All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 04/16/15

Charlie Pierce, Terry O`Neill, Steve Cohen, Jason Bailey, Abraham Riesman


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN –

ROBERT BATES: I shot him. I`m sorry.

HAYES: New controversy over the pay-to-play deputy sheriff arrested
for shooting a suspect and why the Tulsa shooting is actually a story about
campaign finance.

Then, the effort to make the Bible the state book in the same state
that brought us the Scopes Monkey Trial.

Hillary Clinton for Millennials episode four, name-gate.

understood the depth of feeling that many people had about it.

HAYES: The 911 call from a man trapped in the belly of an airplane.

911: You`re where?

CALLER: I`m inside a plane. I feel like it`s moving in the air.

HAYES: And it was the day that Chewbacca broke the Internet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chewy, we`re here.

HAYES: Why the world is going nuts over the new “Star Wars” trailer.

ALL IN starts now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

An intensified spotlight tonight in the case of the Tulsa County
volunteer reserve deputy who shot and killed an unarmed suspect in a sting
operation and the exact circumstances under which the Tulsa County
sheriff`s office allowed the volunteer cop to participate in an undercover
gun and drug sting operation, armed with a taser and a personal gun.
Robert Bates, 73-year-old insurance broker, who volunteered for the Tulsa
County sheriff`s office as a reserved deputy, has been charged with second
degree manslaughter and released on bond. Mr. Bates has said he mistook
his gun for his taser and therefore shot 44-year-old Eric Harris by
accident on April 2nd.

In a statement to the police after the shooting obtained by NBC News,
Bates details that narrative that he meant to tase Mr. Harris, not shoot
him. And that, quote, “during my service with Tulsa County Sheriff`s
Office Violent Crimes Narcotics Task Force, I have been involved in similar
assignments as I was on April 2nd, on at least 100 other occasions,” which,
again, raises the question of why a 73-year-old volunteer deputy was
allowed to participate with the Tulsa County sheriff`s office at this

Meanwhile, there has been a significant level of reporting about Mr.
Bates` generosity to the Tulsa County sheriff`s office.

According to the “Tulsa World”, Bates became a reserve deputy in 2008
and records show he donated three automobiles the following year. 2008,
2009 Dodge Chargers and a Crown Victoria. In 2010, Bates donated 2007 Ford
F-150 and a 2010 Tahoe. He also donated a handheld radio to be used in the
drug unit for surveillance, according to the state. And in 2011, he
donated a 1997 Toyota Avalon for uses in undercover by the drug force car.
Undersheriff Tom Ablin said Bates is the only reserve deputy to donate to
the sheriff`s office to that extent.

And according to “The New York Times,” quote, “The video of the
shooting was taken by another deputy, Google Glass, which Mr. Bates had
donated to the force.”

With me now, Charlie Pierce, writer at large at “Esquire” magazine and
staff writer at

You know, Charlie, I think everybody is scratching their head at how
could it be the case that this man, this gentleman is in this position to
be not just as a reserve deputy to come on – they know is possibly going
to be a dangerous operation. It`s a sting of a gun purchase, after all.
Sheriff Stanley Glanz said he made an error. How many errors are made in
an operating room every week?

What do you think of that?

CHARLIE PIERCE, ESQUIRE: Well, I don`t think that that if I walk in
an operating room and I buy a guy a scalpel, they are going to let me use
it. I mean, they are going to let me conduct brain surgery. This to me is
the single most revelatory parable of don`t tax for anything
ever/privatization gospel that has descended on all forms of government
from to the local.

We are supposed to pay taxes to finance the weaponry for our police.
We`re supposed to pay taxes so we don`t need to hand weapons to guys who
should be handed a gold watch and sent to the dog track with their name
pinned to their sweater.

HAYES: This is not a high school football team that needs equipment
and a new scoreboard in a Tulsa – on a side of Tulsa where you are trying
to raise money from boosters who might call in favors. I mean, this is the
essential thing that a state does, which is enforce its laws.

If you think you need the kind of equipment, you`re talking about,
they should be paid for by taxes by the government.

PIERCE: Absolutely. I mean, I`m terrified.

I mean, do the crossing guards in stall have RPG launchers? It will
clear the street but I don`t think it`s very effective public policy.

HAYES: We also – we also have a sense, I think as we watch it, and
this is another story here. Which is we are now watching the campaign
unfold. We talked last night about what billionaires are behind what
candidates. And we don`t know why this particular reserve deputy was
allowed to come on this.

Although we do know this, the undercover unit planned to execute a
search warrant in Harris` residents Bob generally carries a pepper ball gun
that is against the man-eating dogs that is in the houses. He got thrust
into this thing really with no intention of being thrust it into it. This
is the undersheriff talking about it.

Albin said other reserves don`t work the drug force task. Bob is in a
position with his company to be able to come and do that.

And the question you have to ask that, is he in that position because
he is a 73-year-old real estate broker or is he in that position because he
is curried favor through his generosity?

PIERCE: I`m cynical enough to believe the second is true, Chris. I
mean, it`s monumentally moronic as public policy to do this. Actually, my
wife made a very good point the other night. She said this is the law
enforcement equivalent of those elderly drivers who hit the gas instead of
the brake and wind up, you know, t-boning at McDonald`s.

HAYES: And you`ve got to ask this as we watch the campaign unfold,
when the sugar magnate who has given $100 million to a Republican candidate
or a Haim Saban, who may give tens of millions to Hillary Clinton, or the
gentleman who is backing Senator Cruz got $6 billion outstanding bill,
contention with the IRS. When they call the White House on the first day,
right, what favors are going to be exchanged for them, when you take this
to the macro level?

PIERCE: I mean, you`re absolutely right. I mean, what will Sheldon
Adelson come calling for with his gambling empire in the Far East and his
kind of loony views on foreign policy? I mean, you have to ask, at this
time since the Supreme Court and all its wisdom has legalized influence
peddling, you always have to ask – you always have to say this is the guy
giving the money, what is he going to want. What is his first phone call?

Because I guarantee it won`t be the public interest.

HAYES: That`s right. And you covered local politics in Boston and
Massachusetts and I covered it in Illinois and Chicago, two places that
have their fair share of graft and corruption.

This isn`t a thought experiment. We know about this case because the
gentleman ended up dead in the most horrific instances imaginable, through
what does seem genuinely an accident as far as we can tell. But it also
you makes you wonder, you know, how many building regulations, tax codes,
zoning variations of this kind could be being manipulated in municipalities
and cities and states across the country, and you`ve seen them up close
before – for the favorite person who manages to write a check to your

PIERCE: Absolutely. And the remarkable thing to me in the aftermath
is that nobody in Tulsa, except for the people on the street, seem to find
this all that remarkable. The sheriff – the sheriff apparently sees it as
business as usual. This is the way we do business with good old Bob, the
elderly gunslinger. This is nuts.

HAYES: And you`re right. As far as we can tell so far, you would
think that the reserve deputy program will be shut down or under
investigation, or the sheriff would have to answer for this. But you`re
right, to go back to your first point here, that idea that vital state
services, that if they need equipment a donor coming to fill the gap is so
normalized this is what`s going to happen.

PIERCE: Nobody sees anything remarkable about a 73-year-old guy with
a gun going on an undercover drug and gun sting. And that, to me, is a
step beyond the usual in American politics.

HAYES: Charlie Pierce, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir.

PIERCE: Thanks, Chris.

HAYES: OK, all this week, we have been presenting our Hillary Clinton
for millennial series, as we explore the many fake scandals the former
first lady has put up with throughout the years. Tonight`s episode,
Hillary name-gate is ahead.

Plus, all we could talk about today is the trailer for the new “Star
Wars” movie. So, we put it in the show. You are welcome and stay tuned
for that, coming up.


HAYES: All right, so this happened today during a Senate Finance
Committee hearing on U.S. terror policy.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to be well on that issue as well –

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: Oh, come on. Just let it go, mister.
Sorry about that. I know my time is up. I apologize.


HAYES: Two things. That was the most I`ve ever loved Senator Pat
Roberts. And that – hold on a second. I appear to be getting a call.

Did I mention we spent a lot of time in the office talking about the
new “Star Wars” trailer? We`re going the talk about it ahead. First, I`m
going to turn off my phone.

We`ll be right back.


HAYES: Today, Hillary Clinton wrapped up the first leg of her newly
minted campaign in Iowa, leaving to prepare for her next stop, New
Hampshire, early week. And as the three-day trip to Iowa comes to a close,
we know a little bit more about Clinton`s positions on a number of issues,
everything from her support of free community college, to drivers licenses
for undocumented immigrants, an issue that caulked her up the last time she
was running for president.

Last night, she also tweeted out a carefully worded statement of
support for striking low wage workers saying, quote, “Every American
deserves a fair shot at success. Fast food and childcare workers shouldn`t
have to march in streets for wages.”

Now, finally calibrating her public persona and position is nothing
new for Clinton, she has been doing it and forced to do it for over 35
years, all the way back to her time in Arkansas, which brings us to the
latest installment of our new series, “Hillary Clinton for Millennials.”

Tonight we bring you, name-gate.


INTERVIEWER: What about the comparisons to Lady Macbeth. You don`t
walk around the White House saying, out, damned spot?

CLINTON: No, only when I`m trying to wash something.

HAYES (voice-over): In the early `90s, America didn`t know what to
think about Hillary Rodham Clinton.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First lady doesn`t really describe the position
that Hillary Rodham Clinton holds in the White House. First mate may be
more accurate. Or in shipboard terminology, executive officer.

HAYES: One of the issues America obsessed over for a period of time,
Hillary`s name.

Tonight`s episode, “name-gate.”

During the Clintons` Arkansas days, the woman known as Hillary Rodham
changed her name to Hillary Rodham Clinton to appeal to a more traditional
type of voter.

CLINTON: I never understood the depth of feeling. So, in order to
avoid any problem and just to put it to rest, I will forever be known as
Hillary Rodham Clinton and expect that is the name I`ll use.

HAYES: Once on the main stage, Hillary feminism remained the issue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel she is the power behind the throne.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she`s a very aggressive woman. She`s
overly ambitious.

HAYES: On the heels of stand by your man-gate and cookie-gate, the
Clinton campaign opted to give Hillary`s image a makeover. The idea: more
Clinton, less Rodham.

REPORTER: During the campaign, Mrs. Clinton underwent a cosmetic
makeover and dropped her maiden name in public.

REPORTER: These days, she is playing a very different role.

CLINTON: We have a special something for whoever wins this bingo
game. Are you ready, Tipper?


CLINTON: B-13. B-13.

HAYES: Hillary was a bona fide cultural lightning rod which created
an opening for attacks on family values.

REPORTER: Hillary Clinton is the Republicans` chief target on family

the family to slavery.

HAYES: And while the Republicans lost that election, some of the
attacks stuck. Once in the White House, people took note of another
rebranding, Rodham was back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, she is back to the trademark headband and the
name change has thrown the White House announcers off stride.

ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States,
Bill Clinton, and the vice – the first lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

HAYES: The Rodham was throwing Americans off. The press secretary
was fielding questions about her name from the national news outlets and
turned into a punch line.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Marisa Tomei just asked me to announce that since
she has now won the Oscar, she would like to be known as Marisa Rodham

HAYES: The Rodham fixation even found its public polling.

TOM BROKAW: Hillary Clinton, by the way, gets high marks in our
latest poll – 57 percent have positive feelings about her, 16 percent,

HAYES: Another question on that poll, should the first lady did known
as Hillary Clinton or Hillary Rodham Clinton? Twenty-eight percent
surveyed said her name did not matter, while 62 percent said it should just
be Hillary Clinton.

And so, began life in the national spotlight for Hillary Rodham
Clinton or the woman we know as Hillary.


HAYES: Joining me now is Terry O`Neill, president of the National
Organization for Women. She volunteered for Clinton`s 2008 presidential

Terry, it`s really something to go back and look at that footage,
particularly just starting at the earliest part back in Arkansas, the first
interview where she says, OK, look, I guess if you don`t like Rodham, I
will call myself Hillary Rodham Clinton, if that will make you happy.

battles. You pick your battles. I was just recently at the Feminist
Majority Young Feminist Leadership Conference. Charniele Herring who is an
elected official in Virginia, a young African woman talking to these
millennial women.

What she said was, you`re going to be attacked. You will go in the
public sphere, you will be attacked. Be ready for it. Call it out when
severe and shake it off.

And I think you have seen throughout her career that Hillary Rodham
Clinton has had to pick her battles and I think she`s done exactly that.

HAYES: The picking the battle thing is so on the money thing because
now we basely know her as Hillary Clinton. The Rodham has more or less
disappeared, which again, it`s – I mean, the point is, it`s her
prerogative to decide what she is called. What is amazing about that story
to me is basically the most closely held part of your identity, which is
your name, to have that be a subject of controversy or people have opinions
about it or feel that it`s too aggressive or overly independent or
politicized, like this is – that`s a small snapshot of what life in the
public eye has been for Hillary Clinton for 40 years.

O`NEILL: You know that`s right, Chris, and I think that is going to
continue. She is a trailblazer in exactly that way. She has been the one
– and let`s be clear. In the `90s, I think for many women it was an
issue. And nowadays, we accept that people are allowed to decide what
their name is.

That actually was not generally accepted in the 1990s. But when the
first lady of the United States is saying, you know, I`m making choices
here, she opens the way for a lot of women.

This is exactly what is going to happen. You know, we`re going to be
– now that she is a candidate for the presidency of the United States, I
think you are going to see a lot of more bogus sort of pearl clutching
attacks on her. And – but I think that actually women generally are very
much prepared for those kind of attacks to be bogus and we are prepared to
pivot right to those issues. I think most women voters in this country
really want to know about issues.

HAYES: Although I can`t be overly sanguine on this, but one of the
things that struck me when we`re going through the footage, is I have a
little bit of the same reaction when we watch an episode of “Mad Men,”
which is we have made progress here. It does seem like some of the things
that were so contentious or polarizing or ridiculously inflated as issues
then are not that bad now, or have gotten much better. Do you think I`m
being overly sanguine about that?

O`NEILL: No, Chris, I don`t think you are. I think they have gotten
much better. I think one of the reasons they have gotten better is they
are stupid back in the 1990s. It`s seriously – we care if she can make
cookies? We care what she decides her name is?

And I – but I think that`s the point. A lot of the attacks on
Hillary Clinton going forward are going to 10, 20 years from now going to
be viewed as silly and stupid. It`s a huge anxiety, I think, that the
country has with something that`s different.

Let`s look at the way our first African-American president has been
treated. In many ways, he`s been treated very badly, and I think that is
an expression of huge anxiety about this change in our politics. Hillary
Clinton is proposing to bring another sea change to our politics and that
is going to raise the level of anxiety, so a lot of attacks are going to be

HAYES: There is something at the core of it, too, just the human
element of running for office or public life, which is that people are
going to come to you – and it`s true of men and women and candidates of
different races in varying degrees – and they are going to try to take
away things you feel are essential to yourself because they don`t bode
well, or because people are making a huge deal out of them. And like you
said, about picking your battles, I mean, that is part of public life for
everyone who gets into it.

O`NEILL: Yes, that`s what you have to do. That`s exactly right. And
like I said, I think she really has shown a lot of women how to pick
battles and how to thrive beyond the battles, how not to be torn down by
it. As Charniele Herring said to these young women, call it out when it`s
unfair and shake it off and move on.

HAYES: Yes. Terry O`Neill, thank you for being here.

O`NEILL: Thank you.

HAYES: 911 call made this week from the cargo hold of an Alaska
Airlines flight that was on its way to L.A., ahead.



EMPLOYEE: Hello, I`m trapped in this plane and I called my job but
I`m in the plane.

OPERATOR: You`re where?

EMPLOYEE: I`m inside a plane and I feel like it`s moving in the air.
Flight 448, can you tell somebody to stop it?



HAYES: All right, ready for nightmare fuel? On Monday, an operator
of a Seattle 911 center got a call from a man who was trapped in the cargo
hold of an Alaska Airlines plane.



EMPLOYEE: Hello, I`m trapped in this plane and I called my job but
I`m in the plane.

OPERATOR: You`re where?

EMPLOYEE: I`m inside a plane and I feel like it`s moving in the air.
Flight 448, can you tell somebody to stop it?

OPERATOR: Where are you in a plane at?

EMPLOYEE: I`m inside a plane. Alaska Airline plane Flight 448.

OPERATOR: Are you at the airport?

EMPLOYEE: I`m not in the airport. I feel like it moved. I feel like

OPERATOR: Are you by yourself or are you with somebody?



HAYES: That caller was a contract worker handling bags at the SeaTac
Airport. He`d fallen asleep inside a pressurized and climate control part
of the cargo hold and only woke up when Alaska Airlines flight 448 departed
for Los Angeles at 2:39 p.m. Passengers could hear him banging on the roof
of the hold. The pilot quickly turned the plane around, landing back in
Seattle after 14 minutes of flight.

The worker walked off the plane. He`s taken to the hospital as a
precaution. He also did a drug test, which he passed. He`s also told NBC
News this afternoon he`s back on the job, but he`s feeling, quote, a bit

Alaska Airlines is actively investigating the incident.


HAYES: The battle over religion continues to rage in America`s
state legislatures. Following the furor over so-called RFRA laws in
Indiana and Arkansas that critics charge with discrimination in the name of
religion, a different sort of fight has playing out in the state of

Now, Tennessee, like state, has a lot of official symbols. Its
official amphibian, of course you probably knew this, was the cave
salamander, its official the tree is the Tulip Poplar, its official folk
dance the square dance. And this week lawmakers came pretty close to
naming a state book as well.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A bill that would make the bible the official
book of Tennessee passed the State house. The vote came in at 55-38.


HAYES: That`s right, the Tennessee State House yesterday voted
yesterday to make the bible the state`s official book.

Now you may be saying to yourself, hey, wait a minute, this is
America, we have got the separation of church and state thing as enshrined
in the first amendment. Well, you know who else feels that way? Tennessee
Republican attorney general Herbert Slatery who pointed out that making the
bible the official state book would violate both the state and federal

The sponsor of the bible bill, Republican representative Jerry Sexton,
tried to get around that particular inconvenient truth by arguing his bill
was about highlighting the bibles role in Tennessee history instead of
pushing a particular religion.

More than half of the people in Tennessee identify as evangelical, and
politicians are not eager to be seen as anti-bible, which helps explain why
opponents of the bill, like Tennessee Senate Majority Leader Mark Norris,
argued that by naming the bible the state book alongside the official state
tree and state amphibian, Tennessee would be devaluing it.

All I know is that I hear Satan snickering, Norris said of the bill.
He loves this kind of mischief.

OK, now if that is true, Satan actually had a pretty bad day. The
Tennessee state senate killed the bible bill today by sending it back to
committee, though it could be revived next year.

Joining me now from Memphis is Democratic congressman Steve Cohen of
Tennessee. Well, congressman, first of all your reaction to the senate
essentially sending this back to committee?

STATE REP. STEVE COHEN, (D) TENNESSEE: Well, I`m pleased that the minds
that understood the separation of church and state prevailed. The state
attorney general and the majority leader Mark Norris and the speaker of the
senate. So it was sent back to committee and that`s a good thing.

It`s unfortunate that so many people did support it and didn`t
understand the foundation of our nation and the separation of church and
state that`s so important.

HAYES: You know, it struck me watching the debate and actually
watching prominent Republicans get out ahead of this and condemn it it`s
funny to watch the Republicans get out in front of
it and the attorney state general, the governor also. That this was – in
some ways part of the after effect of what happened in Indiana. We`ve got
polling out today that shows Mike Pence`s approval rating has plummeted
since the RFRA law passed in Indiana. He had to kind of try to walk part
of it

There is a fear about the spotlight that might come on a state if it
is to pass something of this nature.

COHEN: Well, it would certainly be embarrassing to Tennessee And we
had the Scopes trial (ph) about 100 years ago, and it seems that we have
not progressed that far from Dayton, Tennessee.

There was an attempt to have a RFRA type law in Tennessee, but the
local media shamed the senator Brian Kelsey (ph) into dropping the bill
before it got very far. And that was fortunate.

But Tennessee has always been a state that is very much enmeshed in
the bible. And the Republican have a split in their party, and always
have, between the establishment Republicans who understand the separation
and understand law, and the basic – the more conservative salt of the
earth Republicans. And in Tennessee, the salt of the earth Republicans
obviously have a majority in the House. And it`s been unfortunate and they
have not living by what I understand the bible to be because they haven`t
extended Medicaid to the poor people who need Medicaid in Tennessee.
There`s still about 300,000 people who have been denied while the
legislators get government insurance, they deny it to 300,000 Tennesseeans
because it`s called Obamacare and deny a billion dollars to come into our

So if you believe in the bible, you would believe I think in the new
testament the idea of love thy neighbor as thyself. And when thy neighbor
doesn`t have insurance and you do, you`re not really living the bible.

So, making it the state book is not really sufficient, it`s the good
things that are in the bible that need to be played out in terms of loving
thy neighbor as ourselves or do unto others as you have them
unto you, or those types of things we should lead with and espouse and find
as virtues.

HAYES: Were you surprised by the vote in the House that it was as
lopsided as it was for something that I think most people saw as almost
clearly, almost facially unconstitutional by state and
federal standards.

COHEN: No, I wasn`t surprised at all. I served 24 years in the
Tennessee state senate And, Chris, I was the only person years ago to vote
against the ban in the constitution on gay marriage. And the guy that
sponsored it…

HAYES: You were the only one?

COHEN: I was the only one in the Tennessee senate and house and the
guy sponsoring it in the senate was committed adultery and I brought up a
proposition to say adultery was the main threat to
marriage. And he, with a straight face, went on with saying gay marriage
was the threat to marriage.

HAYES: Wait a second. Wait a second. What was it like to cast that
vote, to cast that lone vote against that – that changed the state
constitution when you did?

COHEN: Well, it was – you know, I had never had a problem being
different and I was also the one time the only person to vote against a
resolution that went through to say that all people and businesses should
post the ten commandments in their businesses and homes, which was clearly
violative of the constitution, and there was an opinion of that accord. But
everyone else voted for it.

The politics of it is people don`t like to have anybody come against,
and especially in some of the hinterlands and say you voted against God.
And you – but these people have used god for politics and this part of the
country for many, many years, and without – and that`s debasing religion
to use God for your own political prospects and future and points.

HAYES: Yeah, it does seem like the Bible has enough going for it that
it doesn`t need to add a
state book of Tennessee necessarily to its resume. Though I`m sure any book

COHEN: And I know the Salamander is one of God`s creatures and so are
the tulip poplars, but I don`t think that the legislature should have to
choose it. I think it should stand on its own merits and its value should
be within each person`s individual conscience and beliefs, and value the
Bible and put it up at the level they want to put it up at.

And, some people wouldn`t want to put it at any level at all. But each
individual in America and
Tennessee have that right.

HAYES: Representative Steve Cohen, always talking sense. Thank you
very much.

COHEN: Good to be in with Chris.

HAYES: All right, we spent more time today than I`d really care to
admit analyzing the new trailer for the new Star Wars movie but, we think
we figured it all out. Or at least parts of it. That`s ahead.


HAYES: Florida mailman Douglas Hughes appeared in court today to face
federal charges for landing his gyrocopter on the west lawn of the U.S.
Capitol yesterday as part of an extremely ill advised stunt to highlight
campaign finance reform.

According to Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, Hughes and his
gyrocopter were about to literally fly under the radar into Washington`s
restricted airspace.

Today, the focus is turned to the security loopholes his feat may have
exposed. For some of the officials responsible for security, however,
including Secretary Johnson, the real question is what the
heck is a gyrocopter.


a gyrocopter. I had to see an image of it. Oh, yes, that is a gyrocopter.

word gyrocopter. In fact, had they used the word gyrocopter I would not
have known what that means.

didn`t see his initial reaction, it might have been, what`s a gyrocopter. I
know that was my reaction.


HAYES: Well, you can put me down in that same category. I had no idea
there was such a thing until one plopped down outside the Capitol
yesterday. But, I should have known, because gyrocopters are pretty

And, they`re apparently all over the place. James Bond flew a tricked
out version, nicknamed Little Nelly, and equipped for area battles in
1967`s You Only Live Twice.

Amelia Erhart flew one across the country from Newark to Oakland and
back, and also set a gyrocopter altitude record back in 1931,

Well, while Doug Hughes machine had a postal service logo on it –
gyrocopters were actually used for regular mail delivery in parts of the
country until the 1940s. They actually delivered mail in those things.

Yesterday wasn`t even the first time that a gyrocopter made an
appearance on Capitol Hill. Get this, Connecticut Senator Hiram Bingham,
most famous for discovering Machu Picchu back in 1911, quite a resume, was
an avid aviator who apparently liked to take gyrocopter trips around the
building when he served there in the 1930`s, long before the nation`s
capital was a no fly zone.

Unlike helicopters, the rotors of a gyrocopter aren`t under power. The
vehicle gets a forward thrust from the propeller back. That means
gyrocopters are generally a lot lighter and cheaper than helicopters and it
means you, yes, you, can spend a lot of time, as I did last night, perusing
all the gyrocopters available to buy online.

From a build it yourself kit for $18,000, to a luxury model that
converts into to a motorcycle from almost $400,000 from Hammacher
Schlemmer, of course.

So, what have we learned from the events of yesterday? First, don`t
fly your gyrocopter into restricted air space. It may freak people out. For
the people in charge of that air space, let`s maybe work on keeping it a
little more secure. And, while it was probably a bad PR day for the U.S.
Postal Service, whose logo was prominently displayed in the middle of a
federal crime scene, it was a good day for the gyrocopter.

What I really want though? One of these bad boys.

The new Star Wars trailer, next.


HAYES: All right. Today, around 2:30 in the afternoon, I felt a great
disturbance in the force. You may notice, there`s some disturbance in the
force. As if millions of Star War nerds suddenly cried out in ecstasy and
then broke the Internet. It came with the release of, and I think
specifically the final scene of the new trailer for the Star Wars movie.

And here with me to help talk about this momentous occasion, Abraham
Riesman from New York Magazine, and Jason Bailey, film editor at
Flavorwire, author of forthcoming book, Richard Pryor: American Id, which
is due out this fall.

All right, gentlemen, should we watch this thing?

Let`s watch it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The force is strong in my family.

My father has it. I have it. My sister has it.

You have that power too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chewy, we`re home.


HAYES: All right, we`re here in our mystery science theater viewing

First off, okay, okay, can we start right there. Actually, keep going.
Roll it a little further. This shot. This shot. Stop it right there. Stop

First of all, that shot alone, which appears to be some massive
imperial vessel in the background, right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The star destroyer.
HAYES: The star destroyer of course. That shot alone is awesomer than
anything in the last three movies. That single shot is awesomer than three
movies so far. And, also, what I love about this shot, and then I`ll shut
up and let you guys talk, what I love about this shot is it just suggests
so many things have happened that are important.


HAYES: Right? Like, that`s – the thing about – the last three,
aside from all the execution, is that it felt like we were slogging our way
towards this thing we knew. And all of a sudden, it`s like
curtains up on a new world were new stuff is happening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, and they are really parachuting us in, in
this trailer, to events in progress that are mysterious and exciting and
what on earth has happened now.

HAYES: And maybe, you know we got the, that looks like an –


HAYES: Yes, that`s an rebel X wing. Yes, thank you. It`s a rebel X
wing there in the foregrounds.

So like, they are still fighting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. An intractable Civil War has been raging on
for 38 years since the end of Return of the Jedi, blowing up the second
death star was only one of the events that happened –

HAYES: That`s right. And, we also don`t know what planet we`re on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do. We heard at the big unveiling of this
today. This is the desert planet, Jakku.

HAYES: Oh, Jakku?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, J-A-K-K-U. Makes sense.

HAYES: Not to be confused with Jack Hughes.

Keep rolling. Keep rolling. We all know what that is. Stop right
there. Stop right there.

So, obviously – so, now we get this clip of Luke, it appears, right?
Force is strong in our family.

A few things to note about this. One, it`s basically a line from
Return of the Jedi where he`s talking – the line in Return of the Jedi
where he reveals that he and Leia are –

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brother and sister.

HAYES: Correct. Right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And everyone went, ew. And we are like, will they
or won`t they kind of vibe?

HAYES: Sort of went out the window at that reveal. Then he says –
so, when we saw Darth Vader there, he says, my father has it, which a lot
of people are making of. Why the has.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, well it might just be that they`re
repurposing the audio from the original bit.

HAYES: It might be. Or, it might mean, I mean, we all thought that
Vader died.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, Vader is dead.

HAYES: You don`t think the present tense means something?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were just talking about how great it is that
they`re introducing new stuff. It would be such, such a failure of
imagination if J.J. Abrams brought Vader back.

HAYES: What do you think?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Ab is right. I think he`s dead, he`s
toast. It`s just – I don`t think
they`re repurposing the audio, but I think they`re reprocessing the line.
It`s the little Easter egg to the super fans. And really, that`s what these
are about.

HAYES: Stop here, this is very important. This is very important.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all very important.

HAYES: Obviously, every shot is important.

The handing of the light saber. Now, there were some debate today
about whether it`s a woman`s hand handing it to a woman. But it`s
definitely a woman receiving the light saber. On the line, my sister has
it. Is this Carrie Fisher, one question.

I have to say also, as just like, sort of a cultural moment, my
Twitter feed, literally, I`m not overstating this, a dozen women on my
Twitter feed were like, I was not prepared for the visceral reaction I had
to the handing of a light saber to a woman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, then buckle up for the rest of this trailer,
where we got plenty of lady stuff.

HAYES: Plenty of lady stuff, right.

All right, roll forward, he`s talking a little more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Find out it`s all happening –


HAYES: Okay, stop, stop, stop. We can`t – can we roll backwards? I
don`t know if we can roll backwards. Oh, look at that, we are going to roll


HAYES: In reverse. Don`t roll back, there, stop, stop, stop.

These are – we think these are protagonists?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So these are going to be the protagonists. So, on
the left there, you got Daisy Ridley, who is playing Ray, a street or a
desert sand rat – whatever, she`s a scavenger, and she`s very self
sufficient. And then you`ve got Finn, who is played by John Vouga, who is
some kind of storm trooper.

HAYES: Right. So, Finn in the first trailer, there was a moment of
him removing the helmet, and there was a big surprise.

So, keep rolling forward. We see them, they are working together on


HAYES: Stop, stop, stop. This scene is important. This is important.
Because, it appears that the empire is attacking their own – if you look
at this, it looks – this is – I can`t take credit, segment producer Todd
Coal pointed that out to me – so, I`m not going to pretend that I noticed
this. They appear to be attacking their own people, their storm troopers,
which make you think, was there an inside out plot? Was there a coup

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is like Syria. It`s just faction versus

HAYES: Thankfully, fictional.

And continue to roll. Question there, stop there. The question there I
have is, is this a guy – we don`t know this, I don`t think. Is this a guy
who was a storm trooper, or is this guy – is he an under cover operative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a spy angle.

HAYES: All of this makes me want to see the film.


HAYES: Just to be very clear, it`s almost like that`s what the
trailer is supposed to do. BB8, the rolling ball droid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Practical robot from what I understand.


HAYES: The millennium falcon is flying again. It`s getting shot at.
And then of course, this is –
I`ll stop there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone loses their minds.

HAYES: You know what that moment was like?

Have you ever had the moment, it`s a little like Proust to the
(inaudible), but, have you ever had the moment where you smell a perfume or
a shampoo that is directly associated with one part of your childhood and
the neuro effectiveness of nostalgia is overwhelming in a physical sense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. I think I read that in a book somewhere. The
book didn`t have any specific odor, so I`m not 100% sure I remember any of
it now, but I –

HAYES: I seriously had that feeling when I saw that.

It felt like I was transported.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Han was your guy growing up.

HAYES: You know, we all loved Han.

So, here`s the thing. I want to talk about the arc of the series, and
why – what happened. The masterpiece that became this other thing that is
maybe going to be a masterpiece again.

We will talk about it after the break. Stick around.


HAYES: I was so into that I completely blew through our commercial

So, back with Jason Bailey and Abraham Riesman. So, very quickly, why
were those last three Star Wars so underwhelming? Why should we hope for
better here?

JASON BAILEY, FLAVORWIRE: Basically, what you have to remember about
the prequel trilogy is that, that first film, episode one, was the first
film that George Lucas had written or directed since the original Star Wars
in 1977. That was 22 years. The Empire, Return to the Jedi, were all
written and directed by other people. Which his involvement.

But, left to his own devices, he`s actually a really kind of terrible
writer, and most of the good work he`s done was done with the help of

HAYES: So, we`ve now swapped him out.

What is your feeling about what is coming down the pike with J.J.

ABRAHAM RIESMAN, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: I `m very optimistic because J.J.
Abrams is a fan. He grew up watching and he grew up imaging new things that
built upon what George Lucas had created rather than – you know, what
George Lucas wanted to do with the prequel trilogy which was just back
explained everything that he`d been thinking about.

So now we get new frontiers because we got new people.

HAYES: And it also it – what I loved about, just from the trailer is
like, he`s got, J.J. Abrams
has a sense of scale and scope that I love. Like, it was, Star Wars is
nothing if not grandiose, operative, like massive, epic, epic, epic. And,
Jar Jar Binks didn`t feel epic. That felt epic.

No, I`m serious. That`s what I want.

RIESMAN: And, you have to point out, two of the leads, they are not
white men.

HAYES: And I`m excited about that too.

Abraham Riesman and Jason Bailey, thank you. That was fun.

RIESMAN: Thanks for having us. Hooray!

HAYES: That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts
right now.


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