All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 2/10/2016

Molly Ball, Michelle Goldberg, Linda Sarsour, Ezra Klein

Date: February 10, 2016
Guest: Molly Ball, Michelle Goldberg, Linda Sarsour, Ezra Klein


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN –

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We`re going to win so much. You
are going to be so happy.

HAYES: Trump takes New Hampshire. Now, can anybody stop him?



HAYES: Why last night`s results could not be worse for the Republican

TRUMP: You started it. Remember, you started it.

HAYES: Then, Bernie`s big win.

and I say huge.

HAYES: Will Team Clinton change course?

do. We`re going to fight for every vote in every state.

HAYES: Plus, the candidates calling it quits. And the real story behind
one of Twitter`s top trends last night.

HAYES: And Bernie sandwiches.

ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

And if you had to come up with the worst possible result in the New
Hampshire primary from the perspective of the people who run the Republican
Party and the donors who fund it, you could not top what actually happened
last night. After Donald Trump`s second-place finish in Iowa put a dent in
his gold-plated armor, Republican elites dared to hope the Donald passed
his peak.

But New Hampshire voters handed Trump a resounding victory last night,
beating the competition by a margin of almost 20 percent, even bigger than
the latest polls had predicted.

At a rally tonight in South Carolina which holds the next Republican
primary on February 20th, Trump basked in the glow of his first ever
electoral win.


TRUMP: New Hampshire, what a great place. What a great place. And we won
it big. We won it big. We won by a lot. Really a lot. And – and the
reason is that people are tired of losing in this country.


HAYES: Exit polls from last night suggest Trump`s unique brand of politics
has become bigger than the candidate, himself. With 65 percent of New
Hampshire Republicans, including many who did not vote for Trump, saying
they`d support a temporary ban on Muslims who are not U.S. sent citizens
entering the country. An idea roundly criticized even by fellow
Republicans as flirting with outright fascism.

At the same time, exit polls show Trump supporters picked their candidate
early and stuck with him, unfazed by his loss in Iowa and his unorthodox
New Hampshire campaign. A full 68 percent cited a vote for Trump before
the last few days, leading up to the primary – the highest proportion of
early deciders of any candidate. That number would seem to suggest Trump
supporters are by in large more than other candidate supporters a fixed
group. He`s not doing a lot of persuading and most of the people going to
vote for Trump are already with him.

If Trump has a ceiling, as many have suggested, the only way to take him
down will be to cull the field until there are two options left, Trump and
not Trump. Among party elites, the hope was New Hampshire would go a long
way in advancing that process. But besides Chris Christie and Carly
Fiorina who both suspended their campaigns today after coming up short in
the primary, the dynamics of the race are almost completely unchanged as
the cycle moves on to South Carolina, which is just about the worst outcome
for the anti-Trump, not to mention the anti-Cruz forces.

In New Hampshire, second place went to John Kasich, Ohio governor who
arguably would make a strong general election candidate but whose lack of
funds and a clear constituency within the Republican electorate make his
path forward in the primary a pretty difficult one.

In what may have been the biggest upset of the night, third place went to
Ted Cruz, the only candidate that establishment Republicans may loathe more
than Donald Trump. And after outperforming in a relatively moderate state,
Cruz is arguing not without credibility that he`s the guy to take on Trump.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: One of the most important
conclusions coming out of these first two states is that the only candidate
who can beat Donald Trump is me. What we`re seeing is conservatives
uniting behind our campaign. I think Iowa and New Hampshire together
played a critical role in that and then South Carolina is going to play an
even more critical role.


HAYES: Jeb bush`s fourth-place finish last night seems to have been just
enough to carry him through to South Carolina where his extraordinarily
well-funded team is planning a repeat of their Granite State strategy.
Bush`s super PAC is reportedly putting in an additional $1.7 million into
South Carolina on top of the $10 million they already spent there.

While the campaign is prepping a scorched earth attack against Kasich and
Rubio, according to an internal memo obtained by “Politico”, today, the
super PAC put out a new radio ad featuring the man Jeb apparently considers
his secret weapon.


GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: This is President George W. Bush. We
live in troubled times with the military deployed around the world. We
need a strong leader with experience, ideas, and resolve. There`s no doubt
in my mind that Jeb bush will be a great commander in chief for our


HAYES: But perhaps the most consequential result last night certainly the
most devastating for the donor class and beltway elites was the fifth-place
finish of Marco Rubio who`d been well on his way to consolidating the anti-
Trump and Cruz vote after coming in a strong third in Iowa. Then came the
debate Saturday night and Rubio`s inability to stop repeating the same
scripted talking points about President Obama. Exit polls suggest that
moment may have helped send New Hampshire Republicans running in the other
direction with 63 percent of Kasich voters picking their candidate in just
the last few days.

After consistently refusing to even acknowledge his slipup, even attempting
to convince reporter after reporter that he was, in fact, thrilled with his
performance, Rubio tried a different tact last night after the results came


RUBIO: I want you to understand something. Our disappointment tonight is
not on you. It`s on me. It`s on me.

I did not – I did not do well on Saturday night. So, listen to this, that
will never happen again.


HAYES: Hoping to reverse his image as a so-called Marco-bot, Rubio took
questions from reporters for about 45 minutes today in an off-the-cuff
suggestion on his plane.

Now, as the remaining candidates all converge on South Carolina, here`s the
thing – the structural forces that made Donald Trump the front-runner for
the past seven, eight months are still entirely intact. Unless something
drastic happens, it`s hard to see the dynamics changing any time in the
immediate future.

Former Senator Judd Gregg, a Bush supporter, summed up in an interview in
“The New York Times,” quote, “If four people come out of South Carolina,
we`re into a brokered convention.”

Joining me now, Robert Costa, national political reporter for “The
Washington Post,” MSNBC political analyst, Molly Ball, staff writer
covering politics for “The Atlantic”, and Josh Barro, correspondent for
“The Upshot” of “The New York Times” and MSNBC contributor.

Robert, let me start you. I mean, as someone who is as plugged in as you
are in the world of sort of the Republican political establishment,
Republican political operatives and donors, is this read that I have on it,
which is about the worst thing they could have hoped for last night, is
that correct?

ROBERT COSTA, THE WASHINGTON POST: The calendar works in Trump`s favor,
Chris. When you talk to people close to Trump and those part of other
rival campaigns, there`s a sense that South Carolina state where Trump has
led for about a year. And he has a double digit lead and he has a solid
ground operation.

He`s been hiring people there since February of 2015. And there`s a sense
that even if he doesn`t do as well as expected in South Carolina, he goes
strong into the south on March 1st, the Deep South. You got Alabama and
other states and other blue collar New England states like Massachusetts
coming up on that day.

HAYES: You know, you just mentioned the ground game. I want to play this
clip from Trump last night, he`s talking about the ground game like it was
a two-word phrase that someone has whispered to him about 72 hours before
the voting started in New Hampshire.

Take a listen to him talking about the ground game.


HAYES: Boy, do we have a ground game. We learned a lot about ground games
in one week, I have to tell you that.


HAYES: Molly, I mean, part of what makes last night`s victory all the more
remarkable, frankly, is the fact that he really did eschew a traditional
campaign infrastructure and there was a sense in Iowa that he paid for
that, that he got outhustled on the ground. Last night in New Hampshire,
it seemed to work out for him.

MOLLY BALL, THE ATLANTIC: Well, a ground game matters a lot less in a
primary than a caucus. A caucus turnout is to low that you can really
manipulate it by driving more people out to vote. In a primary, you have a
lot of people who are going to vote no matter what and that`s going to be
the case in South Carolina, too, where turnout is going to be higher just

Ground game is great especially in a primary but only gets you so far.
What really wins elections is a big message that attracts a lot of voters.

And that`s what Trump has. He`s got these massive rallies. I spoke to his
campaign director in South Carolina a few weeks ago who said, what would
you rather have, knock on 50 doors and maybe some of those people come out
and vote for you, or get 10,000 people to drive and hour or two from their
house in the middle of the day to go to a rally and you got all these
people`s information and they`re already probably pretty committed to you.

So, that`s the advantage they feel like they have.

HAYES: This message, Josh, I think you have been as sort of astute on the
Trump message as anyone writing about the phenomena from the very
beginning. You wrote a piece in “The Times” today about Jan Brewer as kind
of presaging the Trump phenomenon.

Basically throw overboard the Club for Growth`s orthodoxy which is not
popular with people, anyway. It`s popular with the Wall Street – people
who read “The Wall Street Journal” editorial page, embrace essentially
ethno-nationalism in politics, build a wall, you know, and really
aggressive rhetoric and be vague about policy.

was interesting because she`s another figure neither the media nor the
conservative establishment in Washington ever really understood. She was
sort of laughed at.

The thing is in addition to outraging the left to what she did on
immigration, she really thumbed her nose at conservative interests on the
size of government. She raised the sales tax. She took the Medicaid
expansion. She made a lot of conservatives angry and threw the RINO stuff
which they usually do, which can work with moderates, but she was able to
say, look, I`m no RINO, look how I outraged the left, look at me standing
with you on immigration against the Washington establishment that does not
want the hard-line on immigration.

So, Donald Trump has been able to do exactly that and inoculate himself
against charges that he`s not conservative enough by being more
conservative on the issues that conservative voters really seem to care

HAYES: OK. So, that`s the question then, Robert – and I want to talk
about South Carolina for a moment I wonder how much as we go to South
Carolina, Cruz had a good argument last night. I think his argument paid,
you want a Trump and anti-Trump, I`m your guy.

How much do you see the race in South Carolina resetting to what it was
much more in Iowa, which is context over conservative orthodoxy? In New
Hampshire, it was definitely not that. South Carolina is a more
conservative state than New Hampshire is.

Do you think the race goes back to that point?

COSTA: It could, but I think we`re watching many races unfold at once.
The establishment group of the race is as bloody as ever. You have Kasich
and Bush and Rubio fighting for some piece of the pie in South Carolina so
they can carry on.

But Cruz wants this to be an ideological race. When you talk to Cruz
allies, his ally super PAC, when you talk to his campaign and the
candidate, himself, he speaks of the conservative movement as something
that must be protected and that the nominee should be someone coming out of
the movement right.

What Trump`s challenge is to the system, he`s not running an ideological
campaign. He`s running, as Josh said, it`s a non-ideological enterprise
that`s based on nationalist instincts and that`s what`s really the battle
in the Republican Party right now. It`s not about people. It`s about
ideas and whether ideology should be at the core of the GOP.

HAYES: Yes, I would say he`s running an ideological campaign, it`s just
not the ideology of basically the Club for Growth and the kind of – and
the Heritage Foundation, essentially.

Molly, the Rubio result last night was about as bad as it could be
essentially. And I have to say, to me it was one of those open questions,
we all watched the debate. I had the reaction of that`s a bad moment.
That`s a really bad moment. Particularly the fourth time he said it when
the crowd booed which was a really bad moment women is left out of the
super cuts.

But sometimes, you know, we can all convince ourselves we know something
and then the voters are like, actually, I didn`t care about. They cared.
I mean, it now seems to be what we thought it was essentially.

BALL: Well, after that happened, I went back to my notes from the Rubio
events I had been to and what I saw was a lot of voters who were interested
in him primarily because they thought because of his electability argument.

HAYES: Right.

BALL: But were concerned about his lack of experience. Concerned about
whether he`d been tested.

And so, the reason that was so devastating is it played into the qualms
that a lot of sort of establishment Republicans who wanted to find someone
to coalesce around, those were the worries that they already had and he
sort of dramatically illustrated why he might not be prepared for a really
high-stakes contest.

I think also in politics, you can survive almost anything except mockery.
And when you become ridiculous, it`s really, really, really hard to get
credibility back in the eyes of voters. And with that clip playing on
loop, you know, I went to bed after the debate thinking, well, you know,
maybe the voters won`t care, and I woke up and I looked at it again and
just thought, man, this is awful.

HAYES: And the point you make there is key because I`ve talked to people
about Rubio and I keep using this metaphor that it`s like certain kind of
establishment Republicans, like, it`s like them willing a toddler to do a
difficult task the way a parent stands over – just like, can you do it?
Like that`s the way it feels. There`s so much pressure. Sort of, like,
Marco Rubio`s our salvation, he can run against Hillary Clinton.

But it`s live by electability, die by electability, right? I mean, if the
argument you`re making is this kind of meta argument that you`re the best
person at this set of skills called politics, if you stumble politically,
you have damaged quite deeply your argument to run.

BARRO: Yes, no, I mean, it`s exactly the sort of thing where it`s all
about confidence and if people lose confidence in him with – because the
only reason to believe that he was going to be electability was everybody
said he was going to be electable, and then you have this emerge and it`s
sort of, you know, the emperor has no clothes moment. I think that`s
exactly why it was so devastating.

HAYES: I also think – I had seen him, talked to enough people I trust who
say he does have tremendous political talent. I think that the weaknesses
of that were exposed.

But let me just close by this. We talk about brokered convention. Can we
show that the delegates right now, keep in mind, this is a score right now,
OK, 17 for Donald Trump, 11 for Ted Cruz, 10 for Marco Rubio, 5 for John
Kasich, 4 for Jeb Bush, 3 for Ben Carson.

I mean, if people stick around, like this idea of brokered convention which
everyone always talks about every year –

BARRO: I think this is the thing establishment Republicans are telling
themselves now, it used to be he was going to lose in Iowa and cause him to
lose –

HAYES: You think –


BARRO: Yes, the states start being winner take all. The supposed ceiling
he has keeps getting higher and higher. He doesn`t need to get to 50
percent. People assume that, you know, everyone who`s not for him is going
to vote for somebody else, I don`t think that`s true.

HAYES: All right. Robert Costa, Molly Ball, and Josh Barro, thank you

Still to come, following Bernie`s massive huge win in New Hampshire, he
faces a new challenge in South Carolina. What that is.

Plus, where does Hillary Clinton go from here? A look at the decision her
campaign now needs to make.

And later, the frightening reality people watched unfold last night,
Trump`s first victory in the primary.

Those stories and more, ahead.



HAYES: A lot of that has to do with stagnating wages in the middle but you
see that play out in different ways in both Trump`s particularly closing
message and railing against pharmaceutical companies and the like and
Bernie sandwich`s – Sanders` message from the beginning.


HAYES: You may have noticed last night during the New Hampshire primary
coverage I called the winner of the Democratic contest Bernie sandwiches.

Now, when I got off air, I wondered if anyone noticed. I checked my phone.
It became clear, yes, people definitely noticed. My colleague Kate Snow
quoting per 10-year-old daughter on Twitter, “Mommy, did you hear that guy
say Bernie sandwich?”

Apparently others had more or less the same thought. Bernie sandwich
trended on Twitter for hours. Became fodder for memes galore. Some more
appetizing than others.

As this NPR headline emphatically complained “Bernie sandwich” was the
hashtag meme of the night. Well, you`re welcome, America.

As I learned my slipup was really a public service announcement, as @darth
tweeted, “Thank you for reminding me, Chris, I have not eaten all day to be

Saying Bernie sandwiches was an honest slip of the tongue, as I explain
last night on Twitter. In my defense, I was literally watching people
being served dinner when I said Bernie sandwiches.



CLINTON: I know I have some work to do, particularly when young people,
but I will repeat again what I have said this week.


CLINTON: Even – even if they are not supporting me now, I support them.


HAYES: Going into last night`s New Hampshire primary, it was plausible to
think that despite the polling average, Hillary Clinton could at least
finish within single digits of Bernie Sanders, thanks to her momentum out
of Iowa. Her efforts in the ground in New Hampshire where she won in 2008
despite polling behind my nearly double digits, and the structural
advantages that come with being – well, Hillary Clinton.

Instead, she got absolutely trounced. Losing to Sanders by a whopping 22
points, with Sanders winning among virtually every demographic subgroup
including women, young voters and the working class.

Now, as it moves into the second phase of the campaign, the Clinton
campaign faces a choice – stick to its plan despite underperforming in the
first two states of fundamentally change course. The case for sticking to
the plan starts with the fact those first two states, Iowa and New
Hampshire, are not exactly representative of the Democratic coalition.

New Hampshire and Iowa rank as the fourth and fifth whitest states in the
union. Nine out of ten residents of those two states are white. That`s
the case for only about 62 percent of the nation overall.

And as FiveThirtyEight notes, polling indicated Sanders trails Clinton
among non-white voters by nearly 40 percentage points nationally.

Sanders is now aggressively reaching out to nonwhite voters as we`ll
discuss later in the show. There`s also a case to be made, there is a
potential fatal flaw in Clinton`s message. Clinton campaign is grappling
with the realization Sanders seemed to inspire and motivate voters more
effectively. Clinton, herself, seemed to acknowledge that this weekend
while getting in a dig at her opponent.


CLINTON: I know that it`s maybe not the most appealing or charismatic
message to say, hey, guys, be angry, and then let`s roll up our sleeves and
get to work. Anger is a powerful emotion, but it is not a plan.


HAYES: Fundamental question facing Clinton and her campaign after New
Hampshire is this, do they have a genuine messaging problem on their hand?
If so, how do they fix it?

Joining me now, “Slate” columnist, Michelle Goldberg.

Michelle, you have a great piece in “Slate” today about basically you used
to hate Hillary Clinton, now you`re going to vote for her. I think you`re
a straight shooter on the sort of strengths and weaknesses of her.

What`s your read of this? I mean, which of those two paths if you had to
choose, hey, it`s okay, these states aren`t representative, just do your
thing, or something has to change here?

MICHELLE GOLDBERG, SLATE.COM: Well, both I think. I mean, on the one
hand, she`s still clearly the favorite and, you know, although there hasn`t
been any recent polling in South Carolina and some of these other states,
the most recent polling shows her ahead by, you know, kind of overwhelming
margins and I haven`t seen any sign that that`s about to change within the
next couple of days.

HAYES: I should note it`s bizarre there has not been a very recent South
Carolina poll. We were looking today. It`s been, like, three weeks.
We`re little flying blind.

GOLDBERG: So, you know, on the one hand, the worst thing that they can do
is completely panic, bringing someone in like Mark Penn, start wildly
attacking Bernie Sanders.

I think it would alienate a lot of people who like both are – who like
both of them, who are inclined to support her out of kind of pragmatism but
don`t like the side, the triangulating side of the Clintons. You know,
she`s at her worse when she sort of doing this kind of demagogic pivot that
she`s done throughout her career, when she feels like she`s being boxed in,
you know, when she feels like she`s under attack she does insincere

You know, you could see it on anything from her, co-sponsoring the flag-
burning amendment back when she was in the Senate, to voting for the war in
Iraq, to, you know, kind of saying 9/11 during the debates when she – to
justify her Wall Street ties. You know, she`s not good at it and it
infuriates people.

What I really wish she could do, I don`t know if she`s an agile enough
politician to pull it off, is take a page from Trump and kind of level with
people or appear to level with people and say, I know this corrupt system
inside and out, you know –

HAYES: Right. Yes, this system`s corrupt and no one knows it better than
I because I had to operate it.

GOLDBERG: I don`t think she`s an agile enough politician to be able to
pull that off. I really wish she could in part because I think it has the
virtue of being true.

HAYES: I think that, yes, that is true. Part of the problem here, there`s
one thing is I think there`s a definite message they shouldn`t go with
which they flirted with which is, you guys are dumb for thinking, for
believing all this rhetoric. Like, I think –

GOLDBERG: Right. Right. “No, we can`t. No, we can`t” is not a good

HAYES: No, we can`t, exactly.

GOLDBERG: Even though I actually sort of think that also happens to be

HAYES: I think a lot of people think it`s true. I think it`s a bad

GOLDBERG: The thing is, she has a message about working families. She has
a message about fairness. You know. And I wish that she would make it
less about herself, although I also – to contradict myself – I also think
that, you know, young people who revile her for all sorts of reasons don`t
know the Hillary Clinton who spent the `90s being accused of being a
Marxist radical feminist, you know, and kind of don`t – there`s a reason
that those were the attacks.

She has this history of engagement with the problems of particularly
families, women and children in poverty. You know, I wish there was a way
for her to try to draw some sort of a line between that and the policies
that she`s putting forth now on things like paid leave.

HAYES: I think they have tried to do that but I think part of the problem
is resume is for some, whatever reason now, not particularly gripping.

I also think, I think the most powerful message they have is the one they
can`t articulate which is, do you think for a second that half a billion
dollars in negative advertising will not annihilate Bernie Sanders in a
general election? Like, and that`s a strong argument and Bernie Sanders
who –

GOLDBERG: Someone else has to make it.

HAYES: Someone else has to make it. Not the argument they can make. It`s
a plausible argument.

The version of the argument they can make is no one is more tested facing
the slings and arrows than I am.

GOLDBERG: But she has made a version of that when she talked about
Citizens United. That was a good line. Do you remember what Citizens
United was about? It was about attacking me.

HAYES: Right.

GOLDBERG: The one thing, what`s so, I think, frustrating as kind of a
leftish progressive/liberal sellout as I am, on the one hand – you know, I
love Bernie Sanders and I love his politics, but because I – because the
base of the Democratic Party does love Bernie Sanders and love his
politics, there is nobody out there putting forward the kind of attacks
that are inevitable.

HAYES: And if she does that, she looks like –

GOLDBERG: If she does that, she looks like a villain.

HAYES: Right.

GOLDBERG: If David Brock does that, it gets tied to her. But as a result

HAYES: People should think about what that looks like.

GOLDBERG: He`s just not – right, and he`s not getting the kind of vetting

HAYES: Michelle Goldberg, thank you very much.

GOLDBERG: Thank you so much.

HAYES: All right. Still to come, Chris Christie suspends his campaign
after a disappointing finish in New Hampshire. Now, he`s back in New
Jersey to face the political quagmire he left behind. That`s next.


HAYES: Less than 24 hours after polls closed in New Hampshire, not one,
two Republican candidates have exited the race. Just hours after Carly
Fiorina suspended her campaign saying she has no plans to endorse, Chris
Christie officially ended his campaign for president as well following
hours of swirling rumors throughout the day.

So tonight, spare a thought for the former future of the Republican Party,
the governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie. The man who won his reelection
in a blue state handily just 2 1/2 years ago, a man who Republicans were
just five years
ago desperate to get into the presidential race.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: They urged, they pleaded, some even begged Chris
Christie to run for president of the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some are literally begging him to run.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have people begging Chris Christie to come in so
they can save the GOP.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Republicans literally begging Governor Christie to
reconsider his decision to enter the race.


HAYES: Well, tonight we are a very, very long way from 2012.

Chris Christie returns home to New Jersey today after destroying Marco
Rubio, the establishment favorite in Saturday night`s debate, leading
Rupert Murdoch to call him a, quote, “suicide bomber.” Only to finish
behind Rubio in New Hampshire in sixth place with a meager 7 percent of the
vote after spending 70 days campaigning in the state.

The poor showing and lack of delegates effectively ending his candidacy,
ensuring he`s a persona non grata in the establishment circle for years go

He returns home after being humiliated on the national political stage to
an equally hostile environment in New Jersey. He is loathed by a
significant portion of his constituents and his approval ratings in New
Jersey are at all-time lows, hovering at 31 percent in mid-January.

He will be greeted by a Democratic opposition in the legislature that is
prime to destroy him and emboldened by his sagging political capital in a
state where he spent less than half of his time over the past year.

So, with more than two years left in his term as governor, one wonders if
Chris Christie ever really wanted to be president or if he was just looking
for a ticket out of the Garden State.


HAYES: After the first two contests were held in states where nearly nine
in ten residents are white, the presidential campaign now moves to Nevada
and South
Carolina, which have much higher populations of people of color and more
closely resemble the makeup of the Democratic Party nationally.

The thinking here goes that Hillary Clinton should be able to count on
those demographics to stop Sanders` momentum.

Recent polling indicates that Clinton continues to lead Sanders nationally
among nonwhite voters by a significant margin, almost 40 percent among
black voters
and more than 20 percent among Latino voters.

The numbers show an even greater disparity for black voters in state of
South Carolina. The Clinton campaign is doing everything they can to keep
those margins, and picked up a big endorsement today, the congressional
black caucus formally announced they will endorse Clinton tomorrow.

The group will then disperse its African-American lawmakers to states where
black voters are crucial, states like South Carolina where the Clinton
campaign is running an ad featuring the country`s first black attorney


ERIC HOLDER, FRM. U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: When Republicans weren`t going
after President Obama, they were coming after me, his attorney general. In
the cabinet I served with Hillary Clinton, and I`ve known her for almost 25
years. If you want to make sure Republicans don`t take us backward, help
Hillary move us forward.


HAYES: Now, the ultimate test of the Sanders campaign, in fact a make-or-
break test is whether they can maintain momentum and begin to chip away at
Clinton`s support among people of color.

Last month Sanders began running ads on black radio stations in South
Carolina and touring historically black colleges. And as the Boston Globe
recently pointed out, the Sanders campaign is paying more than 100 African-
American organizers $15 an hour to go door to door.

A South Carolina state lawmaker told “The Globe” that what Sanders is doing
here has forced the Clinton campaign to step up their game and understand
they cannot take the votes of this state for granted.

Today, legal scholar Michelle Alexander argued in “The Nation” that Hillary
Clinton doesn`t deserve the support of black voters, largely because the
policies Bill Clinton enacted and Hillary Clinton supported decimated black
America, particularly mass incarceration.

Today after his huge win in New Hampshire, Sanders met with the Reverend Al
Sharpton in Harlem.


AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: You had a great victory last night.

SANDERS: We did.

SHARPTON: And you are now moving into Nevada and South Carolina. How do
you intend, because clearly New Hampshire and Iowa are mostly white states,
if not
nearly white. How do you intend now to deal with a diverse populous in
both South Carolina and Nevada?

SSANDERS: Well, I think we have the agenda in Nevada and I think we have
the agenda in South Carolina that once the word gets out who I am, what we
stand for, we`re going to just fine.


HAYES: Joining me is the Reverend Al Sharpton, host of MSNBC Politics
Nation and the head of the National Action Network.

All right, rev, you met with – you had breakfast with Bernie Sanders and
you had just met with Hillary Clinton as well, right?

SHARPTON: Well, Hillary Clinton and I talked. She`s meeting on next

HAYES: Okay.

SANDERS: With the leaders of four of the major civil rights groups and
I`ll be part of that meeting.

HAYES: What was the breakfast like today with Sanders?

SHARPTON: We talked about issues that affect African-Americans and Latino-
Americans. The fact is that now that we`ve come out of New Hampshire and
Iowa, which are basically white states, and dealing with a more diverse
kind of electorate, we`ve got to address issues just like every
constituency group in
this country.

We have particular problems that we need to know specific policy positions

HAYES: One thing that struck me as just even before getting to South
Carolina, even with the campaigns taking place in largely white states that
very underrepresented of the Democratic coalition, there has been pretty
progressive policy markers laid down by both candidates on specifically
criminal justice reform, voting rights, things like that. Is that your
sense, too?

SHARPTON: I have a sense that certainly Sanders has brought up mass
incarceration and other issues and Mrs. Clinton went to Flint last Sunday.

I think, though, what the devil is going to be in the details. How do we
implement? What kind of attorney generals are you going to look for? What
are you going to look to do in terms of when you talk about income
inequality. What about the race factor in there? Because the middle class
is not monolithic. Blacks by every study still don`t have the same wages,
same accessibility to employment.

HAYES: Particularly wealth. I mean, the gap there is enormous.

SHARPTON: And the wealth gap.

So I think that the details have to be laid out, and that`s the job of
civil rights leaders to force that front and center, which I think Bernie
Sanders doing this today right after such a big win sends a signal that
he`s have the same wages, same accessibility to employment.

So, I think that the details have to be laid out, and that`s the job of
civil rights leaders to force that front and center, which I think Bernie
Sanders doing this today right after such a big win sends a signal that he
wants to engage in that serious conversation as Mrs. Clinton.

HAYES: There is something – I`m not quite sure the right way to phrase
there`s something somewhat odd or it almost feels kind of clumsy, this like
well we`re done with white states, and now let`s talk to you, black voter.

SHARPTON: And that`s what we don`t want. It`s not – it shouldn`t be
we`re done with this and now we`ll talk to this, and then you`re done with
us and talk to
somebody else…

HAYES: That`s the fear, right?

SHARPTON: That`s the fear.

So we want it all out as one, this is how I`m running. That`s how
President Barack Obama ran.

HAYES: right.

SHARPTON: And we want it all the way across the board and committed.

HAYES: Although in certain ways Obama had an advantage that these two
candidates don`t, right?

SHARPTON: Or a disadvantage according to which way you look at it.

HAYES: a disadvantage generally but an advantage I think in connecting
with black voters particularly in South Carolina. He was behind at first
but was able to really connect with them particularly after that Iowa win.

It is an interesting situation to think about the Obama coalition in the
post-Obama era with two white people running for president.

SHARPTON: but that is also part of what alarms a lot of us in the civil
rights community.

HAYES: Right.

SHARPTON: First time in American history, we are going to see a white
succeed a black president. We don`t know how America or how we`re going to

HAYES: That`s right.

SHARPTON: And what that looks like which is why we cannot let them rush
past some real problems.

South Carolina, you have the Walter Scott shooting. Videotape, shot in the
back. And then the Charleston nine, which deals with gun control.

The unemployment. The health conditions. The fact that governor won`t
sign on in terms of a lot of the health situations that affect people

Right there, South Carolina, and then you`ve got this all over the country.

You mentioned before personnel and attorney general. Today a huge day for
the Department of Justice and Loretta Lynch who as you point out, she`s
suit against Ferguson, which is a surprise to a lot of people. People
thought the Ferguson police department after that incredibly damning report
on their practices would seek a coordinated consent to create reform. They
are obstinate apparently.

Loretta Lynch is suing. What do you think?

SHARPTON: Obstinate. And it is consistent with how they behave from the

As you know, I was there from day one when the family called me in
Ferguson, and these people have been inflexable and that is why it`s
important the next president of the United States be firm and clear that
they will not tolerate these cities and those other states like Michigan
with Flint, that are back to a state right kind of mentality.

HAYES: It`s a perfect window into just the power of that office in terms
of civil rights just to look at what`s happening right now.

SHARPTON: If the power is used properly.

HAYES: That`s right. Reverend Al Sharpton, thank you very much.

SHARPTON: Thank you, Chris.

Still to come after his decisive win in New Hampshire, a reminder about
just what Donald Trump has thus far promised to enact if he becomes
president. Stay with us.




HAYES: 19.

Ready for Hillary. HRC On the board. HRC.

No. Chris Christie.

ANNOUNCER: Chris Christie. From the shadow of the George Washington
Bridge comes the pugnacious politician from Piskataway (ph). He loves the
Cowboys, Springsteen, and telling people to shut up.

CHRSITIE: Sit down and shut up.

ANNOUNCER: He`s stronger than the storm but is he born to run?

CHRISTIE: Shut up.

He`s New Jersey governor Chris Christie.

HAYES: I think that`s my favorite one we`ve seen so far, Chris Christie.

REID: You know what, I feel like yelling at a teacher, that`s how angry I


HAYES: Well, we have some shocking, indeed, upsetting news in the
world of the 2016 fantasy candidate draft update.

Today, we learned that one of our contestants has zero draft picks still
running for president. That contestant would be our good friend, Joy Reid.

Today`s Chris Christie news has ended Joy`s draft journey, just 377 days
after her draft show first aired.

She had quite a run with her five randomly selected picks, an all-star
lineup of George Pataki, that P-A-T-A-K-I, Jim Webb, Rick Perry, Chris
Christie and Mike Huckabee.

We reached out to Joy for comment on this matter. Here`s what she told us,
quote, “let`s dispense with this notion once and for all that I knew what I
was doing when I made my draft picks. I knew exactly nothing about what I
was doing.”

Her fantasy draft quest appears to have come to an end with 5,300 points.
Give it up for Joy Reid, folks.

Now, that still puts her ahead of Josh Barro who was also dealt a
devastating blow today with the news of Carly Fiorina dropping out. He`s
in back of the pack.

But still in this with Ted Cruz at 4,300 points. Sam Seder with Jeb Bush
and Hillary Clinton has 5,300 point. Michael Steele, fresh off a Bernie
Sanders New Hampshire victory has 7,800 points but our lead with the Donald
Trump whammy pick is Jess McIntosh with 7,900 points.

Of course, with just 272 days to go until election day, that`s right, 272,
it`s still anyone`s game including Joy Reid`s because tomorrow former
democratic senator Jim Webb and one of Joy Reid`s draft picks will announce
whether he will launch an independent bid for the White House.

Now the question becomes can Jim Webb save Joy Reid?


HAYES: Last night, Donald Trump won New Hampshire and along with that win
came a raft of commentary about its significance.

But as crazy as last night was, we have seen something like this happen
before, exactly 20 years ago.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Having rolled a live hand grenade into the living
room of the Republican Party, rebel Pat Buchanan today taunted the party

Sleepless in Seattle, they could call this establishment in Washington of
both parties Clueless in Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Buchanan predicted that party leaders in a panic
would rally around Dole to try to stop him.

BOB DOLE, FRM. U.S. SENATOR: This now is a race between the mainstream and
the extreme. It`s a race between hope and fear. It`s about freedom and
it`s about intolerance.


HAYES: And Pat Buchanan, who came in a close second in Iowa then won
New Hampshire, beating the main establishment candidate, Senator Bob Dole.
Buchan was, of course, Trump before Trump, channeling populist, nativist
sentiments about immigration and trade. Buchanan was beaten and
definitively beaten back in South Carolina, but he was running against a
Republican Party establishment that was orders and magnitude stronger than
the current one, an establishment that back then
apparently had much more trust from its base.

Fast forward 20 years, Donald Trump is going to South Carolina as the clear
favorite. The obvious favorite in the SEC primaries that soon follow.
This man, the possible nominee of the Republican Party, has done the
following: explicitly called for the murder of families of terrorists, one
assumes that would be women and children, explicitly calling for barring of
Muslims who are not U.S. citizens from entering the U.S. until the country
can, quote, figure out what is going on. That`s a proposal with which two-
thirds of New Hampshire Republicans agree according to exit polling.

A man whose adversarial stance towards protesters has led him to joke about
them being roughed up at his events and who have experienced violence at
several of his events.

And one day before the primary a man who called his opponent, Ted Cruz, an
expletive because Cruz was insufficiently full-throated in his support of
waterboarding which is torture.

Now, underneath the undeniably entertaining spectacle of the Donald Trump
show is something that for a lot of Americans watching is very, very dark,
an argument for why people should be scared of Trump. Just ahead.


HAYES: And joining me now, Linda Sarsour, executive director of the Arab
Association of New York, co-founder of the first Muslim online organizing
platform, Empower Change; and my good friend Ezra Klein, founder and
editor-in-chief of, starts a new podcast this week The Ezra Klein

Linda, let me start with you. As a proud Muslim-American woman, a woman
who wears a hijab, who works in the space of sort of MuslimAamerican
political power, your reaction to last night?

wasn`t shocked but it reaffirmed for me that Donald Trump is not a joke and
there was over 100,000 fellow Americans that walked out of their homes and
voted for an
anti-immigrant, Islamophobic, sexist, misogynistic fascist and that really
scares me that he has the actual platform and he can potentially be the
next president of the United States of America.

HAYES: Ezra, you wrote this piece that I thought was excellent about why
you think Trump is scary, and there`s this great line says “Trump`s other
gift, the one that gets less attention, but perhaps is more important is
complete lack of shame. It`s easy to underestimate how important shame is
in American politics, but shame is our most powerful restraint on
politicians who would find success through demagoguery.”

What do you mean by that?

EZRA KLEIN, FOUNDER, VOX.COM: I think there are two things that set Trump
apart. And I think the Buchanan example is interesting here, because it
shows a way in which they`re different. Trump inspires a lot of
comparisons to Buchanan, because there`s a way in which their ideologies
map on to each other very well. There`s a sort of economic nationalist,
anti-immigrant, anti-establishment vibe to both of them.

But something about Trump is that he`s unbounded by the normal ways that we
constrain politicians and so one piece of that is shame as I mentioned in
the piece. Trump has this reality television star`s ability to not be
here to make friends. He does not care what you think of him. He does not
care what party elders think of him. He does not feel, as most politicians
really do feel, a sort of shame and upset when the media says he`s lying or
when policy experts say that his policies don`t make any sense.

He enjoys backlash and he is fine with it.

But the other thing, and I think this is also important, is he is not
connected to any of the institutions of his own party.

HAYES: That`s right.

KLEIN: He doesn`t care about the Chamber of Commerce, he doesn`t care
about Paul Ryan. And this kind of mixture, the sort of human feeling of
shame and the sort of social network within political parties that allow us
to put a lot of social conventions on politicians who might otherwise go
off in directions that are really dangerous.

Part of why Trump has done so well is he just doesn`t care so he can say
things that other politicians cannot. But by the same token, if he was
actually elected he could do scary things that other politicians could not.

HAYES: You know, one of the – a trivial example of the shamelessness.
The other night I saw him talking about the debate. And he told the people
there that he was the one that interjected when Rubio was repeating the
line. Literally millions of people saw Chris Christie do that. Like, we
all saw that. That was just the most obviously falsifyable lie imaginable
and he was just saying it, I don`t know, knowing it was a lie, thinking it
was true. That`s an example of the sort of, like, the boundaries.

Do you have – two things I want to ask you, Linda. One, there`s an
argument this is just shtick and he`ll completely change if he wins the
general election. Does that make you feel any better?

SARSOUR: It absolutely doesn`t. I mean, the fact that – I`m talking
about – I`m not talking about Donald Trump, I`m talking about those
100,000 people that went and voted for him in New Hampshire, thousands that
came to his rallies, and, you know, root him on when he talks about banning
Muslim immigration, and talks about killing women and children, the family
members of whatever, ISIS.

I mean, people are rooting him on. I mean, he`s talking about building a
wall to keep out immigrants or even immigrants who want to leave our
country right now.

So, what scares me about him is the fact that he can have executive power.
He`s going to be the most powerful man in this country. And he`s not being
held accountable. He has no shame in what he`s saying. He knows that
banning Muslim immigration is unconstitutional. He knows he really can`t
implement that. But he does not care what you think.

And I think he keeps saying I want to make America great again and what he
means, it`s code language. And I think it`s cold language for white
supremacists that says we want to take our country back to being less
diverse, being less
tolerant, being less (inaudible), that`s what he`s saying.

HAYES: When you said white supremacist, just, he has occasionally
explicitly white supremacists. He just retweeted the Twitter using white
genocide, someone he retweeted before. He has retweeted White Genocide

And Ezra, this strikes me as a perfect example of the sort of thing you`re
talking about. One of the conventions of American politics in the year
2016 is you don`t consort in any way avowed white supremacists. It doesn`t
mean that there`s no operational white supremacy in American life or racism
is extinguished, but it`s a convention, it`s a convention that most
politicians adhere to.

KLEIN: for good reason.

HAYES: For a good reason. And here`s a perfect example of that being

KLEIN: It is hard to know what to say about the front-runner for the
Republican nomination for president retweeting a Twitter user called White

We are in a space with Trump that I think is a bit dangerous because I
think we`ve become slowly acculturated to him.

HAYES: That`s right.

KLEIN: Trump is a rally television star. And I mean that in a very real
way. He was literally a reality television star. He had a show, it was on
NBC. It was a big deal. He was very good at it. It went for many
seasons. And he has a reality television star`s ability to operate without
shame, not be here to make friends, but also to be entertaining.

And I think that`s something that is really important in the media`s
understanding of Trump is that there`s a way in which Trump as an
entertainer and Trump as a driver – and I run a news site, Trump is a
driver of traffic, of clicks. He has been good for business.

It allows us in a way to sort of laugh at him and it allows us to get used
to what we`re seeing as a kind of television show but it isn`t, it is not
entertainment, it is actual politics and he could win.

HAYES: Linda Sarsour and Ezra Klein, thank you both tonight.

That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now.
Good evening, Rachel.



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