All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 3/3/2016

Jan Brewer, Gabe Sherman, Tahjila Davis, Sherrod Brown

Date: March 3, 2016
Guest: Jan Brewer, Gabe Sherman, Tahjila Davis, Sherrod Brown


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN –

you just can`t imagine happening in your life.

HAYES: After a 2012 endorsement, the last Republican nominee tries to take
down the current front-runner.

ROMNEY: Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud.

HAYES: Donald Trump erupts.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I`ll tell you the real reason he
chickened out. It wasn`t Jeb. It was me.

HAYES: And we now live in a world in which a leading presidential
candidate said this.

TRUMP: He was begging for my endorsement. I could have said, Mitt, drop
to your knees.

HAYES: Tonight, the absolute chaos in the Republican primary. What to
expect at tonight`s debate.

Plus, how Democrats plan to combat Trump`s populist message with Senator
Sherrod Brown.

TRUMP: People in the middle income groups are making less money today.

And new reporting on the Trump campaign`s request to remove two dozen black
students from a Georgia rally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out. Get out.

HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

And tonight, the four remaining candidates will face off for the first time
since Donald Trump claimed a commanding delegate lead on Super Tuesday. We
thought the last debate was ugly, but tonight, with the window to stop
Trump closing fast, the candidates are poised to completely tear each other

That`s also what the Republican Party is threatening to do to itself.
Establishment figures confront what now appears to be their only two
remaining options, accept Donald Trump as the eventual Republican nominee
or take the fight against him all the way to the convention in Cleveland –
a move that could result in the total collapse of the Republican Party.

Today, Mitt Romney took a step in that direction, putting on a display I
don`t think I`ve seen before in American politics, a party`s previous
presidential nominee condemning in the absolute strongest possible terms
the candidate most likely to succeed him.

This was not the kind of criticism you walk back after the primaries are
over and the whole party rallies inevitably behind its nominee.

Romney drew a line in the sand, painting Trump as a threat to the very
survival of the American republic.


ROMNEY: If we Republicans choose Donald Trump as our nominee, the prospect
for a safe and prosperous future are greatly diminished. Donald Trump is a
phony, a fraud. His promises are worthless as a degree from Trump
University. His domestic policies would lead to recession. His foreign
policies would make America and the world less safe.

He has never the temperament nor the judgment to be president, and his
personal qualities would mean that America would cease to be a shining city
on a hill.


HAYES: Mitt Romney knew his speech today would be a lot like waving a red
cape in front of an angry bull and, in fact, you have (INAUDIBLE) about
what the bull would do.


ROMNEY: Watch, by the way, how he responds to my speech today. Will he –
will he talk about our policy differences, or will he attack me with every
imaginable low road insult? This may tell you what you need know about his
temperament, his stability and his suitability to be president.


HAYES: Appearing on a campaign stop in Maine a couple of hours later,
Trump did respond to Mitt Romney. If you thought he would take the high
road, you`d be terribly, terribly wrong.


TRUMP: Mitt is a failed candidate. He failed horribly. I backed him.
You can see how loyal he is. He was begging for my endorsement.

I would have said, Mitt, drop to your knees. He would drop to his knees.
He was begging. He was begging me.


HAYES: While Romney showed more than a little patrician tone deafness,
calling Trump at one point, quote, “very, very not smart” and accused him
of lacking decorum. He did succeed on landing a few punches, especially on
the subject of the dubious now defunct and much sued Trump University.
That attack actually managed to put Trump on defense.


TRUMP: They did a commercial. They took it down where two people were
saying negative and we showed them the state they wrote. They had to take
the commercial down, because 98 percent of the people that took the course
– that took the courses said really wonderful things about it.


HAYES: As of so many of Trump`s assertions, it`s truly unclear if that
statement has any basis in reality. But there was one huge thing missing
from Romney`s speech today, an explanation for his own role in legitimizing
and even elevating Donald Trump in the Republican Party.

This was the moment Trump was referring on his knees remark to when Romney
fawningly collected Trump`s endorsement in 2012 at a time when Trump was
saying things like this about President Obama`s birth certificate.


TRUMP: The document may have been tampered with according to many, many
people. OK? You`ve got grandmothers and you have people in this family
that say he wasn`t born in this country. OK. Forgetting all of that, do I
think he was born here? I have no idea.


HAYES: If Republican leaders fail to grapple with their own party, they
don`t have stand out chance of being able to destroy him. And having
waited so long to make the kind of case against Trump that Romney presented
today, the only real option left for stopping him, a contested convention,
might end up destroying the Republican Party instead.

According to calculations by NBC News, the way the delegate math is likely
to shake out over the next two weeks, Donald Trump appears to be the only
candidate with a clear path to the nomination. This is the magic number it
takes to win out right, 1,237. Even if he`s blocked from reaching that
threshold, Trump is still likely to walk into the con where she thinks the
most delegates in July.

You can imagine what kind of hell would break loose if party elders tried
to overrule the choice, made by a plurality of their voters. According to
one report, that`s exactly what Mitt Romney is thinking about doing.

Joining me now, former Arizona Governor Jan Brewer, a Republican who`s
endorsed Donald Trump for president.

Governor, let me ask you this – is this a breaking point for the
Republican Party if the Republican Party were to succeed in stopping Trump
from getting the nomination or if Trump got the nomination and significant
elements of the party, governors, senators, members of Congress said they
would not vote for him? Does that mean the end of the Republican Party?

been such a phenomenal different thing that we have ever seen in my

HAYES: I agree.

BREWER: It`s gotten completely out of control.

Bottom line is, is that I believe that we should get behind whoever wins
the primary and take them to our convention and nominate him and send him
out and let the people decide.

HAYES: There are people who say the reason they wouldn`t do that is
because Donald Trump is essentially a con man and a fraud, a racist, a
demagogue who has veered completely off the track.

I want to read you something that a former personal aid of Mitt Romney just
tweeted, which gets to this attack. He said, “I recorded a lot of real
Donald Trump. Better hope he didn`t record him tell us to use birther
arguments because, quote, `right wing crazies will believe it`.”

What do you respond to that?

BREWER: I had a hard time hearing you. In fact, I couldn`t hear you.

HAYES: You have Mitt Romney`s former personal aide saying he was in the
room when Donald Trump said to Mitt Romney that they should use the birther
argument because and I`m quoting him here, “right wing crazies will believe

BREWER: Well, you know, there`s so much he said, she said, they said, we
say. Everybody`s weighing in on this. Everybody is an expert. There`s so
much going on and so very, very difficult for anybody out in the public,
the real people that should be making this decision to base their
information on.

Bottom line is Donald Trump is leading in the polls. I think he`s going to
carry it over the top. I don`t think it`s going to be a brokered
convention. I hope that people will vote and vote their conscience and do
what`s right.

But I would tell you this – the people of America are fed up with the
federal government not doing their job and not protecting the people, the
citizens who elected them into place where is they are at.

And right now, we`ve got fighter, someone that`s going to stand up and
fight back and change the direction.

But this whole election and today, in particular, is the essence of the old
saying that Republicans eat their own. If we don`t get our act together
and if we don`t calm down and let this thing play out legitimately, our
party is on a down slide.

HAYES: Governor, you just talked about people being sick and tired of the
federal government not protecting them. I think that`s a reference to
immigration. It`s a reference I think to Donald Trump`s infamous plan to
build a wall and get Mexico to pay for it.

Do you have an explanation for why this issue is so front and center that
net immigration into this country is the lowest it`s been in probably 20

BREWER: Well, I don`t think a lot of us agree with that. The bottom line
is we know since this election is coming forth, we have more people
crossing across the Arizona border than we ever had. People are afraid the
border will get secured and they`re not going to be able to sit back.

Now everybody is making the run for it.

HAYES: Just to be clear, you don`t believe the statistics that –


HAYES: You don`t think it`s true?

BREWER: No, absolutely not. Arizona is the gateway for this illegal
immigration. We pay the price for it.

We are what appears to be the funnel into America. And then, we have to
accept all the costs, with the people that are coming for work. We have to
pay the education, the incarceration, health care.

And in the meantime, we have to put up with the drug cartels, the heroin
that`s being through the drop houses, sex trafficking, extortion. It just
goes on and on.

HAYES: Let me ask you this –

BREWER: Let me just say this, the majority of the people not only in
America but every else, I believe, that country without borders is like a
house would walls. It just collapses.

HAYES: We haven`t collapsed. We do have borders.

BREWER: That`s many of us that think we are collapsing. It`s not America

HAYES: What does that mean, not America anymore?

BREWER: Everything`s out of control. No one is listening to the public.
No one is listening to the citizens. No one is paying attention to the mom
and dad at home, worried about their kids, their kids` education, their
kids` wellbeing.

HAYES: Let me ask you a final question, Governor. Does it give you pause
when you see figures like David Duke and white nationalists who are doing
robocalls, white supremacists, neo-Nazis endorsing Donald Trump.

BREWER: Yes, yes, yes.

HAYES: Does that make you think you`re backing the wrong one?

BREWER: No. We all know that David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan is pathetic.
And it certainly doesn`t represent Arizona. It certainly doesn`t America.
And it`s repulsive. It`s bad.

HAYES: But they agree with you on the wall. They agree with you on the

BREWER: Well, so what?

HAYES: Fair enough.

Former Governor Jan Brewer, I appreciate you coming on tonight. I really
enjoyed that. Thank you.

BREWER: Thank you, Chris.

HAYES: All right. I`m joined now by Joan Walsh, national affairs
correspondent for “The Nation” and an MSNBC political analyst.

You were tweeting today about Mitt`s performance. You are not sold.

JOAN WALSH, THE NATION: I was not sold. I think he`s the fraud. Talk
about a fraud. I think he`s a fraud.

Mitt Romney did more personally to legitimatize Donald Trump as a figure in
the Republican Party than any individual I can think of. Maybe you have
another idea. But, you know, when he went to Trump Tower, he was competing
with Newt Gingrich who would have been a better fit for the endorsement.
When –

HAYES: Who, by the way, it looks like he`s going to endorse Trump. His
tweeter feed is an indication.

WALSH: No. So, when did Trump Tower become a stop on the Republican
campaign trail like the Reagan Library or something? When did that happen
and why did that happen? Only because this man became the birther in chief
and started attacking the president in the most disgusting and racial
terms. That made him a power house in the Republican Party. That helps
propel him. He was a front-runner for a while in 2011 and Mitt decided, “I
need to get some of that.”

HAYES: So, Romney people are all in defense today. Stewart Stevens, of
course, was the campaign manager says, oh, he begged for all these things.
He wanted a convention speaking spot. We said no. He wanted joint
appearances. We flew out to Vegas and it was a small little thing. In the
relative scheme of things, it was nothing.

WALSH: They can say that but he raised money. The point is not
necessarily what Romney did for Trump. The point is what Romney did for

And so, then we have him as the front-runner in 2016. He`s crying. I
mean, look, I personally feel that Donald Trump was to Mitt Romney what
David Duke is to Donald Trump, which is a gateway toward those anxious
Obama hating white, some of them racist, voters that this party, the
Republican Party, has not been able to quip.

Lots of good people say we need to broaden the base, bring in Latinos and
stop scaring the women. But again and again, they go back, when times are
tough, to that white working class, frighten, somewhat racist base. That`s
what Mitt Romney did and that`s part of why you saw Donald Trump sit there
with Jake Tapper and not want to immediately denounce David Duke, because
he doesn`t want to turn off that audience immediately.

And then he went and did it on Twitter and he did say that his earpiece was
broken. He wants to play as close to that crowd as he can. Mitt Romney
did the same thing.

HAYES: Have you seen any – there`s some people, Michael Brendan Doherty
(ph), who we`ve had on the show, has been writing I think some really
interesting things. There has been – I mean, there`s something admirable
about the Never Trump movement in so far as I would hope that if called on
my ideological side, just draw myself –


HAYES: Yes, not loyalty above all us.

WALSH: Right, there are forces.

HAYES: At the same time it also, have you seen the level of grappling with
what created the Trump phenomenon?

WALSH: No, of course not. There`s a bit of a recognition. It was kind of
hypocritical. And we thought maybe we shouldn`t have done it, I mean a
little bit with seeking the endorsement.

But, no, and even Mitt Romney, can I just say this, I mean, this is not
seniority for your show, but let me say, Mitt Romney quoted Ronald Reagan`s
famous, infamous “A Time for Choosing” speech from 1964, when he was
telling the country to follow Barry Goldwater down the path of extremism
and reject Lyndon Johnson. That`s the speech Mitt Romney opened up –

HAYES: Started with tonight.

WALSH: And closed on it as well.

Barry Goldwater drove the party in this direction when he discovered that
working class whites, especially Southern whites, were really riled up
about civil rights. He famously said, we`re going to go hunting where the
ducks are. And he took his party where the ducks were.

And Mitt Romney did the same thing in 2012. Donald Trump has a lot of
ducks. They`re kind of jealous of his ducks, but they`re the ones who went
and brought the party to the –

HAYES: I also thought it was such a perfect moment in American politics
where Mitt Romney, who was a business magnate who then was governor and ran
for president, son of a business magnate who was governor and then ran for
president, knocking Donald Trump for inheriting his father`s business is
like –


WALSH: Nepotism.

HAYES: Everybody, yes, you know, they`re not exactly Horatio Alger up

Joan Walsh, thank you very much.

WALSH: Thank you, Chris.

HAYES: Still to come, the preview of the Republican debate that`s down to
four candidates.

Plus, the common refrain from candidates on both side`s anger at the
establishment. What does that mean? Tonight, an example that includes DNC
Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

And later, we did some digging into what happened earlier this week at a
Trump rally when over two dozen black students were forced to leave. Their
story and more, ahead.



JIMMY FALLON AS DONALD TRUMP: I want to thank Governor Chris Christie for
his unblinking support. I know this guy. He`s fantastic. He`s like my
mini me, except bigger. He`s my mega me. Thank you, mega me. You can go
home now mega me. Good boy. Good mega me.


HAYES: That was Jimmy Fallon last night mocking the supremely awkward
staging of Donald Trump`s Super Tuesday press conference that featured
Governor Chris Christie standing behind Trump with an expressionless face
for more than 30 minutes. As we reported last night, it generated a slew
of memes and questions about just what was going through Chris Christie`s

Today, Christie sought to dispel some of the Internet`s speculation.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: So, no, I wasn`t being held hostage.
No, I wasn`t sitting up there thinking, oh my God, what have I done? I
want everybody to know, for those who are concerned. I wasn`t being held
hostage. I wasn`t upset. I wasn`t angry. I wasn`t despondent. I wasn`t
anything other than happy that we had done as well as we had done that
night, and listening to someone give a press conference in front of the
national press corps.


HAYES: We, we. Happy that we had done so well. Think about that for a

Coming up, what to expect tonight as a winnowed Republican field takes the
debate stage.


HAYES: Last night, FOX News host Sean Hannity appeared to turn against a
Republican candidate he claims to have always liked, Senator Marco Rubio.


SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: I think there`s influence coming from
outside. I think he`s being fed this, probably promised a lot of money. I
don`t think this is the Marco we have known. And, you know, except for
comprehensive immigration, a lot of people respected, and to me, it`s
almost like a kamikaze mission.

I want to be very clear here, for the record, I`ve always liked him. You
don`t think there`s back door meetings and closed door meeting and smoke
filled meetings and he`s not getting support and being offered money to do
all this. I – maybe it`s my conspiratorial mind, I think this is
orchestrated, well-funded and well-organized.


HAYES: What is interesting about this is what preceded it earlier the same
day. A piece in “New York Magazine” claiming that Rubio has lost support
of FOX News. According to three FOX sources, FOX chief Roger Ailes has
told people he`s lost confidence in Rubio`s ability to win. “We`re
finished with Rubio”, Ailes recently told a FOX host. “We can`t do the
Rubio thing anymore.”

Despite how neatly the Hannity rift seemed to line up with the
aforementioned article, FOX News fired back, flatly denying there is any
credence to the story. FOX`s executive vice president Michael Clemente
sent a statement to “Talking Points Memo”, saying in part, quote, “There is
no credence to this narrative.”

We should add one more element, a tweet yesterday by the head of the
company that owns FOX News, News Corps` Rupert Murdoch. “As predicted,
Trump reaching out to make peace with the Republican establishment. If he
becomes inevitable party – inevitable, party would be mad not to unify.”

Does that mean FOX News is ready to unify around Donald Trump? That`s
anyone`s guess.

There`s another GOP debate tonight on FOX News. It will be the first time
Trump and FOX News host Megyn Kelly have faced each other since the
infamous FOX News debate back in August, in which Trump claimed he was
treated so poorly. So, we`ll see what happens there.

But outside the FOX theater in Detroit, waves of ruckus protesters have
been chanting outside, with calls of shut it down and Flint lives matter.

Joining me now, “New York Magazine” contributing editor Gabe Sherman,
author of that “New York Times” bestselling biography of FOX News founder
Roger Ailes, “The Loudest Voice in the Room” and who has been reporting on
this issue.

OK. FOX pushed back. I guess one question is how much is all this
orchestrated anyway, right? I mean, it`s there`s always a sort of what –
who is Ailes pushing? And who is trying to get elected? And we know there
was this dinner between Rubio and Ailes in which Rubio tried to sell him on
comprehensive immigration.

GABE SHERMAN, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: He did. As “The New York Times”
reported, Sean Hannity and other hosts after that dinner became more
receptive of the “gang of eight” bill.

HAYES: So, what is your sense of where FOX is now with respect to the
Trump phenomenon?

SHERMAN: Well, really, what`s going on now is FOX is facing a rebellion
from the far right. There`s a perception that FOX has been propping up
Rubio. That there`s a whole cabal in the Washington bureau of FOX News.
If you look at the pundits who are on Brett Baier`s 6:00 p.m. newscast,
Steven Hayes, Charles Krauthammer, this group of people have really been
Rubio`s champions.

And FOX has been seen as propping him up, especially by the grassroots, the
base that likes Trump. I think what you`re seeing now is Ailes saying,
listen, we can`t be out on the limp seeming to be pushing Rubio along when
the guy can`t deliver voters.

I think Ailes is sort of open to the idea of a Trump candidacy. Obviously,
Rupert Murdoch before was against it. But I think as you saw in Murdoch`s
tweets, I think FOX is coming around to the idea that it`s going to be
Trump and they`re going to get on board.

HAYES: Do you think that will color tonight? I mean, because to me,
what`s been so interesting about the sort of FOX-Trump thing is the way
Ailes very smartly I think crafts this narrative of independence at all
times, and so is from a branding perspective, Megyn Kelly`s tough questions
was a branding win, right? It might not have been a big win with the base,
but it says, look, we`re independent, we`re not in the pocket.

SHERMAN: Sure. I think, tonight, what you`re going to see is Megyn, and
she`s been telling people she`s going to be professional. I think she`s
not going to do anything to outwardly antagonize Trump. And I think Trump
is not going to unnecessarily pick a fight.

At this point, he`s acting like the presumptive nominee. It doesn`t serve
his interest to punch down and pick a feud with a news anchor and having
the former Republican nominee go after him. I mean, having Romney pick a
fight, there`s no reason to side track himself. Knowing Trump, if she does
engage, he`s not going to pass up the opportunity.

HAYES: Well, what sort of amazing to me here is this fight, my sense, and
I would talk to a bunch of Trump voters in Vegas at the caucus, they were
all telling me, we hate FOX, we don`t trust FOX. There`s a real rebellion
against FOX by Trump people.

SHERMAN: You got a poll last month found that FOX perception among
Republican voters, this is the base of the audience is down 50 percent, you
know, the favorable perception. Now, the ratings are holding, A, because
we`re in an amazing news cycle. All networks are up.

But also, if you`re a conservative and you watch television, you still
don`t have another option. I mean, there`s other fledgling operation. So,
FOX still has a monopoly over conservative news. But the perception they
are on the home team is fading.

HAYES: To me, the Murdoch tweet said a lot. I think my prediction would
be and I`m curious, that this will be, there will be total consolidation
around Trump if he`s the nominee 100 percent.

SHERMAN: Well, two things. As we know, Rupert Murdoch likes winners,
right? I mean, he backed Tony Blair in the U.K., in the `90s, right? And
so, he`s willing to go both ways. If Trump is going to be the nominee,
he`s going to have to get on board because he wants to further the business
of News Corps and 21st Century Fox. So, I think that`s what`s going to

And also, I know that from reporting, Murdoch is impressed by Trump`s
staying power. I mean, the guy is a fighter. He`s a winner. And Murdoch
has said, listen, they have thrown everything at him and it hasn`t worked.
I mean, that`s impressive to Murdoch.

HAYES: All right. Gabe Sherman, always a pleasure. Thank you very much.

Coming up, how Donald Trump is already positioning himself with a Hillary
Clinton fight with a line attempting to appeal to Bernie Sanders
supporters. I`ll explain, next.



SANDERS: The real question is was she right to vote for or support NAFTA?
Was she right to support permanent normal trade relations with China? The
answer is she was very, very wrong and millions of families around this
country have been suffering as a result of those disastrous trade


HAYES: Ahead of Sunday`s Democratic debate in Flint, Michigan, Senator
Bernie Sanders held a press conference this morning in Lansing, Michigan
where he hit Hillary Clinton on trade.

Yesterday, the Sanders campaign put out a statement calling Hillary
Clinton, quote, outsourcer in chief. Although the Sanders campaign did
concede Clinton is now against The Transpacific Partnership, the Obama-
backed trade deal whose early framework she once referred to as a, quote,
gold standard in trade agreements, the campaign suggested Clinton only
reached that decision because he`s running against Bernie Sanders for

Hillary Clinton can expect similar attacks on her trade positions and more
broadly the economic record of the Obama administration if she were to
eventually become the nominee and run against the other current front-
runner, Donald Trump.


TRUMP: Our country is going to hell. And people don`t understand that.
And Hillary Clinton doesn`t have a clue. She can`t do that. She`s talking
about – I mean, one of the things that is really bothered me, I think one
of the reasons I have such great support, is that people, you take a look,
people, the middle income groups are making less money today, less money,
than they did 12 years ago.

And in her speech she just said they are making less money. Well, she`s
been there with Obama for a long period of time. Why hasn`t she done
anything about it?


HAYES: Joining me now, Senator Sherrod Brown, Democrat from Ohio, a
Hillary Clinton supporter and the person who last year united Democrats to
attempt to block the president`s TPP trade deal.

Senator, let me ask you this. I think of you as having a tremendously
accurate finger on the pulse of Ohio voters. You been reelected in that
state – you`ve been elected statewide twice as Senator. You`ve been
elected statewide before.

Here is the polling right now. Donald Trump versus Hillary Clinton in your
state, 44-42 Donald Trump, against Bernie Sanders 44-44.

Now, let`s just say for the moment that this is obviously very early and
this stff doesn`t necessarily mean what`s going to happen in November.
That said, what is the message that is going to resonate with the voters
that you know, that you have successfully won over against Donald Trump
this fall?

SEN. SHERROD BROWN, (D) OHIO: Well, I think once people start paying
attention and they – first of all, they look at whom do they want to
select for commander in chief – Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. I think
that`s pretty telling to start with.

And I think Hillary will wear well in the months ahead when she talks about
the middle class, talks about trade, talks about jobs. And I think Trump

I mean, Republican politicians for years have been dog whistling about race
and now they`re shocked, they`re shocked when Donald Trump starts barking.

And I think that over time that`s going to settle in, then the offense he`s
show, the offensive statements are going to be cumulative against women,
against muslims, against Mexicans, against African-Americans. And I think
Trump over time, Hillary`s message strengthens.

But I`m concerned, of course I`m concerned about Trump. I`m concerned
about what it says about our country. I`m concerned about the hate he`s

But I think in the end Ohio voters will be pretty sensible when they really
start paying attention and they see a debate where you have got two
candidates, one substantive, smart, strong leader, the other one a
demagogue and pretty sleazy when it comes to his business dealings and
willingness to play into fear and hate and prejudice.

HAYES: One of the things you mentioned when you talk about Hillary as the
possible nominee – and again this is a contested primary at this point.
You`re supporting Hillary Clinton, if it were to be Hillary Clinton as the
nominee, you mention middle class and trade. I mean, there`s one thing
that Donald Trump has really shown he will be doing in the general, which
is go hard at trade. He`s knocked the TPP, which is something that you
strongly opposed. That was a deal that was partially negotiated on Hillary
Clinton, though she opposes it as she`s running now. Bernie Sanders
strenuously opposes it.

Do you worry about him being able to get to Hillary Clinton`s left on
issues like NAFTA and the TPP and trade deals, particularly with white
working class voters in Ohio?

BROWN: Well, I think that she brings a message populist message well
beyond trade. And I don`t think voters see left or right here.

I think the telling point on trade, Chris, was pretty interesting of the
what are there are six candidates running for president, four of the six,
two Republicans, Cruz and Trump, both Democrats, Hillary and Bernie, all
four of the six are against TPP, which tells me that the country, that our
leaders are finally catching up with the voters and catching up with the

I will be out there strong on trade for Hillary. I believe Hillary will
actually know how to negotiate a trade agreement. I don`t think Trump
clearly has any depth at all except that he beats up on China, and China
deserves it.

But our trade negotiators deserve it more than China does on these issues.

So, I think that people like me will help Hillary strengthen her voice on
this. I think she`s in the right place. And I think Trump is so shallow
on this issue as he is on damn near every other issue that he can`t explain

HAYES: This is important to me when you talk about being strong out there.
I mean, you wrote a book about trade back when you were serving as a member
of congress, and back I have to say when the consensus was in the
Democratic Party extremely robust about this sort of – particularly among
the elites of the Democratic Party that these trade deals would bring jobs,
that they were win, win, win. You`ve been a long time critic of it.

What you`re saying is, you stake your reputation, your credibility on this
as fighting for this 20 years, on behalf of Hillary Clinton you go to your
voters confident if she were elected she would be in the right place on
this stuff?

BROWN: Yeah, I am confident. I`ve talked to her. I`m confident that she
will be in the right place. And, you know, it`s – I think the American
public is – just when you see other politicians talking about it, I think
the American public is not going to stand for anything less from its
elected officials. That`s why you see Cruz doing this. That`s why you see
Trump. I don`t believe Trump or Cruz are fair traders. I think they are
probably both free traders. I think Hillary had mixed feelings about it
before. I think she had the right sentiments. I think probably with Bill
Clinton in the White House that had some impact on her for sure. And I
think she has seen that NAFTA didn`t work. This is my opinion of her, not
what she said to me about NAFTA. And I frankly I think Bill Clinton`s
probably seeing that NAFTA hasn`t worked very well. And I don`t expect him
to stand up publicly to talk about it that way.

But it`s clear our trade policy, our tax policy and the elites of this
country have sold us short. I won`t use the word betrayed, that`s maybe a
little strong, but they have sold us short on trade and taxes and our place
in the international economy.

HAYES: So, my question to you is, there`s two schools of thought about
Donald Trump as the nominee, the sort of bring this back around. And I`ve
seen both of it.

One is this guy is going to get creamed. He`s got the highest unfavorables
of anyone that`s ever gotten the nomination of a major party. There`s huge
swaths of the country that wouldn`t even consider voting for the guy.

The other is he`s terrifying. He will ditch everything that he`s done
before. He doesn`t believe in anything so he can say anything. Which camp
are you in?

BROWN: Well, I`m more in former. But I`d say we`re going to beat him but
I think we only beat him if we do what we need to do and make the contrast.
I mean, elections are always about contrast. And I think the contrast
between former secretary of state and this Marco Rubio`s words, a guy I
quote all the time, a con man. And then showing the depth.

When Hillary and Donald Trump go to debate, and Trump doesn`t – Trump will
lose his temper, Trump show his sexism. Trump will show his racism, if
he`s a racist of if he`s just a demagogue, I don`t know. But – and Trump
will show his shallowness in terms of issues.

And when it`s one-on-one and 100 million – 20 million people are watching,
or 50 million people versus one of many with a few million watching a
debate, and then a few million go to the caucuses versus 100 million plus
got to vote, it`s a whole different story.

HAYES: All right, Senator Sherrod Brown, always a pleasure. Thank you,

BROWN: Thanks. My pleasure.

HAYES: Still ahead, as voters across the political spectrum rail against
the, quote, establishment, a story that shows why some Democratic voters
might not be so happy with their own party`s establishment.


HAYES: There`s been a lot of talk this year about the Republican
establishment, a widespread recognition that there is anger at said

But what does it mean when people inside the Democratic Party talk about
being mad at the establishment themselves? Well, here is a guess at what
it might

Here is Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a friend of the program.
We`ve had her on a bunch. The chair of the Democratic National Committee,
which is, simply as a matter of definition, quite literally as
establishment as it gets in terms of the Democratic Party.

And here is what she`s up to lately. It involves something called payday
loans, basically small, short term loans that are meant to be repaid in
full on the borrow`s next payday. Now, it`s the kind of loan that might be
very attractive to a worker who is living paycheck to paycheck.

The problem, as well documented, is that these loans are notoriously
predatory with interest rates averaging 390 percent nationally, you heard
that right.

But, thanks in large part to the work of Senator Elizabeth Warren when she
was in the Obama administration, we have something called the consumer
financial protection bureau. And one of its missions is to create
regulations to protect consumers against predatory lending like, for
instance, predatory lending of payday loans.

Now, Congressman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, according to the Huffington
Post, is co-sponsoring a new bill that would gut the CFPB`s forthcoming
payday loan regulations. Specifically, the bill would delay new
regulations on payday lending by two years as well as nullify the rules in
states that already have a law on payday lenders, states like, for
instance, Florida, Wasserman Schultz`s home state.

Not that that state law offers too much protection itself, to be honest,
according to consumer advocate quoted by the Huffington Post, the problem
here is that Florida`s law is a sham. It was backed by the industry.

A Wasserman Schultz spokesperson took exception to this, telling the
Huggington Post, as a state lawmaker she helped write Florida`s law that
has sharply reduced the need to go to bad actors and curb predatory
practices, creating standards and protections for low-income borrowers.

That spokesperson reiterated to All In in a statement the congresswoman
sees bill as good for consumers.

He also told us Wasserman Schultz is not taking the lead on the bill, but
is a co-sponsor of the bill along with eight others, Democrats, and 15

Even without getting into the details of what this bill would actually do,
it`s safe to say that headlines like this are what might come to mind when
Democrats think about the divide between the establishment and the party`s
progressive base.



TRUMP: Now you know you can be nice, but if your nice they`ll say, oh, you
were so soft. Then you can be vicious. Get out of here, right. And then
they`ll say you were too harsh.

So, I`ve developed a nice, all right. Please get them out.


HAYES: That`s Donald Trump today at an event in Portland, Maine right
after his second round of ejecting protesters. the first round came 46
seconds into his speech. The act has become a ritual at Trump rallies,
part of the spectacle we know it will happen. The only question are when
and to whom.

Notably this week, at least, we found out the answer to that second

It happened to people of color, people who may not have been even
protesting. We want to talk about what that means with a woman who was at
that rally earlier this week in Valdosta, Georgia and was kicked out for
apparently just being there before it even started.


HAYES: Over the past several months, the Trump campaign has become
notorious for the treatment both of protesters and of the press. Repeated
incidents of violence and harassment often seemingly encouraged by Donald
Trump himself.


TRUMP: He`s walking out like he big high fives, smiling laughing, like to
punch him in the face.

Get him out of here. No, he can keep his coat. Tell him we`ll send it to
him in a couple of weeks.

Yeah, get them hell out of here, will you please?

The third group, I`ll be a little more violent. And the fourth group, I`ll
say get the hell out of here.


HAYES: In the past week alone there have been several extremely disturbing
incidents at Trump events around the country. Last night, we showed you
video of
a young woman who was pushed and yelled at by several including an avowed
and knwon white supremacist Neo Nazi at a rally in Kentucky.

On Monday, we covered a Time magazine reporter being slammed to the ground
by a U.S. Secret Service agent at a Trump rally in Georgia.

Now, at that same event around 30, mostly African-American students, were
escorted out of there by local law enforcement.

Today, All In spoke to two students who were at the event, Quentin Savory
Simms, a student at Valdosta State University, who is active on campus,
told All In that the students were not protesting but simply attending the

He pointed to an e-mail he sent out to school officials expressing his
concerns about the Trump rally, which read, in part, quote, in all caps.
“This is not call to protest. We honor Trump`s first amendment right and
do not wish to disrupt the rally.”

A SnapChat from Simms on Monday, the day of the event reads, “if you`re
to the Plex today,” that`s the venue, “please wear all black, business
casual if you can, 4:30 on the tennis courts and sit together for the
duration of the rally. Bring a book, some headphones, or just come vibe
with everybody that`s for the cause.”

That plan to vibe with everyone and not disrupt the event was cut short.
Before Donald Trump even went onto speak, the students were approached by
uniform local law enforcement and asked to leave. They were then escorted
out of the event by several of those officers. That students we spoke to
said they weren`t doing anything to warrant being rejected.

On Tuesday, Trump responded to plan to a Des Moines Register report that
his campaign had initiated the students removal.


TRUMP: I have nothing to do with it. I show up. I didn`t even know
anything happened. And they wrote this vicious story. And it gets picked
up by everybody. And this is a paper that`s an enemy of ours with a writer
who is horrible, and they pick it up all over the place and they said
Donald Trump ordered them out.


HAYES: A Trump campaign spokesperson also denied the incident at Valdosta
State University`s campus was initiated at the request of the candidate or
the presidential campaign.

Now, the local law enforcement agencies involved in the incident today told
us at All In a different story.

All In spoke today to both the Lownes County (ph) sheriff`s department and
the Valdosta police department by phone. Captain stride jones of the
Sheriff`s department told All In when asked why his officers approached
that group of students, predominantly African-American in a Trump rally, he
said because a member
of the Trump event staff approached a member of our agency and requested
that the group be asked to leave.

Chief Brian Childress of Valdosta police told All In that he spoke to a
Trump staffer, whose name I do not have, she told us they needed to leave.

Not only did I talk to a trump staffer, so did the university police and we
were told over the radio by the sheriff`s office that the Trump staff
wanted them out.

We followed up with the Trump campaign, asked them if they disputed those
two law enforcement statements on the record given to us. They responded
by sending us an earlier statement, “the campaign had no knowledge of the
incident until after reading these false report.”

It`s not however clear what false reports they are referring to. We`re
going to speak to a young woman who was at that event and forced to leave,



TRUMP: He`s walking out like big high fives, smiling laughing. Like to
punch him in the face.

Get him out of here. No, you can keep his coat. Tell him we`ll send it to
him in a couple of weeks.

Yeah, get them the hell out of here will you please?

The third group, I`ll be a little more violent. And the fourth group, I`ll
say get the hell out of here.


HAYES: Joining me now Tahjila Davis, a student at Valdosta State
University who was among the group of students kicked out a Trump rally on
Monday evening.

Tahjila, can you you tell me a little bit why you decided to go to the
Trump rally?

the Trump rally with one of my friends so I can educate myself about the
presidential candidates, because that`s what an adult does, they look at
every aspect of the competition and I just want to see who Donald Trump
really was.

HAYES: So, you were genuinely curious. You were not planning on
protesting, right?

DAVIS: Not at all.

HAYES: And so you get there, what was your – what was it like inside the

DAVIS: It felt really, really awkward. Seeing that, you know, Donald Trump
has predominantly white supporters. Being in there felt like a kind of
like a needle in a hay stack.

HAYES: So, you felt very profoundly the fact that you and your friends
predominantly African-American looked a lot different than the typical
attendees at the Donald Trump rally.

DAVIS: That`s correct.

HAYES: And you guys were all dressed in black, is that right?

DAVIS: Yes, sir.

HAYES: What was that about?

DAVIS: We just really wanted to look like a unit instead of, you know, be
neutral about the situation, instead of, you know, if we came in regular
people would be like oh, they`re a bunch of Trump supporters. So, we just
wanted to be neutral about it and look like a unit at the same time.

HAYES: So, you wanted to send the message, we are not here as Trump
supporters. We are not here to disrupt. We don`t like what Trump has to
say but we`re going to be here and we are going to listen and take in what
he has to say.

DAVIS: Not necessarily we didn`t like what he has to say. We were curious
if everything that he`s saying is true as what we`re seeing on TV and

HAYES: Did you feel like being among friends all together that there was
strength in numbers given you were in this huge rally where there weren`t a
lot of folks like yourself.

DAVIS: Yes, we – I felt more comfortable being with a group of people
like me.

HAYES: And so then the police come over and they – what do they tell you?

DAVIS: They – I was in a second group that came up. So by the time I
actually got up into the spot that we were going to stand, the first group
of people had already turned around. And they told us that the police had
asked us to leave.

HAYES: And did they give you any explanation of why you were being asked
to leave?

DAVIS: No. All they said was the Trump campaign said that we had to go.

HAYES: The Trump campaign.

So, clearly the Trump campaign had spotted a large group of black students
sitting together. And it appears that someone had gone to law enforcement
and said we want those people gone?

DAVIS: I`m guessing. I don`t know much detail about who ordered us.

HAYES: What was it like in terms of how the crowd reacted? I`ve seen
shots you guys being led out of this rally And it`s obviously a pretty
stark difference between the people who are being escorted out and people
who are at the rally as Trump attendees. How did you feel being led out in
front of everyone?

DAVIS: It was uncomfortable. Because when we were getting ready to leave
out the door while they were moving us through the door so we can leave,
everybody put their eyes on us. They pulled their cameras out. They
started putting their signs up chanting Trump at us as if we were there to
cause trouble.

HAYES: So, you felt like you got some hostility and focus from the crowd
as you were being led out?

DAVIS: Yes, sir.

HAYES: Did it feel to you like you were being singled out because you were
black, you were a group of black students in a rally for Donald Trump with
a lot of white folks there.

DAVIS: Not necessarily singled out but prejudged. Prejudged most

HAYES: Did you end up – you went there for some educational desire. Did
you feel like you learned something about Donald Trump at the rally?

DAVIS: i really can`t speak on that, because I went to the rally to learn
about him and we got put out before he even showed up. So, I really didn`t
learn anything about the man.

HAYES: Yeah, Tahjila Davis, thank you very much. May being kicked out a
Trump rally not be your own claim to fame. And I don`t think it will be.
Thank you so much for coming to tell your story. Appreciate it.

That is All in for this evening.


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