All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 3/14/2016

Katie Packer, Jeb Lund, Sherrod Brown, Tina Turner, McKay Coppins, Michael Mayo

Date: March 14, 2016
Guest: Katie Packer, Jeb Lund, Sherrod Brown, Tina Turner, McKay Coppins,
Michael Mayo


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN –

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We`re going to take our country
back from these people.

HAYES: Dark campaign gets even darker.

The Republican frontrunner now thinking about paying a violent supporter`s
legal bills.

TRUMP: I actually instructed my people to look into it.

HAYES: Tonight, the fact and fiction about violence and the Trump

TRUMP: There`s no violence.

HAYES: As the stop Trump movement throws the kitchen sink –

needs to vote for.

HAYES: And the front runner calls in backup.

little thuggery stuff that`s been going on.

HAYES: And as Democrats dual in Ohio and Florida and beyond, how both
candidates are now forced to deal with a reality of a Trump nomination.

pathological liar.

violence which is what Trump is doing in those clips, there`s a lot of
memories that people have.

HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from Miami, Florida. I`m Chris Hayes, here in one of
the five states where voters will head to the polls tomorrow on a
potentially decisive day that may well put Donald Trump on a glide path to
the GOP presidential nomination.

Florida is the biggest prize tomorrow for the Republicans, a winner-take-
all state with 99 delegates up for grabs. Polls show Trump currently with
an average 19-point lead over Florida Senator Marco Rubio, who desperately
needs a somewhat magical upset at this point in his home state.

With the total of 367 delegates total up for grabs, tomorrow marks perhaps
the most important Election Day so far. One that could either establish
Trump as the presumptive GOP nominee, or set up a long slog to contested
and likely chaotic nominating convention in Cleveland in July.

That is what is on the ballast tomorrow, the possible point of no return on
Donald Trump as a major party presidential nominee. The stakes have only
gotten higher over the past 72 hours, as we have witnessed in real-time the
unraveling of long-standing and established norms against mob violence as a
routine part of the American democratic political process.

And watch as Trump has continued to count and times openly encourage his
supporters to engage in violence against protesters. A group that Trump
supporter Sarah Palin today dismissed to wild cheers at a Trump rally in


PALIN: What we don`t have time for is all that petty punk ass little
thuggery stuff that`s been going on with these, quote/unquote,


HAYES: Just a short time ago, Trump wrapped up a rally in Youngstown,
Ohio, another GOP winner-take-all state voting tomorrow where he mocked
John Kasich for being an absentee governor before taking a shot at the man
who introduced him it at the rally, Chris Christie, who was sitting right


TRUMP: Your governor is absentee. He goes – listen to this, because I
know, because I was there. But I go back and I still work. I have a job,
right? You`ve got to do your job. So, your governor, Kasich, if you look
at him – and I`m being totally impartial. He goes to New Hampshire, he`s
living in New Hampshire. Living.

Where is Chris? Is Chris around? Even more than Chris Christie, he was
there. Chris, right? Even more. I hated to do that. But I had to make
my point.


HAYES: The sights and sounds coming out of Trump when violence broke out
between Trump supporters and protesters after Trump cancelled a Chicago
rally after it was set to begin had been truly astounding.

In Hickory, North Carolina, today, Confederate flag emblazoned with the
words, “Make America great again.” In Cleveland, on Saturday, a Trump
backer using a Nazi salute and saying, quote, “go back to Auschwitz”.

And in virtually every Trump, intense exchanges between Trump protesters
and supporters.


CROWD: Build that wall, build that wall, build that wall!


HAYES: In this campaign, Trump called on his supporters to, quote, “knock
the crap out of protesters and said he wanted to punch one in the face.
He`s repeatedly pined for the supposed good old days when political
protesters were, quote, “carried out on a stretcher”.


TRUMP: Honestly, protesters – they realize it. They realize that there
are no consequences to protesting anymore. There used to be consequences.
There are none any more.


HAYES: Last week, a protester at a Trump rally was violently smashed in
the face by an apparent Trump supporter and eventually that supporter was
arrested. Yesterday, Trump claimed he doesn`t condone violence, but then
defended the man who threw that sucker punch.


TRUMP: The man got carried away.


TRUMP: He was 78 years old. He obviously loves this country. And maybe
he doesn`t like seeing what`s happening to the country. I want to see the
full tape.

TODD: So you don`t pay for his legal fees.

TRUMP: I don`t – well, I`m going to look at it. I`m going to see what
was behind this, because it was a strange event. But from what I heard,
there was a – you know, there was a lot of taunting and a certain finger
was placed in the air. Not nice.


HAYES: I just want to take a moment to let that statement sink in. That
he is looking into paying legal fees of the man who elbow-smashed a
nonviolent protester in the face and that the man who threw that sucker
punch into another man`s face, quote, “obviously loves his country”.

Today, the Cumberland County Sheriff`s Office in North Carolina said it was
investigating if there was a connection between Trump`s conduct and the
assault that took place, raising the possibility at one point of charging
Trump with inciting a riot. In a statement, a Trump campaign said the
candidate had done nothing wrong. And late tonight, a sheriff announced it
would not charge Trump.

At a campaign rally today, Ted Cruz responded to a pro-Trump protester, who
yelled, “Go back to Canada,” this way.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will be respectful. See,
sir, one difference between this and a Donald Trump rally. I`m not asking
anyone to punch you in the face.


HAYES: John Kasich, meanwhile, taking to passing out literature telling
people to, quote, “fight the darkness”.

With the anti-Trump movement on the right, tomorrow could mark Armageddon
and they`re making their last stand for what could be the first stand in a
long slog through the spring and summer months. In part, through a pair of
new anti Trump ads from the Our Principles PAC, spotlighting campaign rally
violence and Trump`s comments on women.





UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Real quotes from Donald Trump, about women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A person who is very flat-chested is very hard to be
a 10.


HAYES: Joining me now, MSNBC political analyst, Michael Steele, former
chair of the Republican National Committee, and Katie Packer, former deputy
campaign manager from Mitt Romney`s presidential campaign and founders of
the Our Principles PAC which released that ad you just saw.

And, Katie, let me start with you. I think both ads are very well-done,
very effective. But it feels a little like why are we seeing this now? I
was going through the quotes that are in the women ad, and a lot of those
quotes were around years ago or months ago. Is – is this too little, too

KATIE PACKER, OUR PRINCIPLES PAC: Well, we`ll see tomorrow. The goal of
Our Principles PAC has always been to share information, ultimately, the
voters have to decide. And the voters are going to have to decide whether
or not on one hand Donald Trump is a candidate that has the kind of
character and temperament, you know, as he incites this kind of aggressive
behavior in his rallies. And number two, if this is a guy that you want to
have as our commander-in-chief and the president of our country when he I`m
humiliates and demeans and said himself that you have to treat women like
crap, to use a more PG-rated word.

This is how he treats women. He shows them total disdain and disrespect,
unless they`re a super model or somehow enrich him financially. And I
think that it`s important information at whatever point it comes. And
hopefully, people will pay attention tomorrow.

HAYES: Michael, I think I like a lot of Americans watching the last 72
hours or four days play out have been pretty disturbed by what feels like
something being cultivated and stoked and the flames being fanned in a way
that`s not going to a good place. I mean, what is your reaction to
watching what looks to be someone genuinely channeling mob rage in a way
that it`s been a long time since we`ve seen in American politics?

MICHAEL STEELE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Utterly disappointed. Very, very
concerned about how we project this party to the American people in a
general campaign, let alone a primary. But, you know, certainly in a
general campaign. I think that the Trump team has to take stock.

I mean, I get it. I understand it. It`s, you know, a lot of bloviating, a
lot of hot air and noise and saber rattling.

But at the end of the day, you`ve got to turn the corner and demonstrate
presidential prowess and mind-set that gives comfort to the American
people, to let them know that, you know, of all the people in the room to
have a hot temper, it shouldn`t be you. And so, I think that that is
something that we`re going to have to see play out. I doubt that it will,
because it`s working right now. And that`s unfortunate.

It says a lot about where I think the American people find themselves right
now, Chris. And as they channel a lot of this anger and frustration, and
where our political process is, particularly on the Republican side, which,
you know, causes other Republicans now to look at this and go, we cannot
support the nominee, potential nominee of the party. I think that`s a very
tough and dangerous spot for the party to be in, longer-term.

HAYES: I mean, he has been – he`s been sort of crossing boundaries from
the day into the race and each boundary – new boundary, some segment of
people say this is it. And Rubicon after Rubicon after Rubicon sort of
gleefully leapt over. I mean, I guess, Katie, to you, like, is there a
point of no return? Has it been crossed? At what point is there a point
of no return such the point that people like yourself, people that are the
core, the institutional makeup of the Republican Party say we`ll do
everything we can to make sure this guy is defeated all the way through

PACKER: Well, he crossed that line for me months ago. I`ve been very
clear on the fact that this is not a candidate that I could ever support.

But the important thing is not – this isn`t about me. 35 percent of
Republican voters have said that they could never vote for Trump in a
general election. That`s according to a CNN poll that`s a pretty
unsustainable number for a Republican candidate going into the fall.

Usually, Republican candidates get upwards of 90 percent. Democrat
candidates upwards of 90 percent of voters in their own party. Thirty-five
percent – even if it`s half that, 17.5 percent would be catastrophic for
the Republican Party.

HAYES: Right.

PACKER: So, basically the choice people are making when they choose Trump
is not only to lose the White House in the fall, but it`s a question of how
many down-ballot Republicans does he take with him?


HAYES: Michael –

STEELE: Go ahead.

HAYES: Yes, please.

STEELE: I don`t know if I subscribe to all of that. You know, the down
ballots. We`re not losing the House of Representatives, regardless of who
the nominee of the party is, number one. So I`ve heard some Republicans –

PACKER: Very optimistic.

STEELE: No, the numbers – Katie, come on. That`s not happening. So
let`s be honest.

The Senate is much more in play, because the margin is much smaller there.
The five or six seats the Democrats need to flip the Senate. That`s a
problem for those red senators in blue states like New Hampshire and
Wisconsin, for example.

But I think longer-term, the party is really going to have to come to grips
with where we are and who we are, beyond Donald Trump. And that`s
something that`s not being settled right now. And whether it`s Cruz or
anyone else, it`s going to be an issue downstream.

PACKER: Chris, can I just add there? If we lose the Senate, we lose the
ability to block any Supreme Court appointment of Hillary Clinton. So that
in and of itself, I totally disagree with Michael Steele. You know, the
ramifications are endless.

HAYES: I`m going to take that up with my next guest, actually. Michael
Steele and Katie Packer, thank you for your time tonight.

Joining me now is Jeb Lund, columnist for “The Guardian” and “Rolling
Stone”, probably most famous for the remarkable series of book reviews
you`ve done for us, the candidate, book reviews you`ve done.

I want to play this idea of him as the face of the party, particularly at
this moment, right? One of the things I think is being lost is, he seems
to be defying political gravity, because no matter what he does, there`s no
such thing as bad press. But if you`re looking at the actually polling,
his net unfavorables among the broader electorate keep getting worse and
worse. Like, at a certain point, people actually don`t like this.

Here`s a new DSCC ad that`s tying him to a Senate campaign. Take a listen.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think we`re going to make America great
again, right?

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R), WISCONSIN: I`ll support the Republican nominee.

SEN. KELLY AYOTTE (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: I plan to support the Republican

SEN. RICHARD BURR (R), NORTH CAROLINA: I will support the nominee,
regardless of who it is.


HAYES: Do you buy the catastrophe scenario that some of the Republican
anti-Trump forces are talking about now?

JEB LUND, ROLLING STONE: Well, I think historically, you`ve seen with the
landslide election with McGovern and Nixon, McGovern gets defeated whole
hog and then the Democratic Party was fine. I think historically, the
Republican Party can come out of this all right.

In terms of winning a general – presidential election, they`re going to
have to decide whether they want to lose one or they want to lose two,
because I don`t think that Trump is some metastasis of this sort of
conservative thinking. I think he`s kind of a really grand-standing

I mean, the idea of building a wall and punching illegals, you have the
Minutemen, who were cheerleaded by members of Congress. These are guys who
are yahoos and technicals just patrolling the border with guns and they
have been celebrated.

Or you have Joe Arpaio, who`s basically our version of the Bavarian gull
rider, just like running his little weird thiefdom that punishes people,
and he`s been celebrated. How many people has he endorsed?

HAYES: Right.

JEB: So, do you want – you know, you can go ahead and condemn Trumpism.
But you`re going to have to do something about the fertile field that grew

HAYES: Well, and that I think is his moment. I mean, you`re seeing this
sort of crazy thing happening on the right, right now, right, where even
Breitbart, which has been the most sort of pro-Trump outlet, has basically
exploded in the last few days over the allegation that a campaign manager
grabbed one of the reporters violently and left bruises on her arm and
people have resigned.

All these fissures are now just sort of erupting out in the open. You`re
wondering like, what is this building towards, right? Is this going to be
some moment of some actual self reflection?

LUND: Well, there`s that and then the easy option is going to be, well, we
didn`t run a true conservative, which was the 2012, 2008 storyline.

And Trump is not a true conservative. He`s got a lot of apostates for

HAYES: Right.

LUND: And so, you know, you can go ahead and run him and lose and then
you`ll go ahead and run somebody like Ted Cruz next time who might downplay
some of that kind of divisive and punishing rhetoric and make it more
palatable. And Cruz already does that. He just basically lards it with a
layer of smarm. But I don`t think it`s going to ultimately long-term,
demographically, it`s not going to be a winning strategy.

HAYES: You`re a Floridian. We`re in Florida now. Rubio I mean,
basically, people are – someone described an event today here in West Palm
Beach as like elegiac basically, it`s like attending a live wake for a man.
He`s done here.

LUND: I think so. I have gone to a couple different rallies, Trump and
Cruz and asked people if they even considered Rubio. And they were done
months ago. Whether it was the immigration thing or actually funnily
enough, didn`t really hurt him when he was running here for Senate, his

But the fact that Jeb Bush brought it up, Ted Cruz brought it up, Donald
Trump brought it up. You know, why would I elect you to the most important
job in the world when I gave you –

HAYES: We do not give you one.

LUND: Yes, we gave you one and you didn`t do it.

HAYES: All right. Jeb Lund, great to see you in person, man. Thanks so
much for joining me.

Still ahead, the elephant as it were in the Democratic race, how Hillary
Clinton and Bernie Sanders are addressing the encroaching Donald Trump.

Plus, what really happened in Chicago, comparing the story as told by the
Trump campaign to the actual sequence of events as we know them.

And later, a preview of tomorrow night`s Super Tuesday. Does Bernie
Sanders have another upset waiting for him? Is it still possible to deny
Trump the nomination? We will look at that, and more, just ahead.


HAYES: If you`ve been looking for a little preview what have a general
election against Donald Trump might look like, what arguments the
Democratic nominee might marshal against him, the president on Friday gave
us a nice little preview. Speaking to Democrats in Texas, President Obama
touted the many successes of his administration, and then he turned his
attention squarely to Donald Trump.


would say if he actually had a record like this.


Instead of – instead of selling steaks.


Has anybody tried that wine? How good can that wine be? I`m sorry. Where
was I?

You`ve got all these candidates on the other side tripping all over
themselves to talk down the economy when it is the bright spot in the world

So here`s the truth. Look it up. America is pretty darn great right now!
America is moving forward right now. The American people should be proud
of what we achieved together right now.



HAYES: Up next, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders make their case against
what is happening in this country right now on the right.

Stay with us.


HAYES: The past few days, Donald Trump has ventured into some parts of the
country that are traditionally Democratic strongholds. And it`s giving us
a preview of what a general election with him as a nominee could look like.
After disturbing scenes and fisticuffs and shoving matches erupted after he
cancelled a rally in Chicago Friday night, both candidates have intensified
their criticism of and focus on Trump`s possible candidacy.

Today, Clinton accused Donald Trump of citing mob violence in ways that are
reminiscent of an earlier, darker time.


CLINTON: When you are inciting mob violence, which is what Trump is doing
in those clips, there`s a lot of memories that people have. You know,
they`re in the DNA. People remember mob violence that led to lynching.
People remember mob violence that led to people being shot, being, you
know, grabbed, being mistreated.


HAYES: Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders has funded forcefully to Trump`s
accusations he himself was involved in protests to shut down the Trump
Chicago rally.


SANDERS: There was zero effort on the part of our campaign to organize any
disruption at Trump`s campaign. I`ve got to say this. And, you know, if
you know me, I`ve never run a negative TV ad in my life. We respect our
opponents. People in Vermont know that. And I know Marco Rubio and I know
Ted Cruz. And all these guys.

But with Trump, what you are dealing with – and I say this without any joy
– this guy is a pathological liar.


HAYES: Tonight, with less than 24 hours until polls close in Ohio, Sanders
and Clinton are making their final arguments to Democratic voters in the
still contested race. With Bernie Sanders stunning upset in Michigan,
fresh in everyone`s memory, and polling in Ohio, showing Hillary Clinton up
eight points over Sanders, a full 13 points less than her lead on the eve
of voting in Michigan, tomorrow night may still have some more surprises in

Joining me now, Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio, who has endorsed
Hillary Clinton for president.

And, Senator, earlier today, with my colleague, Chris Matthews, Hillary
Clinton said of Sanders about his approach to trade deals that basically,
he`s against everything with international implications, even before
they`re done. Is that fair?

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: Well, yes, I don`t – yes, it`s fair. It`s
fair, but so am I. I`ve been against these trade agreements too.

But I think the issue is, what are we doing to try to change our trade
policy? And, you know, I – Hillary has very specifically laid out a much
more detailed, in-depth manufacturing plan, what to do about trade, with
their special trade prosecutor on currency, on issues like nonmarket
economy, what to do about designation there with China. And I just think
there is a depth of understanding. And I`ve worked with Hillary in some of
the plans on this.

And I – Bernie has been against and I applaud him for that and stood with
him as we did that. But I don`t know that I`ve seen him, and I`m not
really being critical of him and I don`t want to be, because I don`t think
that`s what this race is about.

But I want to look forward on how we put together a trade policy that
works, because we`re going to trade. There is going to be globalization,
but we need to do it under terms – under rules that work as rules work for
our domestic economy on the dynamic of capitalism. You need to do trade in
the same way. And I think Hillary Clinton understands that. And that`s
why I like the direction she wants to take us in.

HAYES: Well, let me – I`m going to – present to you a cynical case. And
you tell me why I`m wrong.

Democratic politicians come to Ohio every election, every four years, and
they critique trade deals. I remember in 2008, the primary, Barack Obama
was attacking Hillary Clinton from her left on trade as a supporter of
NAFTA. He gets elected president. He`s now passing the TPP. They say
it`s much better and has stronger safeguards than NAFTA ever did.

But the cynical view is basically, in the week before the Ohio primary,
everybody gets religion on trade deals, and then as soon as they become
president, they push for more.

BROWN: Yes. I hear that cynicism. I kind of shared that back in 2008.
When I heard both candidates then say something that I wasn`t really
convinced of.

But I`ve seen something different. First of all, I`ve seen the input she
has welcomed. She has let me and worked with me in helping formulate trade
policy. I think the world is different. And I think Secretary Clinton
knows that.

I see all four presidential candidates, the leading four, Cruz and Trump
and Sanders and Clinton, all oppose TPP.

And Hillary can recite chapter and verse about what`s wrong with it and how
to fix it. And I will be standing with her as she does that when I`m
chairman of the banking committee in 2009 – 2017 and sit on the finance
committee that works on trade deals. And I think we`ll see a very
different trade policy, a very different tax policy.

No more this whole business plan that has become the way companies do
things now. You shut down production in Mansfield, Ohio, and Sandusky,
Ohio, move it to China, sell products back into the U.S. that doesn`t work
for the country – our country any more. I think Hillary Clinton has an
acute understanding of that and how you fix it.

HAYES: All right. Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio, always a pleasure.
Thank you for joining me.

BROWN: My pleasure too. Thank you.

HAYES: Joining me now, another Ohioan, Nina Turner, former Ohio state
senator, who has endorsed Bernie Sanders for president.

Nina, I`ve been hearing from a lot of Sanders people increasingly as the
Trump phenomenon has sort of gained force and as people now really expect
him to be the nominee that Sanders is in a better position to take him on
in the general election. Do you believe that`s the case?

Sanders – the emotions that we see coming from the American people,
whether they`re on the left or the right, they`re tired of the status quo.
They`re tired of business, as usual.

And Senator Sanders has stood up strongly to say enough is enough. We`re
going to do things differently in this country. And we`re going to make
sure that the working poor and middle class are at the center of the

We know that all of the national polls – and I know people are going to
say it`s too early to look at those polls, show that Senator Sanders is by
far the best Democratic candidate to go head-to-head with Mr. Trump. He is
tapping into a raw emotion, as well, Chris. But he`s doing it in a
positive way.

HAYES: But here`s my question to you. How – I mean, I hear this from
Sanders` supporters. Here`s my question. How do you possibly win a change
election when you are going to be the Democratic nominee following two
turns of Barack Obama?

The idea of we`re going to finally for the first time do something right
when you are going to be the person running after Barack Obama – that just
seems like that`s going to be a very, very tough sell, and if people want
change, they`re not going to go for a Democrat.

TURNER: Well, Chris, you build on the good things that the president has
done under enormous pressure and obstruction from the Republicans.

But what Senator Sanders is saying is that $15 an hour – people deserve a
living wage, universal health care as a right in this country. Tuition-
free college for every child in this country so that they don`t graduate
with a debt in one hand and a degree in the other. He is acknowledging
pain and challenges that Americans are feeling but also taking it a step
further to say that we together can change this and make this better.

So, I believe fully that Senator Sanders has the right message to go head-
to-head with Mr. Trump.

HAYES: There`s a real concern also that – I mean, unlike Hillary Clinton,
who has been through probably more scrutiny than almost any public figure
in American life – I think it would almost be fair to say – that Sanders
basically is an unknown to so many people and essentially right now his
positive approval ratings, which are quite positive, are just a sort of
byproduct. And when he starts getting attacked, that`s going to plummet.

TURNER: I don`t agree with that, Chris. I think that`s just a copout from
people who don`t want to see him in the general election.

Let us not forget, the secretary has not been in a general election either.
Understand that she has not been in a general election.

Senator Sanders will continue to run this race, and he will be a great
general election candidate. He will be able to handle whatever they try to
throw at him, because he is running for the heart and soul of this country,
to lift the working class and the middle class people in this country, to
deal with a rigged economy and a rigged political system, enough is enough.
And American people feel the same way. He will be just fine in the general

HAYES: All right. Nina Turner, thanks so much for joining me. Appreciate

TURNER: Thanks, Chris.

HAYES: Up next, there is a lot of misinformation going around about what
exactly led up to Donald Trump canceling his rally in Chicago. And I think
it`s important to set that record straight. And we`re going to do that,
just after the break. Don`t go anywhere.



TRUMP: Rather than fighting in Chicago, I did something that was a good
move, a good decision, because I don`t want to see anybody be hurt. And
what happened is – and we`ve been given so much credit for that decision,
nobody hurt, nobody – no problem. Went away.


HAYES: Not only is Donald Trump refusing to call for calm or did denounce
his supporters who engage in thuggish violence, but he`s been telling a
distorted story about what happened at his Chicago rally on Friday night
taking credit for diffusing a tense situation with his decision to cancel
at the last minute.

Now, there clearly was fighting inside the arena. People did get hurt.
Whatever problems there were between protesters and Trump supporters did
not go away with the campaign`s announcement. In fact, and this is
important, it was more like the opposite. Various media outlets reported
that Trump canceled only after clashes broke out in the venue. Note the
Fox News banner, “violent protesters force Trump campaign to cancel rally.”

Even The New York Times headline, Donald Trump`s rally in Chicago canceled
after violent scuffles.

But from several eyewitness accounts and MSNBC`s own tape of the rally,
that does not appear to have been the chain of events.

First of all, while Trump statement said he made the decision after, quote,
meeting with law enforcement, the Chicago police department told the
Washington Post they had no role, were not consulted or provided an
opinion. And the police at the University of Illinois where the rally was
being held, likewise confirmed
they were not consulted.

And though it`s clear, there was a huge number of protesters inside that
event, by some estimates as much as a third of all the attendees, things
to have been fairly calm in the arena, if a bit tense, right up until the
cancellation itself was announced.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight`s rally will be postponed until another day.
Thank you very much for your attendance and please go in peace.


HAYES: Go in peace. That was obviously not what happened.

With that announcement, the tensions between supporters and protesters
seemed to break loose. And the rest of the nation saw the results.

In other words, it wasn`t that there was violence in the venue which caused
Trump to cancel the rally, but rather, that Trump canceling the rally
precipitated violence in the venue.

Keep in mind, that this kind of violence only occurs at Trump rallies, a
fact that Trump himself seems to regard as a badge of honor.

Coming up next, an inside look at the climate of rage and intimidation at
Donald Trump`s campaign events.


HAYES: There`s a bit of a scary moment at a Trump rally in Dayton, Ohio on
Saturday when a man jumped the barricade and tried to rush the stage. He
was quickly tackled by secret service and taken into custody. He was not
armed and said he just planned to yell that Trump was a racist.

The really scary part was how Trump supporters at the event reacted.
Listen carefully to the voices yelling in the crowd.

HAYES: Kick his ass. Kill him. A bunch of stuff we had to bleep out.
And that kind of thing is not just reserved for protesters who actually
disrupt Trump`s campaign events, MSNBC`s Tony Dokoupil recorded the
following scene outside a Trump
rally on Saturday.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go back to Africa.

If you`re an African first, go back to Africa. If you`re an African first,
go back to Africa.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black lives don`t matter to other inner city blacks.



HAYES: And there`s this video taken outside what appears to be the same




HAYES: Go to Auschwitz. Go back to f`ing Auschwitz. And it`s all just
the evidence that Trump events are often dangerous places to be at the
center or merely someone the campaign doesn`t like.

Just wearing a hijab and a t-shirt reading literally Salaam, I come in
peace, can get you harassed and kicked out as we saw at a rally in South
Carolina back in January, as can just being part of a group of black
students, like the ones who were ejected from another rally in Georgia late
last month, who never protested.

At a Trump event last night here in Florida in Boca Raton, a Sun Sentinel
columnist wearing his work ID badge, but attending as a private citizen was
kicked out he says simply for recording video on his phone.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a public park.

UNIDENITIFIED MALE: It is not a public park.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight it is rented by the Donald Trump campaign and
they are the ones who say can come and go. Okay? So…

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So my options are either going now or what?

UNIDENITIFIED MALE: At this point, going out or going to jail.


HAYES: The man was kicked out of that Trump rally last night joins me now,
Michael Mayo, columnist for the South Florida Sun Sentinel.

So, take me through this. You went to the event – general attendee.

MICHAEL MAYO, SUN SENTINEL: Yeah, what happens when we got notified that
there was going to be this event, there was a website link, it`s called, where you register to attend as a general person, general
public. I provided all my information accurately. I got this ticket on my
phone. And then I showed up at the event. And there was no rules or
attachment – any guidelines
attached to that ticket saying you can`t do this, or they didn`t ask me
about – if I was a newspaper person.

I just showed up, went through the metal detectors like everybody else and
was roaming around the crowd. And actually, the crowd – everybody in the
general admission crowd was using their phones to take photos and videos
and was encouraged to post to social media by the campaign people. In the
warmup rallies, they even gave a special hashtag for the event.

So they`re encouraging everyone to use their phones, to social media tweet,
Facebook and I did the same.

HAYES: Right. But at these events, they have a rule that press can`t
circulate and talk to supporters. They keep them in what`s called a press
pen where they bound in. We saw one guy get clocked by secret service when
he tried to
leave it, right?

MAYO: Right.

HAYES: So they come up to you, they see your press badge and what do they

MAYO: Well, yeah, that`s the thing. I wasn`t in the pen, I didn`t ask for
a media credential. In my mind, I didn`t need it, because I wasn`t there
on deadline, I didn`t have a computer. And when the – a Trump campaign
operative, who wouldn`t fully identify himself, just called himself
“Justin,” wouldn`t give me his title. I gave him my card. I told him who
I was. And basically said I that couldn`t do what I was doing and that I
would have to leave.

And, you know, I`ve been a journalist 30 years, sports writer a long time,
news side for the last 14 years and I have never encountered a situation
like that where basically just for the act of being and doing what
everybody else was doing in the general crowd, I was basically given an
ultimatum of leaving or getting arrested.

HAYES: Or being arrested. I mean, that`s the other part of this. And
I`ve seen this now at several events. They essentially instruct the law
enforcement that this is now private property and a private event in which
they say who can come and go. It`s not a private event. It`s a private
event, and that`s the word law enforcement will use to people, whether it`s
just a group of black people who happen to be there, that are then told
this is a private event and you can`t come here and law enforcement is
going to take you out or it`s someone with a press badge.

MAYO: Well, here`s the surprising thing. I mean, I was under the
impression that the first amendment applies, especially when it`s kind of a
mass public setting, where the public is invited in. But I talked to some
constitutional lawyers today, and I was a little surprised that right now,
Donald J. Trump is considered a private entity, and he is allowed to
control who comes and goes. The analogy I heard was like it`s like a
birthday party. I got an invitation. I was allowed in and then for
whatever reason they want, they kicked me out.

HAYES: And this is the thing they say about all their events. But what
you have is you end up is that you end up with the people who are paid law
enforcement of the state enforcing whatever private whims of…

MAYO: Exactly.

HAYES: Of this campaign, whether that means, profiling people based on the
way they look or not wanting people to talk to their supporters, and just
to be clear, that doesn`t happen at other campaign events.


And I covered a Marco Rubio rally two weeks ago down here in Miami exactly
the same way I did this one. I had no hassles, no problems.

HAYES: No, this is what you do. You go to campaign events if you`re a
reporter and you talk to people. That`s what you do.

Michael Mayo, thanks for joining us.

MAYO: Thanks for having me.

HAYES: Coming up, we are on the eve of another Super Tuesday, even
Superer, and the stakes are high for both Democrats and Republicans. An
ALL IN viewers guide what to watch, just ahead.


HAYES: We`re here in Miami, Florida ahead of tomorrow`s primaries. It`s
the home of Marco Rubio, the chairman of the Senate subcommittee on oceans,
atmosphere, fisheries and coast guard. Who, when he was running for senate
in 2009, started raising questions about whether climate change is man
made. “I`m not a scientist. I`m not qualified to make that decision,”
Rubio said.

I`m not a scientist is a refrain repeated by other prominent Republicans,
including Senate majority leader and the current governor of Florida.

Well, since I`m here I wanted to ask an actual climate scientist about his
response to that line. Dr. Ben Kirtman, professor of atmospheric science
at University of Miami, sat down with me earlier.


DR. BEN KIRTMAN, CLIMATOLOGIST: If you`re going to prescribe policy, all I
can say is, I`m willing to give you the best available science. We`ve said
it with Governor Scott, Marco Rubio`s office when the Senator Rubio`s
office a few years ago. We`re willing to provide you the best available
science you should be engaging. To say you`re not a scientist is
abdicating your responsibilities as a politician.

Person on the street, that`s okay, that`s their right. But as a politician
and a decision-maker, that`s not your – you don`t have that right.




ROMNEY: This is the guy that Ohio needs to vote for, America is counting
on you. Let`s do it. Let`s welcome a great governor of a great state,
John Kasich.


HAYES: That was Mitt Romney today, stumping for John Kasich, saying
America is counting on Ohio and at least among the anti-Trump portion of
the Republican Party, he is correct. Because for Trump to win the
nomination outright, collecting 1,237 delegates before the convention,
looks like Ohio is pretty important.

The current delegate count has Trump at 458, an 84 delegate lead on his
next competitor Ted Cruz. As we`ve been saying tonight, the two biggest
prizes tomorrow are right here in Florida and Ohio, because they are winner
take all primaries with 165 delegates at stake between them.

If Donald Trump wins both of those states, he will have amassed enough
delegates so that he would only need to win 53 percent of delegates in the
remaining contests to secure the nomination, an achievable prospect,
especially, if the field winnowed to two candidates.

But that path to victory gets much more difficult if he loses one or both
of these states.

For instance, if Trump only wins Florida, he would need 60 percent of the
remaining delegates. And if he loses both, he would need 70 percent of the
remaining delegates, each of which are pretty steep challenges.

So what are Trump`s chances of winning both states? Right now, polling
shows him with a comfortable lead in Florida with his polling average,
according to Real Clear Politics, at nearly 20 points ahead of Rubio.

Ohio is a much different story. NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll out
yesterday shows Ohio governor John Kasich with a six-point lead over Trump
and a Quinnipiac poll out today shows the race tied between Kasich and

Essentially, it is very close in the Buckeye State. And if Kasich pulls
out a win, it makes it much harder for Trump to secure the nomination
outright, and could pave the way for an unpredictable contested convention
in Cleveland.

We will talk about that, and what to look for tomorrow on the Democratic
side for some late-breaking polling shows an extremely tight race in the
state of Illinois.

We`ll talk about that right after the break.


HAYES: And joining me now, McKay Coppin, senior political writer for
Buzzfeed news, and Joy Reid MSNBC national correspondent. Great to have
you guys down here in Miami.

HAYES: So, there has been this debate in – I just talked about this sort
of Ohio scenario, right. Neck and neck there. Trump moved his event from
Florida to Ohio today. They`re doing an Ohio event. They really want to
win there.

This question of is it better for the anti-Trump forces for John Kasich to
win and deny him the delegates, but then Kasich probably stays in the race.
Or for Kasich to lose so he drops out and you can get to the Cruz/Trump

Sam Wong (ph), who runs who runs modeling on This American Prospect,
basically says in which Rubio drops out and Kasich stays in, may be Trump`s
best option.

That counterintuitively it is worse for Trump to win Ohio since that would
likely cause Kasich to withdraw. In that scenario Trump would be left with
a one-on-one with Cruz. Do you buy that?

MCKAY COPPIN, BUZZFEED: There is a solid case to made. And by the way,
you can see that Trump has tried for months to keep a lot of these
candidates in by sort of like helping them out in attacking others ones
saying, you know, Rubio is right about Ted Cruz lying or Ted Cruz is right
about Rubio doing this.

There is a good case to be made that if – you know, if Ted Cruz – if Ted
Cruz and Trump one-on-one – that Trump would actually do fairly poorly
against him, that because he hasn`t hit 50 percent, Trump in very many
primaries, you`ll see a lot of the Republican rally around Cruz.

That`s – it`s still a stretch. I still think you want as many delegates
away from Trump as possible.

JOY REID, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: And I think because, you know, what could
end up saving the Republican Party is the some of the snobbery of the
Founding Fathers and the early proponents of the system, because the
popular vote does not elect the nominee, or doesn`t choose the nominee.
It`s chosen at the state conventions, it`s chosen by party insiders. So
where the empire can strike back is at the convention. So if that`s your
scenario, that you`re going to deny Trump the nomination by trading
delegates, you want Kasich in. You actually want him there, because you
want him actively horse trading. Because remember Cruz being in means he
could still go back to Iowa and still be messing with who are going to be
the delegates.

COPPIN: And we`ve already seen reports of that happening. Cruz people are
already approaching delegations, and saying, look, when we get to the
second ballot, you better make sure all your people are with us.

HAYES: Yeah, and there`s all this crazy – U.S. Virgin Islands has a crazy
controversy about who the electors they have elected are. I mean, the
other thing is when you think about the 66, it`s like, that 66 – I played
around with delegate calculators more than I care to admit. I guess I just
did on live TV. And it`s very easy to get Trump to like 1150, 1185, that`s

1,237 is like – it`s very problem.

So like 66 might be the difference, right?

REID: Right. And you don`t want to take the chance of doing a head-to-
and then the party be wrong and Ted Cruz cannot beat Donald Trump one-on-
one. And you don`t want to give Trump the opportunity to run up a high
score against one person.

HAYES: Democratic side, what are you looking for tomorrow?

REID: I think tomorrow you`re going to see Hillary Clinton win Florida. I
haven`t heard very many even Bernie Sanders ads on the radio here, so I
think he`s given up the state. The real battle is obviously in the Rust
Belt. What Sanders wants is to take Ohio from her, take Missouri, if he
can – I was going to say Missoura (ph), take Missouri if he can and take

But in that scenario, the problem for Sanders, her delegate lead is already
so big that I`m not sure that even if you were to take two of those states
he could catch up.

HAYES: Well, right now, he`s in a situation where I think I saw the most -
- he`d have to 54 percent of the remaining pledged delegates. Now, that
means like eight victories across the board, which – he`s not in a Rubio
territory. I mean, he`s in it for sure. And we saw from Michigan, the
polling could be wrong, right.

REID: could be.

HAYES: But he still has – he needs blowouts, basically. The problem is,
even if he gets some narrow wins yesterday – tomorrow and she gets Florida
blowouts, these blowouts that she keeps getting, particularly through the
south, have given her this 200-plus padding that is a very difficult –
because there is no winner take all. There`s no shooting the moon in the
rules in the Democratic side.

REID: It`s interesting that he`s hanging around, paling around with Jesse
Jackson, because it`s Reverend Jackson who created these rules,
proportionality is universal because of Jackson in `88.

HAYES: Rubio – people are already. I mean, I don`t now what to think,
right. Maybe there`s some huge shock the world upset tomorrow. Who knows.
I don`t like to make…

COPPIN: The Rubio campaign is very confident that there will be.

I mean, look. The only thing that he has going for him is the early votes
that have been tallied, that there is a decent case to be made. It`s
actually not clear, but there is a case to be made those early votes favor

You know, there have been a lot of early votes cast here. Though I`ve seen
– the most recent polls actually showed Cruz moving up. So I mean, best
case scenario is Rubio pulls off a miraculous last-second win in his home
state. It shouldn`t be that miraculous. But that`s the best-case scenario
and he stays in.

Worst case scenario is not that he loses…

HAYES: Gets trounced.

COPPIN: And maybe even comes in third.

REID: I think on crazy – I was on – going to radio stations today, went
to the conservative radio station. Cruz is actually getting backlash for
going against the violence of the Trump rallies. That could be Rubio`s

HAYES: Very interesting. McKay Coppins, Joy Reid, thank you for joining
me tonight.

That is ALL IN for this evening.


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