| ‘Scarborough Country’ for Oct. 23 |
| Read the complete transcript to Thursday’s show |
| Guests: Mark Simone, Michael Harrison, Tom Coburn, David Corn, Terry Jeffrey, David Pitone, Cecilia Cummings JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Two weeks since Rush Limbaugh entered rehab, we’re going to have an update on his progress. Plus, why do conservative radio show hosts do so much better than their liberal counterparts? And liberal author and columnist David Corn enters SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY to try to convince me that George Bush is a liar. Plus, a teacher just wanted to punish his students for swearing and threatening him. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAVID PITONE, TEACHER: Almost like they’re in a trench, in a war zone, but with bombs going on over it. (END VIDEO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: And what’s it like to go over Niagara Falls? We’re going to hear this amazing story straight from the guy who did it. You’re about to enter SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. No passport required. No stupid stunts allowed. Hey, welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. I’m Joe Scarborough. Glad you can be here tonight. Well, we’ve heard an update on how rehab’s going for Rush Limbaugh. It’s time for tonight’s “Real Deal.” Yesterday, Rush Limbaugh’s brother David talked about how his brother was doing and how things were coming along for the very popular radio talk show host. We’re going to give you more information on what he said in the next few minutes. But one thing he did say was that Rush Limbaugh would be coming back hopefully in the next 30 days, that he wanted to get through his rehab and wanted to get back to his golden EIB microphone as quickly as possible. That could be great news. But for those of us who have had friends that have gone through rehab, we all know it’s not a 30-day process. It’s not a 30-month process. It’s a process that remains with people for the rest of their lives. So, while I’m very, very excited about the prospects of Rush Limbaugh going through rehab, getting better, and returning to his radio show, where 20 million listeners follow along every week, I’m more interested in Rush Limbaugh taking care of first things first and taking care of rehab and not coming back so quickly that he’s going to have a relapse again. Hey, Rush, we want to see you back, but take care of first things first. And that’s tonight’s “Real Deal.” Now here’s Rush Limbaugh’s brother David on Rush’s radio show. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, “THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW”) DAVID LIMBAUGH, BROTHER OF RUSH LIMBAUGH: He is committed to his treatment, as I said last week. And he is, again, very committed to his treatment, which he describes as very beneficial, which is, of course, a very positive sign. And while he misses the time off, he knows that this course of treatment is necessary. And he, in his own words, is genuinely happy that he’s having and going through the treatment. (END AUDIO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: And this is what David Limbaugh said about Rush returning to the golden EIB microphone. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, “THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW”) LIMBAUGH: He really sounded good to me. He wanted me to say that he’s looking forward in a major way to returning to the show upon completion of his treatment. He’s dedicated to his treatment. He’s dedicated to the audience. And he wants to get back in the saddle and do what he loves the most, which is conversing with his listeners. (END AUDIO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: With us tonight is a doctor who knows a lot about the drugs that Rush Limbaugh was hooked on, former congressman and author of “Breach of Trust,” Dr. Tom Coburn. Dr. Coburn, good to see you again. DR. TOM COBURN, AUTHOR, “BREACH OF TRUST”: Good to see you, Joe. SCARBOROUGH: Tell me, what exactly is Rush Limbaugh going through in rehab right now? COBURN: Well, he’s almost into week three probably, so his physiologic addiction is gone. The question then becomes the psychological addiction to the painkillers and the back pain that started this process in the first place. SCARBOROUGH: With the back pain, Tom, how hard is it going to be? How hard is this road going to be for Rush to journey down? COBURN: First of all, OxyContin shouldn’t be used for back pain. And that’s the first problem is, he should never have been given it in the first place. We really reserve OxyContin for those people with pain that they’re going to die from, end-stage disease, and not for the control of chronic pain. Narcotics don’t work on chronic pain, because what you do is, you attenuate. You get used to them. And, consequently, then, you won’t have a benefit from it. You just need more of the medicine. And so the treatment on his back ought to be No. 1 priority from a physical standpoint, and then to go through and understand what the physiologic addiction was, understand what your body is doing, and then understand the psychological addiction, and making sure that he’s into the type of rehab for his back that he needs and the treatment that he needs for his back, which is non-narcotic based. SCARBOROUGH: Tom, you were a straight-shooter in Congress, obviously. Your book “Breach of Trust” is a very blunt accounting of your time up in Washington. Be blunt on answering this question, as I know you will. Are there a lot of doctors out there who are giving their patients OxyContin and other drugs that they shouldn’t be giving them and, in effect, being responsible, partly responsible, for these addictions? COBURN: Well, I think that they are. I think there are times when you want to give somebody a pain medicine like that, if you know that they’re end stage and you know that they’re going to have a problem. And what we do is, we report that to the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs in my state of Oklahoma, saying, we’re going to addict this patient, if they have a reason to have it. And, therefore, we know what we’re doing. Too often, OxyContin is given for the wrong reasons. And it’s a very highly addictive drug, with major sides effects that can affect your lungs, your kidneys, and your liver. And it should be reserved for those end-stage patients or the acute pain stage. But if you’re really in an acute pain stage, you should be taking morphine, not OxyContin. SCARBOROUGH: All right, Dr. Tom Coburn, I want to thank you for giving us those insights. So what’s Rush going to be like after treatment? Someone who knows is former drug czar General Barry McCaffrey. General McCaffrey, when Rush Limbaugh comes out of drug rehab, is he going to be the same old Rush or is he going to be a completely different person? RET. GEN. BARRY MCCAFFREY, NBC MILITARY ANALYST: Well, he’s going to be the same guy. Let me just add to what I-I think your entry into this subject was just terrific. You don’t go into rehab for 30 days and solve the problem. He has changed the neurochemistry of his brain now. He’s going to detoxify, as Dr. Coburn says, very rapidly, seven to 10 days, a very safe process. But he’s going to be trying to achieve sobriety a day at a time for the next five years. And to do that, he’s going to have to get into a 12-step process, go to the magic of Narcotics Anonymous, Alcoholics Anonymous. He’s going to have to stay in recovery. So he has got a huge challenge. This is a big problem. It affects six million of us in the country. And there’s a good opportunity here for people that care about Mr. Limbaugh to make sure that we encourage his recovery. SCARBOROUGH: General, I’m glad you said that, because I hear a lot of conservatives talking about how they’re excited about the prospects of Rush getting through this 30-day rehab and coming back on day 31 and being the same, old Rush. That just doesn’t happen, does it? MCCAFFREY: No. SCARBOROUGH: This is a lifetime process. MCCAFFREY: Seventy-two hours after he’s out of there, he’ll be back using drugs unless he has a first-rate chronic phase treatment. I worked with CRC health care corporation. I’m on the board of directors of Phoenix House, another superb treatment facilities. So the in-patient phase is pretty well sorted out. But what we’ve got to do is relapse prevention. So, again, the challenge is to ensure-particularly with a guy with his money, with his options that he’s got, that he doesn’t come back out and think: Ah, well, this thing’s over and behind me and now I’m going to move ahead. It isn’t. SCARBOROUGH: General, I had a friend that got hooked on prescription drugs. Very bad things happened to him. The doctor that overprescribed him is now sitting in jail tonight. Do you think doctors are a little too quick to prescribe these strong medications, especially to middle- and upper-middle-class Americans who, after all, are good-paying patients? MCCAFFREY: Well, you raise a very important point. Let me correct a misapprehension. By and large, people do not get addicted and stay as compulsive drug users who are being treated for pain management. That just isn’t the case. It’s rare that it happens. They do end up with a-going into recovery, in the sense that they have a physiological addiction that they have to get rid of. But it’s rare for a guy on pain management to do this. Rush Limbaugh was taking these drugs not to handle his pain, but to get a euphoric rush. They’re grinding up the OxyContin, stripping away the time-prevention factor, so it comes out in a steady state. They’re sticking it up their nose. They’re ingesting it in ground-up form. He was not doing this for pain management. He’s chronically addicted, just like a person on crack cocaine or heroin. That’s the problem he has got to face up to. SCARBOROUGH: Now, General, again, we don’t know, though, the specifics of how Rush Limbaugh ingested these drugs, though, do we? MCCAFFREY: Well, we know that when you-without question, when you take huge quantities of these drugs, you start off-perhaps you’ve got prescribed by a doctor and you were at pain management. But, at the end of the day, most of the people who continue with compulsive drug use are using them for the euphoric effect. It gets into your neurochemistry of the brain. It releases floods of dopamine. It gives you this unbelievably powerful good feeling. I’ve had a lot of morphine, Demerol, in medical care. I’ve been in and out of hospitals for years. It’s a great feeling. The problem is, you then get tolerance and dependence. And then you’re using these drugs to basically keep pain away from you. So he shouldn’t kid himself. This is not a pain management problem. This is compulsive drug use. It’s a powerful addiction. SCARBOROUGH: Now, the Rolling Stones had a song in the 1960s called “Mother’s Little Helper.” It talked about middle-class housewives taking Valium to forget about their problems. And now, of course, in the ’90s and 2000, we have other type of drugs that a lot of people take, not just middle-class housewives. But isn’t this a problem-again, I’m not talking about the extreme crushing up and snorting-but prescription addiction, isn’t that-pain killer addiction, isn’t that a problem in middle-class America, out in the suburbs, not in inner-city ghettos, but out in the suburbs? MCCAFFREY: Well, when you look at who’s taking OxyContin or oxycodone, the general generic form of the drugs, 1.9 million of us, it’s primarily white. It would be mostly-the highest use rate is Miami, West Virginia, white males, lower socioeconomic class. Again, this is not the lawyer, the upper-class economic elite. This is a problem that affects anybody that has a neurochemical problem with chronic synthetic opiate use. So, again, Rush has got to understand that this is-this is not something that he was victimized by a doctor. He chose to go out, was consuming 30 or more pills a day, and was using them for a euphoric impact on the neurochemistry of his brain. They made him feel good at first. Now they’re going to make him feel terrible if he stops taking them. SCARBOROUGH: OK, thank you, General McCaffrey. We certainly appreciate you being with us. MCCAFFREY: Yes, good to be with you, Joe. SCARBOROUGH: And up next: Liberals think they can create their own Rush Limbaugh. Do people want to listen to liberal talk radio? We’ll talk about that next. And we’re going to square off with the author of a new book calling President Bush a liar. Wait until we read him Bill Clinton’s list of lies. And a teacher threatened in class says the school stood up for the kids, so he went to court. We’ll tell you how it turned out. And “I’ve Got Issues.” Governor-elect Schwarzenegger was keeping some strange company today. We’ve got advice for him in Joe Scarborough. And we have also got serious issues with a guy who went over Niagara Falls wearing nothing but the clothes on his back. And he lived to tell about it. No flipping. We’ll be right back when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: Coming up: Does anybody listen to liberals on the radio? We’ll find out whether liberals can capitalize on Rush’s absence and launch their own radio shows-coming up next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: Welcome back. Rush Limbaugh and conservatives own talk radio. And liberals don’t like it. Now they’re going to do something about it, because some are talking about starting their own liberal radio network. With us now to talk about it are two talk radio pros, the editor and publisher of “Talkers” magazine, the bible of talk radio, Michael Harrison; and a guy who’s been in talk radio for years, WABC’s Mark Simone. Michael Harrison, can liberal talk radio get off the ground? MICHAEL HARRISON, “TALKERS”: Liberal talk radio has been off the ground for years. There’s National Public Radio. That’s liberal. There’s Urban Talk Radio. That’s liberal. Howard Stern is liberal. He’s socially liberal. You have a fellow named Alan Colmes who’s on the radio across the country for years, Bernie Ward in San Francisco on the biggest station in San Francisco. You have many liberals on the radio. There’s a whole 24/7 network called the I.E. Radio Network that’s owned by the United Auto Workers that’s been operating for several years doing fairly well and growing. So, the whole idea that Rush Limbaugh owns talk radio and that liberal talk radio doesn’t exist that, that somehow there’s this big conservative bloc that prevents liberals from having any airtime, is a myth. It’s not true. SCARBOROUGH: Mark Simone, you’re laughing. What do you think? MARK SIMONE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Michael, I love you. And that is a great list of liberal radio that does exist, but not a lot of people are listening to it. And the proof of that is that Gore and all these people are so frantic to create a liberal network. And it’s a typical Democratic solution. They think you can just throw money at the problem. The problem is, people don’t want to listen to a liberal host. (CROSSTALK) HARRISON: I don’t know where you come up with that, that people aren’t listening to urban stations? People aren’t listening to National Public Radio? Have you seen the ratings? What Al Gore does and what a wealthy group of liberals out of Chicago that we read about constantly in the papers and see on television shows such as this are doing is not representative of liberalism in America. It’s Al Gore and it’s a business venture. But the fact is that Rush Limbaugh is the No. 1 host in America. You have Sean Hannity. You have a number of very, very good conservatives. You’re an excellent conservative talk show host. The reason there’s a big audience and there’s a big buzz on that is, these people are talented and they’ve connected with a large number of people. But it’s not as big as the buzz that’s created in the press. The buzz is far larger than the bite. And there have been, and there can be again, more liberals on the radio. It’s not that it doesn’t work. SCARBOROUGH: Mark Simone, is the buzz actually bigger than the bite here? SIMONE: No. Listen, we all know how broadcasting works. We all know broadcasting executives are businessmen. They don’t go on principle or on some guiding principles that they believe in. If liberals got bigger ratings, they’d fire all of us tomorrow and put on liberals. It’s that simple. SCARBOROUGH: But Michael’s saying that the liberals are out there. First of all, Howard Stern is one of the most popular radio talk show hosts. Would you call him a liberal? SIMONE: Hardly. You can’t get much more conservative than Howard Stern. The problem with liberals is, years ago, the conservative was the angry, screaming Archie Bunker. Today, the liberal is the angry screaming Ted Kennedy, calling everybody a liar. And when that’s your attitude, you’re better as a caller, not as a host. HARRISON: Actually, if, in fact, the liberals do get angry and if, in fact, the circumstances of our society are such that they have something to be angry about, there might be a bigger niche for political liberal talk radio. So much of it has to do with the times and whether there’s a niche, an opening, for this type of broadcasting. SCARBOROUGH: I want to expand on that, because here are some liberals who have failed before in radio, of course, former Governor of New York Mario Cuomo, Bush basher Jim Hightower, and Gloria Allred, feminist and women’s rights attorney. Michael Harrison, their shows haven’t been successful in the past. But that was before Republicans took over everything in Washington and across the country. Rush Limbaugh became the voice of dissent when Democrats took over in 1993. Do you think there’s an opening for liberals, now that Republicans have seized control of Congress and the White House? (CROSSTALK) HARRISON: There’s no question about it. There’s tremendous dissatisfaction in this country over George W. Bush that’s not being reflected in the media, and that, if somebody were to come along, reflect that and do it with the same panache and entertainment quality that Rush Limbaugh does, they could be very successful. But you have got to remember, entertainment is the main ingredient. The reason Rush Limbaugh is so successful is not because he’s a conservative. Gosh, there are a lot of conservatives out there who couldn’t get arrested on the radio with the same philosophy Rush has. It’s entertainment quality. That’s why, also, he’ll survive this drug problem and come back bigger than ever, because he’s more even interesting than ever before. It has nothing to do with him being a hypocrite or falling from some type of a pedestal. He’s not a priest. He’s not a corporate executive who ripped off old ladies. And he’s not an elected official who’s corrupt. He’s just a human. SCARBOROUGH: And, in the end, personality drives these shows. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Mark Simone, if the liberals ever do get the network off the ground, starting in their lineup, part of their lineup would be people like Al Franken and Janeane Garofalo. And they’ve both been mentioned as possible talk radio hosts. Do you think, in the world you live in, WABC, most powerful radio station for talk probably in the country, do you think they would survive on that type of radio station today? SIMONE: Absolutely not. The problem is, most of these liberals, especially the ones you’ve named, they’re great entertainers, whether they’re writers or comedians. They know how to entertain. But as soon as they start talking politics, they become angry and cynical and bitter. And all they do... SCARBOROUGH: Why is that? Hold on. That’s a very good point, because Al Franken-I’ve been laughing at Al Franken since the mid-1970s. This guy is one of the funniest writers “Saturday Night Live” has ever gotten. But when he goes into politics, unlike Limbaugh-who can be mean from time to time-but, unlike Limbaugh, it seems like he checks his humor at the door. Same thing with Janeane Garofalo. What is it about these liberals, where, when they’re entertaining, they’re hilarious, they’re gifted, but they get into politics and they just are downright mean? SIMONE: The problem is, for some reason, the Democratic Party just lost their way. They have no ideas. They’re not proposing anything. There’s no Democratic plan to fight terrorism. There’s no Democratic plan for the economy. So all you get is: “Bush is a liar; Bush is an idiot,” which, again, makes you a great caller, but it doesn’t work for a host. SCARBOROUGH: Michael Harrison, let me ask you that question. And I’ll change subjects. Let’s talk about Michael Moore. “Canadian Bacon,” for instance, a hilarious concept by Michael Moore. But he starts talking about politics and he gets very, very angry. Pure anger is not going to drive a radio show, is it? HARRISON: Absolutely not. And it has nothing to do with whether liberalism will work. It’s like saying, how come we didn’t have more Americans making hits during the British revolution? Because Americans weren’t making records as good as the British did at that time. Liberals aren’t doing radio very well. But it doesn’t mean that there’s something inherent in liberalism that makes it disqualified as a potential style of this entertainment form known as talk radio. Al Franken’s just not as good at radio as Rush Limbaugh. But you know something? No one is. No one has been and no one probably will be again. It just happens, Rush was a conservative. But that wasn’t what made him great. And great talent can’t be manufactured by bean counters. And it certainly can’t be manufactured by a political party, whether it’s Democrats or Republicans. SCARBOROUGH: Right. All right, thank you, Michael Harrison. I certainly appreciate it. Mark Simone, thank you also. Now, we’ve also got an exclusive clip of Janeane Garofalo talking about her and Al Franken’s chances in talk radio, if it ever gets off the ground. Go ahead. Run it, boys. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JANEANE GAROFALO, COMEDIAN: We are doomed if we go into this war, into the heart of the Arabian world, with a U.S.-led effort against world opinion. We are doomed if we do this. (END VIDEO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: Ignore the middle part. Just focus on the, “We’re doomed.” At last, Janeane and I do agree on something. Now it’s time for our “Flyover” in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. And it’s a look at some of the stories in flyover space between Manhattan and Hollywood, which are, of course, the parts of the country that mainstream media ignores. In Michigan, it’s now illegal for anyone under 16 to have sex, even if it’s consensual. And sex education classes are required to tell kids the legal consequences of having underage sex. And the people of Rodeo, West Virginia, tell the People For the Ethical Treatment of Animals thanks, but no thanks. They’ve turned down PETA’s offer to change their town’s name to Unity. The animal rights group said it would give them $20,000 worth of veggie burgers if they changed their name, because Rodeo shares its name with a sport that they believe abuses animals. And in Texas, a girl who’s president of her class and the honor society was suspended a week and stripped of her presidency. Her crime? Bringing a pencil sharpener to school. It’s a traditional Korean sharpener with a small 2-inch folding blade. Now, tomorrow on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, we’ll be talking more about ridiculous zero-tolerance policies that are screwing up your kids’ schools. But coming up next on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, I’m going to be talking to a teacher who says his school didn’t let him deal with unruly students and talk about what kind of message this is sending to our kids. And 20 years ago, a terrorist bombing killed over 200 Marines, what many called the beginning of the global war on terror. Now a survivor talks about that day in his own words and honors his fallen comrades. And why is one author calling President Bush the master of the politics of deception? Is that going overboard? We’ll debate it straight ahead. (NEWS BREAK) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: Welcome back. Now, George Bush campaigned for president in 2000 by appealing to Americans with lines like this... (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: To answer those moms and dads, I will also swear to uphold the honor and integrity of the office to which I have been elected, so help me God. (END VIDEO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: But my next guest says that was all a scam. David Corn writes in his book, quote, “George W. Bush is a liar. He has lied large and small. He’s lied directly and by omission. He has misstated facts knowingly or not. He has misled, he’s broken promises, been unfaithful to political vows.” And with me now is David Corn. He’s a Washington editor of “The Nation” magazine and the author of “The Lies of George W. Bush: Mastering the Politics of Deception.” Also, Terry Jeffery, editor of “Human Events.” David, let me begin with you. Are you saying-let’s just cut to the heart of the matter here. DAVID CORN, “THE LIES OF GEORGE W. BUSH”: Sure. SCARBOROUGH: Are you saying that George W. Bush is a bigger liar than his predecessor, Bill Clinton? CORN: I’m saying that’s irrelevant. I’ll say right here, you want to read me a list of Clinton lies, I’ll nod and agree. I think President Clinton lied about a lot of things, but George Bush is the president we have now, and as you just showed in that wonderful clip, he ran on the platform of restoring honesty and integrity to the Oval Office. So I’m just judging him by his own standards. SCARBOROUGH: And certainly, I agree with you on one point. That is, we don’t judge any president by his predecessors. We judge him by how he’s doing right now. Now, recently, there was a poll where the American people were asked if George Bush was trustworthy. Sixty-nine percent, yes; 25 percent said no. Those are pretty good numbers. What do you know that the majority of Americans don’t seem to know right now about George Bush? CORN: Well, I think it’s quite clear that a majority of Americans want to give him the benefit of the doubt. In these post 9/11 days, they want a commander-in-chief who they think they can trust. But I think once you start looking at the record, we can talk about weapons of mass destruction, we can talk about the tax cuts. Again and again, he has argued for them dishonestly. I’m not even saying the policies are wrong, but I’m saying right up to the war in Iraq, he said that intelligence left no doubt that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, and now we have David Kay, the chief weapons inspector, and the House Intelligence Committee run by your old friend, Porter Goss, a Republican, saying that the pre-war intelligence was full of uncertainties. That’s their words. So how could the president be telling us it left no doubt? He is misleading the public on that front. SCARBOROUGH: Terry Jeffery, let me bring you in here. First of all, let me say right off the bat, Terry, because I think you and I are going to agree, that we believe George Bush is a man of integrity. But let me tell you, I’ve read David Corn’s book. It is a very well thought out, very intelligently book. It is not an Al Franken lies and the lying liars that tell lies or whatever that piece of crap’s called. I’m just joking Al. Like I said, I’m a big fan of your SNL work. But Terry, how do you respond to so many liberals like Al Franken, like David Corn who does it intelligently, and others who are saying that George Bush has a problem telling the truth? TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, “HUMAN EVENTS”: Well, first of all, let me say, I haven’t read David’s book. I think David’s a good guy; I respect him. I’ve read some of the things he’s written about Bush. I just think he’s flat wrong. First of all, let’s say, for example, what he writes about George Bush’s tax cut. He says that George Bush has said that his tax cut would help people in the lower brackets, and he really assessed the tax cut for the rich. But if you look at the Democratic primary campaign right now, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, everywhere he goes, he’s saying that if you do what Dick Gephardt and Howard Dean want to do, which is repeal George Bush’s tax cut, that would mean a $2,000 tax increase for families making $40,000 a year. The truth is that Bush did cut taxes by $2,000 per year for families making $40,000 a year, which means they now pay virtually no federal income tax at all. CORN: Terry, you got to read my book, because the example I give is not that part of the tax cut package. The example I give, one of the best examples is that back in 2000, 2001, when Bush was pushing his tax cuts he talked about a single mom waitress making $22,000 a year with two kids and how his tax cut package would lower the toll booth on the road to the middle class for this particular woman. Deloitte and Touche-it used to be big eight, big five accounting firm-ran the numbers on this and found out that under the Bush tax cut plan, she got absolutely zero. JEFFREY: Well, wait a minute, David. CORN: So no toll booth was... (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Hold on, hold on. Guys, I don’t want to get into the minutia of tax cuts. I do want to read, Dave, though, some of Bill Clinton’s biggest hits while he was in... CORN: Well, I’ll stipulate that. Let’s talk about Bush. I know you don’t want to do that. SCARBOROUGH: Here’s my problem. You talk about Bush. Let’s talk about the biggest lie that liberals say George Bush made, which was the lead up to the war. We’re showing Bill Clinton’s biggest lies, because, you know, we just can’t help it. But let’s move on to George Bush. We all stipulate that Bill Clinton had problems telling the truth, so let’s move on to our current occupant. Here’s the thing that I don’t get. Liberals attack George W. Bush mainly on weapons of mass destruction, saying we lied about weapons of mass destruction, he lied about it being an imminent threat. In fact, George Bush never said that Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat. What he said was in the post 9/11 world, we need to take care of the threats before they come in. Isn’t that the truth? CORN: He said. He also said that it was an immediate and a direct threat. We have no time to wait. Wait or waste. We couldn’t have five more days, five more weeks, five more months of inspections. And you remember that draft resolution that he sent to the-to Congress when he wanted to get authorization to go to war? In that draft authorization, that draft legislation, he said that Iraq-there was a high risk-that’s a quote-high risk. That Saddam Hussein and Iraq could launch a surprise attack on the United States using weapons of mass destruction. Now if that doesn’t mean imminent threat, I don’t know what imminent threat means. SCARBOROUGH: Terry, listen, I’m sorry. We are way over, but I’m going to you the last 15 seconds while my producer screams in my ear. Go. JEFFREY: Joe, I would tell David to go back and look at Dick Gephardt on “Meet the Press” when Tim Russert a few weeks ago-when Tim Russert asked him if he misled the country when he said Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, and that’s why he voted for war. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: All right, gentlemen, we’re going to have to leave it there. The book is, “The Lies of George Bush.” It’s by David Corn. It is an interesting read. And coming up on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, I’ve got issues. A guy goes over Niagara Falls and lives to tell about it. We’ve got his words of wisdom for any copycats. And also, why is Arnold hanging out with Governor Gray Davis? We hope the governor-elect isn’t taking any pointers on energy policy or clean campaigning. That’s next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: Up next, a teacher feels threatened by his student, but the school says he isn’t allowed to take action. We’re going to be talking to both sides next. OK, actually, why don’t we do it right now. In Philadelphia, a teacher was kicked out-a teacher kicked some students out of his class, because they swore at him, according to him. And also, he says they threatened him. And after doing that, the principal’s office sent the offending student back, and it happened again. The teacher took the school to court, but got no help there either. With us now to talk about this is David Pitone, the threatened teacher, and also is he Cecilia Cummings, the communications director for the Philadelphia School District. David, let me begin with you. Why don’t you tell us what was it like in your classroom? DAVID PITONE, TEACHER: Behavior, Joe, cursing, threats, fights. It would just escalate, and I had to do something. SCARBOROUGH: Well, the school sent the students who threatened you back into your classroom; is that right? PITONE: Well, I did send students out after-the first day, I didn’t know what to do. The second day, I was told how to give detentions. For some students, that worked. For some students, it didn’t work. Then I asked, what can do to remove some students when I have to, even just to cool down for 10 minutes. And I was told by some teachers, “Here’s a form. Fill it out.” I filled out part one like they said. Then I filled out part two, called security. He said, “Where’s the form?” I handed it to him. He took the students. They sent them back. SCARBOROUGH: Now, you know, without getting into the specific vulgarities that were uttered at you, were you not physically threatened by one of these students? PITONE: Threats would happen. There was a couple times where I felt a little apprehensive. SCARBOROUGH: Yes. Cecilia, respond to that. The teacher says he has problems taking care of these students, that they’re swearing at him, that they’re playing loud music, that they’re not listening to him. He tries to get help from the office. The office sends the students back, explain. CECILIA CUMMINGS, DISTRICT COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes. Mr. Pitone’s version of the events are simply absurd, and his case was thrown out of court as a result. We do have problems with safety. That’s why we have implemented the toughest disciplinary code in the country. We are expelling students from school at a rate of 2,000 a year. So much so that we are building two new disciplinary facilities to meet that need. It’s unusual that we argue this case from this side. Generally, we argue the case against students and their taxpaying parents who believe that we are impinging upon their rights and their rights to due process. SCARBOROUGH: Now, in a written log, thought, that was required by the school, David alleged that one student said,, “I’ll blank you up,” and he was cursed at at other students, and they were also playing blaring music, and they wouldn’t turn that music down in class. I mean, how does a teacher teach other students that are there to learn if the office-if the principal’s office won’t take these disruptive students out of class? CUMMINGS: Well, in Mr. Pitone’s own lawsuit, he asserts that twice in the 2 ½ days he taught before he walked off the job, students were successfully evicted from his classroom. It was a matter of semantics, as a matter of fact. The designated teaching assistants who are there to come and get these students so that they are not just sent out to wander the halls and cause more disruption could only be dispatched if it was an emergency situation. If it is, then you call-you dial 6, the office picks up the phone, and police are dispatched to your classroom immediately. Mr. Pitone never did that. For non-emergency situations, I must add, there is a procedure. It’s no more complex than when you use to write a detention slip to students. You simply fill out a form: Joe Smith cursing, loud music. An NTA is dispatched to escort them. But we do ask that you wait for that non-teaching assistant so that the students aren’t... SCARBOROUGH: All right. Let me bring David back in. CUMMINGS: Sure. SCARBOROUGH: David, did you do these things? Did you overreact or were you concerned about the Philadelphia school district and the fact that-I believe there’s a 41 percent increase in reported assaults in the school district. PITONE: Joe, I’m not going to dispute the facts right now, because nobody supports the position of the school district, and nobody takes anything they say to heart, because the story keeps changing. What is undisputed is the conditions that the teachers have. And this is-I’m getting so many letters and so much support. Look at this nice presentation I got today. Beautiful letter from a girl named Jen. Let me just read this. SCARBOROUGH: Not the whole thing. Give me a couple of sentences. PITONE: “I liked you as a first-year 4th grade teacher in the Philadelphia school district. However, I didn’t have the strength or the will to go on while being faced with the negativity and threats on my safety. I resigned because of the discipline problems and lack of support of the principal and vice principal.” SCARBOROUGH: All right, David, we’re going to have to leave it there. I appreciate both of you being there. I just want to tell everybody out there, this is not a problem just in Philadelphia. It’s a problem that I hear about all over the country from teachers who tell me that they’re not given the tools they need to discipline students in their classrooms. Now, you’re going to want to stick around as SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY remembers what it was like when the deadliest terror attack was ever made on our nation 20 years ago today. But first, I’ve got issues with Arnold getting cozy with Gray Davis. Hey buddy, this is the guy who worked the dirty campaign against you. Now he’s your best friend? You might be good for politics after all. They look like buddies to me. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: Up next, a guy goes over Niagara Falls and lives to tell about it. We’re going to have his words of wisdom for any would-be copy cats. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: I’m Joe. I like pina coladas and walks in the rain. What are you laughing about? It was a big hit in its day, and I’ve got issues. First up, I’ve got issues with California’s governor-elect seen here today with current governor Gray Davis. Now, Arnold Schwarzenegger tells reporters his transition team is working closely with Davis’ office. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR-ELECT: The governor has been very gracious and has been absolutely fantastic not only with his phone call the day of the election. He offered right away to work together with us and to make it a smooth transition. And he kept his promise. (END VIDEO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: Hey Arnold, you won office by being your own man. I hope you’re only looking for Davis’ guidance on such important issues like: Where’s the bathroom? Who signs your time sheets? When do we get off work? Because If you’re taking his advice on policy issues, you’re going to be out of office faster than “Last Action Hero” was yanked from movie theaters. And there was a round of illegal immigrants today at the place where America shops. This is what a Wal-Mart spokesman said earlier today. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TOM WILLIAM, WAL-MART SPOKESMAN: We understand that at a number of our stores this morning, early morning hours, third-party cleaning crews that Wal-Mart has in place to clean stores after hours, a number of people were arrested as illegal aliens. When we hire these crews, it’s understood that everybody is a legal worker. That’s our understanding, but we’re looking into everything now. The key thing is we’re trying to help the INS, and we’re trying to understand exactly what they want of us at this point. (END VIDEO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: You know, Sears is where America used to shop, but now it’s Wal-Mart. We’re going to have a whole segment about this tomorrow night and going to have some serious issues if Wal-Mart knowingly hired a small army of illegal immigrants. And finally, did you know that more than 700,000 gallons of water goes over Niagara fall every second? Well, this man, Kirk Jones, jumped in the falls and lived to tell about it. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KIRK JONES, SURVIVED NIAGARA FALLS JUMP: Well, I’ll tell you, there’s a bubbling caldron of hell that I advise upon no human being on the face of the earth. The statistics speak for themselves. You will die if you go over those falls. And it is hell on earth, I assure you. (END VIDEO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: But you didn’t die. Eyewitnesses said Jones’ arms were up in the air, and he had a big grin on his face just before going over the falls. And after facing a big fine for the stunt, he now says it was a suicide attempt. And he has this advice for copycats. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JONES: For God’s sake, don’t do it. There are ways to seek help for your depression. And if you’re thinking of doing it for a stunt, you will for surely die. On that day, Monday, October 20, I reached out and touched the face of God, and he smiled. (END VIDEO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: I have no idea why he would at that guy. But anyway, I’m not the only person around here with big issues. I think that guy has some bigger ones. But don’t go away, SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY is going to remember the barbaric attacks on our troops in Beirut 20 years ago today. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: Hey, SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY is proud to support the families of our fallen troops in Operation Iraqi Freedom. So we’re going to be doing our show, November 10, live from an all-star event in New York City, the intrepid fallen heroes tribute to freedom. You can get the tickets for the event at ticketmaster.com. And, of course, all the money goes to the families of our fallen heroes. We hope to see you November 10 in New York. Now, the sad reality is that the casualties suffered in Operation Iraqi Freedom are far from being the first American lives lost in the Middle East, because 20 years ago today, the United States endured its worst terror attack up to that time when a truck with thousands of pounds of explosives smashed into the marines headquarters near the Beirut International Airport. The explosion killed 241 servicemen. Master Sergeant John Wayne Nash of the United States Marine Corps was there the morning that 25 of his friends were murdered. And he was only one of the two people from his unit to survive that attack. This is his story, in his own words. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MASTER SGT. JOHN NASH, U.S. MARINES (voice-over): October 23, 06:22 in the morning is when the terrorist bomber drove his truck in with 2,000 pounds of TNT into our building. That was like any other morning of the week other than the fact that Sunday morning was considered a holiday routine for us. The terrorist obviously knew that that was our day of relaxation, and that’s one of our biggest mistakes. Our guards were down. Everybody that was around me in that area besides one other marine was killed, every one of them. How many did we find of those marines? None of them. We did not find one. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: James G. Yarber, U.S. Army; Jeffrey D. Young, USMC. NASH: That was the start of the global war on terrorism. And that terrorism that echoed 20 years ago is echoing just as strong today. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready, aim, fire. NASH: I brought my mother to the Beirut memorial this morning basically because I knew that she’d be one of the only mothers that had a surviving son from the blast of 1983. A lot of times I ask God, I say, “Well, why was I not killed that morning?” And the only answer that comes to me is that-to ensure that the mothers that would never again see their sons, or the wives that will never again see their husbands, or the children that would never again be held by their father, they all gave the supreme sacrifice, and they should not be forgotten as well. (END VIDEO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: Now, tomorrow on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, we’re going to detail the inaccuracy CBS is planning to show us in Ronald Reagan’s movie. Plus, the ridiculous zero-tolerance policies in schools that get honor students expelled for carrying things like pencil sharpeners and nail clippers and asthma inhalants. We’re going to have the great story of how one top Army officer is bringing much needed joy to children of Iraq. See you tomorrow night. END Copy: Content and programming copyright 2003 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Transcription Copyright 2003 FDCH e-Media, Inc. (f/k/a/ Federal Document Clearing House Inc., eMediaMillWorks, Inc.), ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce or redistribute the material except for user’s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon MSNBC and FDCH e-Media, Inc.’s copyright or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. 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