All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 05/05/15

David Roberts, Shelly Palmer, Jon Ralston, Jess McIntosh, Rick Wilson


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN –

for all, fix our immigration system.

HAYES: Hillary Clinton drops a policy bomb on the campaign trail – as
another Republican announces his candidacy by possibly breaking campaign
finance law.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you want to give a million,
please, do it.

HAYES: Then separating facts from propaganda as ISIS claims credit for the
Texas attack.

Plus, as the new attorney general heads to Maryland, Joy Reid reports on
the two Baltimores, the Inner Harbor versus the inner city.

And the predicament for Periscope from Mayweather/Pacquiao.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody somewhere saw something that they should
have been paying somebody for.

HAYES: How Tesla`s latest announcement could literally change the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This handy future reactor in the sky called the Sun,
OK? You don`t have to do anything. It just works. It shows up every day.

HAYES: ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Something happens happened on the campaign trail just a few hours ago that
could prove to be one of the most significant elements on the entire cycle.

And, we`ve got another entrant into the race on what was a big day for the
state of Arkansas on the campaign trail, as two politicians with deep ties
to the state made major news in very different ways. First, former
Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee declaring his second round for the White
House and former Arkansas First Lady Hillary Clinton making a major policy
announcement on a potentially decisive 2016 issue.

We begin in Huckabee`s hometown of Hope, Arkansas, where Huckabee made his
announcement and which happens to be the birthplace of none other than Bill
Clinton, who has spotlighted hope in his 1992 campaign ad.

Huckabee is hoping to be the choice of social conservatives, though unlike
in his 2008 presidential run when he won the Iowa caucuses, as well as
seven other states, Huckabee faces stiffer competition for social
conservative votes – Ted Cruz, Rick Santorum, Scott Walker and others
expecting to target the same set of Republican voters.


HUCKABEE: Witness the slaughter of over 55 million babies in the name of
choice and we are now threatening the foundation of religious liberty by
criminalizing Christianity and demanding that we abandon biblical
principles of natural marriage.


HAYES: It wasn`t all doom and gloom with the Huckabee announcement.
Here`s how the event kicked off.




HAYES: Yes, Tony Orlando was in the house, although Huckabee`s rollout was
not quite as smooth as Tony Orlando`s vocal stylings.

Huckabee told his audience his campaign would be funded by small funders
not billionaires, before adding this.


HUCKABEE: Now, rest assured, if you want to give a million, please, do it.
But I know most of you can`t.


HAYES: Though the Supreme Court has knocked down most of the limits on
campaign financing, particularly through super PACs and the head of the
Federal Election Commission says her agency is largely unable to enforce
the laws that do exist, it is still, just for the record, illegal to just
hand a candidate for $1 million and for a candidate to solicit that much
money which means, as “The Washington Post” pointed out, Huckabee kicked
off his campaign with a possible violation of campaign finance law.

That wasn`t even the biggest of Huckabee`s problems today. We`ll have more
on that in a bit.

But first, we take you to Rancho High School in Los Angeles where Hillary
Clinton joined a student roundtable this afternoon and made a very
important declaration – sticking out a clear policy position in favor of a
path to full citizenship for undocumented immigrants, and vowing to do
everything under the law to go even further on President Obama`s executive
action on immigration.

Clinton`s announcement made at a high school where 70 percent of students
are Hispanic puts her squarely in line with most Hispanic voters on an
issue that continues to cause major headaches for Republicans. Even Jeb
Bush, probably the most amenable to comprehensive immigration reform of the
likely Republican presidential candidates, prefers to talk mostly about
illegal status for undocumented immigrants and has only offered tentative
support, conditional, on any notion of a pathway to citizenship.


CLINTON: Make no mistake: today, not a single Republican candidate,
announced or potential, is clearly and consistently supporting a path to
citizenship, not one. When they talk about legal status, that is code for
second class status.


HAYES: Joining me now, Nevada political reporter Jon Ralston, host of
“Ralston Live”, and Emily List`s spokesperson Jess McIntosh.

Jon, let me start with you. I was in Rancho High School in 2008 at a
caucus, which actually descended into totally chaotic debacle back in the
early days of that campaign. They were trying to run this caucus and
didn`t have the infrastructure in place.

But two things there – Hillary Clinton won a huge share of Hispanic voters
in that caucus, but she was rhetorically taking a pretty tough line.
Remember that driver`s license moment where she said she wouldn`t favor it,
she waffled a bit on it, she talked about deporting anyone who committed a
crime, no matter how minor.

How big a step was this today for her in this campaign?

JON RALSTON, HOST, RALSTON LIVE: Well, I think it was pretty shocking,
Chris, and you laid it out pretty well. You know, her campaign signaled
this morning to the media that she would be going for a path to
citizenship. That was obvious. She had to stake out that territory.

But she sprinted way past that evolution today, Chris, as you laid out.
She didn`t just support President Obama`s executive order. She said she`ll
put out her own executive orders, anything within the law that`s necessary.
She supported family reunification. She talked about the tension. She
said essentially everything that the photo typical dreamer or Hispanic
voter on this issue would want to hear.

You know, we always complain about politicians not taking any positions,
dancing around the issues. There was none of that today. She made it
clear where she was and I think that she was baiting the Republican
candidate to come after her. Call it amnesty, say it`s a lawlessness, say
whatever you want. She`s going after that demographic.

HAYES: You know, Jon makes a great point here, first of all, that this
wasn`t wishy-washy. I mean, she has now enunciated, Jess, a bunch of – a
bunch of positions that she has to defend or essentially flip on, they`re
on the record. I remember when Mitch McConnell referred to the president`s
announcement he was going to do executive action as waving a red cape in
front of the Republican caucus, which I thought was an unintentionally
revealing metaphor.

And to Jon`s point, it seemed like that was kind of what was happening here
today at least politically as well as substantively.

JESS MCINTOSH, EMILY`S LIST SPOKESPERSON: I think there`s going to be a
huge contrast between the parties because her position is so clear. And
they`re divided, they either want to build the wall as high as they
possibly can and electrify it, or whatever incredibly disturbing imagery
they`re using to describe immigration from Mexico these days, or they`re in
the Rubio/Jeb Bush camp where they`re essentially caught in this Democrat
light position. And whenever one party is playing the other party light,
it goes really badly for them, because just take the position and Hillary
has just taken the position today.

And I think we`re going to see them run into trouble all throughout this
race because they`re not willing to go that far. And the ones who have
staked out a very clear position is a completely untenable, really
upsetting one for most Americans. Most Americans understand that the
country is built on immigration and we don`t feel – we don`t feel fear
about immigration. It`s not building a wall. That`s just not going to
work for most people.

HAYES: Jon, this also, to me, symbolizes to what Jess was saying. Where
the center of the Democratic Party is. This is – this was, I think, a
surprising announcement in that it went out past what this president has
done, but this didn`t come about, you know, ex nihilo.

I mean, this is the work of 10 years of organizing by the folks you were
mentioning, immigration rights activists, dreamers, to push, really to push
the Democratic Party on this issue.

RALSTON: It`s very true and it`s emblematic of what`s happened in Nevada
when Harry Reid several cycles ago realized what the changing demographics,
Chris, the burgeoning Hispanic population, maybe 20 percent of the
electorate in Nevada in November, 2016, and, you know, I don`t want to look
at the Hillary Clinton`s heart, whether she believes it or this is pure
political pandering or a shift from the past.

The Republicans can say that all they want, Chris, and it all may be true.
But all that cohort of Democratic voters cares about is where she is now.
And think about how few swing states there are and the ones that have
Hispanic populations that could be pivotal, such as Nevada, such as
Colorado, such as Florida.

So, whether or not she really believes this or has come to read polls
better, it doesn`t matter. This is a very, very significant move. And as
you pointed out, she can`t come off of that later on because she was very
firm in what she said.

HAYES: Jess – yes, please?

MCINTOSH: She also did a really smart thing by couching immigration policy
and her agenda for immigration in a family issue. Seventy-five percent of
the immigrants in America are women and children. And now when I say
Mexican immigrants to you, the first thing you think of is probably a guy.
You`re probably thinking of somebody who is going to come in and work a job
and take care of a family and maybe bring people over – 75 percent are
women and children.

And when she talks about this issue as a women and families issue, she is
relating directly to the people who are living that experience. That`s why
it`s so smart and that`s why it`s going to resonate for a really long time.

HAYES: Jon, Jeb Bush, who is sort of I think widely seen as the sort of,
quote/unquote, “most moderate” on immigration, that term can be very, very
hard to bend down. He put out a Cinco de Mayo announcement today in his
pretty good Spanish.

How much – I mean, It seems to me like Jeb Bush just pointed out he`s
caught, right, between understanding what the general electorate wants,
what the primary elector wants, and it seems to me he`s going to try to get
over in some ways with some ambiguity and also just his personal story,
being married to a woman who is a Mexican immigrant, speaking Spanish. And
the question is, will that stand?

RALSTON: Yes, very interesting, Chris, because one week from tomorrow, Jeb
Bush will be in Nevada. He`s just started stepping up in Nevada. Why will
he be in Nevada? He`s giving a speech to the Clark County Republican
Party`s Lincoln Day dinner.

Now, the Clark County Republican Party, that is dominated by the kind of
people who called for Reince Priebus` resignation, a lot of the Ron Paul
people, all the of the Tea Party types. It`s going to be fascinating to
see what Jeb Bush says to that group of people. This is going to be a
difficult needle for that group to thread, to talk to that Republican
primary electorate, and still preserve his viability in the general

I think that speech is going to be a very emblematic of what he has to do.
It`d be very interesting to see what he has to say.

HAYES: It`s a great point.

Jon Ralston and Jess McIntosh, thank you both.


HAYES: All right. At his presidential announcement today in Arkansas,
Mike Huckabee said something you don`t hear from a lot of Republicans.


HUCKABEE: If Congress wants to take away someone`s retirement, let them
end their own congressional pensions, not your Social Security.


HAYES: Huckabee`s economic populism, at least on benefits for the elderly,
flies in the face of the GOP`s donor class orthodoxy and the business wing
of the party isn`t taking it lying down. The Club for Growth, which
Huckabee called the Club for Greed, today unveiled an ad attacking
Huckabee`s record on taxes and spending as Arkansas governor. Club for
Growth says it will spend $100,000 to air the spot in the key early voting
states of Iowa and South Carolina.

Joining me now, Republican media consultant Rick Wilson.

Rick, it`s great to have you on.

This is – this issue is –


HAYES: – this issue is fascinating to me. I have a theory about the
Republicans and Social Security/Medicare, which is back in that budget
fight in 2011, when the president was seeking a grand bargain, my theory is
that John Boehner knew full well that his – the base of the Republican
Party didn`t want to see cuts to Social Security and didn`t want to see
cuts to Medicare because the Republican base doesn`t actually want that.
They`re disproportionately elderly, they like their current benefits, and I
feel like that is what Mike Huckabee is tapping into here.

Am I getting that wrong?

WILSON: Well, look, I think this even the Republican base voters who, you
know, were Social Security and Medicare are elements in their lives,
recognize that the system is largely unsustainable as it`s currently

But I think what Huckabee is doing is what he always does. He finds the
sort of cheap route into the populist stands. He finds devices, the
cheapest ticket he can, into the shallowest end of the populism pool. And
he`s always going to kind of thing where he`s trying to distinguish himself
and find this mythical niche in the Republican Party where this rah-rah
Arkansas style descended from the great Arkansas, you know, stunt screamer
politicians is going to work for him on a national stage.

And it just doesn`t quite connect because most of the Republican voters who
start looking at Mike Huckabee realize that this guy is not an economic
conservative or a limited government conservative, and those things are
pretty conservative in Republican primary politics.

HAYES: Yes, there`s this quadrant of – you know, I remember back in high
school, you go to like the libertarian home page and have that quadrant
ideological test, right?

WILSON: Where do you fall? Right.

HAYES: That`s right. I was a leftist at a young age.

WILSON: Of course you are.

HAYES: The point is, there`s this quadrant that you can argue is
unrepresented in American politics, which is essentially people that are
socially conservative and want, you know – opposed to gay marriage, you
know, opposed to abortion, want sort of, you know, are fine with the state
regulating personal behavior in certain ways but are economically populist.
And that seems to be the quadrant Mike Huckabee is kind of aiming for, bit
remains to be seen whether there are votes there or whether there are votes
there but the donor class is so anathema, they won`t actually let a
candidate gets those votes.

WILSON: Well, look, Mike Huckabee is going to collapse whether the donor
class wants him to collapse or not. He is not a limited government
conservative. That is the mainstream primary electorate, our folks who are
limited government conservative, fiscal conservatives. They are the rising
faction of the party right now, who see the decline of the foreign policy
hawks over the last few years. They`ve started to come back a little bit.

But that era – or that area of evangelical populism that Huckabee would
try to occupy is a narrower slice that`s it`s been in the past and even a
lot of those folks are informed by a pretty strong limited government –
you know, set of limited government believes and Huckabee is a guy – they
look back at the record. He raised taxes consistently. He talked about
cutting taxes, but the net number was over $500 million, which in Arkansas
was real money back then.

And this is a guy who doesn`t have a fundamental foundation in the thing
that most Republican voters care most about, which is fiscal restraint and
limited government.

HAYES: Yes. It`s interesting. His record in Arkansas is fascinating on
that score because he really –

WILSON: It is. It is historically interesting.

HAYES: It is historically interesting. And he did – you know, he did a
lot of things that liberals hated, he did a lot of things that liberals
really liked. He was – he increased spending in certain areas that folks
did not anticipate and it`s always striking to me how much constituency
there is for that kind of thing. You`re saying there`s not much right now
and I guess we`ll see how this plays out.

Rick Wilson, great pleasure to have you on. Thanks a lot.

WILSON: Thanks, Chris.

HAYES: All right. The claims of an ISIS connection in Texas and just what
the propaganda reveals, next.


HAYES: Last night on the show, I`m pretty sure we made cable news history.
That wasn`t the cable news history of media typing into my computer when
the segment started.

It was during a segment about free speech as I hosted the legendary artist,
designer, power couple Art Spiegelman and Francoise Mouly. At one point
during our discussion, you might have noticed what looked like a little
waft of smoke. It was, in fact, vapor.

Of course, cigarette smoking was practically a requirement in the early
days of TV, but this might have been the first vaping on live television,
certainly the first vaping on our humble program. Our show`s executive
producer was so excited about it last night, he personally captured and
posted a GIF of the event to the ALL IN WITH CHRIS Twitter feed.

If you want to see that moment in its proper context, head over to our
Facebook page, We posted the entire
fascinating interview with the legendary Mr. Spiegelman and Ms. Mouly.
Definitely worth to watch.

While you`re there, we would love it if you like our page. It`s our
favorite thing.


HAYES: The Islamic State or ISIS has claimed credit for the Texas attack
that resulted in the two attackers being shot dead. On its radio station,
ISIS said the men were, quote, “two soldiers of the caliphate”. And a
flourish of propaganda added, “We tell America that what is coming will be
even bigger and more bitter and that you will see the soldiers of the
Islamic State do terrible things.”

The two men, Elton Simpson and Nadir Soofi, opened fire with assault rifles
outside an event in Garland, Texas, Sunday, where people were invited to
displaying caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed.

A school district security officer was shot in the ankle, but a Garland
police officer returned fire killing both suspects.

Now, it`s entirely unclear whether the two attackers were, in fact,
connected to ISIS in any substantive way. But what is more telling perhaps
is how determined ISIS seems to be to claim credit for an attack in which
the assailants were so quickly and successfully taken down.

Joining me now with the latest from Garland, Texas, NBC News foreign
correspondent Ayman Mohyeldin.

Ayman, what do we know about the degree to which there`s an actual
operational link of any kind between these two men and ISIS?

certainly don`t know a lot – to be quite honest with you, Chris. The
information does not seem at least what we have to indication an
operational link between the organization and these two suspects.

According to the maternal grandmother of Nadir Soofi, she was saying that
it was unlikely her son would have carried this out without being under the
influence of someone else. While the other individual, Elton Simpson, was
a man known to the FBI, was on a terror watch list, and, in fact, was
convicted of lying to federal authorities about his intent to travel
overseas and join a terrorist organization.

Now, he was accused of doing that, but in reality, the judge ultimately
dismissed or said that the prosecution did not have enough evidence back in
2011 to substantiate the claim that he did, in fact, want to join a
terrorist organization. So, he was ultimately released on probation.

Right now, the investigation is going to focus on all kinds of pieces of
evidence, including whether or not there was any kind of operational link
with the group, including money transfers, training, perhaps associates or
affiliates within the United States that may have facilitated any of this

Now, we understand from our own reporting that the guns used in this attack
were purchased legally but again, we don`t know yet the exact linkage
between these two individuals and ISIS if there even is one – Chris.

HAYES: Ayman, this gets to something you and I have discovered before and
we`ve covered, which is the way to which ISIS is a phenomenon is it has
kind of two sides to it, right? There`s the actual – there`s the actual
army that is actually fighting, holding ground, losing ground, taking
ground, governing sometimes in horrific ways, often in horrific ways in
Iraq and Syria.

And then there`s ISIS as this global brand that various, you know,
ideologues, jihadists want to associate with around the world – whether or
not it appears they`re actually in communication with them.

MOHYELDIN: Yes. Well, there`s no doubt that ISIS has tremendous command
and control over the territory that it actually controls inside Syria and
Iraq. It definitely is the major force, if you will, on the ground and a
lot of that territory.

When it comes to operational or cells, if you will, that have been
operating perhaps in the West, to this date, there really is not strong
evidence to suggest that ISIS, as an organization, was behind any of these
attacks that we`ve seen in Western countries on an operational level –
which means that those who carries out those attacks were trained by the
organization, were provided weapons, were provided any logistical support.

What seems to be the pattern, and certainly this is in ISIS`s own words, is
that they want to inspire people in the West to carry out attacks. That is
a real threat. And that`s certainly the major cause of concern for Western
officials. These lone wolf kind of attacks that could be sitting anywhere
in the Western world and interacting and engaging with followers anywhere
in the world and feeling that they now want to be inspired by the
organization and carry out those attacks.

So, there is this propaganda value of something like what we saw in
Garland, what we saw in “Charlie Hebdo” and elsewhere, that ISIS benefits
from. It turns around and it says to its recruiters, we are bringing the
fight to these Western streets, we are capable of inspiring others to carry
out these types of attacks, and that is the real challenge for law
enforcement officials to try and prevent those individuals – from being
inspired of carrying out lone wolf attacks that could be deadly and just as

HAYES: Right, because at one level, right, the plots like the one that
happened in Garland, Texas, are – they`re less logistically sophisticated
until their scale and scope is reduced. But also, they`re harder to sniff
out because presumably you have one or two people involved in them and that
makes it more difficult for authorities to catch them.

MOHYELDIN: Yes. There`s no doubt about it. I mean, that is what, when we
speak to law enforcement officials, they constantly tell you they`re always
concerned about that one individual or those individuals that operate in
pairs, perhaps like the Boston marathon bombing who can become radicalized,
who can learn how to carry out or create deadly devices on the Internet and
carry them out in contained environments that have a much larger impact in
terms of the fear factor and in terms of the casualties.

So, that is a major challenge for law enforcement officials. They have
been successful in preventing several people, dozens of people from leaving
the United States, going to ISIS controlled territory, acquiring
battlefield skill sets, but the challenges for law enforcement is that
terrorists have to be successful one time only and not successful all the
time. That is what we are seeing with these lone wolf type of attacks.
Their impact sometimes is psychologically much greater than what they`re
capable of carrying out logistically and from a killing perspective, but
nonetheless just as disastrous.

HAYES: Ayman Mohyeldin, thank you very much.

Still ahead, two very different views of Baltimore.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you`re trying to build, build from everywhere.
Don`t just build suburban areas. Don`t just build in the hub or don`t just
build in the counties. Builds it in the city where the urban people are


HAYES: Neighborhoods of Baltimore where money is and is not being
invested, that`s ahead.


HAYES: All right, you may recall we used to do a little segment
called Click Three. And it was to showcase the three awesomest things on
the internet each day. And on May 10, 2013 the number three items was


HAYES: Dude, this, this is referring to the Ryan Gosling meme to end
all Ryan Gosling memes, far surpassing all the “Hey Girls” or any of
Gosling knockoff memes. Paul Ryan Gosling anyone? Remember that one?

This is Ryan Gosling won`t eat his cereal. These are a series of
Vines, or six second looping videos and the title just about explains it
all, doesn`t it? As Entertainment Weekly puts it, just a spoonful of
cereal slowly inching towards Gosling`s beautiful, but also sometimes
tortured face on a television screen.

Creator Ryan McHenry says the idea came to him from watching the film
Drive and eating cereal. A simple concept but the results are simply


HAYES: Yes, it was Ryan Gosling won`t eat his cereal, the meme and
the Vine that was simply put a sensation. Its creator Scottish filmmaker
Ryan McHenry. As we mentioned back then, he said the idea came to him very
naturally, quoting McHenry, “I was watching Drive and eating cereal one day
and it kind of looked like Ryan Gosling was staring at my cereal.”

Gosling had himself referred to the funny meme in interviews. And we
at All In were so found of it, I put out my own version.

But on Monday, that filmmaker Ryan McHenry died way too young from
bone cancer. He was 27-years-old, 27. And in honor of him, people began
taking to Twitter with statements like this one, quote, “we all should eat
a bowl of cereal in honor of Ryan McHenry.”

This one, “Will you, Ryan Gosling, eat a bowl of cereal in memory of
Ryan McHenry, creator of Gosling`s cereal Vines?”

Well, Ryan Gosling did just that, paid tribute by posting his very own
Vine finally eating his cereal. Gosling also tweeted, quote, “my heart
goes out to all of Ryan McHenry`s family and friends. I feel very lucky to
have been part of his life in some small way.

And so we watch this McHenry Vine of Gosling still not eating his
cereal. We can hope he will be pleased.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you like cereal?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we can keep feeding you cereal?

GOSLING: All the time.

UNIDENITIFIED FEMALE: Brilliant. Ryan Gosling, it is – do you




LORETTA LYNCH, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I thought it was important that
I come here also to hear from people who were on the ground, people who
were in this city and, frankly, people who love this city. As we all know,
Baltimore has come to symbolize a lot of the issues involving police and
community mistrust that plagues so many of our cities.


HAYES: One week into her new role as attorney general, Loretta Lynch
traveled to Baltimore today where she met with city officials, community
groups and police officers. She also sat down with the family of Freddie
Gray, the man whose death triggered unrest throughout the city. And
highlighted a community at odds with the very people last month, the
Justice Department launched a civil rights investigation into the 25-year-
old`s death in police custody and the national spotlight on Baltimore has
only highlighted what residents have known for decades, it`s a city
struggle, vast racial and economic inequalities.

MSNBC national correspondent Joy Reid explains.


tale of two stark economic realities. Since the 1980s, the city`s gleaming
Inner Harbor area has benefited from massive public investment, creating a
commercial magnet for tourists and local residents alike.

But there`s another Baltimore, the Baltimore where Freddie Gray lived
and died. That Baltimore sees the investment in the Inner Harbor and asks
how can a city that can afford that let this go on?

On the streets and in the barber shops of West Baltimore, residents
know that this neighborhood was in decline long before Freddie Gray died.

GEORGE BUTLER, BARBER: This city been condemned. Like we been have
these abandoned buildings. They didn`t just board these places up, these
places been boarded up, man.

REID: Add to that the sentiment that the investments in the Inner
Harbor take away from investments in the urban centers where one-third of
the residential buildings are abandon, and you have an anxiety that runs
deep throughout Baltimore`s African-American community.

BUTLER: If you`re trying to build, build from everywhere, don`t just
built suburban areas or don`t just build an Inner Harbor, don`t just build
the counties, build the inner-cities, like where the urban people are at.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we saw during the riots was symptoms. When
we look at the police brutality and the excessive force, there`s symptoms
of a deeper problem of investment that goes downtown but not uptown.

REID: But some community activists understand the economic importance
of the Inner Harbor and are working towards a day when the two Baltimores
become one.

the neighborhoods here. We need the residential neighborhoods that are up
here, we need the Inner Harbor neighborhood, we need it all. And we all
work together as one ecosystem as a city.

And the more we can neighborhoods like this to be able to feel like
the entire metropolitan region is theirs, it will stop being a tale of two


HAYES: That was MSNBC`s national correspondent Joy Reid reporting.
She joins me now live from Baltimore.

Joy, this is something that, when I was there last week, it was
amazing to me how often people wanted to talk about precisely this, not
even with me asking about the investments in the Inner Harbor, about the
rejuvenation in certain areas and not in others. What do folks say about

REID: Well, I know, absolutely. This is something we heard every day
as well, just as you did, Chris. I heard it as well. And people
essentially looking
at the Inner Harbor, and think that`s where all the treasure in this
community goes. It goes to the county, it goes downtown, it goes to the
harbor, but, you know, one of the challenges, Seema Iyer, who is the other
Seema Iyer, because you know we have a Seema Iyer as well. And she talked
about really the difficult issue of even trying to rebuild a place like
West Baltimore.

First, you`d have to figure out who the owners of those abandon
buildings are, finding the chain of custody of that property would be the
first step in even attempting to rebuild that area, whereas obviously the
Inner Harbor is owned by the city, owned by the county.

So you have issues of just who owns the property.

You then have this issue of who would invest in the property? How do
you do it in a way that doesn`t completely gentrify the neighborhood and
price out the people who are there.

And then you have the issue that the West Baltimore and East Baltimore
sectors are residential. There isn`t any sort of native industry there.
These are purely residential areas with some retail, things like the CVS.
And so you have to figure out a different kind of development.

So it`s kind of apples and oranges, but people here definitely look at
that harbor and they look at all those glittering brand new stores and they
say what about us?

HAYES: Yeah, there`s – here is just a few maps. This is children
living below the poverty line in 2009 and 2013, so you just get a sense.

You can see how certain precincts, those see how those dark purple
precincts are incredibly high levels of child poverty. We`re talking over
half of children living in poverty in these neighborhoods.

And, Joy, this is – the neighborhoods in – that neighborhood in
Sandtown, Winchester where Freddie Gray was, I mean, that`s as poor as a
neighborhood in America gets, basically.

REID: Yeah, no, absolutely. And you have the situations where you
have over 4 in 10 people taking more than 30 minutes to get to work every
day. And think about that. And I`m not talking about in a car, you`re
talking about people who
are essentially cut off from the lifelines of the city so that even if they
could get a job interview, how would they get there? We were there one day
when people said they had been waiting over an hour for the bus, the only
bus that would take them east to west to get them downtown.

And people were really angry. They`re standing on the bus – they`re
standing on the corner waiting for a bus.

You have a train stop there at the West Baltimore area where the CVS
is that doesn`t go all over the city. It will only take you so far.

So you have fundamental issues of just being able to move people where
the jobs are. You have a high percentage of people in that community who
are coming back from incarceration so they can`t get even an interview, let
alone a job.

The problems are so systemic, it`s hard to know where to begin.

HAYES: And let`s also say this, I mean, is not limited to Baltimore.
I mean, the model that Baltimore has pursued of urban development has been
a model a lot of places have pursued with big stadiums, downtown
rejuvenation, hope for a college educated people to come to the metro
universities and colleges and stick around after they graduate and that
there are restaurants and services and start ups that they create.

But it`s unclear that that model has done much for very poor
neighborhoods, whether it`s the Bronx where I grew up or West Baltimore.

REID: Yeah, no, absolutely. Whether it`s Brooklyn, whether it`s
Detroit, all of these communities have one thing in common, which is that
you have a cache of poor people, essentially, oftentimes people of color or
African-American who live downtown, which used to be the undesirable part
of town, right. So in the early 20th Century, you stash all the poor
people, you stash all the African-Americans near downtown.

But now that`s the most desirable area. But what do you do with the
people who are already there? And how do you redevelop an area where
there`s no obvious economic benefit to the investors, whether that is
private investors or the taxpayer?

So when you don`t have an obvious return on investment, it`s just
difficult to figure it out.

And then, again, you go into these areas where you see these rows and
rows of boarded up houses. That didn`t happen in any riot. That was
already like that. You can`t even figure out who owns it. A lot of them
are absentee landlords who are long gone. You don`t even know who owns the
building. So, the city would have to seize it through eminent domain which
is its own set of problems.

So, there are just a lot of issues here the city has got to grapple

HAYES: John Angelos (ph) in our interview the other day also made the
point, people need jobs. I mean, fundamentally, if you don`t have jobs for
people, you`re going to have a lot of poor folks.

Joy Reid, live in Baltimore tonight. Great reporting, as always,
thank you.

Still ahead, a look at the technology that allowed thousands of people
– I may or may not have been one of them – to watch the highly
anticipated and highly expensive Pacquiao-Mayweather fight for free.


HAYES: All right, topping your super creepy tech news for the week is
the story of a rare talking doll invented by Thomas Edison and released in

Now, the dolls speak by way of a weigh wax cylinder – oh, wow, it
looks creepy, too – a wax cylinder recording which was operated with a
crank on the doll`s back.

They also happened to represent the earliest known recordings anywhere
of women`s voices made in the U.S. Very few of these dolls still exist and
until recently, they were silent because there wasn`t a safe reliable way
to play the
recordings without damaging the cylinders.

Enter technology. The government lab developed a method of playing
the recordings without touching the very fragile records by using
microscopes to create incredibly detailed images of the grooves and image
to sound software to digitize the recordings.

And the result, nightmare fuel. Check it out.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now I lay me down to sleep. I play the lord my
soul to keep. If I should die before I wake, I pray the lord my soul to
take. Amen.


HAYES: Now to be fair to the doll`s contemporaries, this window into
early sound recording is not just creepy in retrospect. Edison`s talking
doll was not the Tickle Me Elmo of its day.

The New York Times reports production only lasted six weeks, because
children found the dolls, I`m quoting here, “more scary than cuddly.”



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not going to stop the wheel. I`m going to
break the wheel.


HAYES: When the new season of Game of Thrones premiered to much
fanfare a couple of weeks ago, it wasn`t all celebration for HBO. Because
users of a live streaming app Periscope, which is owned by Twitter, were
apparently using it to broadcast the show illegally, prompting HBO to
criticize the app in public and
issue takedown notices for the pirated streams.

It turns out that was just the first volley in a much larger battle
over piracy and mobile technology.

During Saturday`s much hyped boxing match between Floyd Mayweather and
Manny Pacquiao, aired jointly by HBO and Showtime, thousands of people
tuned into the grainy low quality streams on Periscope instead of shelling
out $100 to watch the fight on Pay Per View. The streaming app may have
also come in handy for all the people whose cable service went down during
the match.

It was so popular that after the fight was over, Twitter CEO Dick
Costello tweeted, and the winner is? Periscope.

Well, the fight`s organizers and broadcasters were somewhat less
pleased with the apps performance. One of the promoters is threatening
legal action against individuals and companies that played a role in
pirating the broadcast.

Periscope, now on the defensive, is maintaining it fully respects
intellectual property rights. According to a Twitter spokeswoman, the
company received 66 takedown requests from copyright holders and 30 of the
streams were disabled, the others had stopped streaming or were no longer

That may not be enough to satisfy entertainment companies like HBO
which favors a more preemptive, less wackamole approach to copyright
infringers, something Periscope CEO speaking at a tech conference today
said he would be open to.


KAYVON KEYKPOUR, PERISCOPE CEO: There are a lot of tools that should
exist and can exist with a lot of time and development to handle this stuff
in realtime and we`re generally interested in working with partners on
figuring that out. It`s like – it`s new territory, right? Like, the
proliferation of all these mobile devices and the fact that I can just take
my phone right now and stream changes the landscape of how a process like
that has been done in the past.


HAYES: And while Periscope and apps like it are changing the
landscape of media consumption – and lord don`t we know it – one company
is attempting to change the entire way we power our cars, our homes and our
businesses around the globe. Why a simple new device could mean that we
are finally, finally on the precipice of a long promised revolution.
That`s next.



ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA: This solution is in two parts. Part one, the
sun. We have – we have this handy fusion reactor in the sky called the
sun, OK? You don`t have to do anything, it just works. It shows up every
day and produces ridiculous amounts of power.


MUSK: Tesla`s CEO Elon Musk might be the most ambitious businessman
of our age. I think he almost certainly is. He`s already pioneered the
zero emission electric car Tesla motors. Now he`s tackling solar power
taking on the biggest
obstacle to making solar a larger source of the energy supply in this
country: the fact that, well, the sun is not always out. When it`s
nighttime or it`s cloudy out, solar panels aren`t collecting too much

But Musk has a new solution for consumers –the Tesla powerwall, a
battery for your home that stores up the electricity generated from solar
panels quite literally saving it for a rainy day.

It can only store up to 10 kilowatt hours, which is probably not
enough to power an entire home. According to Tesla, your refrigerator
alone eats up about half that much over the course of a day, but appears to
be an enormous step toward making solar a viable alternative on a grand
scale to fossil fuels.

And it`s not just pipe dream. The powerwall, already set to ship this
summer and the 10 kilowatt hour model goes for the relatively affordable
price of $3,500 plus the cost of installation and connection to solar

Musk also unveiled a commercial version of the battery called the
power pack which in his words is designed to be infinitely scalable.


MUSK: With 160 million power packs, you can transition the United
States with 900 million, you can transition the world. You can basically
make all electricity generation in the world renewable and primarily solar.


HAYES: Joining me now, David Roberts, staff writer for and
tech consultant business adviser Shelly Palmer.

David, let me start with you. You just wrote this piece about solar
being essentially inevitable. How big was – how big a problem is the
battery problem? How far did Musk get with this announcement?

DAVID ROBERTS, VOX.COM: Well, I think mostly what he did with the
announcement is open people`s minds to the possibility. I mean, currently,
batteries are still too big and bulky and hold too little power to make
solar dominant, more than sort of an add-on to other forms of power.

But, you know, as technology continues to develop, solar cells are
going to get smaller and more efficient and batteries, also, and other
forms of energy storage are going to get smaller and smaller and efficient
and eventually, it won`t be some big thing stuck on your wall, it will be
integrated into your home and the solar cells, too, will be integrated into
your home and your home itself,
buildings themselves will become harvesters of energy and storers of energ,
unobtrusively and cheaply.

HAYES: Shelly, part of the challenge here is the problem of sort of a
consumer adoption, right? And what we`ve seen right now is solar is going
through this tremendous revolution because the price has just dropped in
this way that we – totally unprecedented, right?

But there`s this kind of viral effect. There`s actually studies out
that say
people that see, have neighbors with solar panels are more likely to get
solar panels.

SHELLY PALMER, TECH CONSULTANT: i think this is about a mission and a
vision, right? if you are part of this idea that you want to live a
sustainable life, but tesla car is a lifestyle and the power wall is a
lifestyle choice. it is too expensive, but you know what`s interesting?
it`s right on the cusp of being
financially sensible. It`s not there, it`s right on the cusp.

But today, as I love to say, is the slowest rate of technological
change you will ever experience for the rest of your life. And so it`s
going to get there, but right this minute, truly, there`s this whole total
continuous output where you literally can`t get enough electricity out of
this thing to run your house.

Forget about that. You will be able to do it. And you`re right, it
is slightly viral, but it`s a lifestyle choice.

HAYES: Yeah. So David, here is the thing that you – the argument
you made in the piece is hammer home why solar is so distinct from
everything else. Why it`s not like any other kind of power.


Every other form of commercial electricity generation works basically
the same way, it translates mechanical force into electrical current by
spinning a turbine. So everything else – coal, natural gas, nuclear,
wind, hydro, they all are about spinning turbines.

Solar PV is the only commercial form of electricity that creates
electricity directly from sunlight, that means without moving parts, which
reduces the upkeep and operational costs. And it`s the only form of power
that can eventually be scaled down to virtually any size.

I mean, Musk emphasized that it can be scaled up, but it can be scaled
down theoretically to a square inch. So you can imagine solar becoming
ubiquitous in a way that no other form of power could be.

PALMER: What`s really important here is not can you power an American
household or use this in lieu of a backup generator, if you think about the
distributed nature of solar power worldwide in developing and emerging
nations where there are no power grids, this takes on an entire new sort of
possible – set of possibilities where you`ve got – look, there are cheap
batteries and there
are cheaper batteries, this is the cheapest battery that does what it does
we`ve seen in a while. And my suspicious is once the giga factory is put
up into full capacity where that`s what they`re doing all day long at
Tesla, they`re making batteries, this is going to become affordable to the
point where it makes sense.

HAYES: And the giga factor which is set to become to Nevada, there was
a big deal announcement, they`re going to make these things to make
batteries. And David, I had someone tell me that they actually thought
Tesla was really Tesla, the Tesla company, really is a battery factory.
It`s a battery company and a battery factory. The thing that they
understood that people are going to need in the future are batteries, and
they made – they had to fix the engineering the battery problem to make
their car, but the car in some ways is ancillary. It`s actually the
battery that is the business.

ROBERTS: That`s right. I mean, I think the best way to look at
electric cars, in some sense, is as portable forms of electricity storage.
So, you can imagine a future where all these electric cars are hooked up to
the grid, so grid
operators, when they need extra power can draw power from all these
distributing cars. And when they don`t need power can return power to
those batteries so it becomes a distributed form of storage.

HAYES: Yeah.

And you wonder, also, how much – how much the sort of effect of
someone setting targets the way Musk has impacts competitors, right?

PALMER: It`s going to be really important because you`ve got a
battery industry – look, we have a very fast technological advancement
curve. The two slowest things, literally, have been battery technology –
look at your cell phones, look at your power everywhere.

HAYES: It`s the biggest fight, everyone is trying to shrink, shrink,

PALMER: You run around an airport, charge, charge, charge, everybody
is trying to charge their phone. And, of course, solar cells, also,
because if you had 100 percent absorbed material, it would be invisible and
it would be the greatest solar cell ever, but we`re not there yet.

So, these have to come along. This is a great step forward. I love
the fact that it`s Elon Musk. He`s the Tony Stark of our age.

HAYES: Yeah, he`s – I love his method of presenting. It`s just sort
of like nerdly uncomfortable.

David Roberts and Shelly Palmer, thank you both.

All right, that is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show
starts now.


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