, Trump continued his Star of David defense

by, of all things, invoking the Disney movie Frozen.

 

Where is the outrage for this Disney book?  Is this the Star of David also? 

Dishonest media, #frozen.

 

Just to be clear, as the website Mic.com first pointed out, that image of

Hillary Clinton and the six-pointed star and a pile of money that Trump

tweeted out previously existed on an internet message board of the alt-

right, a digital movement of neo-Nazis, anti-Semites and white

supremacists.

 

Joining me now, Catherine Rampell, opinion columnist of The Washington

Post.

 

We`re on day six of Star of David gate entirely because of Donald Trump.

 

CATHERINE RAMPELL, THE WASHINGTON POST:  Well, I mean, it would have been

because of Donald Trump to begin with, to be fair.

 

But yes, I mean, when this first broke, it was upsetting, it was

outrageous, lots of negative  feelings, but honestly my initial reaction

was this is a dog bites man story.  Trump has tweeted neo-Nazi propaganda

in the past.  It`s the news cycle.  It goes away.  And it pobably would

have.  There has frankly been a lot of other news in the headlines

recently, some quite favorable to Trump, and he cannot keep himself from

talking about this again and again and dragging Disney into it.

 

HAYES:  Well, and I think it`s also gone in to this – I mean, on day six

of this, right.  So, there`s

two issues going on here.  There this sort of playing digital footsy with

neo-Nazis, OK, the Nazi frogs as I call them.  These are the people that

show up with their frog avatars, tweeting about Jews.

 

RAMPELL:  I`ve heard from them, yes.

 

HAYES:  Right.  Yes, well, we all have at this point.  But there`s also

this deep question of like you are now – we are one degree removed from

virulent anti-Semitism in a mainstream candidate which is a jarring and I

would dare say new thing in American politics.

 

RAMPELL:  I`m not sure we`re one degree removed.  I mean, I know he says I

love the Jews just like I love the blacks and I love the Mexicans and he

likes to say this and he points out that his daughter…

 

His daughter is Jewish.  He has Jewish in-laws at this point as well, and

grandchildren are Jewish.  But this is – you know, if this is an accident,

that his campaign has tweeted this material out multiple times, it is

willful negligence, I would say.  They have done this again and again. 

Clearly the alt-right seized this as a signal.  David Duke said there`s no

other way one can read this tweet, except as, you know, pointing out that

the Jews are controlling everything and it`s deliberately anti-Semitic.

 

So, you know, I think it`s giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt

to say, oh, yeah, this is one degree removed, this was meaningless.

 

HAYES:  Then you have Jared Kushner who is, of course, his son-in-law, who

is Ivanka`s

husband.  Ivanka has converted to judaism.  You know, an employee of his

own media organization writing an open letter saying, you need to condemn

this.  And him saying, basically, he`s a great guy and of course he`s not

anti-Semitic.

 

RAMPELL:  And he said – the other interesting thing about all of that was

taht Jared Kushner when he responded to this, said my father-in-law has an

open heart and I know he loves the Jews and blah, blah, blah, but he said

that the campaign was kind of playing fast and loose with Twitter.  And

kind of implicitly saying there was a mistake was made.  I think he said it

was careless, his campaign was carelessly tweeting things.

 

And trump of course subsequently has gone in the opposite direction and has

said, no, no, no, this was not careless.

 

HAYES:  And he should have left it up there.

 

RAMPELL:  They should have left it up there.

 

HAYES:  All right, we`ll see if we can get through a full week of the Star

of David gate.

 

Catherine RAmpell, thanks for joining us.

 

Coming up, Republican frustrated by the FBIs recommendations of no charges

for Hillary Clinton decide to investigate the investigators.  Didn`t go

exactly as planned.  That story coming up.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

HAYES:  All right, thing one tonight, we`ve come to associate the hashtag

search feature on Twitter with trending news topics.  But there are

hashtags for everything, like say, popular children`s movies, such as

Disney hit Frozen, the beloved film of the over four crowd, including my 4-

year-old daughter.

 

Here`s what that looked like hashtag looked like recently.  Mostly tweets

from automated bots talking Elsa and Anna dolls on eBay, sometimes tweets

like this one from a Frozen themed party.

 

But every children`s movie needs a farcical villain.  That`s where Donald

Trump comes in.

 

As we told you earlier, the presumptive Republican keeps defending his

tweet of a meme, featuring Hillary Clinton, a pile of cash and a six-

pointed Star of David.  For six days, he has not let it go, if you will.

 

Last night, Trump kept the controversy alive by tweeting a picture of a

Frozen-themed coloring book lamenting “where is the outrage for this Disney

book.  Is this the Star of David also?”  Dishonest media #frozen.”

 

Thing two, what happened to the hashtag #Frozen after that Trump tweet in

60 seconds.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

HAYES:  Day six of Trump`s Star of David meme controversy.  And last night,

the presumptive nominee used a children`s coloring book as proof the meme

he tweeted out was not anti-Semitic.

 

“Where is the outrage for this Disney book.  Is this the Star of David

also?  Dishonest media #Frozen.”

 

Twitter being Twitter had a field day of this.  Opinions ranging from

“Don`t you dare  bring Frozen into this.”  To, “I didn`t think we`d hit the

Frozen sticker book phase of the election so soon.”

 

Hillary Clinton to a nod to one of movie`s songs tweeted this in response

to Trump`s tweet, “Do you want to build a Straw man?”

 

Which prompted its own wave of reactions including, “I saw the best minds

of a generation destroyed by having to deal with a presidential nominees

debating the merits of Frozen iconography.”

 

But perhaps the last word on the matter should go to the voice of Anna

herself, actress Kristen

Bell.  She responded to Trump`s tweet this way, “zip it, Don, get your head

out of your ass.  We`ve more

important things to talk about today.  Alton Sterling, Philando Castile.”

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS:  NBC`s Lisa Myers tonight on where Whitewater

stands.

 

LISA MYERS, NBC NEWS:  The surprise appointment sent shockwaves across the

White

House and congress and threw the entire six month Whitewater investigation

into limbo.  Starr, a Reagan Republican, is a former federal appeals judge

and served as George Bush`s solicitor general.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  22 years ago this summer, NBC Nightly News reported on Kenneth

Starr`s appointment to the newly reinstituted post of independent counsel,

charged with investigating the Clintons` Whitewater scandal.

 

Now, someone else had been expected  to get the job, a lawyer named Robert

Fisk, who had been picked by Attorney General Janet Reno earlier that year

to start the inquiry into Whitewater, which is a failed real estate deal

that lost money for Bill and Hillary Clinton.

 

After six months, Fisk released a report finding no evidence of wrongdoing

by the Clintons.  Zilch.  And that is when the Clinton scandal industrial

complex shifted into gear.  Republicans in congress were unsatisfied,

insisting Fisk, a Republican, couldn`t be independent because he was

appointed by the attorney general who was appointed by Bill Clinton, who

was the subject of the probe.

 

A panel of judges agreed with that logic.  And in August 1994, they chose

Ken Starr to take

over as the new independent counsel.

 

And over the next six years, Starr`s investigations would take him from

Whitewater, which

wasn`t going anywhere, to travelgate, which petered out, to filegate, and

don`t worry, basically

no one outside professional politics even remembers what originally sparked

these bogus scandals.

 

And ultimately through a few more roundabouts and back roads to Monica

Lewinsky, which lead to President Clinton`s impeachment for perjury and

obstruction of justice.  And, let me stress, had nothing whatsoever to do

with the original probe into Waterwater where this all started.

 

That probe wasn`t closed until just before Clinton left office.

 

After the impeachment hearnigs were long over, Ken Starr had already left

the independent counsels office, and just like the initial report six years

earlier it came up completely empty, meaning both Clintons were exonerated

of wrongdoing for Whitewater.

 

In totally unrelated news, a week after an eighth congressional committee

on Benghazi released its findings still unable to incriminate Hillary

Clinton, today the House oversight committee called FBI Director James

Comey who actually served as Ken Starr`s deputy back in the 90s to testify

about his recommendation not to charge Clinton over her emails.

 

There were a couple of ways Republicans could have gone with this: they

could hammer on the discrepancies between the FBI`s findings and Clinton`s

public account of how she handled her emails as Congressman Trey Gowdy

tried to do.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

REP. TREY GOWDY, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA:  Secretary Clinton said she never sent

or received any classified information over her private email, was that

true?

 

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR:  Our investigation found there was classified

information sent…

 

GOWDY:  So it was not true?

 

COMEY:  That`s what I said.

 

GOWDY:  Secretary Clinton said, I did not email any classified material to

anyone on my email.  There is no classified material.  Was that true?

 

COMEY:  No, there was classified mAterial email.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  Or they could grandstand and make a mess of trying to undermine the

witness because they can`t help themselves.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I`ll be at a couple of cafes where I see folks and

meetings and they`re going to ask questions about what took place.  Have

you seen the Broadway production Hamilton?

 

COMEY:  Not yet.  I`m hoping to.

 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE;  I haven`t either, but I understand that it won

choreography Tony Award.

 

The problem I have in explaining to my constituents is what`s come down, it

almost looks like a

choreography. 

 

My folks think that there`s something fishy about this.  I`m not a

conspiracy theorist, but there are a lot of questions on how this came

down.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

HAYES:  Still ahead, in the wake of two police shooting deaths in just 48

hours, there are protests happening at this hour around the country. 

Tonight people gathering in numerous cities.  The latest on that next.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

HAYES:  So, we`ve been watching these protests happening all over the

country tonight after the latest shooting by police of a black man, the

second in just two days.  Joining me now, Joan Walsh, MSNBC political

analyst, national affairs correspondent of The Nation.  Back with me Maya

Wiley, who is about to become the chair of the (inaudible) complaint review

board that oversees the New York City Police, and a former counsel to the

Mayor Bill de Blasio here in New York.

 

Joan, let me start with you on this question.  The president talked today

about – just put yourself in the shoes of someone who lost a family member

this way.  Try to think of it that way, try to be empathetic, try not to

get into the usual battle lines.

 

JOAN WALSH, THE NATION MAGAZINE:  That`s right.  Red, blue.

 

HAYES:  Yeah, because you see it.  I mean knew immediately well what was –

was he complying, did he have a – you know, all this desire to justify

that you see that I actually don`t really understand, frankly.

 

Do you think the politics of this are moving?

 

WALSH:  I think the politics are moving.  I think it was great that

Governor Dayton came out today and just flat out said very early in his

statement, yes, I think it was racism.  Yes, I think he

would be alive and this wouldn`t have happened in front of his girlfriend

and her daughter if he were white.  That was a big progress.

 

On the other hand it`s sad to me that the president even has to tell us,

use your empathy, people, meaning white people, because it has become this

thing where I can predict your reaction to a police shooting, more or less

by your party, and especially if you support Donald Trump.

 

So we`re making progress, Black Lives Matter is probably the most vital,

potent movement that

we`ve seen.  I got caught in the demonstration on my way here, and happy to

see it.  So we`ve made a lot of progress and yet people are not being

prosecuted and people are still being killed in cold blood.

 

HAYES:  And yet in the case one of the things that I think complicates the

politics, particulaly in the case in both of these men, they were both

armed, but they were carrying for the purposes that the people who advocate

the most maximum interpretation second rights say they should be able to –

to

protect themselves.

 

In the case of Mr. Castile, legally and with a permit and advising the

officer.

 

WALSH:  That he had them.

 

HAYES:  So, my question today is, deafening silence from the NRA.

 

WILEY:  And add to that deeply troubling irony that the NRA actually made

the argumentthat black people should be anti-gun control because of the

amount of gun violence in black communities.

 

So this actually stands in a palpable and emotional opposition to that very

argument.

 

HAYES:  Right, because they made the argument because – that the only way

you can defend yourself…

 

WILEY:  …is with a firearm.

 

HAYES:  …is with a firearm.

 

And yet of course when a police encounters a firearm, then you are a

threat.  And these two men have been killed punitively because they were

armed.

 

WILEY:  And what`s critically important here is the notion of implicit

bias, which we talked about and actually the president referred to in his

speech, which is that we have to take into account, as we think about

improving policing in this country, the way in which sometimes even

unconscious racial stereotypes impact the decisions police officers may

make in a split second and how they interpret the information that they are

getting.

 

And it`s deeply troubling.  It is also very different how you respond to

that kind of problem, that over racism.  They`re both important to respond

to and cannot be tolerated, but they`re dealt with differently.  And I`m

proud of the fact that the NYPD has implicit bias training that it`s

instituting now.

 

HAYES:  Those NYPD right now out on the streets with protesters who have

taken over part of Times Square.  There were some arrests. 

 

The thing that I keep thinking about – and we`re talking about this

empathy is that last night, I came home and I saw the video and I didn`t

know the outcome, and I was praying, like he was kin, that he would live,

like he was kin.  I was so, please, tell me this man lived – and I – at

the same time, it`s like the videos can be dehumanizing and exploitative,

but there is power in them, I have to say politically I think at this

moment.

 

WALSH:  I think so too.  And I have to say that we know that two young

children, a 15-year-old boy and a 4-year-old girl have witnessed these, or

at least in the case of the video, have seen these men murdered in cold

blood.  I mean, that – just watching yesterday the sun crying, just you

know, destroyed.

 

WILEY:  And the 4-year-old having to tell her mother that, in fact…

 

HAYES:  I`m here for you.

 

WILEY:  And heard that her father was dead.

 

HAYES:  Right.

 

Maya Wiley and Joan Walsh.

 

That is All In for this evening.

 

 

 

 

 

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY

BE UPDATED.

END   

 

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